Vfs Malpractice At Uk Visa Centre

[theoldgit]

But one does need to bear in mind that only a very small percentage of the fee actually goes to VFS; most of it is taken by the government!

Again agreed, but when VFS bid for the contract they should have included their proposals as to how they were going to ensure the integrity of the application process and protect the applicants from these vulchers, and costed accordingly. That said I have been involved in enough of these bidding processes to know that it's not the quality of the bid but the price that wins contracts like this, the UKBA have paid cheap and got cheap.

I suspect your link to the money made from the process is probably spot on and the underlying reason, though I doubt that they are activity seeking for applications to fail.

[Electra]

I think that a high percentage of applicants and their partners would be pretty worldly wise with the amount of information and warnings of these scams, but people like the chap who just said "I leave it up to her" are, sadly, probably beyond help.

Any superficial analysis of the socio-economic background of the typical British male sponsor would quickly reveal that they are in the main from the lower end of society, quite unsophisticated and as such have probably a limited education and of less than average intelligence. Many are by no means worldly wise and in their social arena are unlikely to have seen, never mind understood, the so called information and warnings of scams to which you refer. Most I have encountered have had great difficulty in grasping the nuances of immigration law and view the whole process of applying for a visa with not inconsiderable trepidation. The Regent House scandal is a bear garden in which the visa agency prey on them with no mercy and as a consequence have made a financial killing from exploiting the ignorance and naivety of applicants and sponsors alike.

The VFS process has already been scrutinised and been found wanting but to date no action to deal with the touts has been taken.

From my own personal knowledge and experience it is fairly clear as to why the Be Bangkok has been so inert on this. Quite simply, they do not care one jot. Their prevailing view of the applicants has, and probably will always remain so, been that they are all just ' slappers ' and the sponsors mere lumpen gullible dross who have all been conned.

Lest the statisticians among us seek to hurl figures in repudiation perhaps I ought to state the obvious that not withstanding such prejudice the immigration rules inevitably transcend it but believe me, if there is a chance of getting a refusal they'll take it regardless of whether or not they thought an appeal adjudicator would eventually throw it out.

[TheFiend]

Any superficial analysis of the socio-economic background of the typical British male sponsor would quickly reveal that they are in the main from the lower end of society, quite unsophisticated and as such have probably a limited education and of less than average intelligence. Many are by no means worldly wise and in their social arena are unlikely to have seen, never mind understood, the so called information and warnings of scams to which you refer. Most I have encountered have had great difficulty in grasping the nuances of immigration law and view the whole process of applying for a visa with not inconsiderable trepidation.

That is a very superficial analysis.... I don't think I am lower class, uneducated, and of less than average intelligence, or is an IQ of 149 less than average?

It's just like saying every tourist to Thailand is a sex tourist.

A lot of the Brits I have met in Thailand, both tourists and ex-pats, have decent education and good jobs.

I think many think it is easier to use an agent to handle the application, but don't do research on which agents to use and instead rely on their wife or GF to sort it out.

We did the application ourselves. I researched beforehand what we needed for the application, and then we went to VFS together to apply..... result - a successful application.

[Electra]

I rather thought I had qualified the post by quantifying the demographic as being ' in the main ', i.e mostly. Perhaps a significant proportion might have been more apposite.

A bit touchy, aren't we?

Put it another way, whilst there are pilots out there with Thai partners I'm sure there are many more who are baggage loaders.

In any event the point I was seeking to make is still valid.

[sumrit]

Any superficial analysis of the socio-economic background of the typical British male sponsor would quickly reveal that they are in the main from the lower end of society, quite unsophisticated and as such have probably a limited education and of less than average intelligence. Many are by no means worldly wise and in their social arena are unlikely to have seen, never mind understood, the so called information and warnings of scams to which you refer. Most I have encountered have had great difficulty in grasping the nuances of immigration law and view the whole process of applying for a visa with not inconsiderable trepidation.

That is a very superficial analysis.... I don't think I am lower class, uneducated, and of less than average intelligence, or is an IQ of 149 less than average?

It's just like saying every tourist to Thailand is a sex tourist.

A lot of the Brits I have met in Thailand, both tourists and ex-pats, have decent education and good jobs.

I think many think it is easier to use an agent to handle the application, but don't do research on which agents to use and instead rely on their wife or GF to sort it out.

We did the application ourselves. I researched beforehand what we needed for the application, and then we went to VFS together to apply..... result - a successful application.

You beat me by 1 Fiend so you're safe, I must be the 'thicko' he's refering to :D

[yeesipha]

I think that a high percentage of applicants and their partners would be pretty worldly wise with the amount of information and warnings of these scams, but people like the chap who just said "I leave it up to her" are, sadly, probably beyond help.

Any superficial analysis of the socio-economic background of the typical British male sponsor would quickly reveal that they are in the main from the lower end of society, quite unsophisticated and as such have probably a limited education and of less than average intelligence. Many are by no means worldly wise and in their social arena are unlikely to have seen, never mind understood, the so called information and warnings of scams to which you refer. Most I have encountered have had great difficulty in grasping the nuances of immigration law and view the whole process of applying for a visa with not inconsiderable trepidation. The Regent House scandal is a bear garden in which the visa agency prey on them with no mercy and as a consequence have made a financial killing from exploiting the ignorance and naivety of applicants and sponsors alike.

The VFS process has already been scrutinised and been found wanting but to date no action to deal with the touts has been taken.

From my own personal knowledge and experience it is fairly clear as to why the Be Bangkok has been so inert on this. Quite simply, they do not care one jot. Their prevailing view of the applicants has, and probably will always remain so, been that they are all just ' slappers ' and the sponsors mere lumpen gullible dross who have all been conned.

Lest the statisticians among us seek to hurl figures in repudiation perhaps I ought to state the obvious that not withstanding such prejudice the immigration rules inevitably transcend it but believe me, if there is a chance of getting a refusal they'll take it regardless of whether or not they thought an appeal adjudicator would eventually throw it out.

Electra

looks like you have been eating that alpha-betti spagetti again,are you really this horrible when you speak to people face to face.

[7by7]

Any superficial analysis of the socio-economic background of the typical British male sponsor would quickly reveal that they are in the main from the lower end of society, quite unsophisticated and as such have probably a limited education and of less than average intelligence........

The majority of TV members are male, and most of those who post regularly in this forum have, are or will be the sponsor of a visa application.

Are you saying that the above applies to all of them, or just the British ones?

I rather thought I had qualified the post by quantifying the demographic as being ' in the main ', i.e mostly. Perhaps a significant proportion might have been more apposite.

Oh, that's ok then! It's only a significant proportion of us!

[Bird on the Wire]

Oh, that's ok then! It's only a significant proportion of us!

If the cap fits..............

[Electra]

,are you really this horrible when you speak to people face to face.

Much worse......

But I'm still one of the good guys.

[apeks1971]

But one does need to bear in mind that only a very small percentage of the fee actually goes to VFS; most of it is taken by the government!

Again agreed, but when VFS bid for the contract they should have included their proposals as to how they were going to ensure the integrity of the application process and protect the applicants from these vulchers, and costed accordingly. That said I have been involved in enough of these bidding processes to know that it's not the quality of the bid but the price that wins contracts like this, the UKBA have paid cheap and got cheap.

I suspect your link to the money made from the process is probably spot on and the underlying reason, though I doubt that they are activity seeking for applications to fail.

7by 7 do you actually know how much money the Goverment make with visa applications??its millions of pounds,i went to UK visas office in King Charles St just down from Haymarket in London and on the wall is a chart that tells you how much they make,and the VFS are a goverment agency linked to UK visas,The oldgit,as for failed applications my mates wife got refused for she didnt know anything about his children,reason why was he aint got any but she still got refused even after being married for over 2 years to him and he has a very successful business but they then changed it to they were not happy with the financial situation ???thing is they know he will pay again like most of us would to get our wifes let alone loved ones so thats another £500 in the pocket of the goverment,7 by 7 as you know i put an official complaint on the malpractices of the VFS and as a result they were investigated but nothing ever come of it,alot of wrongs go on at Regents house but as long as people pay there money nothing will ever change all youll get from VFS is be more careful

[theoldgit]

the VFS are a goverment agency linked to UK visas

I'm sorry, that's simply not correct. VFS are a private company who are contracted by UK Visas to receive visa applications, pass them on to UK Visas and then pass the results back to the applicants.

The oldgit,as for failed applications my mates wife got refused for she didnt know anything about his children,reason why was he aint got any but she still got refused even after being married for over 2 years to him and he has a very successful business but they then changed it to they were not happy with the financial situation ???thing is they know he will pay again like most of us would to get our wifes let alone loved ones so thats another £500 in the pocket of the goverment,7 by 7 as you know i put an official complaint on the malpractices of the VFS and as a result they were investigated but nothing ever come of it,alot of wrongs go on at Regents house but as long as people pay there money nothing will ever change all youll get from VFS is be more careful

I'm sorry to hear that, I am very suprised that your friends application was refused because his wife didn't know about his non existent children, ample grounds for an appeal I would have thought, or was it refused because the ECO wasn't convinced about the financial status? I would be really suprised if they simply changed the reason for the refusal.

The visa process is supposed to be cost neutral, and I think it's right and proper that it should be so, I don't see why UK taxpayers should subsidise the cost of processing visa applications, I am a UK taxpayer as I suspect are you. Obviously collecting the fees to pay the costs is not an exact science, some posts will collect more fees, whilst some will collect less, I know Bangkok collects in fees than the actual costs involved, but I am pretty sure they do not decline applications simply to increase the revenue stream, refusals actually give them a lot of extra work, writting up refusal notices and dealing with appeals and the like.

Edited August 10, 2009 by theoldgit

[Mister Fixit]

The UKVAC website a photo of their staff in uniform.

What, all two of them? No wonder there's always a queue ...

Edited August 10, 2009 by Mister Fixit

[7by7]

7by 7 do you actually know how much money the Goverment make with visa applications??its millions of pounds

I don't know fr sure, but I would not be at all surprised if you estimate was correct. For a cost verses price comparison, see here.

,and the VFS are a goverment agency linked to UK visas,

As OG says, they are not. They are a private company who handle the paperwork side of visa applications for many countries, not just the UK. VFS Global.

as you know i put an official complaint on the malpractices of the VFS

Malpractice? Poor advice is the worst they could be accused of in your case, which we have discussed at length. As I said to you before:

I still feel that your solicitor should bear the brunt of the blame; any solicitor should know that a couple who married abroad can divorce in the UK, subject to some simple residency requirements which you obviously met.

However, you obviously feel differently, so let's leave it there?

Posted by theoldgit

The visa process is supposed to be cost neutral, and I think it's right and proper that it should be so, I don't see why UK taxpayers should subsidise the cost of processing visa applications,

Totally agree; unfortunately Gordon Brown and co don't! They feel that the whole UKBA, including ECOs at embassies, IOs at ports, clerks at PEOs, enforcement officers checking up on illegals etc. should be paid for by the fees collected from applicants. (See document linked to above.) As they can't charge EEA applicants or asylum seekers, they overcharge us!

[lennoxgilby]

I guess it would be too much to have a sign on the genuine VFS office warning about the bogus outfit next door or to have a genuine VFS staff member waiting outside to usher people into the correct building?

I think the Thais have quite strict libel and slander laws, so putting a sign up saying next door is a bogus office is asking for a huge court case. The entrance is clear to anyone by the signage and the security at the entrance. If anyone is actually fooled into thinking the other places in the building are official then they probably need the services of them to gain a visa anyway.

Although the VFS center signs are clear when you get outside the office, I've watched people being approached outside the building. When people who are approached think they are being escorted to the VFS center by an employee they tend to 'switch off' and just follow, not looking at the signage on other offices. When we went to take my wifes application we were there for about eight hours over two days and I watched as several people were approached outside Regent House then lead up the stairs past the VFS center and into the Visa World office. I didn't see one person question where they were being taken or even look at the VFS office, and nobody who I saw go in came out of Visa World quickly either.

Hi, can you please tell me EXACTLY where to go once inside this building as I've been twice already, and I must have been extremely naive because both times I was taken to an office (with staff) who appeared entirely authentic. When you enter, do you go straight ahead (past the cafe on the right), up the stairs one floor and turn RIGHT? Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. Many thanks...

[theoldgit]

When you enter Regent House look at the first floor balcony ahead of you, that's where you need to be.

Go up the stairs and turn right, if one on the cowboys hasn't tried to nab you at the entrance there will be some more lurking here. The VFS office is on the right and there will be a security guard outside, checking you in, the VFS office is clearly marked.

The cowboys are in an office just to the left of VFS, they are very convincing. Remember VFS staff are in uniform, so no uniform it's not VFS and walk out.

[sumrit]

I guess it would be too much to have a sign on the genuine VFS office warning about the bogus outfit next door or to have a genuine VFS staff member waiting outside to usher people into the correct building?

I think the Thais have quite strict libel and slander laws, so putting a sign up saying next door is a bogus office is asking for a huge court case. The entrance is clear to anyone by the signage and the security at the entrance. If anyone is actually fooled into thinking the other places in the building are official then they probably need the services of them to gain a visa anyway.

Although the VFS center signs are clear when you get outside the office, I've watched people being approached outside the building. When people who are approached think they are being escorted to the VFS center by an employee they tend to 'switch off' and just follow, not looking at the signage on other offices. When we went to take my wifes application we were there for about eight hours over two days and I watched as several people were approached outside Regent House then lead up the stairs past the VFS center and into the Visa World office. I didn't see one person question where they were being taken or even look at the VFS office, and nobody who I saw go in came out of Visa World quickly either.

Hi, can you please tell me EXACTLY where to go once inside this building as I've been twice already, and I must have been extremely naive because both times I was taken to an office (with staff) who appeared entirely authentic. When you enter, do you go straight ahead (past the cafe on the right), up the stairs one floor and turn RIGHT? Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. Many thanks...

After you go up the stairs to the waiting area and turn right you'll see a gift shop in front and towards the right, with a small lobby area to the left of it. As you go into that lobby turn to the right and the VFS Office is in front of you. There'll be a man (not usually in uniform but wearing a white shirt and black trousers) giving out numbered tickets and (usually) two female security guards checking baggage etc. before allowing people into the VFS Office itself.

As you approach the lobby all you can see to start with is a glass office door straight ahead. This is the Visa World Agency Office. It is their staff that approach you outside/downstairs but they have nothing to do with the VFS centre and should be avoided at all costs, unless you want to be parted from a lot of your cash of course

[ChrisWebber]

With regard to Visa World. I must stress that this company has no relation to the very reputable company of the same name in the UK for whom I work.

Visa World (UK) are based in Mill Hill in London and have been providing consular services for over 20 years we are also an agent of the UK Passport office.

My advise is when applying for any form of visa. If you do not wish to visit the embassy or sub contracted handling centre, find a good consular service and take up references before handing over any payments. There are a number of companies around the world with the name visa world. Some are legit and will come up with the goods. However the company in Thailand is a front for a scam and I would not recommend going to them.

Also if anybody ever contacts you outside the embassy and tells you that they can help obtain a visa. Ask for a business card and look them up as often they are legitimate couriers for a visa company and they are just advertising their company. However many are scamsters.

VFS Global are not the best people to deal with at the best of times. In the UK they control the visas for India, Russia and a few others. They are a legitimate company and so far have provided a good service.

[sumrit]

With regard to Visa World. I must stress that this company has no relation to the very reputable company of the same name in the UK for whom I work.

Visa World (UK) are based in Mill Hill in London and have been providing consular services for over 20 years we are also an agent of the UK Passport office.

I actually drove past your Office in London two weeks ago and, after spending so much time at the VFS centre over the years the name 'Visa World' almost jumped out and hit me .

It's nice to know your not part of the Thai version at Regents House .

[7by7]

Odd that, despite your office being in London and your website advertising a UK visa service, you do not appear on the OISC register and neither does your website display the OISC logo or make any reference that I can find to the OISC. Neither can I find any reference on your website to the company being a legal firm or exempt.

As it is a criminal offence for anyone to give immigration advice or services in the UK unless they are regulated by the OISC, a regulated solicitor, barrister or legal executive (or European equivalent) or exempted by Ministerial Order, would you care to expand on your company's status?

I am sure you appreciate the dangers of using an unqualified, unregulated adviser, so will have no objection to being asked this question.

[theoldgit]

Visa World (UK) are based in Mill Hill in London and have been providing consular services for over 20 years we are also an agent of the UK Passport office.

VFS Global are not the best people to deal with at the best of times. In the UK they control the visas for India, Russia and a few others. They are a legitimate company and so far have provided a good service.

Further to the point raised by 7by7, the IPS do not have any accredited agents, nor do they keep lists of agents or make recommendations.

The point you make about VFS Global who, as you say "are not the best people to deal at the best of times" but are "a legitimate company and have so far provided a good service" is obviously your opinion but for clarification they do not "control the visas" what they do is to receive applications and pass them on to the various visa authorities.

Hope you don't mind me clarifying the point.

[bobrussell]

It is interesting that this subject keeps coming back to the top of the list on the forum. It is unfortunate that the entrance for the VFS office is so small for such a large office. The Visa World entrance is not that much smaller - the office however looks very tiny. I have not gained entry to either (Visa world, because my wife is too smart to fall for their tactics and VFS because I was not allowed in!)

There have been a few rather uncomplimentary and mostly unfair posts about the types of British men accompanying their wife/girlfriend to the office.

If anything the bulk of men seem to be rather more trusting than they should (sometimes far too much!) and have little experience of the more aggressive 'scams' seen abroad. Many Thais feel intimidated dealing with the authorities of a foreign country as happens with a visa application. This is what the scammers are preying on. We are not used to telling people to 'foxtrot oscar' as someone phrased it earlier in the posts.

A lot of people are quite inexperienced at dealing with these processes and I agree that more obvious signage outside the real office or a simple VFS 'report here' notice at security would help.

Not everyone there is as savvy as most posters are on this forum! Clearer signs giving written advice in English and Thai with the correct logos are a must and it is a bit of a disgrace that these are not a priority. The cost for VFS would be minimal and the drop in complaints would, I am sure be greatly appreciated!

[sumrit]

Not everyone there is as savvy as most posters are on this forum! Clearer signs giving written advice in English and Thai with the correct logos are a must and it is a bit of a disgrace that these are not a priority. The cost for VFS would be minimal and the drop in complaints would, I am sure be greatly appreciated!

About three years ago an independent government inspector came to Bangkok to assess the whole visa system.

This was one point he picked up on and entered in his report. Both the British Embassy and the VFS centre agreed the signage was inadequate and agreed to rectify the situation..................................THEY JUST DIDN'T SAY WHEN

[annnick]

Went to the vfs today to submit gfs visa application,after reading this post I kinda knew what to expect with touts etc and not much signage but we wasn't approached by anyone offering there services,but u can see them lurking around waiting to pounce on the weak.as for the signs I see 2 signs downstairs and abt 3 upstairs directing you to the vfs office so all in all if you are observant when you get there you should have no problems finding the vfs office and not the scums office.

Just hope visa is successful was straightforward enough but don't fancy going again lol

Annnick

[RAZZELL]

Odd that, despite your office being in London and your website advertising a UK visa service, you do not appear on the OISC register and neither does your website display the OISC logo or make any reference that I can find to the OISC. Neither can I find any reference on your website to the company being a legal firm or exempt.

As it is a criminal offence for anyone to give immigration advice or services in the UK unless they are regulated by the OISC, a regulated solicitor, barrister or legal executive (or European equivalent) or exempted by Ministerial Order, would you care to expand on your company's status?

I am sure you appreciate the dangers of using an unqualified, unregulated adviser, so will have no objection to being asked this question.

http://www.visaworld.co.uk/visa_ukimmigration.html

RAZZ