Want To Get Married To Go To Uk But Need A Prenup

[josh3364]

need some advice please.

im 25 from UK.

been with my gf for 4 years. she is 23 and thai. She has been to UK twice on tourist visa for 6 months at a time. to save future hassle of keep renewing tourist visa and coming back to thailand to see her thinking about taking the plunge and geting married. i dont give her family money or anything like that and she is not one to take me shopping and demand things.

not overly keen on marriage but because of visa laws its the only way we can live in UK togther.

i have inherited 100,000gbp . put most down on flat and got some cash to play with.

so i want her to come live in my flat with me.

we are happy together and dont want to spend long periods of time apart.

im in bangkok now . delaying going to get married untill i have sorted a prenup. not that she is rushing me or anything but i want her in UK with me . but im gettin the prenup first.

i dont mind splitting anything we buy after the marriage . but im worried about my flat and savings in the case of things going pear shaped a few years down the line.

does a thailand divorce mean that UK property has to be split? even if she reckons she helped pay some of the mortgage?

plus where can i get a 100% creditable prenup in bangkok for not too much money? i know its not good to be a cheapskate when it comes to these sort of things but its also very easy to pay over the odds if your a 'farrang' in thailand.

any help much appreciated . i know its a long post and i will get a few piss takers . but thought some1 might know something about this kind of thing

[InterestedObserver]

You do not need a prenup in Thailand under the circumstances you describe. The Thai Civil and Commercial Code states that your assets, the flat and savings in the UK, acquired before marriage are yours alone and not marital property.

[petermik]

You do not need a prenup in Thailand under the circumstances you describe. The Thai Civil and Commercial Code states that your assets, the flat and savings in the UK, acquired before marriage are yours alone and not marital property.

True-but whatever you do-do not get married in UK,because she then becomes entitled to a percentage of everything.

[Thongkorn]

You do not need a prenup in Thailand under the circumstances you describe. The Thai Civil and Commercial Code states that your assets, the flat and savings in the UK, acquired before marriage are yours alone and not marital property.

True-but whatever you do-do not get married in UK,because she then becomes entitled to a percentage of everything.

Depends on where and how you marry , getting married in Thailand at the amphre is a legal marriage

, even in the UK

[SantiSuk]

You do not need a prenup in Thailand under the circumstances you describe. The Thai Civil and Commercial Code states that your assets, the flat and savings in the UK, acquired before marriage are yours alone and not marital property.

True-but whatever you do-do not get married in UK,because she then becomes entitled to a percentage of everything.

Depends on where and how you marry , getting married in Thailand at the amphre is a legal marriage

, even in the UK

Correct, but the issue is whether the Thai wife will be able to exercise any rights over assets located in the UK.

I am no lawyer, but I researched the issue pretty thoroughly myself and paid a US/Thai law firm to write me a Thai prenuptial as I have significant assets in the UK and more than tuppence in Thailand. A Thai pre-nuptial only covers me for assets located in Thailand and may or may not be taken into account if a Thai were to pursue assets in the UK. The lawyer advised that there should also be a UK prenuptial co-ordinated between 2 sets of lawyers if I really wanted to be watertight. He would say that wouldn't he, but he did add that it was practically quite difficult for a Thai to get at assets outside Thailand (he had not seen anyone do this successfully), though a determined and well-advised Thai might conceivably manage it and there was certainly nothing to stop a Thai trying to use foreign legislation.

Unfortunately I had no time to get the UK prenuptial in place, so I'm hoping he is right about the practical difficulties and the potential use of the Thai agreement as guidance for a foreign court. Of course I am hoping even more that this will be a non-issue for us!

So if you really want to protect your assets in the UK, talk to a UK lawyer, but I think it may well be difficult to find anyone with experience in such issues and if you do find one I suspect the fees will be significant.

BTW I paid 50,000 baht for my Thai prenup, but including some useful assistance in whistling thru' the amphoe registration process and making sure the prenup was registered co-terminously at the amphoe. I also elected for a 2 week cooling off period and hiring another lawyer (15,000 baht) to look after my wife's interests and advise her independently (so it would reinforce the potential portability of the agreement into any UK action). I'm not suggesting that for £100k of assets you would want to do the same - itmay be more palatable to take the small risk than pay the fees!

Of course I can't advise you legally on your own specific circumstances - it may be worth your while getting a paid-for one hour consultation with a lawyer and then deciding.

I'll sit back now and wait for the usual torrent of 'you was robbed' comments from the TV faithful

[stgrhe]

A friend of mine is English and he is very wealthy and has a Thai girl friend. His GF has for a couple of years now ask him to marry her but he claims that he would only be prepared to enter into a cermoniell marriage because under the English law a prenup would not stand up in the English court, he claims.

Whether this is correct or I really do not know, but I suggest this be verified by a solicitor who knows English law well since it differs so much from both the US laws and the laws of other European countries, the latter are mostly based on Code Napoleon, i.e. Latin law.

SantiSuk says below that he used a US/Thai law firm and they may not be fully competent to give accurate advice with regards to the English law. The Thai law is a code law based on the Latin law whereas the English law is a case law.

[chiangmaibruce]

OK, you don't specify where you are getting married. I would imagine in Thailand, correct? If the aim is to protect English assets then you need an English pre-nup (or whatever it is called there). Has your GF agreed to this by the way? Good luck there - especially after a lawyer gets in her ear (after family have done likewise). Maybe get her prepared for the idea by giving her a copy of 'thailand fever' first

Your English solicitor should recommend that you also prepare a certified Thai translation of the agreement and sign that too. One of the reasons that it might be struck out is that your wife says (later) that her English wasn't up to the standard of understanding legal terms. The solicitor will probably also recommend (as per another poster) that you get your wife independant legal advice. While this increases your initial costs, it again reduces the chance that the agreement will be struck out later.

It would probably be a good idea to register the agreement at the time you register your marriage in Thailand (no cost with this and it may be beneficial later) ... but this is something to check with a Thai lawyer.

PS: If you haven't already told her about the money you inherited then I would have a good think about that before you do ... especially if you decide the pre-nup route is going to be too expensive - or she won't agree to it

Edited August 19, 2009 by chiangmaibruce

[chiangmaibruce]

I'll sit back now and wait for the usual torrent of 'you was robbed' comments from the TV faithful

Nope, you wait and see. I reckon the 'you was robbed' mob will be elbowed to one side by the 'you shouldn't be marrying someone if you don't trust them' crew. For sure.

[josh3364]

I'll sit back now and wait for the usual torrent of 'you was robbed' comments from the TV faithful

Nope, you wait and see. I reckon the 'you was robbed' mob will be elbowed to one side by the 'you shouldn't be marrying someone if you don't trust them' crew. For sure.

hehe i do trust her but people can change especially a scorned, not that i aim to do that..

will be getting married in bkk.

have mentioned it and she thinks i dnt love her or trust her , lol . but she would sign 1.

thanks for all the comments, all the response is much appreciated. its not a mega fortune got but would be pretty stuffed if it was halved.

so do you reckon i should bother gettin a prenup if i have no assets in thailand

she would not have money or brains to pursue my uk assets, though if she has lived there for years she may get clued up. it sounds like i dont trust her. and if she was a money grabber she could find a rich older guy pretty easy .

so i might not bother with prenup if it wont be protecting anything .

[nigelandjan]

I'll sit back now and wait for the usual torrent of 'you was robbed' comments from the TV faithful

Nope, you wait and see. I reckon the 'you was robbed' mob will be elbowed to one side by the 'you shouldn't be marrying someone if you don't trust them' crew. For sure.

hehe i do trust her but people can change especially a scorned, not that i aim to do that..

will be getting married in bkk.

have mentioned it and she thinks i dnt love her or trust her , lol . but she would sign 1.

thanks for all the comments, all the response is much appreciated. its not a mega fortune got but would be pretty stuffed if it was halved.

so do you reckon i should bother gettin a prenup if i have no assets in thailand

she would not have money or brains to pursue my uk assets, though if she has lived there for years she may get clued up. it sounds like i dont trust her. and if she was a money grabber she could find a rich older guy pretty easy .

so i might not bother with prenup if it wont be protecting anything .

I have a friend who is ( was ) a wealthy bussiness man in the UK that spent a lot of money on prenup legal jargon before he married just over 3 years ago , and guess what , it didn,t make one jot of difference when he divorced recently.

I divorced 3 years ago and my ex got 60% of everything ,, divorce in the UK is expensive for the man.

I think you should try and enter into this with a more positive outlook ,, reading between the lines I think your a little unsure about the actual marriage.

Anyway good luck !

[chiangmaibruce]

so do you reckon i should bother gettin a prenup if i have no assets in thailand

she would not have money or brains to pursue my uk assets, though if she has lived there for years she may get clued up. it sounds like i dont trust her. and if she was a money grabber she could find a rich older guy pretty easy .

so i might not bother with prenup if it wont be protecting anything .

1. No, it's not worth getting a THAI pre-nup. It is potentially worth getting a UK pre-nup ... if you do the process properly. If you cut corners it's not worth doing. If you don't cut corners it will cost you (legal fees)

2. she WILL get clued up

3. she says she will sign it now but be prepared for her changing her mind later

I really hope it all becomes a big non-issue for you. Good luck

Edited August 19, 2009 by chiangmaibruce

[saintofsilence]

If you are not overly keen on marriage , this looks like a recipe for disaster, You need more than a prenup mate.

[dfp]

In a Thai prenup I declared whatever assets I had stating bank accounts etc. What is then acquired after marriage is a 50/50 in case of divorce. So assets outside Thailand cannot be touched. In case of purchase of property in Thailand, then that is in your wife's name and that could be a problem when it is a house/land.

Anyhow, good luck.

[josh3364]

thank guys.

so gettin a thai prenup is pointless as i have no thai assets ??

and a thai prenup is not valid in an english court even if it is tied in with the thai marriage certificate which is valid?

i do love her , she is my gf of 4 years but marriage is the only way she can come to UK, so thats the main reason im gonna do it. got 10days til my flight home so times running out to sort anything out this trip.

if i went back and got an english prenup arranged would she not have to be present in UK to sign it ?

or could i bring it over and she sign it when i got back to thailand?

im not really genuinly worried its just that friends and family from UK who have heard about all thebad thai ladies have urged me to not be stupid and get married without a prenup . i dont want it to be a case of every1 saying i told u so in a few years time.

[donx]

thank guys.

so gettin a thai prenup is pointless as i have no thai assets ??

and a thai prenup is not valid in an english court even if it is tied in with the thai marriage certificate which is valid?

i do love her , she is my gf of 4 years but marriage is the only way she can come to UK, so thats the main reason im gonna do it. got 10days til my flight home so times running out to sort anything out this trip.

if i went back and got an english prenup arranged would she not have to be present in UK to sign it ?

or could i bring it over and she sign it when i got back to thailand?

im not really genuinly worried its just that friends and family from UK who have heard about all thebad thai ladies have urged me to not be stupid and get married without a prenup . i dont want it to be a case of every1 saying i told u so in a few years time.

My recoomendation (although I'm a US citizen so don't know UK law) would be to get a lawyer in Thailand to draft a UK prenuptual agreement. Have your girlfriend sign it and have it witnessed. Even if such a document is not legally binding in the UK, she won't know that. She will believe that it is binding so she is unlikely to contest it. And you now have something to show your family that you have protected yourself against a potential gold digger.

[LaoPo]

thank guys.

so gettin a thai prenup is pointless as i have no thai assets ??

and a thai prenup is not valid in an english court even if it is tied in with the thai marriage certificate which is valid?

i do love her , she is my gf of 4 years but marriage is the only way she can come to UK, so thats the main reason im gonna do it. got 10days til my flight home so times running out to sort anything out this trip.

if i went back and got an english prenup arranged would she not have to be present in UK to sign it ?

or could i bring it over and she sign it when i got back to thailand?

im not really genuinly worried its just that friends and family from UK who have heard about all thebad thai ladies have urged me to not be stupid and get married without a prenup . i dont want it to be a case of every1 saying i told u so in a few years time.

I'm confused as where you are now but basically member Chiangmaibruce gave the best answers.

1. protect your assets ALWAYS with a prenup BEFORE you marry.

2. future wife has to sign before marriage, where ever you and/or she is

3. future wife has to read (be presented the ...) prenup in a language she BEST understands so probably Thai and an officially legalized tutor/translator has to be present (not sure about UK) when prenup is read, before signing.

Most people think a prenup is only in the interest of the one with most assets but that's not correct; there are many circumstances -in future- that will protect the other partner in case something nasty happens like a bankruptcy.

Also things can change for the better for a partner who has less than the one with most assets due to heritage.

Also, a partner with more assets could allow a certain % (of his/her assets) to the other partner if he or she decides to break up the marriage in case that particular partner choses for another partner and therefore decides to "cool" the damage for the "poorer" partner.

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

thank guys.

so gettin a thai prenup is pointless as i have no thai assets ??

and a thai prenup is not valid in an english court even if it is tied in with the thai marriage certificate which is valid?

i do love her , she is my gf of 4 years but marriage is the only way she can come to UK, so thats the main reason im gonna do it. got 10days til my flight home so times running out to sort anything out this trip.

if i went back and got an english prenup arranged would she not have to be present in UK to sign it ?

or could i bring it over and she sign it when i got back to thailand?

im not really genuinly worried its just that friends and family from UK who have heard about all thebad thai ladies have urged me to not be stupid and get married without a prenup . i dont want it to be a case of every1 saying i told u so in a few years time.

I'm confused as where you are now but basically member Chiangmaibruce gave the best answers.

1. protect your assets ALWAYS with a prenup BEFORE you marry.

2. future wife has to sign before marriage, where ever you and/or she is

3. future wife has to read (be presented the ...) prenup in a language she BEST understands so probably Thai and an officially legalized tutor/translator has to be present (not sure about UK) when prenup is read, before signing.

Most people think a prenup is only in the interest of the one with most assets but that's not correct; there are many circumstances -in future- that will protect the other partner in case something nasty happens like a bankruptcy.

Also things can change for the better for a partner who has less than the one with most assets due to heritage.

Also, a partner with more assets could allow a certain % (of his/her assets) to the other partner if he or she decides to break up the marriage in case that particular partner choses for another partner and therefore decides to "cool" the damage for the "poorer" partner.

LaoPo

Note:

I'm afraid I have to correct myself as I just looked a little deeper into the UK situation (I'm not British) and it appears that Prenuptial Agreements cannot be enforced before UK law "but agreements may be upheld at the judge's discretion".

The latter from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenuptial_agreement

also:

http://www.weddingguideuk.com/articles/legal/prenuptial.asp

+

http://www.clickdocs.co.uk/prenuptial-agreement.htm

LaoPo

[ballbreaker]

You might give a call to Isaan Lawyers. Sebastian is a Canadian schooled lawyer and I think they follow the UK model legal system and would be able to give you some advice.

[stgrhe]

You might give a call to Isaan Lawyers. Sebastian is a Canadian schooled lawyer and I think they follow the UK model legal system and would be able to give you some advice.

It is a very good advice. Sebastien is actually from Quebec and has studied both Code Law and Commonwealth Law and he knows what he is talking about. Issan Lawyers tariffs are also very reasonable.