this is just my observation but it does seem as though there are large numbers of anti war groups that will get up in arms aver such things as statues but when it comes to places like africa and burma they dont want to get envolved. where is the line drawn for the Doves i mean when is it ok to fight for what you believe to be right?

I think you're confused. But most of the anti-war folks I know are willing to die nonviolently struggling for peace and justice issues.

I only want to see the deaths of vandals and people who won't use capitals.

Plus purveyors of the grocers' apostrophe.

This new game is interesting.....

Contract soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan are usually paid between $500-$1,000 per day. By comparison, a U.S. Army corporal in Iraq doing the same job earns roughly $18,000 a year.

Soon it will be revealed who owns shares in this private army that operates outside all the rules of engagement & I would bet we will not be surprised

Blackwater trains mercenaries in Philippines

Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:40:22 GMT

The Philippines bay reportedly hosts a Blackwater training site.

The notorious US private security contractor, formerly known as Blackwater, uses a Philippines location to train mercenaries for Iraq and Afghanistan operations.

The company has been lent a former US naval base, northwest of the Manila Bay, "where they can train up to one thousand private military contractors," Washington-based journalist Wayne Madsen told Russia Today on Friday.

They train people from India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Fiji and the Philippines for operations in Iraq, Afghanistan and other location where they operate, according to Madsen..

The company was denied lease of the base three years ago and was reportedly operating there via a proxy. "We have also been told about a Blackwater subsidiary called Satelles Solutions," the investigative journalist added.

The group's stated mission is to provide security for US diplomats and diplomatic facilities as part of the State Department's Worldwide Personal Protection Program.

The company, which has changed its name to Xe Services, LLC, however, is notorious for misusing its State Department-issued gun license as an excuse for trigger-ready atrocities, namely the killing of 17 civilians in Iraq in 2007. The Department, however, has refused to waive its permission to carry arms in Iraq.

The company also continues to be extensively involved in Afghanistan where 70,000 US-commissioned contractors almost doubly outnumber the US troops.

One of the licentiate's staff workers has recently filed a sworn testimony in a US federal court against the security firm that may lead to new revelations and scandals. The employee has reportedly alleged that Blackwater's president, Eric Prince may have murdered or commissioned the murder of the telltales on the company.

The Pentagon is, meanwhile, accused of trusting avoidable deeds with the contractors.

The private firms "are far removed from inspectors general, from the general Government Accountability Office and other people who look into their functions. Because they can claim, off course, that their information is proprietary…they are a private company," Madsen concluded.

"It is a way to get around a lot of the oversight regulations in the government. So we find them training border patrol agents, we find them training US military special forces and what not."

That would be Subic Bay

The advantage of using contractors is that no one cares when the get killed.

The deaths of soldiers are messy with flag draped coffins being filmed by the Socialist press as they are flown home; when a 50 year old ex policeman gets it they can just shove him in a hole on the battlefield and no one's the wiser.

If I should die, think only this of me:

That there's some corner of a foreign field

That is forever America.

(With apologies to Rupert Brooke).

That would be Subic Bay

The advantage of using contractors is that no one cares when the get killed.

The deaths of soldiers are messy with flag draped coffins being filmed by the Socialist press as they are flown home; when a 50 year old ex policeman gets it they can just shove him in a hole on the battlefield and no one's the wiser.

If I should die, think only this of me:

That there's some corner of a foreign field

That is forever America.

(With apologies to Rupert Brooke).

Immense apologies needed!!!

This new game is interesting.....

Contract soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan are usually paid between $500-$1,000 per day. By comparison, a U.S. Army corporal in Iraq doing the same job earns roughly $18,000 a year.

Soon it will be revealed who owns shares in this private army that operates outside all the rules of engagement & I would bet we will not be surprised

Blackwater trains mercenaries in Philippines

Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:40:22 GMT

I think those figures are a tad misleading. Firstly, the regular enlisted corporal may have a base salary of $18 000, but will have numerous allowances such as battle or combat allowance and seperation from family compensation. These are tax free. which is an added bonus.

The other misleading info is the pay to mercenaries. I know that American and British get paid as you quoted, but Fijians get less than half of that.

Mercenaries don't get after-service benefits such as continuation of pay allowance or a pension, either.

No doubt, medical insurance is their own risk/cost also.

Here is a little input on the source Mr. Flying is using for the Subic Bay nonsense:

_________________________________________________________

ABOUT US

Press TV takes revolutionary steps as the first Iranian international news network, broadcasting in English on a round-the-clock basis.

Our global Tehran-based headquarters is staffed with outstanding Iranian and foreign media professionals.

Press TV is extensively networked with bureaus located in the world's most strategic cities.

__________________________________________________________

Home site is:

http://www.presstv.ir/aboutus.aspx

I choose not to believe an Iranian government propaganda machine for my news sources.

Edit in:

The annual pay scale for a US Army Corporal begins at $21,932 with two years service up to a high of $26,622 with six years service. This does not include uplifts for combat pay or any other overseas allowances.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp

I know Aussie servicemen get good dollars.

My mate's lads in the RAF and when he goes to the Gulf his pay virtually doubles and it's tax free. His base pay is a lot more than 18K pa as well.

Also overseas service gives them free health care for life, the much desired Gold Card.

Soon it will be revealed who owns shares in this private army that operates outside all the rules of engagement & I would bet we will not be surprised

Very surprised indeed. I remember when it was discovered that big-time liberal and Bush-basher Barbara Striesand owned stock in Haliburton. Tsk, tsk.

Trust a lefty to stuff up the stock market....

How low will Republicans stoop to try to stifle the voice of singer, director, actress, activist Barbra Streisand? Today's low blow has them rummaging through the tax returns of her charitable foundation. The Streisand Foundation gives away money to organizations that work to protect the environment, our civil liberties, the rights of women and children, and fight against nuclear proliferation. The Streisand Foundation's money is handled by an outside investment adviser who, at his discretion, buys and sells stocks and bonds to support the foundation. Unfortunately, since this administration took over, the foundation has lost hundreds of thousands of dollars that would otherwise go to worthwhile causes. Before Dick Cheney became Vice President, 800 shares of Halliburton were purchased for the foundation in April of 1999. All were sold in 2000 with a loss of $1,288 dollars.

http://www.barbrastreisand.com/at/truth-al...ns-drudge-today

Soon it will be revealed who owns shares in this private army that operates outside all the rules of engagement & I would bet we will not be surprised

Very surprised indeed. I remember when it was discovered that big-time liberal and Bush-basher Barbara Striesand owned stock in Haliburton. Tsk, tsk.

Yes well so does many others...Dick Cheney Michael Moore & many more I'm sure.

Then the contracts for arms also owned by many that should be considered insider trading at the least

As for the link above sorry I just linked to it & did not read about the site as you did. Just read the article in passing

There are many local web sites if that makes you feel better...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...a&aid=16537

even our vets have something to say about them them.....

AMERICAN GANGSTERS: JSOC, BLACKWATER AND PHONY EVERYTHING

http://www.counterpunch.org/berne12042009.html

And then there is the military itself in its newer privatized guise. In Afghanistan and Iraq an estimated 180,000 private contractors employed by private for-profit corporations such as Blackwater/Xe are increasingly taking the place of members of our nation's own armed forces.

But as for nonsense it is not nonsense that there now is a 2 to 1 ratio of private contractors to military soldiers in Iraq.

Nor is it nonsense that they are getting ready to send another 56,000 to Afghanistan

As for your pay scale does 26 grand a year or even 30 grand a years seem much better when you realize the private contractors get that in 30 days? The 500-1000 a day for blackwater contractors is their pay from 2008 I do not know what it is today but I am guessing higher.

As for your pay scale does 26 grand a year or even 30 grand a years seem much better when you realize the private contractors get that in 30 days? The 500-1000 a day for blackwater contractors is their pay from 2008 I do not know what it is today but I am guessing higher.

Soldiers are like college athletes. When they "graduate" from the military, they can go pro and demand the big bucks. But isn't it true that soldiers get other benefits that the mercs, er, contractors don't, such as housing allowance & help in getting a college education (those able to read of course), etc?

I bet the Blackwater contractors who were burned and dismembered in Fallujah would have given up some of their pay to have been able to afford a bigger, better defensed convoy than having to drive through in those little sedans.

I suspect that many of the contractors are former military anyway.

I know of several Australians who have left the army and signed up for the big $$$$.

The majority of the work contractors do currently seems to be escorting VIPs and the conveys used seem to be quite adequate in terms of defence.

I suspect that many of the contractors are former military anyway.

I know of several Australians who have left the army and signed up for the big $$$$.

The majority of the work contractors do currently seems to be escorting VIPs and the conveys used seem to be quite adequate in terms of defence.

True mostly ex=military

False that they are limited to escorting etc.

That is the story but lets face it how many escort do VIP need? 100k + ?

There is quite a bit of CIA work being reported these days.

As for Fallujah as koheesti mentioned.....

Yes you would think so & so would I.

But the blackwater site claims they never had so many inquiries of wanting to join as

after that incident. Such is the mentality

But aside from this glamour & bravado it just seems this private for hire military is just the next step.

It will be a mixed force eventually. It allows government to become a shadow government.

These are also the nice chaps that will probably be used if & when civil unrest breaks out in the USA

I would not be surprised by it.

After all in a recent poll of marine officers asked if they would order firing on US citizens in a civil unrest situation only 25%

said they would follow orders & do so. A mixed force of blackwater would probably not have the same ratio of conscience.

Pure fiction of course but Stephen King's "The Stand" described soldiers killing their own officers rather than fire upon people escaping plague stricken towns.

I suspect that many of the contractors are former military anyway.

I know of several Australians who have left the army and signed up for the big $$.

The majority of the work contractors do currently seems to be escorting VIPs and the conveys used seem to be quite adequate in terms of defence.

I can't remember the last time I heard of one being attacked - at least successfully so you're probably right.

As for the link above sorry I just linked to it & did not read about the site as you did. Just read the article in passing

There are many local web sites if that makes you feel better...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...a&aid=16537

even our vets have something to say about them them.....

AMERICAN GANGSTERS: JSOC, BLACKWATER AND PHONY EVERYTHING

http://www.counterpunch.org/berne12042009.html

And then there is the military itself in its newer privatized guise. In Afghanistan and Iraq an estimated 180,000 private contractors employed by private for-profit corporations such as Blackwater/Xe are increasingly taking the place of members of our nation's own armed forces.

But as for nonsense it is not nonsense that there now is a 2 to 1 ratio of private contractors to military soldiers in Iraq.

Nor is it nonsense that they are getting ready to send another 56,000 to Afghanistan

As for your pay scale does 26 grand a year or even 30 grand a years seem much better when you realize the private contractors get that in 30 days? The 500-1000 a day for blackwater contractors is their pay from 2008 I do not know what it is today but I am guessing higher.

Sigh.....

I really don't even know where to start. I have examined all three of the links you have provided and, while they don't seem to be sponsored by a terrorist nation, Iran, as your previous link did, they all seem suspiciously similar.

For instance:

1. All three seem to dislike intensely the US Government in virtually any form. I didn't find anything against the Post Office but what's not to like about those guys?

2. All three seem to have the same intense dislike for Israel. One of them even trying to link the Israeli government to JFK's assassination in 1963, along with, of course, 9/11. The JFK link is a new approach to an old conspiracy and was a new one on me, regardless how laughable.

3. All three seem to have extreme distrust in George W. Bush (Surprise!), Rumsfeld, Cheney, Blair and even a small amount of disdain for Obama (Big Surprise!).

4. All of them seem to believe nobody should have nukes and we should lay down our arms and join in a sing-along with our very own PeaceBlondie.

5. Global warming is rife and, if the US Military doesn't first destroy the world, Al Gore's global warming will do so.

Why do I point these obvious faults out?

Simply put, it seems you are as intense in your dislike of the Military as the sites you seem to read so vociferously. I look on them with the same credibility you would place on some of my more conservative links. How about a little Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin for input? I don't use them for the exact same reason I don't have any respect for yours. They are biased and one-sided to the core.

Let me now turn to your assertion there are 180,000 private contractors currently in Iraq, representating a 2-1 ratio to our military. The following is lifted from one of your own links:

..."While as of March 31 there were still more uniformed military personnel - 282,000 - than contractors - 242,657 "...

I am assuming these numbers apply to the totals in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Hardly a 2-1 ratio as you claim, unless all the contractors are in Iraq and the US Military presence in Afghanistan has mysteriously grown to become 161,000 and has NO contractors there. However, you assert there are 180,000 contractors in Iraq, which must leave 62,657 in Afghanistan. Your numbers are making me dizzy.

Are the contractors making more money than the US Military? Of course they are. By the same token, most of the contractors are either retired military or recently released military. They have already served their time in the low paying jobs and now have the requisite experience and training to perform the job very few others can do.

If you are running a supply depot for the military, you better hire people that have military supply experience and training or your customer is going to become rather angry. On most of my contracts, I was required to furnish EOD trained personnel. I couldn't find any of them at Wal-Mart so I looked at retired military personnel. I found them in those ranks only.

Now about those going to Afghanistan. Where are you coming up with the 56,000 figure and what does it relate to? Are you saying the military will be sending 56,000 additional personnel to Afghanistan or will that be 56,000 contractors? Or will it even be a combination of both?

In conclusion, we are probably going to have to agree to disagree on most things military. I cannot trust your links when they are coming from such sources as the government of Iran or are politically slanted as the three you provided in the quoted link. I try to provide only reputable links and even dislike using Wikipedia. Although I have done so in the past, it is not something I am proud of.

PS: My item number 4 above really isn't true. Nobody made a reference to PB. It's merely my sick attempt at humor.

In conclusion, we are probably going to have to agree to disagree on most things military.

Good thing I read all the way till the end before I started answering

Agreed to disagree

Word

This is partly what I am talking about with blackwater.

There is a movement in the military. It is not as chuckd thinks of me.

It is not that I am anti military...It is as the soldier describes in this video you posted alex.

The govt see's this & knows there is a screw turning as soldiers wake up.

As they continue to wake up along with citizens.... the govt will need someone & that is where bw will fill the need.

Simply put, it seems you are as intense in your dislike of the Military

I know I agreed to disagree but this one statement really stuck in my mind.

I had to ponder it for awhile as I wondered how I gave such an impression.

I only say that because nothing could be further from the truth. I am in agreement with many many veterans &

service personnel I am in touch with.

So I thought about it & thought I would clear the air a bit.....

My stance is this....I have no beef with the military & given my past & outlook it is simpler to say....

How could I have a beef with the military they are just the horse. Who/what I do have a beef with are the jockeys & their

use of the horse. Both legal & illegal. I have a problem with the jockeys using our States National Guard/horses illegally ...I also have a problem with the jockeys bringing in mercenary horses who can operate outside of the rules of engagement & later the jockeys can claim distance from those mercenary horses as they were not official govt horses.

I have a problem with the jockeys lying to the horse & convincing them they are in a race where no race exists. I also have a problem with the jockeys thinking they own the horse when in fact they do not.

I even have a problem with the way the jockeys are chosen.

How we the people are led to believe that we get to choose the jockeys when in fact it is a malfunctioning electoral college along with the largest campaign contributors who actually choose the jockeys.

I hope that analogy is clear as to why I have no intense dislike of the military & how I in fact hold out hopes that the military will choose wisely when the time comes & remember their oath to uphold the constitution even when their jockeys try to get them to trample it under hoof.

excellent answer Flying!

excellent answer Flying!

Kob Kuhn Krup

Flying:

I'm assuming your "jockeys" are the politicians?

While the description of your feelings about all this is certainly colorful, wouldn't it have been easier to simply say you had no beef with the US Military, but you do have a problem with the politicians?

The use of "mercenary horses" was used by the British in the Revolutionary War of 1776 when they hired some 30,000 Hessians to fight against the Colonials. Ah, those Germans. Always willing to fight for a cause.

The alleged use of Blackwater is nothing new. I met a few in Riyadh. They were guarding the US Embassy there and other places and I always had respect for them. They were always going to be the first ones to know when a bomb went off. The pointy end of the spear and all that....

Thanks for disagreeing to agree to disagree. I look forward to future exchanges of opinions.

Flying:

I'm assuming your "jockeys" are the politicians?

Actually no

Politicians for the most part are just the ventriloquists dummies

Flying:

I'm assuming your "jockeys" are the politicians?

Actually no

Politicians for the most part are just the ventriloquists dummies

To certain degree. It's impossible to achieve power now without substantial financial backing. Any reader of my posts would know I would have hoped for an Obama presidency but I still suspect McCain lost because he ran out of money. (OK,OK, Ms Palin didn't help much either).

Wonder what sort of a president McCain would have made? The extreme right hated him so he must have had some good points.

Simply put, it seems you are as intense in your dislike of the Military

I know I agreed to disagree but this one statement really stuck in my mind.

I had to ponder it for awhile as I wondered how I gave such an impression.

I only say that because nothing could be further from the truth. I am in agreement with many many veterans &

service personnel I am in touch with.

So I thought about it & thought I would clear the air a bit.....

My stance is this....I have no beef with the military & given my past & outlook it is simpler to say....

How could I have a beef with the military they are just the horse. Who/what I do have a beef with are the jockeys & their

use of the horse. Both legal & illegal. I have a problem with the jockeys using our States National Guard/horses illegally ...I also have a problem with the jockeys bringing in mercenary horses who can operate outside of the rules of engagement & later the jockeys can claim distance from those mercenary horses as they were not official govt horses.

I have a problem with the jockeys lying to the horse & convincing them they are in a race where no race exists. I also have a problem with the jockeys thinking they own the horse when in fact they do not.

I even have a problem with the way the jockeys are chosen.

How we the people are led to believe that we get to choose the jockeys when in fact it is a malfunctioning electoral college along with the largest campaign contributors who actually choose the jockeys.

I hope that analogy is clear as to why I have no intense dislike of the military & how I in fact hold out hopes that the military will choose wisely when the time comes & remember their oath to uphold the constitution even when their jockeys try to get them to trample it under hoof.

What about the part about the horses being too stupid to run in the race in the first place?

What about the part about the horses being too stupid to run in the race in the first place?

Again the fault lies with the jockey for trying to run a horse that pulled up lame.

Not very conscientious nor humane wouldn't you agree.

Flying:

I'm assuming your "jockeys" are the politicians?

Actually no

Politicians for the most part are just the ventriloquists dummies

you don't expect some Chuck to understand what you mean, or do you?

Flying:

I'm assuming your "jockeys" are the politicians?

Actually no

Politicians for the most part are just the ventriloquists dummies

Mr. Flying:

I'm just an old dumb American country boy. Why can't you just say what you mean without all this symbolism?

Mr. Naam:

I wouldn't dare cross verbal swords with you. I would simply wilt under the criticism a German citizen would give me on invasions and nation building.