Alternative Retirement Destinations For Expats (other Than Thailand)

NeverSure · May 28, 2013

I agree there are serious difficulties with getting into the Ecuador visa system. There seems to be a trend of some kind towards improvement, such as the opening of a Cuenca immigration office and their announcement no lawyers needed (but probably still needed). Perhaps there is hope it will get better over time. Again, the driver of the real estate in Cuenca is Ecuadorians. How can less than 1 percent of the market drive prices?

I'm not sure. I do know the government subsidizes home purchases for locals so ?? Link

Also, with rents rising, higher prices would pencil even for locals. There are quite a few wealthy local investors.

I do know prices of both homes and rent have gone up quite a bit. I did read an article which was interviewing the mayor of Cuenca, and he was concerned about it for the average local.

Jingthing · May 28, 2013

Well, on RENTS, I know many expats allow themselves to be gouged so some landlords would naturally want to rent to them. But the numbers of expats are so small, at least for now, that blaming the overall inflation on foreigners is just not logical.

NeverSure · May 28, 2013

Well, maybe expats aren't the reason, but prices have definitely gone up. Ecuador has gobs of oil which belongs to the government and the government subsidizes home purchases for locals. Ecuador is actually wealthy with Amazon rain forests and oil and fisheries. It's just that it's in the hands of a few. I have no idea why they even allow expats, but they do but with increasing difficulty. Ecuador will continue to gain as they drill more oil (unfortunately much of it in those rain forests.)

Sometimes we forget that natural resources will underpin a country's economy ala Middle East oil countries. That despite their lack of other industry.

Rent is cheaper than in Western countries, but higher than LOS. It's more like The Philippines. Even Cambodia's rent is higher than LOS and I think its due to lack of new construction. Thailand is in the middle of a huge construction - whatever. There are so many vacancies holding rents down.

I don't know the reason(s) that prices have been rising in Ecuador, but I know they have.

jaideeguy · May 29, 2013

There comes a point in our ages where the thought of liquidating assets, moving, settling, learning new languages, cultures and new foods is overwhelming. I think that lots of us LOS expats are past that point, but it's fun to armchair travel. Amazing that this thread has gone so long.

Jingthing · May 29, 2013

Well, maybe expats aren't the reason, but prices have definitely gone up. Ecuador has gobs of oil which belongs to the government and the government subsidizes home purchases for locals. Ecuador is actually wealthy with Amazon rain forests and oil and fisheries. It's just that it's in the hands of a few. I have no idea why they even allow expats, but they do but with increasing difficulty. Ecuador will continue to gain as they drill more oil (unfortunately much of it in those rain forests.)

Sometimes we forget that natural resources will underpin a country's economy ala Middle East oil countries. That despite their lack of other industry.

Rent is cheaper than in Western countries, but higher than LOS. It's more like The Philippines. Even Cambodia's rent is higher than LOS and I think its due to lack of new construction. Thailand is in the middle of a huge construction - whatever. There are so many vacancies holding rents down.

I don't know the reason(s) that prices have been rising in Ecuador, but I know they have.

Cuenca is a special case city. It is seen by Ecuadorians as a rising star/good investment, and it has been. There are huge numbers of Ecuadorians who have been working/own businesses in the USA, typically in New York, and with the American economic slowdown of the last several years, many have either returned home or made real estate investments in Ecuador, and Cuenca is the preferred choice.

Yes, Ecuador's left wing government is interesting. It doesn't seem nearly as extreme/polarizing as Chavez was but in a similar mold.

Jingthing · May 29, 2013

There comes a point in our ages where the thought of liquidating assets, moving, settling, learning new languages, cultures and new foods is overwhelming. I think that lots of us LOS expats are past that point, but it's fun to armchair travel. Amazing that this thread has gone so long.

Don't jump to too many conclusions. Retired expats in Thailand are one ONE YEAR leashes. Our security in staying here is always tenuous. Not considering other options may be foolhardy.

MrWorldwide · May 29, 2013

Ecuador has had plenty of recommendations here - jury is still out, for mine.

It's hard to have a credible opinion about any place before even visiting. I haven't been there. In my past I was interested in some countries and then visited. Then I wasn't interested. Like Costa Rica.

BTW, Cuenca is in the process of building a fantastic modern urban light rail system:

http://www.cuencahighlife.com/post/2012/10/30/Cuencas-new-light-rail-system-Tranvia-de-los-Cuatro-Rios-begins-construction-in-November.aspx

Imagine such a system in Chiang Mai or Pattaya. That's all you'll do because it ain't happening here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I_6n-CyOsA&feature=related

When was the last time you saw travellers in CM or Pattaya dressed as though they were going to work in Stockholm in January ? Either those folks are exceptionally sensitive to cooler weather, or that part of the world has an actual Winter - I couldnt live in La Paz, and I'm sure as hell not going to live in any other part of the world where you need a neck scarf ! <deleted>, the climate is one of SEA's biggest drawcards.

lovetotravel · May 29, 2013

Cuenca is at 2500 meters. Friday, the high is suppose to be 19, low 5. Off the radar for me.

I was there about 10 years ago. It was OK, but we only stayed a few nights. Didn't seem like much to do. Spanish is a must. Bus transport is absolutely scary. Crime is a major factor. Pretty much every place we saw had bars on the windows. Same is true in almost all of Mexico, CA and SA.

During my 3 months in SA, about 1/3rd of the travelers I met had been the victim of some sort of theft. Here in Asia, I think I met one. And we're pretty sure he was victimized by another tourist.

lovelaos · May 30, 2013

There comes a point in our ages where the thought of liquidating assets, moving, settling, learning new languages, cultures and new foods is overwhelming. I think that lots of us LOS expats are past that point, but it's fun to armchair travel. Amazing that this thread has gone so long.

Don't jump to too many conclusions. Retired expats in Thailand are one ONE YEAR leashes. Our security in staying here is always tenuous. Not considering other options may be foolhardy.

Agreed, also some of us have years left before we need to make the decision

Naam · May 30, 2013

There comes a point in our ages where the thought of liquidating assets, moving, settling, learning new languages, cultures and new foods is overwhelming. I think that lots of us LOS expats are past that point, but it's fun to armchair travel. Amazing that this thread has gone so long.

Don't jump to too many conclusions. Retired expats in Thailand are one ONE YEAR leashes. Our security in staying here is always tenuous. Not considering other options may be foolhardy.

being paranoid is foolhardy too.

jellydog · May 30, 2013

Its been discussed here before, but always remember the security issues in South America. I lived in Argentina for years and traveled throughout South America. For those who live in Thailand, and have never been to South America, you would be in for a rude awakening when it comes to crime. In comparison, Thailand is heaven. For what its worth, its heaven here compared to many cities in the USA.

I found a lot to like in South America, but the security situation is poor, no two ways about it.

Lancelot · May 30, 2013

Thailand is good, but it doesn't hurt to know what else is out there ...

+1 I'm always on the look out for a new location

I never intended to stay 10+ years in Thailand; however, the Retirement Extension of stay is so easy and cheap that I'm sorta on auto pilot.

I most likely will -at some point- end up spliting my time, 6 months in Thailand and 6 month is the USA

MrWorldwide · May 30, 2013

Finally, a little cold, hard reality re South America - I knew the pictures being painted here were far too rosy. I dont wear any blinkers re SE Asia, but when someone tries to tell me that places like Ecuador and Colombia have magically reinvented themselves in the last 5 years I'm afraid I need to hear the other side of that 'miracle'. That said, some here still wont consider Malaysia a viable alternative simply because its a Muslim nation, so I guess we all have our biases to contend with.

Jingthing · May 30, 2013

Finally, a little cold, hard reality re South America - I knew the pictures being painted here were far too rosy. I dont wear any blinkers re SE Asia, but when someone tries to tell me that places like Ecuador and Colombia have magically reinvented themselves in the last 5 years I'm afraid I need to hear the other side of that 'miracle'. That said, some here still wont consider Malaysia a viable alternative simply because its a Muslim nation, so I guess we all have our biases to contend with.

South America is a huge place with a number of countries offering retirement possibilities. Different cultures, climates, crime rates, and visa options. Ecuador interests me but I don't think I would bother unless they make their visa process much more transparent and user friendly. I couldn't financially qualify for Malaysia and I reckon the majority of Americans of retirement age couldn't either unless they have a generous PRIVATE pension (which is more rare these days). I've been surprised in recent years to learn more S.A. nations have official retirement visa options such as Columbia, Peru, and Chile. If push comes to shove, I'd be interested in more exploratory travel there, such as to Chile, and I'm still curious about Panama in Central America. I would still rule out Columbia based on crime.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Jingthing

Jingthing · May 30, 2013

When was the last time you saw travellers in CM or Pattaya dressed as though they were going to work in Stockholm in January ? Either those folks are exceptionally sensitive to cooler weather, or that part of the world has an actual Winter - I couldnt live in La Paz, and I'm sure as hell not going to live in any other part of the world where you need a neck scarf ! <deleted>, the climate is one of SEA's biggest drawcards.

It's only an artist's conception. The system isn't built yet. It's a year round spring-like climate (classified as subtropical highland climate), but there is a season of increased dampness and cooler weather and the cheaper homes aren't heated to western standards. Sweaters or light jackets typically needed at night. Yes, not tropical like Thailand and I agree it would be a rude shock after acclimation in Thailand. It is considered a very desirable climate overall but not for everyone. But for those who want tropical (and humid) plenty of that in Ecuador as well.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Jingthing

IMA_FARANG · May 30, 2013

Maine --- inexpensive land, great lobster, people mostly speak English!

1k-1.8k USD a month is way too low to have any security blanket in expendable income almost anywhere!

I think I know you.............you play the banjo and live in the backwaters of Arkansas.........right?

Now..........back on planet earth............

-----------------------

It may surprise you, but in Maine on the shore near where tourists go for "cheap" Lobster the prices for that lobster dinner are higher than anywhere else in the state.

Tourism is a big business in Maine, and the locals take advantage of that fact.

Why should that surprise you?

MrWorldwide · May 30, 2013

I spent too many hours reading Stephen King novels in my teens - his description of the Maine Winter completely put me off that neck of the woods, and Jim Carrey didnt help several decades later

(just remembered - Carrey was a Rhode Island Statie - my mistake.)

NeverSure · May 30, 2013

I'm not moving to LOS permanently. I have too much to lose. I can travel there a couple of times a year and stay a few months and have the best of both worlds.

The biggie is my medicare advantage which is full health insurance for life at about $100 a month if I can set foot on US soil. Next is my ability to keep all of my toys in the US. I'm a collector of guns, Harleys, and 50's and 60's Schwinn bikes and I can keep all of them here. I also have friends here. It's also first world and I don't want to debate the difference there.

I was planning on selling out and moving to LOS, but when it came right down to it I couldn't. So it's about 50/50 and I'm happiest with that.

Edited May 30, 2013 by NeverSure

IMA_FARANG · May 30, 2013

Looking at Vietnam as a possible retirement country.

I just spent 30 days in Vietnam, roughly divided between Ho Chi Minh, Vung Tau, and Nha Trang.

It's not a 'paradise" but it is rapidly changing.

Of the 3 places I visited, Nha Trang was my favorite. There are many small budget hotels not more than a 5 minute walk from the beach areas in Nha Trang.

I will be returning in about a week, hopefully with a 3 month visa. I know of two places not far from the beach who are offering "long term rental" for an apartment, but as of yet I do not know what they will want for a 3 month rental.

While I was in Vung Tau I was told by an expat living there with his Vietnamese wife that the Vietnamese government had just passed a new law that allows a foreigner to purchase in his/her name a residence property in Vietnam and be the sole owner of that RESIDENTIAL property. The property is NOT allowed to be bought for a business purpose, but is a residential property only.

This law is new and was passed at the beginning of May ... so the exact details are not clear yet.

From my experience living costs in Vietnam are cheaper than in Thailand.

What particularly impressed me about Vietnam was the smiles you got from the people. Not the half-hearted smiles you get here in Thailand (and I first came to Thailand in 1979 when things were different and more friendly for foreigners).

Especially for me as an American, it was nice to see people generally happy and friendly to meet Americans as I did in Vietnam.

Now that may change in the future, but right now the Vietnamese are happy to see Americans again.... and they show it.

I think, right now, living costs in Vietnam are equivalent to Thailand 10 or more years ago.

And for those of you who are qualified or experienced as English teachers in Thailand ... I met an English school headmaster in Vung Tau who is actively looking for English teachers for a school he just opened.

He stressed that he wanted experienced teachers TOEFL qualified.

At present, Vietnam does NOT stress qualifications for teachers of English as the Thais do.

It's there on the books that you should be qualified ... but right now it's not being made an issue.

That may change in the future, but right now Vietnam is going through a boom in English language schools and the Vietnamese (perhaps unlike the Thais) see learning English as the key to getting a good job.

In Vietnam, having a true English English teacher is regarded as the mark of a prestige English language school.

And , if anything, the Vietnamese are as big on the "face" issue as the Thais are .... so they prefer real English teachers.

So to sum it up, Vietnam is not yet a paradise, there are still issues in getting a long term visa for a long stay.

But it is changing fast ,,, and therefore it is definitely a place to watch as an alternative retirement destination.

My personal opinion here .... Thailand had better watch out .... Vietnam is coming up fast.

They are watching the mistakes Thailand is making .... and they intend to learn to avoid those mistakes from watching Thailand's mistakes.

In another decade or so, they well may be ahead of Thailand in many ways.

The Vietnamese are the young and aggressive ones, compared to the Thais.

Edited May 30, 2013 by IMA_FARANG

Jingthing · May 30, 2013

Vietnam. No retirement visa option.

lovetotravel · May 30, 2013

Finally, a little cold, hard reality re South America - I knew the pictures being painted here were far too rosy. I dont wear any blinkers re SE Asia, but when someone tries to tell me that places like Ecuador and Colombia have magically reinvented themselves in the last 5 years I'm afraid I need to hear the other side of that 'miracle'. That said, some here still wont consider Malaysia a viable alternative simply because its a Muslim nation, so I guess we all have our biases to contend with.

South America is a huge place with a number of countries offering retirement possibilities. Different cultures, climates, crime rates, and visa options. Ecuador interests me but I don't think I would bother unless they make their visa process much more transparent and user friendly. I couldn't financially qualify for Malaysia and I reckon the majority of Americans of retirement age couldn't either unless they have a generous PRIVATE pension (which is more rare these days). I've been surprised in recent years to learn more S.A. nations have official retirement visa options such as Columbia, Peru, and Chile. If push comes to shove, I'd be interested in more exploratory travel there, such as to Chile, and I'm still curious about Panama in Central America. I would still rule out Columbia based on crime.

We spent a month in Panama. It's OK, but more third world than here. Crime in Panama City was noticeable, with police roaming everywhere. Traffic was a zoom, air pollution horrible. Peru is about the same, Ecuador about same same also. We were in Lima ready to go out for dinner when the owner of our guest house gave us a 15 minute lecture on how to stay safe.

Now Chile! We loved it. Never felt unsafe. Lots of diversity. Great wine, great seafood, beautiful mountains, great beaches. I also loved Argentina, but agree with the poster above. BA felt a bit too dodgy for us. It was one of the places we had an attempted pickpocket and were warned on a regular basis to be careful at night. But I'm sure Santiago is dodgy also. We were only there for 2 nights. Spent 10 days in BA.

Jingthing · May 30, 2013

I was in B.A. for several weeks, walking around at night, never a crime problem. Depends on the neighborhood of course. That said, for complex reasons, Argentina is off my interest list.

Lima yes more dodgy. The food is so good.

Isn't Chile a first world country now? From what I've checked, they have a flexible open minded retirement visa policy. They adjust the financial requirements depending on the region you choose.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Jingthing

lovetotravel · May 30, 2013

I was in B.A. for several weeks, walking around at night, never a crime problem. Depends on the neighborhood of course. That said, for complex reasons, Argentina is off my interest list.

Lima yes more dodgy.

Isn't Chile a first world country now? From what I've checked, they have a flexible open minded retirement visa policy. They adjust the financial requirements depending on the region you choose.

Yes, absolutely. We spent a few nights near the downtown area because that's where our friends live. Seemed to be a bit dodgy at night, but not too bad. Normal for a big city. We had no problems at all where we spent a week: Palermo. Really liked it, but got tired of dodging dog poo!!!

I have a good friend here who's quite serious about relocating to Chile. He's researched it heavily, and has the money to live anywhere he wants. Lucky him.

I don't know much about the visa situation there. I'm pretty happy here for now, but always looking for alternatives. This past hot season was a killer. May have to go back to leaving during this time and head elsewhere.

MrWorldwide · May 30, 2013

Chile and Argentina are the only countries I would seriously consider in S America. I worked with a Chilean in Brissie and he expressed no desire to go home. He had his Chilean mates to shoot the shit with, and that seemed to be enough of the 'old country' to keep him happy - horses for courses, I guess.

waza · May 30, 2013

I lean towards Cambodia because they make a decent beer. Whats the beer like in Burma? I will stay close in SEA cos my assets are in Aus and so is high quality and free health care.

Edited May 30, 2013 by waza

Jingthing · May 31, 2013

Chile and Argentina are the only countries I would seriously consider in S America. I worked with a Chilean in Brissie and he expressed no desire to go home. He had his Chilean mates to shoot the shit with, and that seemed to be enough of the 'old country' to keep him happy - horses for courses, I guess.

I've heard different opinions about Chile for expats. From loving it and don't ever want to leave (interestingly from an American man who has worked there for many years and still can't speak Spanish!) to BORING from a famous Buenos Aires expat. I don't know. Haven't been.

However, their visa option seems fantastic. It offers a FAST path towards permanent residency and even allows working and opening a business on it. You need an income stream of some kind, but apparently not very much, and they are very flexible on the source. Also it only needs to be in effect for the period BEFORE permanent residency. I'd call this visa truly civilized, welcoming, and even progressive. For a modern successful nation that has arrived, an open door visa like this is unusual. One Thailand feature that it lacks is the bank account only option of Thailand.

http://www.spencerglobal.com/chile-immigration-law/32/82-chile-immigration-and-residency-visas.html

Edited May 31, 2013 by Jingthing

lovetotravel · May 31, 2013

Chile and Argentina are the only countries I would seriously consider in S America. I worked with a Chilean in Brissie and he expressed no desire to go home. He had his Chilean mates to shoot the shit with, and that seemed to be enough of the 'old country' to keep him happy - horses for courses, I guess.

I've heard different opinions about Chile for expats. From loving it and don't ever want to leave (interestingly from an American man who has worked there for many years and still can't speak Spanish!) to BORING from a famous Buenos Aires expat. I don't know. Haven't been.

However, their visa option seems fantastic. It offers a FAST path towards permanent residency and even allows working and opening a business on it. You need an income stream of some kind, but apparently not very much, and they are very flexible on the source. Also it only needs to be in effect for the period BEFORE permanent residency. I'd call this visa truly civilized, welcoming, and even progressive. For a modern successful nation that has arrived, an open door visa like this is unusual. One Thailand feature that it lacks is the bank account only option of Thailand.

http://www.spencerglobal.com/chile-immigration-law/32/82-chile-immigration-and-residency-visas.html

I think BA is much more exciting than Santiago. Could be your friend's perspective. Makes sense.

What I like about Chile is the varied geography. From deserts to beaches to mountains to glaciers, etc. Truly amazing.

Great seafood and wine too!!!

Jingthing · May 31, 2013

Naturally, B.A. is a very exciting city indeed.

I guess Chile is on my wish list of places to check out if I get around to it ...

An interesting factoid about Chile: abortion is illegal there. Quite unusual even in Catholic South America.

This is kind of disturbing!

Flag of Chile

Flag of Texas

Edited May 31, 2013 by Jingthing

NeverSure · May 31, 2013

Have you guys checked out the cost of living in Chile? I think it's almost 50% higher than Chiang Mai.

What Thailand has going for it right now is cheap housing and utilities.

Jingthing · May 31, 2013

Have you guys checked out the cost of living in Chile? I think it's almost 50% higher than Chiang Mai.

What Thailand has going for it right now is cheap housing and utilities.

I think that's misleading. The cost in Santiago or the cost in the provinces? It's much cheaper outside Santiago.

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