When Thai Red-Shirts Turn Colourless

[way2muchcoffee]

Reds are fighting for the thing that so many stupid farangs who have written on this website take for granted in their home countries: democracy. For those who think it is purely about Thaksin's interests, you are so wrong (although, of course, he is the leader of the red shirts).

The real coward in all this is the Thai government, which was not elected by The People and is, therefore, not prepared to hold an election because they know they have absolutely no chance of winning. And why do they have absolutely no chance of winning? Because they know The People would not vote for them. And that, my friends, is why the red shirts are fighting: let The People decide who should run the country.

Very true.

Clearly though, some of the posters on this thread can't handle the truth.

Well that doesn't sit with the number of voters who voted Democrat versus PPP in the last election in which the Democrats edged the PPP in the percentage of voters. By all measures it is clear that the Democrats and the PPP share approximately equal support throughout the country. Now once the support from the coalition partners is factored in this government represents an overwhelming majority of the voters at 61%, compared to the mere 39% of the people who support PTP.

Evidently the red shirt leaders are incapable of realizing they represent only a minority voice as a percentage of the population, significant yes, but still a minority. Their inability to heed the fact that the vast majority of the population are not on their side shows just how un-democratic they really are.

Edited April 29, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[kraxlhuber]

By not wearing red, the have a better chance of escaping and mingling with non-protesters. This will limit the Governments options for a crackdown...

1. A crackdown can only be done, after telling all non-protesters to leave the area and giving them time to do so.

2. A crackdown, will most likely have to be conducted at night, when the malls are closed, so protesters can't run into the malls and mix with regular citizens.

3. The Government may we wise now, to order a curfew, then cracking down on the protesters, a few hours after the curfew starts. That way, nobody, besides the protesters, have any business being there and they will get the right people, regardless of what color shirt, pants or bra they happen to wear, at the time

Then again, this will cause a problem outside of Bangkok, because it gives protesters a chance to gather undetected, until it is too late. From a Red perspective, definitely a clever move.

I dont think this will change things much... Theres still a group of people cauising shit,so as you mention in point 1 its still easy to identify who they are...

The big problem is how to do that crackdown on the main protest site without significant loss of life... I have an idea where you just get highly fortified water cannons with dirty big earth moving buckets on the front and drive a path through the blockade... Get 6 of those bastards driving through and it will clear the roads at least...

Its gotta be better then having a few troops shooting rubber bullets and being shot at in the process...

not eally a new idea,it's been done in Gaza/in Israel since long time.

They have a VERRY effective way to punish the perpetrators,identify some and then go to their houses and bulldoze them wherever that would be.

Any objection to that will be answered with a hail of live bullets.

But not here in civilized Thailand,the land of grins not smiles,that would be drastic,protesting is SANUK,beeng high on Ya Ba, so is killing poeples in some dumbass mind's.

I (i ) have abetter idea and should get the Nobel Peace Prize for it.

Rats are best catched and terminated by FLUSHING them out of their liars.

Sandbag the whole protest area on all ends with sandbags or 100 truckloads of earth or concrete if thats better and flush them out with firehydrant water etc.

See how they can swim,make a warning with loudspeakers (also in Burmese,Laotian,Malay),so to enable the kids,grannys and halfwitted Volk can go home before the GRAET DELUDgE.

Edited April 29, 2010 by kraxlhuber

[LevelHead]

Rather than asking why Red Shirts turn colorless, why does the writer not ask why all Red media is shut down, why freedom of informaiton is now the same as Burma, why the government/Yellow side are still rampant in their use of propaganda ?

Want to research some on this issue then

http://facthai.wordpress.com/

.

[animatic]

Reds are fighting for the thing that so many stupid farangs who have written on this website take for granted in their home countries: democracy. For those who think it is purely about Thaksin's interests, you are so wrong (although, of course, he is the leader of the red shirts).

The real coward in all this is the Thai government, which was not elected by The People and is, therefore, not prepared to hold an election because they know they have absolutely no chance of winning. And why do they have absolutely no chance of winning? Because they know The People would not vote for them. And that, my friends, is why the red shirts are fighting: let The People decide who should run the country.

Very true.

Clearly though, some of the posters on this thread can't handle the truth.

This poor mans imitation of Jack Nicholson is not quite cutting it.

The one vote per person voting was rather closely fought last election.

1/2 point difference PPP and Dems not exactly a clear cut mandate for PPP.

[whybother]

Rather than asking why Red Shirts turn colorless, why does the writer not ask why all Red media is shut down, why freedom of informaiton is now the same as Burma, why the government/Yellow side are still rampant in their use of propaganda ?

Want to research some on this issue then

http://facthai.wordpress.com/

.

"why freedom of informaiton is now the same as Burma" ... yet you are able to freely criticize the government. That doesn't sound like Burma to me.

[animatic]

You're assessing the situation from a reasoned perspective. That's not Thai style. Thais look at the situation from different perspective, a mix of superstition and subjectivity, indecision, worry, non-researched, non-resolve. Get in to the Thai mind-set, and you'll get a better idea of why the problems have grown so big and polarizing.

...

And this is the country which wants to build four nuclear power plants - can't wait.

Farang USA, you don't like the Thai way? - there is an easy solution: GO HOME!

Jingoist tag line. What a waste of air.

"Farang USA", you say that like it's an insult.

He never said he disliked Thai thought, it just helps explains WHY there is this current problem.

Or are you denying that Thais have a problem in Thailand right now?

[asiawatcher]

Arrest anyone not carrying an ID card.

Arrest somebody. The red convoy that was cut off yesterday should have been rounded up and arrested, not allowed to go back to the main rally site. Start arresting the protesters, get them off the street. Cut out the catch and release policy, this isn't fishing. They are breaking the law, start enforcing it and they'll get the message. Keep sending them back to join the protest and it will never end.

As already said, there is complete breakdown here now of law and order and a useless police force, ditto the army both of whom are refusing to take orders. The PM has already issued the orders, now they are making the decisions when they 'wish' to act. Unbelievable. If ever anarchy was set to rule, now may be a good time to understand what it entails.

[chantorn]

Rather than asking why Red Shirts turn colorless, why does the writer not ask why all Red media is shut down, why freedom of informaiton is now the same as Burma, why the government/Yellow side are still rampant in their use of propaganda ?

Want to research some on this issue then

http://facthai.wordpress.com/

.

"why freedom of informaiton is now the same as Burma" ... yet you are able to freely criticize the government. That doesn't sound like Burma to me.

Can someone inform CRES to block http://facthai.wordpress.com/ as well.

Thanks.

PS. I am still waiting for http://www.springnewstv.com/ to be unblock to watch Soldiers Shooting Soldiers (SSS).

[Insight]

Rather than asking why Red Shirts turn colorless, why does the writer not ask why all Red media is shut down, why freedom of informaiton is now the same as Burma, why the government/Yellow side are still rampant in their use of propaganda ?

Want to research some on this issue then

http://facthai.wordpress.com/

.

"why freedom of informaiton is now the same as Burma" ... yet you are able to freely criticize the government. That doesn't sound like Burma to me.

Check 2Bangkok.com for the latest publicly available red propaganda media.

[Koh_Falang]

Rather than asking why Red Shirts turn colorless, why does the writer not ask why all Red media is shut down, why freedom of informaiton is now the same as Burma, why the government/Yellow side are still rampant in their use of propaganda ?

Want to research some on this issue then

http://facthai.wordpress.com/

.

Pretty simply why we dont talk about that really...

This thread is not about freedom of speech... start your own post

[lannarebirth]

Reds are fighting for the thing that so many stupid farangs who have written on this website take for granted in their home countries: democracy. For those who think it is purely about Thaksin's interests, you are so wrong (although, of course, he is the leader of the red shirts).

The real coward in all this is the Thai government, which was not elected by The People and is, therefore, not prepared to hold an election because they know they have absolutely no chance of winning. And why do they have absolutely no chance of winning? Because they know The People would not vote for them. And that, my friends, is why the red shirts are fighting: let The People decide who should run the country.

So the Red Shirts are fighting over some future event they have no evidence will ever occur?

Hey, let me ask you this. Can a countyr have a democratic society without the rule of law? I ask because I note the sympathies of the police force are with the Red protesters but at the same time the police force is an ineffective, corrupt and oppressive organization; against the poor in particular. That doesn't strike you as odd or questionable?

[jesse89]

why Thaivisa do you post the nation dribble on your website. Give us a break from this rubbish and get a decent news source.

If you make such statement you should enlighten and advise all members which 'decent source' is a decent one...

Try "The New Mandala" if you are looking for something other than the usual rhetoric that journalists writing for The Nation feed us. It is written by two professors of Thai politics at the Australian National University, and other professors and so called experts from around the world regularly contribute to the site as well.

[chantorn]

Arrest anyone not carrying an ID card.

Arrest somebody. The red convoy that was cut off yesterday should have been rounded up and arrested, not allowed to go back to the main rally site. Start arresting the protesters, get them off the street. Cut out the catch and release policy, this isn't fishing. They are breaking the law, start enforcing it and they'll get the message. Keep sending them back to join the protest and it will never end.

As already said, there is complete breakdown here now of law and order and a useless police force, ditto the army both of whom are refusing to take orders. The PM has already issued the orders, now they are making the decisions when they 'wish' to act. Unbelievable. If ever anarchy was set to rule, now may be a good time to understand what it entails.

I heard from some political programs (definitely not from NBT), that the police will only take take written orders, black and white only, in original format, and signature has to be verified first. Hence, most of the time, they were just standing there waiting and waiting for the piece of paper.

The reason that police do not take verbal order anymore was because in the last crack down (of PAD), there was an argument in court between the police and Big Jew. Big Jew said the police acted on their own, and police said Big Jew ordered on the behalf of Somchai. Somchai like always, kept quiet.

[jonclark]

Rather than asking why Red Shirts turn colorless, why does the writer not ask why all Red media is shut down, why freedom of informaiton is now the same as Burma, why the government/Yellow side are still rampant in their use of propaganda ?

Want to research some on this issue then

http://facthai.wordpress.com/

.

Levelhead - I agree that there needs to be freedom of expression / information, but if you are free to express your wishes and those wishes incite or encourage others to use violence which results in injury or death. Should you be allowed that luxury to express yourself freely? i have seen a number of you tube clips of red speakers at rallies - and one springs to mind of a middle aged man encouraging people to take 1 liter bottles from Khon Kean?? (possibly i am mistaken about the city), then march to Bangkok, fill the bottles with petrol and use them to burn down the buildings of institutions, including the privy councilor.

Should that information be freely available political / community leaders encouraging lawlessness, violence and hatred.

Those who wish to have fredom of information and experssion need to censor themsleves in accordance with the laws and not incite others into commiting unlawful acts.

Do the sites that have been block fall into that category - i don't know. Whilst i don't agree with limiting the flow of information, at this time if a few 'innocent sites get blocked in a 'crackdown' but this crack down prevents death and injury. Isn't that a small price to pay.

I'm not going to get into an argument why haven't yellow sites been shut down, because i don't know if they have or haven't.

[Tanaka]

Any group or person who takes their babies and young children into a potentially violent zone such as the occupied area at Ratchaprasong is either a coward, mentally defective, or a parent who guilty of child abuse. And all this while the fat man runs away from a fight to dine on fried chicken in air conditioned comfort.

How about is a coward, mentally defective and parent guilty of child abuse?

[ETatBKK]

Rather than asking why Red Shirts turn colorless, why does the writer not ask why all Red media is shut down, why freedom of informaiton is now the same as Burma, why the government/Yellow side are still rampant in their use of propaganda ?

Want to research some on this issue then

http://facthai.wordpress.com/

we still have a LOT of 'freedom of information' ! can't compare with Burma or China, over there we are all jailed !

seriously, can you suggest some 'non-yellow / non-government' English media that we could follow, thanks. ( sorry I could not locate your suggestion in another forum )

apologise, this is off-topic.

[animatic]

Rather than asking why Red Shirts turn colorless, why does the writer not ask why all Red media is shut down, why freedom of informaiton is now the same as Burma, why the government/Yellow side are still rampant in their use of propaganda ?

Want to research some on this issue then

http://facthai.wordpress.com/

.

You sound like you have never actually BEEN to Burma...

[animatic]

I agree with part of what you say Jon - that the PT & Dems have to work together.

I don't agree with the 'groundswell' of support for the reds/PT though. How do you measure that ?

I didn't say there was a groundswell of support. I measure the lack of support, by the fact that the numbers boasted about simply didn't materialize. Of course people will say they were prevented from going to Bkk, fair enough, but why didn't we see large numbers in other provinces like Khon Kaen etc. demostrating, if they were prevented from going to Bkk. As opposed to a few hundreds or thousands turining up every now and then.

BTW love this bit from the daily update -

BPbreakingnews: Reds to petition European Union UDD to ask EU to supervise demonstration

Hiding behind farangs are we lads - Such courage from the leaders - Maybe you can ask the EU to bring some MacD's when they arrive.

As farangs are constantly told - Thai politics is for Thai ONLY keep out of it.

Observers observe. They are not shields or interlopers. There are plenty of observers all across Bangkok

with cameras and video and more than enough means to observe what's happening. Place is crawling with reporters.

This line didn't work with the UN, Weng got some boilerplate comments, but not one move towards stepping in.

This will not get a better response either. EU will state some group speak platitudes and wait for the commerce to recommence.

The EU clearly will see this as a non-peaceful group taking a city center hostage,

by violent means and intimidation... they will not likely want to take THAT side of things,

and thus remain neutral.

And if you have ever seen a Davos Meeting showing the external protests getting closed down,

you would not be surprised at how this protest can be handled in EU terms.

When the red side started shooting all bets were off.

Edited April 29, 2010 by animatic

[jonclark]

I agree with part of what you say Jon - that the PT & Dems have to work together.

I don't agree with the 'groundswell' of support for the reds/PT though. How do you measure that ?

I didn't say there was a groundswell of support. I measure the lack of support, by the fact that the numbers boasted about simply didn't materialize. Of course people will say they were prevented from going to Bkk, fair enough, but why didn't we see large numbers in other provinces like Khon Kaen etc. demostrating, if they were prevented from going to Bkk. As opposed to a few hundreds or thousands turining up every now and then.

BTW love this bit from the daily update -

BPbreakingnews: Reds to petition European Union UDD to ask EU to supervise demonstration

Hiding behind farangs are we lads - Such courage from the leaders - Maybe you can ask the EU to bring some MacD's when they arrive.

As farangs are constantly told - Thai politics is for Thai ONLY keep out of it.

Observers observe. They are not shields or interlopers. There are plenty of observers all across Bangkok

with cameras and video and more than enough means to observe what's happening. Place is crawling with reporters.

This line didn't work with the UN, Weng got some boilerplate comments, but not one move towards stepping in.

This will not get a better response either. EU will state some group speak platitudes and wait for the commerce to recommence.

The EU clearly will see this as a non-peaceful group taking a city center hostage,

by violent means and intimidation... they will not likely want to take THAT side of things,

and thus remain neutral.

And if you have ever seen a Davos Meeting showing the external protests getting closed down,

you would not be surprised at how this protest can be handled in EU terms.

Exactly

BTW wonder who would pick up the tab for the supervisors should the arrive - EU taxpayers - They supervisors ain't going to be cheap thats for sure probably $ 2'000 each per day (danger money, expenses and hotel etc.) over a 30 day period of supervision for say 10 supervisors - 10X30x 2000 = (hang on where's my calculator...um.....shit run out of fingers.... ) $600'000. [0r 18 million baht in old money] Get your check book out Taksin!!

Or are they expecting them to turn up for free?

[animatic]

Reds are fighting for the thing that so many stupid farangs who have written on this website take for granted in their home countries: democracy. For those who think it is purely about Thaksin's interests, you are so wrong (although, of course, he is the leader of the red shirts).

The real coward in all this is the Thai government, which was not elected by The People and is, therefore, not prepared to hold an election because they know they have absolutely no chance of winning. And why do they have absolutely no chance of winning? Because they know The People would not vote for them. And that, my friends, is why the red shirts are fighting: let The People decide who should run the country.

So the Red Shirts are fighting over some future event they have no evidence will ever occur?

Hey, let me ask you this. Can a countyr have a democratic society without the rule of law? I ask because I note the sympathies of the police force are with the Red protesters but at the same time the police force is an ineffective, corrupt and oppressive organization; against the poor in particular. That doesn't strike you as odd or questionable?

Since Abhisit has been NOT cooperating about the head of the police list

and making the Pay For Promotions issue a big deal, most police see him

as an impediment to their career path. No wonder the police are siding against him.

[pornsasi]

I agree with part of what you say Jon - that the PT & Dems have to work together.

I don't agree with the 'groundswell' of support for the reds/PT though. How do you measure that ?

I didn't say there was a groundswell of support. I measure the lack of support, by the fact that the numbers boasted about simply didn't materialize. Of course people will say they were prevented from going to Bkk, fair enough, but why didn't we see large numbers in other provinces like Khon Kaen etc. demostrating, if they were prevented from going to Bkk. As opposed to a few hundreds or thousands turining up every now and then.

BTW love this bit from the daily update -

BPbreakingnews: Reds to petition European Union UDD to ask EU to supervise demonstration

Hiding behind farangs are we lads - Such courage from the leaders - Maybe you can ask the EU to bring some MacD's when they arrive.

As farangs are constantly told - Thai politics is for Thai ONLY keep out of it.

Observers observe. They are not shields or interlopers. There are plenty of observers all across Bangkok

with cameras and video and more than enough means to observe what's happening. Place is crawling with reporters.

This line didn't work with the UN, Weng got some boilerplate comments, but not one move towards stepping in.

This will not get a better response either. EU will state some group speak platitudes and wait for the commerce to recommence.

The EU clearly will see this as a non-peaceful group taking a city center hostage,

by violent means and intimidation... they will not likely want to take THAT side of things,

and thus remain neutral.

And if you have ever seen a Davos Meeting showing the external protests getting closed down,

you would not be surprised at how this protest can be handled in EU terms.

When the red side started shooting all bets were off.

The red side did NOT START the shooting and you know it

[Zolt]

Basically the government has 3 options

- Negociated solution. That means an election within 3-6 months at most.

- Disperse the protests by force.

- Sit it out.

I just wish they'd choose one and be over with.

[hammered]

Basically the government has 3 options

- Negociated solution. That means an election within 3-6 months at most.

- Disperse the protests by force.

- Sit it out.

I just wish they'd choose one and be over with.

Maybe they chose 3 but havent told anyone

[animatic]

Any group or person who takes their babies and young children into a potentially violent zone such as the occupied area at Ratchaprasong is either a coward, mentally defective, or a parent who guilty of child abuse. And all this while the fat man runs away from a fight to dine on fried chicken in air conditioned comfort.

How about is a coward, mentally defective and parent guilty of child abuse?

All three apply in this instance.

[Zolt]

Since Abhisit has been NOT cooperating about the head of the police list

and making the Pay For Promotions issue a big deal, most police see him

as an impediment to their career path. No wonder the police are siding against him.

The prime minister trying to reform and clean up the police force? How... shocking! What business is it of his? He's only the head of the executive power...

[Tanaka]

Reds are fighting for the thing that so many stupid farangs who have written on this website take for granted in their home countries: democracy. For those who think it is purely about Thaksin's interests, you are so wrong (although, of course, he is the leader of the red shirts).

The real coward in all this is the Thai government, which was not elected by The People and is, therefore, not prepared to hold an election because they know they have absolutely no chance of winning. And why do they have absolutely no chance of winning? Because they know The People would not vote for them. And that, my friends, is why the red shirts are fighting: let The People decide who should run the country.

Did you just wake up? You don't seem to have a clue what this is all about. The present government was rightfully elected. They did propose to have the next election a year early to accommodate the terrorists but that was not accepted. The reds regret that today. What would you know to predict who would win an election?

The reds have one goal: to reinstate the fugitive criminal coward Toxin who has clearly stated that democracy is not on his agenda!

Furthermore, the red terrorists do not understand the meaning of the word democracy. To their leaders it means only that everything shall be as they want. If they lose an election, it is not democracy and they will fight to have it their way. Like now.

[way2muchcoffee]

Basically the government has 3 options

- Negociated solution. That means an election within 3-6 months at most.

- Disperse the protests by force.

- Sit it out.

I just wish they'd choose one and be over with.

The government seems to be trying all three.

1) Negotiations would be a top priority. This has been tried multiple times and has not reached a successful conclusion (obviously. Nevertheless the government and red shirt leaders should never close the door on discussion as that is the most healthy solution of all.

2) Sit it out. That's what the government has been doing, more or less. They have been trying to contain the situation. If negotiations cannot be achieved then this is the next best option, at least until such time as all sides are ready to talk.

3) The worst possible option. This will only inflame the situation and both the long and short-term consequences could be severe.

[pornsasi]

In France peasants attack police violently and vice versa during protest on subsidies over the price of tomatoes . Not protest over 40 years of neglect . I dont find the reds that violent in comparison , except for some of the "rambos" dialectic . But sure enough in Europe no one brings weapons with live bullets to a protest , thats beyond the pale

[brahmburgers]

Well that doesn't sit with the number of voters who voted Democrat versus PPP in the last election in which the Democrats edged the PPP in the percentage of voters. By all measures it is clear that the Democrats and the PPP share approximately equal support throughout the country. Now once the support from the coalition partners is factored in this government represents an overwhelming majority of the voters at 61%, compared to the mere 39% of the people who support PTP.

Evidently the red shirt leaders are incapable of realizing they represent only a minority voice as a percentage of the population, significant yes, but still a minority. Their inability to heed the fact that the vast majority of the population are not on their side shows just how un-democratic they really are.

Red Shirt leaders and Thaksin himself are experts at convoluting things in order to mislead. There a slew of basic facts, like the ones mentioned above, which are inconvenient for Reds to consider, because those facts don't back up their hot-headed rhetoric and treasonous activities.

As for 'democracy'. I asked openly, several hours ago, whether anyone could give an example of Reds using any democratic measures. Have the Reds used democratic methods in choosing their leaders? .....in setting policy? ......in anything they do collectively. Have they used any democratic policy to decide what type of food to eat, what types of weapons to use, whether to use fuel covered tires to barricade themselves downtown? Am still waiting for a non-flame answer.

[animatic]

I agree with part of what you say Jon - that the PT & Dems have to work together.

I don't agree with the 'groundswell' of support for the reds/PT though. How do you measure that ?

I didn't say there was a groundswell of support. I measure the lack of support, by the fact that the numbers boasted about simply didn't materialize. Of course people will say they were prevented from going to Bkk, fair enough, but why didn't we see large numbers in other provinces like Khon Kaen etc. demostrating, if they were prevented from going to Bkk. As opposed to a few hundreds or thousands turining up every now and then.

BTW love this bit from the daily update -

BPbreakingnews: Reds to petition European Union UDD to ask EU to supervise demonstration

Hiding behind farangs are we lads - Such courage from the leaders - Maybe you can ask the EU to bring some MacD's when they arrive.

As farangs are constantly told - Thai politics is for Thai ONLY keep out of it.

Observers observe. They are not shields or interlopers. There are plenty of observers all across Bangkok

with cameras and video and more than enough means to observe what's happening. Place is crawling with reporters.

This line didn't work with the UN, Weng got some boilerplate comments, but not one move towards stepping in.

This will not get a better response either. EU will state some group speak platitudes and wait for the commerce to recommence.

The EU clearly will see this as a non-peaceful group taking a city center hostage,

by violent means and intimidation... they will not likely want to take THAT side of things,

and thus remain neutral.

And if you have ever seen a Davos Meeting showing the external protests getting closed down,

you would not be surprised at how this protest can be handled in EU terms.

When the red side started shooting all bets were off.

The red side did NOT START the shooting and you know it

Keep saying that often, and maybe you can convince yourself...

that and maybe someone will believe you, if and or when you side wins, and writes the books.

Between now and then, the Ronins / black shirts working WITH the Reds started the shooting,

and that amounts to the same thing.

Edited April 29, 2010 by animatic