Isaan Governors Transferred To "inactive" Posts

[toptuan]

News Item today: "Governors of Khon Kaen, Ubon, Udon Thani, Mukdahan provinces transferred to inactive post in Bkk for failing to protect provincial halls from Reds arsonists" /Nation

And just exactly what does that mean? Some cushy desk job with continued salary and long-term benefits?

I'm afraid that in most other countries these officials would, at the least, have been fired for incompetence. At the most, tried for collusion with the rebels.

This kind of "punishment" does not encourage the needed change in a bureaucracy which favors corruption, collusion, nepotism, cronyism, and all the other abuses of power inherent in this government.

[gotlost]

Always promote incompetency.

[TexasRanger]

They are civil servants not bouncers, sheesh!

[Who, me ?]

They are civil servants not bouncers, sheesh!

When one gets this kind of job, he should weigh the pros and cons.....

An army general is not fighting at the front, but if the battle is lost, he has to respond for it.

Governors are not bouncers, but they have authority to order "bouncers" to act........

[rfukata]

The governor of Ubon should be jailed for the abuse of power, resulting in the shooting death of a innocent 9 year boy.

[Jingthing]

That's the way its done here. Inactive posts means the doghouse.

[thurien]

That's the way its done here. Inactive posts means the doghouse.

At least, "inactive post" means no way anymore enjoying all the goodies of

such a post incl. the constant flow of graft funds

[thunder30101]

Does this mean the govenor of bangkok will be demoted ? hel_l the red shirts told them they were going to burn down the shopping area and they didnt protect it. What a double standard this is.

[doggie888888]

HAHAHA, what about the "failure" of PM to protect innocent lives (of the non colored shirt variety) in BKK and by all accounts, even more wanton destruction in downtown BKK? I don't know how it all works in Thailand, but do governors have access to armed personnel or defense forces or police...or are they expected to burn with the building, without the luxury of being able to hole-up in some army bunker somewhere?

Before anyone calls them "incompetent" I wonder if the job description of governor includes "protecting town hall from rioting armed mobs"?

Sounds more like oppportunistic scapegoating to me

[toptuan]

That's the way its done here. Inactive posts means the doghouse.

At least, "inactive post" means no way anymore enjoying all the goodies of

such a post incl. the constant flow of graft funds

I know this is terribly traumatic to someone used to being on the receiving end of graft for most of their political life, but by international standards, is this the way to penalize a captain of a ship who didn't even put up a fight against the burning, looting pirates?

That's my point.

[Diablo Bob]

That's the way its done here. Inactive posts means the doghouse.

At least, "inactive post" means no way anymore enjoying all the goodies of

such a post incl. the constant flow of graft funds

I know this is terribly traumatic to someone used to being on the receiving end of graft for most of their political life, but by international standards, is this the way to penalize a captain of a ship who didn't even put up a fight against the burning, looting pirates?

That's my point.

Bad analogy, the US Navy realistically retired the Captain of the USS Pueblo (Lloyd Bucher) for giving up his ship to North Korea in 1968. He remained on duty in San Diego counting pencils for the remainder of his Naval career.

[toptuan]

That's the way its done here. Inactive posts means the doghouse.

At least, "inactive post" means no way anymore enjoying all the goodies of

such a post incl. the constant flow of graft funds

I know this is terribly traumatic to someone used to being on the receiving end of graft for most of their political life, but by international standards, is this the way to penalize a captain of a ship who didn't even put up a fight against the burning, looting pirates?

That's my point.

Bad analogy, the US Navy realistically retired the Captain of the USS Pueblo (Lloyd Bucher) for giving up his ship to North Korea in 1968. He remained on duty in San Diego counting pencils for the remainder of his Naval career.

The weakness of analogies--you can always find an example that fits or doesnt. So, you found a second poor response to someone who gave up without a fight.

My point is---is it the right response? How about in the case of collusion with the attackers, if that was the case?

[thunder30101]

Collusion ??? guilty before trial is what your saying ? Im not on either side of this mess but this is just another can of gas on the fire of many the current goverment is throwing around now. I can see this mess is just going to get worse with the current group in office.

[toptuan]

...guilty before trial is what your saying ?

There's a logic leap! No, I would advocate just the opposite. If collusion was proven by a criminal court, then I would propose these guys be treated like any other convicted red-shirt terrorist. No cushy desk job in Bangkok with continued salary, retirement benefits, health insurance, etc. Jail time.

[klikster]

They are civil servants not bouncers, sheesh!

Governors are not bouncers, but they have authority to order "bouncers" to act........

Seems the "governors" in BKK had difficulty getting their "bouncers" to act. Double standard? Nah.

[klikster]

If collusion was proven by a criminal court, then I would propose these guys be treated like any other convicted red-shirt terrorist.

Can you supply a list of red shirts convicted of terrorism? Can you supply a list of red shirts being tried on terrorism charges? Can you provide a legal definition of 'terrorism'?

The U.N. can't.

[Fookhaht]

Can you supply a list of red shirts convicted of terrorism? Can you supply a list of red shirts being tried on terrorism charges? Can you provide a legal definition of 'terrorism'?

The U.N. can't.

Maybe you would be happier with more "benign" terms such as killers, bombers, hate-mongers, arsonists, and looters? Do you think we could find any red shirts which might fit those terms?

Edited June 7, 2010 by Fookhaht

[klikster]

Can you supply a list of red shirts convicted of terrorism? Can you supply a list of red shirts being tried on terrorism charges? Can you provide a legal definition of 'terrorism'?

The U.N. can't.

Maybe you would be happier with more "benign" terms such as killers, bombers, hate-mongers, arsonists, and looters? Do you think we could find any red shirts which might fit those terms?

I think I can find a newbie poster who might well be classed a "hate-monger".

[citizen33]

Surely we have to try to use language carefully on the Isaan forum, if only because - if we used the term 'terrorist' as readily as those on the news cuttings forum - we'd be applying labels to some of our neighbours that we know are plain wrong. In situations like the one that we've just been through there is always a battle for definitions. Even (and especially) if we don't want to take sides, we have to be aware of the loaded nature of current debates. Personally I believe that the majority of the people of Isaan involved in the protests did so for honorable reasons. Some were paid, but most believed they had a cause (pity about the leader many follow). I resent the use of the term 'rebels' for people whose main demand was an election. Whether local government officials acted properly needs to be considered on a case by case basis.

[klikster]

Surely we have to try to use language carefully on the Isaan forum, if only because - if we used the term 'terrorist' as readily as those on the news cuttings forum - we'd be applying labels to some of our neighbours that we know are plain wrong. In situations like the one that we've just been through there is always a battle for definitions. Even (and especially) if we don't want to take sides, we have to be aware of the loaded nature of current debates. Personally I believe that the majority of the people of Isaan involved in the protests did so for honorable reasons. Some were paid, but most believed they had a cause (pity about the leader many follow). I resent the use of the term 'rebels' for people whose main demand was an election. Whether local government officials acted properly needs to be considered on a case by case basis.

@citizen33 - You said it better that I could have.

Besides the points you made so well, objectivity seems much better than subjectivity in these types of discussions.

I know a couple of dozen folks who are in agreement with the original "red shirt" cause. Not one of them is a terrorist. Not one of them shot anyone. Not one of them burned down property.

It is so easy for shallow thinkers and knee-jerk pundits to label everyone who thinks the current government should change as "red shirts", "terrorists", etc.

[Fookhaht]

Surely we have to try to use language carefully on the Isaan forum, if only because - if we used the term 'terrorist' as readily as those on the news cuttings forum - we'd be applying labels to some of our neighbours that we know are plain wrong. In situations like the one that we've just been through there is always a battle for definitions. Even (and especially) if we don't want to take sides, we have to be aware of the loaded nature of current debates. Personally I believe that the majority of the people of Isaan involved in the protests did so for honorable reasons. Some were paid, but most believed they had a cause (pity about the leader many follow). I resent the use of the term 'rebels' for people whose main demand was an election. Whether local government officials acted properly needs to be considered on a case by case basis.

@citizen33 - You said it better that I could have.

Besides the points you made so well, objectivity seems much better than subjectivity in these types of discussions.

I know a couple of dozen folks who are in agreement with the original "red shirt" cause. Not one of them is a terrorist. Not one of them shot anyone. Not one of them burned down property.

It is so easy for shallow thinkers and knee-jerk pundits to label everyone who thinks the current government should change as "red shirts", "terrorists", etc.

Your points are well-taken, mates.

I'd like to narrow my meaning of "red shirts" to refer specifically to those who engaged in acts of violence & hate-mongering in the recent Bangkok troubles. I don't hate your peace-loving Isaan neighbors who may sympathize with some of the more legitimate grievances of the movement, but who do not resort to these acts of violence to achieve their ends.

It's this violent group I refer to when I suggested that if the courts find collusion with the Isaan governors, then those governors should share the similar heavy hand of justice.

[Fookhaht]

Can you supply a list of red shirts convicted of terrorism? Can you supply a list of red shirts being tried on terrorism charges? Can you provide a legal definition of 'terrorism'?

The U.N. can't.

Maybe you would be happier with more "benign" terms such as killers, bombers, hate-mongers, arsonists, and looters? Do you think we could find any red shirts which might fit those terms?

I think I can find a newbie poster who might well be classed a "hate-monger".

And I bet I can find even more old-timers who could own that moniker as well! (Not necessarily on the Isaan forum, of course. Ahem.)