I am very happy to have a debate on a subject and to be proven wrong

Read these articles with an open mind.

i read them and understand the position of israel and it makes sense however i have these questions for anyone that cares to answer them

1.) Obviously the world is turning against Israel we even see cracks in the US realationship and the UKs view, Israel must be doing something wrong for this to be happening what do you think that is

2.) I read about the blockade and it also makes sense however when we find out what is on the list of banned import items it kinda changes the reasoning of why Israel is

implementing the blockade Why are they banning stuff like cookies chocolate and childrens toys herbs spices, it makes them look bad we can all understand they want to keep weapons out but lets face it if the turkish ship had not tried get through the blockade we would not know of all the ridicuous items banned (well I would not of known) and if they had gone to Israel as requested by Israel and had them inspect the shipment would they not of confiscated the chocolate and cookies herbs spices as banned items ?

They only lifeted the banned items once it was publicised it may sound trivial but this adds the the resentment of israel and implys that israels blockade is not just a weapons Blockade but also a way of depriving the normal palestinians of basic goods.

If the list that was publicised contained only items that were banned such as just rockets, arms, stuff to make bombs etc etc I would not have a problem at all and would be on Israels side but dont you pro israleis understand you are turning the world against israel when they find out about ridiculous things like banned childrens toys and chocolate.

I think in the past Israel has been able to run its war without the world knowing much about what they do but with the advent of the internet camera phones and better tv coverage I beleive its that thats changing the tide of opinion where israel is concerned, normal Palestinians are now arming themselves with video cameras to document the actions of the IDF within palestine.

What do you think Israel has to do to stop the rot and turn the tide of opinion or dont they care about opinion

1.) Obviously the world is turning against Israel we even see cracks in the US relationship and the UKs view, Israel must be doing something wrong for this to be happening what do you think that is

2.) I read about the blockade and it also makes sense however when we find out what is on the list of banned import items it kinda changes the reasoning of why Israel is

implementing the blockade Why are they banning stuff like cookies chocolate and children's toys herbs spices,

1) Public opinion is fickle and the left like to back what they consider to be the underdog which is the "Palestinians" because they have worked hard to make their conditions worse and worse. Somehow the liberal press seem to forget that they have put themselves in this position.

"Twenty-one Israeli settlements were dismantled; even the bodies of Israelis buried in Gaza were removed. After a deeply flawed 2006 election encouraged by the United States, there was in 2007 essentially a coup in Gaza by the terrorist organization Hamas. So now Israel has on its western border, 44 miles from Tel Aviv, an entity dedicated to Israel's destruction, collaborative with Iran and possessing a huge arsenal of rockets".

George F. Will

As far as the "U.S" position goes, Obama is a PC ninny with radical advisers and with radical sympathies. Very few Americans agree with him and most likely he will be tossed in the next election. There is no real split with the U.S.

The other factor is a lot of Israel haters are anti-Semites, but know better than to admit it, but between them and the left, it has become very fashionable to condemn everything they do and to expect Israel not to defend themselves.

2) As far as the banned items go, of course Israel is trying to make life difficult for the "Palestinians" as they elected a group dedicated to the destruction of Israel to represent them. It is like when your teacher used to take away class privileges to pressure the troublemakers. Another thing is that some of the banned item were used by the Hamas terrorists to make bombs and bunkers. However, until very recently, Egypt also had a blockade on these items and no one seems to care about that. In fact, Egypt only dropped it shortly before Israel did.

All Israel can do is stay the course and ignore those that would see them destroyed. It is easy for people who do not care to tell someone in danger just to ignore it and it will go away but, only a complete idiot would listen to them.

"The creation of Israel did not involve the destruction of a Palestinian state, there having been no such state since the Romans arrived. And if the Jewish percentage of the world's population were today what it was when the Romans ruled Palestine, there would be 200 million Jews. After a uniquely hazardous passage through two millennia without a homeland, there are 13 million Jews.

In the 62 years since this homeland was founded on one-sixth of 1 percent of the land of what is carelessly and inaccurately called "the Arab world," Israelis have never known an hour of real peace. Patronizing American lectures on the reality of risks and the desirableness of peace, which once were merely fatuous, are now obscene".

George F. Will

1. The media tide turned against Israel when Obama took office. He seems anti-Israel, which then turns into a feeding frenzy. The American electorate did it to Israel when they elected Obama.

2. Google "Shopping in Gaza" and see what you come up with. Here are a few links I found:

http://travel.mapsofworld.com/palestine/gaza-tours/

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/world/middleeast/22rafah.html?_r=1

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/as-the-israeli-blockade-eases-gaza-goes-shopping-2035432.html

http://www.uncoverage.net/2010/07/heartbreak-of-gaza-another-luxury-shopping-mall/

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100718/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_hamas_crackdown

_______________________________________________________

Here is a quote found in the link following. It is editorial in nature and I DID NOT VERIFY the veracity of his statistics.

"The Obama Admin. has given hundreds of Millions of Dollars to Gaza this Year, most of which, likely is earmarked for military weaponry. Also EU governments, just days ago, pledged tens of millions of Euros to Gaza as well. Gaza today has a literacy rate of 91.9%, life expectancy of 72.23, and infant mortality of 17.71 per thousand births. The same statistics are much lower for Egypt and other Arab nations. By comparison, flotilla sponsor-Turkey, has a literacy rate of 88.7%, life expectancy of 72.23 and infant mortality of 24.84. Maybe Gaza should send a humanitarian “aid” flotilla to Turkey, or perhaps Egypt?

But the real question we should be asking is why western governments are pouring boatloads of taxpayer money into Gaza, which obviously does not need it, amidst a worldwide economic crisis, while leaving millions of Africans starving and dying from famine and disease each year.

Also, why is the BBC, the New York Times and other western media giants deliberately misrepresenting the supposed “humanitarian” situation in Gaza, which obviously is not in crisis? There are not many new shopping malls opening in Darfur these days.

_______________________________________________________

The link with pictures: http://www.startribune.com/yourvoices/99070819.html

1. The media tide turned against Israel when Obama took office. He seems anti-Israel, which then turns into a feeding frenzy. The American electorate did it to Israel when they elected Obama.

2. Google "Shopping in Gaza" and see what you come up with. Here are a few links I found:

http://travel.mapsof...ine/gaza-tours/

http://www.nytimes.c...rafah.html?_r=1

http://www.independe...ng-2035432.html

http://www.uncoverag...-shopping-mall/

http://news.yahoo.co...hamas_crackdown

_______________________________________________________

Here is a quote found in the link following. It is editorial in nature and I DID NOT VERIFY the veracity of his statistics.

"The Obama Admin. has given hundreds of Millions of Dollars to Gaza this Year, most of which, likely is earmarked for military weaponry. Also EU governments, just days ago, pledged tens of millions of Euros to Gaza as well. Gaza today has a literacy rate of 91.9%, life expectancy of 72.23, and infant mortality of 17.71 per thousand births. The same statistics are much lower for Egypt and other Arab nations. By comparison, flotilla sponsor-Turkey, has a literacy rate of 88.7%, life expectancy of 72.23 and infant mortality of 24.84. Maybe Gaza should send a humanitarian "aid" flotilla to Turkey, or perhaps Egypt?

But the real question we should be asking is why western governments are pouring boatloads of taxpayer money into Gaza, which obviously does not need it, amidst a worldwide economic crisis, while leaving millions of Africans starving and dying from famine and disease each year.

Also, why is the BBC, the New York Times and other western media giants deliberately misrepresenting the supposed "humanitarian" situation in Gaza, which obviously is not in crisis? There are not many new shopping malls opening in Darfur these days.

_______________________________________________________

The link with pictures: http://www.startribu...s/99070819.html

"The media tide turned when Obama took office". Hmmm, coincidentally that was also the time that Israel blew the crap (literally) out of thousands of Palestinian women and children in retaliation for a few dozen near-defunct rockets landing in empty fields. I wonder which of those coincidental events was the real reason for the turning of the tide?

You did well to emphasise that you have not verified the statistics. Let me add also the author of that editorial piece; We wouldn't want to think the piece was unbiased, would we?

Gary Fine

Biblical researcher, writer

Gary Fine is a biblical researcher and writer, specializing in topics specific to ancient Israel. He is a retired Air Force captain, a lifelong Minneapolis resident and a graduate of the University of Minnesota. Fine is an individual advocate for a strong America, a secure Israel, and a strong American-Israel partnership.

So, Gaza has a shopping mall...with a 2nd floor with 8 shops!!!! Wow!!!! 1.4 million people have a shopping mall. By gosh they're lucky! Those Dafurians don't have that!. Think of those in Dafur and forget about Israel's crimes.

I wonder how many Gazans have any money to spend at that mall, and I wonder what the prices are like once those luxuries have been smuggled through the tunnels.

"The media tide turned when Obama took office". Hmmm, coincidentally that was also the time that Israel blew the crap (literally) out of thousands of Palestinian women and children in retaliation for a few dozen near-defunct rockets landing in empty fields. I wonder which of those coincidental events was the real reason for the turning of the tide?

You did well to emphasise that you have not verified the statistics. Let me add also the author of that editorial piece; We wouldn't want to think the piece was unbiased, would we?

Gary Fine

Biblical researcher, writer

Gary Fine is a biblical researcher and writer, specializing in topics specific to ancient Israel. He is a retired Air Force captain, a lifelong Minneapolis resident and a graduate of the University of Minnesota. Fine is an individual advocate for a strong America, a secure Israel, and a strong American-Israel partnership.

So, Gaza has a shopping mall...with a 2nd floor with 8 shops!!!! Wow!!!! 1.4 million people have a shopping mall. By gosh they're lucky! Those Dafurians don't have that!. Think of those in Dafur and forget about Israel's crimes.

I wonder how many Gazans have any money to spend at that mall, and I wonder what the prices are like once those luxuries have been smuggled through the tunnels.

"Neither irony or sarcasm is argument."

Samuel Butler

"The media tide turned when Obama took office". Hmmm, coincidentally that was also the time that Israel blew the crap (literally) out of thousands of Palestinian women and children in retaliation for a few dozen near-defunct rockets landing in empty fields. I wonder which of those coincidental events was the real reason for the turning of the tide?

You did well to emphasise that you have not verified the statistics. Let me add also the author of that editorial piece; We wouldn't want to think the piece was unbiased, would we?

Gary Fine

Biblical researcher, writer

Gary Fine is a biblical researcher and writer, specializing in topics specific to ancient Israel. He is a retired Air Force captain, a lifelong Minneapolis resident and a graduate of the University of Minnesota. Fine is an individual advocate for a strong America, a secure Israel, and a strong American-Israel partnership.

So, Gaza has a shopping mall...with a 2nd floor with 8 shops!!!! Wow!!!! 1.4 million people have a shopping mall. By gosh they're lucky! Those Dafurians don't have that!. Think of those in Dafur and forget about Israel's crimes.

I wonder how many Gazans have any money to spend at that mall, and I wonder what the prices are like once those luxuries have been smuggled through the tunnels.

"Neither irony or sarcasm is argument."

Samuel Butler

Yes they are. Perhaps not 150 odd years ago, but our language and linguistic mentality have evolved since then.

Excellent post!

Hi UG, before I answer HB's post, would you like to tell me why you think it is excellent?

I would really like to know why you think it is excellent.

But this is not good enough for some die-hard fanatics and there are still bombings, shootings, other attacks in the province.

Some people will never be satisfied until they see their 'enemies' totally destroyed. There is no negotiating with them. No reasoning. Nothing you give them is enough.

This sums it up.

International Waters or not, it doesn't matter when the ships approaching have ill intentions.

I agree wholeheartedly.

However, I don't call intending to give deprived children some chocolate and much-needed medicine an "ill intention".

If the Israeli's had not deprived these people of basic human rights and simple pleasures in the first place, there never would have been a need for the ship to make the attempt.

I don't recall anyone being able to adequately explain why nutmeg, pencils, chocolate, dates, medicine, etc should be so rigourously blocked from reaching Gaza.

It has been explained here at length. The several other aid ships were boarded, searched, at let on their way. The last one was prepared to attack the boarding party, causing a scandal trying to force the Israelis to end the blockade so that they could to get into Gaza what they really wanted - weapons. Why not ask why Hamas wouldn't let the aid through when it finally made it to Gaza? They withheld it from "their own people" out of some sort of protest.

1.) Obviously the world is turning against Israel we even see cracks in the US realationship and the UKs view, Israel must be doing something wrong for this to be happening what do you think that is

Ever since Barak Hussein Obama became president there have also been cracks in the US-UK relationship.The UK must be doing something wrong, any ideas what?

1.) Obviously the world is turning against Israel we even see cracks in the US realationship and the UKs view, Israel must be doing something wrong for this to be happening what do you think that is

Ever since Barak Hussein Obama became president there have also been cracks in the US-UK relationship.The UK must be doing something wrong, any ideas what?

Nothings going wrong its simple really, we got rid of that MUPPET PUPPET Blair and Brown and now have someone with some Balls who recognizes that GAZA is a prison camp and Brits has to distance themselves from being seen like they were before as a complete PUPPET with Bush's hand stuck up the ass of blair working him from behind, and it makes complete sense for Britain to take a hard look at how close they want to be associated with Israel and thats not as close as before.

So nothing is going wrong at all

... GAZA is a prison camp

If so, Hamas and those that elected them deserve the blame for that. - they might consider not shooting rockets into Israel.

Brits has to distance themselves from being seen like they were before as a complete PUPPET with Bush's hand stuck up the ass of blair working him from behind, and it makes complete sense for Britain to take a hard look at how close they want to be associated with Israel

The split between the UK and the US has little to do with Israel.

Do you make this nonsense up as you go along? Don't answer that, it is pretty obvious.

Brits has to distance themselves from being seen like they were before as a complete PUPPET with Bush's hand stuck up the ass of blair working him from behind, and it makes complete sense for Britain to take a hard look at how close they want to be associated with Israel

The split between the UK and the US has little to do with Israel.

Do you make this nonsense up as you go along? Don't answer that, it is pretty obvious.

well obviously UG you only think you are right based on your posts which is fine and its your right however I was reffering to Camerons comment that Gaza is a Prison camp which certainly indicates a different standpoint form the Birtish side.

... GAZA is a prison camp

If so, Hamas and those that elected them deserve the blame for that. - they might consider not shooting rockets into Israel.

Base on your posts UG I beleive you are jewish (not in any way an insult) because you seem to be as radical in your views as your opposition meaning unlike myself that is willing to see both sides you only see one.

Why does anyone who's losing an argument about Israel always have to sink to calling the other party Jewish?

I was raised a Roman Catholic - although I am not sure that I still believe - and if you think that you are open-minded you are deluding yourself. You are just as stubborn about this issue as I am, but, judging by your strictly mudslinging posts, you know know a lot less about it (not in any way an insult). I have come by my beliefs by studying history.

By the way, loads of Jewish people are knee-jerk liberals who do not care if Israel is pushed into the sea, or not.

Why does anyone who's losing an argument about Israel always have to sink to calling the other party Jewish?

I was raised a Roman Catholic - although I am not sure that I still believe - and if you think that you are open-minded you are deluding yourself. You are just as stubborn about this issue as I am, but, judging by your strictly mudslinging posts, you know know a lot less about it (not in any way an insult). I have come by my beliefs by studying history.

By the way, loads of Jewish people are knee-jerk liberals who do not care if Israel is pushed into the sea, or not.

Just saw you edited your post so have to come back and say SORRY UG not losing the argument at all all the proof I have posted has not been addressed

And like i said saying you were Jewish was not meant to be an insult in any way and the reason I said that was that you now post that calling someone jewish is an insult,

HUH

If you call me a christian or roman catholic should I be offended if I am one NO and that was my point.

Calling someone jewish is not an insult in any way IS IT ??????? if it is how do you refer to someone thats Jewish ???

UG I am more open minded than yourself

At least in some of my posts I have shown that I understand Israels point of view and even said I would support them in certain instances Iran for example, however you have not shown any such thing where Palestinians are concerned and only tired to justify the obvious mal treatment of the Palestinians by the IDF by saying they deserve the way they are being treated.

I did not say that calling someone Jewish is an insult. I said that people who post nothing but posts about things that Israel has had to do because they are at war - and almost nothing about similar things the "Palestinians" have done - usually resort eventually to claiming that the other poster is Jewish, because they have nothing else to support their point of view.

That describes you perfectly - no matter how much you would like to convince us - and yourself - otherwise.

I did not say that calling someone Jewish is an insult. I said that people who post nothing but posts about things that Israel has had to do because they are at war - and almost nothing about similar things the "Palestinians" have done - usually resort eventually to claiming that the other poster is Jewish, because they have nothing else to support their point of view.

That describes you perfectly - no matter how much you would like to convince us otherwise.

Well I will leave it at that UG before I think you are insulting me and that would not be good

As for support re read the thread and you will see plenty of inexcusable videos of my point of view

EXACTLY. That is all you base your point of view on and you do no research to find out if the are biased or outright lies or why they happened and you never post anything about all the "inexcusable" Arab atrocities. You have already made up your mind without any other "evidence".

I have to admit that I am impatient with posters who are so opinionated about something that they know very little about - usually because they are parroting what they hear from other people.

EXACTLY. That is all you base your point of view on and you do no research to find out if the are biased or outright lies or why they happened and you never post anything about all the "inexcusable" Arab atrocities. You have already made up your mind without any other "evidence".

I have to admit that I am impatient with posters who are so opinionated about something that they know very little about - usually because they are parroting what they hear from other people.

Sorry UG I see absolute no reason for a trained IDF soldgier to beat a child NO REASON WHATSOVER the child had no bomb strapped to him nothing it was just pure abuse plain and simple how is that particular video biased, it certainly happened as you can actually see it if your eyes are open and theres NO EXCUSE why it happened.

Any other military in the world that has video of that kind of child abuse the abuser would be shamed and prosecuted THERE IS NO EXCUSE POSSIBLE TO JUSTIFY CHILD ABUSE.

I have already said in my past posts that i have no love for Muslims or Palestinians and dont excuse any of there Arab atrocities LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN SO YOU UNDERSTAND i have no love and no excuse for the ARABS atrocities what i am saying is the way Israel behaves is unacceptable as part of the International community that is required to abide by certian rules.

If israel acted correctly then I would not have a problem however NOT ONE Israeli soldgier has ever been prosecuted for there actions

I completely understand that they are only selective videos however when the UK and the US was caught abusing Iraqui prisoners they were prosecuted were they not the US and IK governments aplogised for the actiuons fo there military and did not condone it

Israel does not do that

I dont understand why you dont understand my point or you just dont want to see it.

If israel acted correctly then I would not have a problem however NOT ONE Israeli soldgier has ever been prosecuted for there actions

This is exactly what I mean. You just make up things that have no basis in reality. LOTS of soldiers have been prosecuted and just to prove you are wrong here is ONE example. THAT is why I take little notice of your so-called "evidence".

IDF soldier arrested after caught on tape beating Palestinian

Soldier allegedly threatened Bil'in man that he would end up like the protestor shot and killed by IDF. By Amiria Hass

An Israel Defense Forces soldier was arrested Tuesday on suspicion of beating a Palestinian resident during a nighttime raid in the West Bank village of Bil'in, Israeli activists against the separation fence said.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/

If israel acted correctly then I would not have a problem however NOT ONE Israeli soldgier has ever been prosecuted for there actions

This is exactly what I mean. You just make up things that have no basis in reality. LOTS of soldiers have been prosecuted and just to prove you are wrong here is ONE example. THAT is why I take little notice of your so-called "evidence".

IDF soldier arrested after caught on tape beating Palestinian

Soldier allegedly threatened Bil'in man that he would end up like the protestor shot and killed by IDF. By Amiria Hass

An Israel Defense Forces soldier was arrested Tuesday on suspicion of beating a Palestinian resident during a nighttime raid in the West Bank village of Bil'in, Israeli activists against the separation fence said.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/

GREAT dont you think its better to educate us INORAMOUES by posting evidence such as this showing Israel does on occasion prosecute its own Instead of coming across that you condone it and indicating that they deserve everthing that get cause they asked for it cause thats the sort of attitude that breed resentment.

No child deserves to be beaten for any reason.

BBC's flotilla film slammed as 'biased'

The documentary's critics, angry the film wasn't as hostile to Israel as they thought it should be, are organizing protests. Here's why:

Using previously unseen video footage from the IDF and confiscated passenger tapes, mostly recorded by members of a group called Cultures of Resistance, the program concluded that the main aim of the activists had not been to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza, but rather to orchestrate a political act designed to put pressure on Israel and the international community.

The program also concluded that the Israeli commandos encountered a violent, premeditated attack by a hardcore group of activists organized by IHH members. Nine Turkish nationals were killed by the commandos after they came under attack when boarding the

Mavi Marmara

.

Meanwhile, two more Gaza-bound flotillas are reportedly soon to be on their way from Lebanon and Algeria.

BBC vindicates Israeli soldiers.

Red shirts of the sea. They were fishing for martyrs for pure propaganda purposes just like the red shirts. Sadly their ploy worked better for them than the red shirts because so much of the world hates both Israel AND Jews.

BBC's flotilla film slammed as 'biased'

The documentary's critics, angry the film wasn't as hostile to Israel as they thought it should be, are organizing protests. Here's why:

Using previously unseen video footage from the IDF and confiscated passenger tapes, mostly recorded by members of a group called Cultures of Resistance, the program concluded that the main aim of the activists had not been to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza, but rather to orchestrate a political act designed to put pressure on Israel and the international community.

The program also concluded that the Israeli commandos encountered a violent, premeditated attack by a hardcore group of activists organized by IHH members. Nine Turkish nationals were killed by the commandos after they came under attack when boarding the

Mavi Marmara

.

Meanwhile, two more Gaza-bound flotillas are reportedly soon to be on their way from Lebanon and Algeria.

BBC vindicates Israeli soldiers.

Red shirts of the sea. They were fishing for martyrs for pure propaganda purposes just like the red shirts. Sadly their ploy worked better for them than the red shirts because so much of the world hates both Israel AND Jews.

As UG would say they bring it on themselves

Must be a reason if you think most of the world hates Israel and Jews the whole world is not arabs and since I know nothing on the subject pray tell me why

As UG would say they bring it on themselves

Must be a reason if you think most of the world hates Israel and Jews the whole world is not arabs and since I know nothing on the subject pray tell me why

What kind of antisemitic tripe are you selling? That Jews deserved all the persecution over the centuries? That's classic, dude.

There are only about 12 million Jews left. Hitler killed 6 million. I recently read a projection that if Jews had not been murdered over the centuries there would now be 200 million Jews, not 12 million. Still not much compared to major religious groups.

I won't even entertain "answering" your disgusting antisemitic question. The only answer is that you need to put down your worn out copy of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion and hang out with some cool Jewboys preferably Texas Jewboys (the best kind) who will set you straight about your pathetic prejudices.

Ok, let’s try to approach this issue in a different way, let’s dissect statements and claims made by both parties involved in the issue.

- Israel claimed it acted out of self defense

- The “Activists” claimed they were on a humanitarian mission and were attacked in international waters were no state or country has any claim

(Under International law no state has the right to attack a peaceful convoy, more later).

- Israel assumes that the blockade of Gaza is justified, and no humanitarian crisis exists in Gaza. And as Israel is at war with Hamas the interception was justified.

Under section two of the San Remo manual on international law (which is applicable to armed conflicts at sea), it states that a blockade is a legal way of warfare. Israel felt these boats would be breaching the blockade and was therefore under article 98 legally allowed to enter those ships. (so far it sounds pretty good for Israel).

So we have to make sure if indeed the blockade is legitimate.

Article 102 of the San Remo manual states that a blockade is not allowed if the damage to civilians is excessive compared to the military advantages.

In 2009 the UN human rights commission stated that the restrictions that Israel imposes are unclear and inconsistent and does not allow for sufficient amounts of food and other items.

This is a breach of article 33 of the 4th Geneva convention that does not allow for collective punishment. (Israel declared the whole of Gaza, hostile territory in 2007 therefore including all civillians). In 2009 around 60-70% of the population in Gaza was living under the poverty levels and almost 40% living in extreme poverty.

The UN report states that " It constitutes collective punishment of all persons in Gaza, including the civilians, the blockade is itself a violation of international humanitarian law and therefore illegal."

Therefore the San Remo manual can not be used as it applies only to legal blockades. Article 103 becomes effective when a blockade is considered legal and states if civilians are not properly provided with foods and stuff the blocking party must allow free passage of foods and other essential stuff but has the right to inspect.

Israel is the occupying power as it has effective control over what comes in and what goes out of Gaza.

(Article 42 of the 1907 Hague Regulations states that "Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army")

This makes Israel responsible to the civilians and must provide adequate foods and medical supplies and services. Of which they do not as observed by the UN and several human right groups.

(Article 146 of the 4th Geneva convention allows the people responsible for breaching the convention to be brought into court and held responsible for crimes of war).

- Israel claimed it had the right to self defense, however, it were Israeli troops that

boarded those ships.

Article 87 of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, the high seas are open to all states and have certain freedoms, including the freedom of navigation. By intercepting the ship, Israel has breached this freedom.

A ship of war may only intercept a ship/boat in international waters if that ship is engaged in piracy, slave trade or is the same nationality as the ship of war under the Law of the Sea as well as the Geneva High Seas Convention. (Israel never claimed any of those).

Under the Law of the Sea, the civilians on the ship were entitled to self defense by using force/arms in proportion, while the ship was under the flag of Turkey making it an extension of their territory.

(the Israeli troops used guns and live munitions and the civilians used a few sticks and sharp objects, one person on the ship was shot first).

Israel has breached Article 3 which prohibits seizing a ship by force or any other form of intimidation, or to commit any acts of violence against the people on the ship.

(Israel is Party to the 1988 International Maritime Organization's Convention on the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Maritime Navigation)

International law: http://www.un.org/en/law/index.shtml

San Remo manual on international law: http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/57JMST

4th Geneva convention: http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/385ec082b509e76c41256739003e636d/6756482d86146898c125641e004aa3c5

Law of the sea: http://www.un.org/Depts/los/index.htm

1907 Hague Regulations http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/FULL/195

http://www.nti.org/e_research/official_docs/inventory/pdfs/maritime.pdf

I am not bashing Israel, just showing that what happened was illegal and against international and other laws.

If you support the actions of Israel in this issue I believe I am entitled to call you supporters of terror and even war crimes based on the laws and conditions of these laws that I have showed in this post.

Please if you feel, think and believe otherwise, back up your believes with relevant laws, statutes and whatever as to why this interception and killing of civilians on this ship was legal.

Take care all!

Alex

.

GREAT dont you think its better to educate us INORAMOUES by posting evidence

I have been for some time. Is it my fault that you constantly comment on all these things without even bothering to find out if they are true or to read the many old threads on the subject? It is actually your responsibility to educate yourself before subjecting us to your opinion.

What is the status of blockade in international law?

"The historic British position was that once a blockade was declared, neutral ships could be stopped on the open seas if in transit to a blockaded country. Other powers resisted this interpretation, but since Britannia ruled the waves, they could basically stuff it. During the American Civil War, the US quietly adopted the British position, as we didn't have enough US Navy ships to guard everything the Confederacy could use as a port. "

"International law (Declaration of London 1910) authorizes blockades and permits them to be enforced by boardings in international waters (presumably also permitting force to be used to carry out the lawful boardings). This is why Jack Kennedy was able to declare a blockade of Cuba in which ships bound for Cuba were to be boarded in international waters (I believe some actually were) by the U.S. Navy, which was to use force if necessary to carry out the boardings and to seize any cargo covered by the terms of the blockade. I do not believe anyone at the time or since has accused Kennedy of being engaged in an act of piracy. Someone who knows more than I do about the laws of naval engagement should comment on whether this blockade met the conditions of international law, because, if it did, the boarding and use of force in international waters were lawful and not piracy. Since Hamas has declared its goal to be the destruction of Israel as a Jewish state, the blockade was lawful in the first instance which means that the boarding and the use of necessary force were also lawful."

"The civilian Turkish boat announced that it intended to and was on its way to enter Gaza and supply a belligerent, terrorist organization, Hamas, which is the de facto government there, with which Israel is in a state of war or at least belligerence. Under Intl. law, Israel has a right to stop ships and make sure that no material which can be used for war or terrorist purposes reaches there. The organizers of the ships were offered to bring their assertedly humanitarian cargo into an Israeli port (Ashdod), and after inspection for contraband, everything else would be transshipped to Gaza. Or, for that matter, they could have allowed the ship to be boarded peacefully and inspected. "

But this is not good enough for some die-hard fanatics and there are still bombings, shootings, other attacks in the province.

Some people will never be satisfied until they see their 'enemies' totally destroyed. There is no negotiating with them. No reasoning. Nothing you give them is enough.

This sums it up.

Thank you for answering.

However, it is pretty much lacking in any coherant thought or logic, which I will answer more fully in response to H.B.