Advice On Literbikes In Thailand

[monkeyofdoom]

I've been riding a Ninja 250R for the last one and a half years (first "big" bike) and I'm getting a bit bored of it, so I want to upgrade to a bike with more power.

Perfect for me would be a second hand new-ish 600cc sportbike like the CBR600RR, but it seems that there is not much of a selection in Thailand? Apparently most imports are from Japan, but because bikes are restricted in Japan, the unrestricted imported bikes have actually been imported from Europe or US to Japan first. It seems few importers in Japan bother with 600s due to the small difference in price, and that means few 600s make it to Thailand too, so we end up with mostly literbikes.

I have seen a 2004 CBR1000RR for sale locally for 350,000. Would it be crazy to ride it (around Chiang Mai) with my experience level? Would it even be fun to ride compared to a 600cc, given that it will do around 120 kph in first gear? Someone told me it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slowly. Would you literbike owners agree?

And finally, between a 2004 R1 and a 2004 CBR1000RR, which would you choose and why?

[Tigersachsclub]

Difficult to say, depends a bit what areas and routes you plan to ride. Also liter bike can be not just sportsbike but all kind of bike. I did own a 1200 V-max here and it served me pretty well....if it had a green book i might still have it (even if it's a bit-ch in tight curves) . I do agree that driving a fast bike slow isn't all that fun but it is great to drive a fast bike on medium speeds and always haveing enough juice to overtake swiftly even on climbs ...i also enjoyed the usual better suspension and often stronger built on the larger Bikes and often the handling being "like on rails" . I can't speak against literbikes at all but if you seek for high speed riding you may not outlive it on roads here nor do i suggest it...but thats when Bira is serving the purpose.

happy trails,

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox

[Tigersachsclub]

forgot to mention it needs a bit of disciplinefor riding liter bikes as some maybe tempted to go too fast ...meaning faster than the traffic or road allows. If you're new to liter bikes with high power output ,start easy or even consider to get to know your bike on the track (bira) ...i didn't do the Bira thng but started my way up from 400 cc to 750cc and than it was a 1200 cc bike and always took my time to get to know the bike.

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox

[visions]

Why dont you rent a 600 and a 1 L for a week and try them out? That way you know for sure yourself. Body size also comes into the equation.

Im a CBR150 rider,I have rented a 600 many times now and although never getting the most out of the bike it tels me that is what i want. I have never ridden a 1L but just sitting on one it feels too big and heavy for me. The power is heading towards double a 600 and I know I would be in trouble too quickly.

Just try parking the bigger bike in Lotus etc at busy times.......is enough to say that you still need the small bike for town use.

You can buy a YZF6r Yammy new but not sure if restricted model or not?

I would think the obvious way to go for you would be the 650F Ninja as a first step?

Be interesting to see further posts and opinions.

[monkeyofdoom]

Why dont you rent a 600 and a 1 L for a week and try them out? That way you know for sure yourself. Body size also comes into the equation.

Im a CBR150 rider,I have rented a 600 many times now and although never getting the most out of the bike it tels me that is what i want. I have never ridden a 1L but just sitting on one it feels too big and heavy for me. The power is heading towards double a 600 and I know I would be in trouble too quickly.

Just try parking the bigger bike in Lotus etc at busy times.......is enough to say that you still need the small bike for town use.

You can buy a YZF6r Yammy new but not sure if restricted model or not?

I would think the obvious way to go for you would be the 650F Ninja as a first step?

Be interesting to see further posts and opinions.

I did try out a mate's rented Ninja 650R for an hour or so around Mae Hong Son's twisty roads which are the roads I like best. I didn't like it. The bike seemed too upright, both in riding position but also in the way it seemed to resist leaning over. On my Ninja 250R once it is leaned in it will stay there effortlessly until I bring it out but the 650R would bounce around and require constant pressure on the handlebars to keep it leaned over. I like a more settled, planted ride. Also, most importantly, the 650R look just doesn't make me want one. I'm tempted to wait and see whether the ZX6R will be offered later this year at an affordable price, but then again, that might never happen, which is why I am considering alternatives :-)

I'm firmly set on getting a fully faired sportbike, not really interested in nakeds or choppers. I would prefer a 600cc, but if a 1000cc is also manageable, then it seems it would be easier to find one here in Thailand...

[submaniac]

If you are used to riding a motorcycle, you will get used to the literbike. (I have a 2006 cbr1000rr). The modern literbikes have been engineered to be fairly liveable machines. They weigh and are about the same size as a 600 (I think there is less than a 20lb difference between the cbr1000rr and cbr600rr). Advantages are that power is available in all gears at all speeds. If you need to do a sudden burst of speed, a downshift is not necessary, just a flick of the throttle. Also, though not that you need it in Thailand, cruising at freeway speeds the engine is not revving at as high rpms as on a 600 bike. You really don't 'need' one in Thailand, but you really don't 'need' any large cc bike in Thailand either. For the prices you are seeing, you might as well get a literbike. You may get bored on a 600 after a while, and after you have been used to the power available on a literbike, you don't want to go back.

[nikster]

Ninja 650R would obviously be first choice in terms of bang for the buck. But you didn't like it which I find a bit surprising. I love my ER-6n and particularly how I can throw it into curves, this bike takes corners like no bike I have had before. It's so easy. All reviews pretty much confirm this - cornering is just fantastic. The Ninja should be pretty much the same as the ER-6n (though I haven't tried one).

So... what I am saying is.. if you have trouble in the twisties with the Ninja, you're doing it wrong. Try counter steering - to go left, push the left handle bar which makes the wheel turn right and DROPS the bike into a nice angle which makes it go around the corner effortlessly.

The ZX6R looks super duper nice, and will come later this year, but for a price around 500k baht. Might as well check out the Yamahas in this price bracket as well then. Though again, reviews are raving about the ZX6-R and calling it the perfect 600 bike.

Riding the ER-6n in Chiang Mai I can say sure this bike has way too much power. 1st or 2nd gear at almost all times. For hopping around the city a scooter would be more practical really. Then again, I do enjoy riding the bike even in the city so while practicality isn't so great (no storage for the shopping, etc), the fun factor outweighs that.

I don't think a 1L bike will be all that different. It has way more power of course, but unless I drive recklessly I can't make use of the 650cc's power in the city so what's the point.

Even on the highway and mountains, I rarely wish I had more power. Very rarely. Hmm... never? The highways up here aren't what I think would be safe for riding very fast. I'd like better touring capabilities which is why I am excited about the Versys which will come at the end of 2010/early 2011.

If you can "handle" a liter bike is IMO more a question of your temperament than experience. Can you reign yourself in?

Edit: The trick with the ER-6n/f is that you want to keep the engine above 7000 RPM. That makes a bit of noise, but you get the optimum power bracket, and, more importantly the bike suddenly rides as if on rails. Vibrations disappear. Only above 7k though.

Edited July 3, 2010 by nikster

[spud1]

In my opinion a supersports 600 should be your next bike of choice.The performance of a 1L superbike would just be wasted Even very experienced road riders could never use the full potencial of a 1L bike.Has you live in a part of the country surrounded by the

best biking roads which vary from very fast to very twisty sections you would be in your element on a 600.Has for the 2004 R1 v Blade just google some reviews,the 2004 blade does not read favourbly.

[monkeyofdoom]

Ninja 650R would obviously be first choice in terms of bang for the buck. But you didn't like it which I find a bit surprising. I love my ER-6n and particularly how I can throw it into curves, this bike takes corners like no bike I have had before. It's so easy. All reviews pretty much confirm this - cornering is just fantastic. The Ninja should be pretty much the same as the ER-6n (though I haven't tried one).

So... what I am saying is.. if you have trouble in the twisties with the Ninja, you're doing it wrong. Try counter steering - to go left, push the left handle bar which makes the wheel turn right and DROPS the bike into a nice angle which makes it go around the corner effortlessly.

...

Edit: The trick with the ER-6n/f is that you want to keep the engine above 7000 RPM. That makes a bit of noise, but you get the optimum power bracket, and, more importantly the bike suddenly rides as if on rails. Vibrations disappear. Only above 7k though.

I was surprised too, because I also read many great reviews of the 650R / ER6f and was sure I was going to buy one, but when I finally tried it I knew it was not for me, despite the fantastic price. I appreciate the advice on cornering, but I was comparing to the 250R on which I have no problems. Same rider on two bikes, so there must be a difference in the bikes' handling. I did discover the trick you mentioned about keeping the revs higher. That really seemed to remove a lot of the bounce and jitter, but not all of it. Is that a characteristic of most bikes, that you have to rev them to get them to settle? I guess on the 250 I would never go below about 7000rpm in any case as there is no power under that level :-)

[monkeyofdoom]

In my opinion a supersports 600 should be your next bike of choice.The performance of a 1L superbike would just be wasted Even very experienced road riders could never use the full potencial of a 1L bike.Has you live in a part of the country surrounded by the

best biking roads which vary from very fast to very twisty sections you would be in your element on a 600.Has for the 2004 R1 v Blade just google some reviews,the 2004 blade does not read favourbly.

Good advice... and probably safer as well. Perhaps get a few more years of experience on a 600cc before considering 1000cc. In any case, I love shifting gears on a bike, hearing the revs go up and down is a big part of the enjoyment, so that also speaks for a revvy 600 instead of a 1000...

Where is the best place to look for a new-ish second hand CBR600RR? I found a few pages but so far I only found it in boring black/silver!

[spud1]

Red Baron usually have some in stock,but make sure your sat down when they tell you the price.

[BigBikeBKK]

Going from a 33 horsepower Ninja 250R to a ~150-180+ horsepower 1000cc supersport is a bit of a leap IMO... There aren't that many places up north where you can really use liter bike power and a 600cc supersport like an R6 or CBR600RR will be lighter and more agile than a bigger heavier liter bike.

Keep an eye on the classifieds as fully legal used Yamaha R6's come up for sale at quite interesting prices from time to time. That's the way I'd go- trade up to 600cc and ride that for a while before you decide to go for a liter bike.

Oh, and there's a beautiful older model Chiang Mai based R1 for sale on GT Rider at an incredible price- 190k Baht!

I am amazed it hasn't sold yet and have been sorely tempted to buy it, but with an ER6n on the way I have too many dam_n bikes already.

The Ninja 650R / ER6n is not a supersport and the suspension is very basic, but it' geared perfectly for Thai roads and handles much better than the sum of its parts IMO. Handling can be improved with lower bars (highly recommended) and suspension upgrades.

My two satang

Happy Trails!

Tony

Edited July 3, 2010 by BigBikeBKK

[BigBikeBKK]

Red Baron usually have some in stock,but make sure your sat down when they tell you the price.

LOL Yeah, they're not the cheapest in town but there is some truth to the old saying "You get what you pay for"...

Here are a few Red Baron bikes worth considering-

2004 R1 for 385,000฿

2008 CBR600RR for 460,000฿ (better double check to see if this one is full power or restricted...)

Ooooh! A brand new full power 2009 GSX-R 1000!

Only 768,000฿ Ha ha!

Ride On!

Tony

[monkeyofdoom]

I have been eyeing that R1 for a month now :-D

Fantastic looking bike for that age, but a liter bike....

My TGF translated the description of the CBR600RR and it's restricted, so no use.

[JonnyF]

I'd go for a 600. I'd be surpised if there were more than a handful of riders living in Thailand that can use the power of a 1000cc supersport bike on Thai roads. Then you have the downsides of the 1000cc - the increased weight, fuel economy etc.

I don't find the 600's too revvy, in fact I like to use the power of the bike and shift to find the amount of power I'm looking for at the time. If you want to ride them fast they're still very very quick above 7000 rpm, and the lack of grunt at low rpm can be quite nice when you're riding on a wet greasy road - I quite like that I can stick my 600 into 6th and just cruise amongst traffic without worrying if I'm going to lose the rear end.

You can pick them up relatively cheap. RedBaron had an 04 R6 for 250k (fully legal book) for a while although it was high mileage and a bit rough around the edges. I picked up a 05 gsxr600 for the same price, again with fully legal book, low mileage and in good shape.

[neverdie]

I've been riding a Ninja 250R for the last one and a half years (first "big" bike)

OP, I've never known a 250cc bike to be classed a 'big bike' before. The power spec difference between ur ninja250 & a GSXR/R1/WHATEVERSPORT LITRE is IMMENSE! and you will notice it as such. They also tend to be a little heavier on tyres (which are wider than say 600cc class & hense more expensive) they also tend to put more wear n tear on chains and sprokets. All that aside, I am with the group of people here that recommend you hire a few bikes for a few days at a time & go from there. Goodluck.

[lennya12threh]

You can always consider a gsxr 750. I jumped up to a gsxr750 after going from 150cbr to 150nsr to 400vfr to 750gsxr.

It is great and once I got used the bike it is very manouverable and great handling and I rarely get stuck in traffic when there is a jam.

It doesn't have too much grunt in the lower rpms if you want, but in the high rpms it can go like a 1000.

Unfortunately they are uncommon and I'm not selling mine as I just blew some conrod bearings and getting it fixed.

But the fellow at highsidetours in Pattaya is selling a couple older models (2000-2002) I believe. If priced appropraitly, the price should be under 200,000 if not 150,000 and be in good condition, though if high kms should maybe be thought twice about.

But with modern bikes the 600s, 750, and 1000s are all about the same weight and size anyways considering manouverability.

On the 750 I always manage to find conditions (maybe I'm wreckless ) to use all the power and even hit 270 on an above ground highway with no cars, people or dogs (Boromrachatoni), and go their all the time when I travel to Nakom Pathom. Before I unconsciously abused the bike and needed repairs I was going to sell and upgrade to a 1000, but now with the price of repair I don't have the funds to and will have to stick with the 750. It could be god saving my life if there is one, who knows, but the 750 is a great bike.

[Zzinged]

Monkey, have you considered the VFR400?

[BigBikeBKK]

Monkey, have you considered the VFR400?

Is yours still for sale? A VFR400 in good nic is an awesome little screamer of a bike, BUT you have to remember that they are OLD and will need a fair bit of TLC to keep them running. That said, if you're mechanically adept and find one in good shape at a good price they are wicked fun little bikes.

[shark4thailand]

Hi Monkeyofdoom !

Take your time ! Don't jump from 250R to 600 CBR or 1000 sportbike.

They look the same, but their behaviour are very different from your 250cc, in terms of Torque, and power.

I would suggest to go for ER6 Kawa, then when you feel that this bike has no more suprise for you, then you can go up in power.

My first bike was a 660XTZ tenere , then a 600 Bandit, then a FZX 750 cc, then a GSXR 750 ( but i did not like the riding position ) so i took a XJR 1300 SP, then now i have a z 1000 2005 (130HP), but i have never push it to the limit.

I have driven around 12 000 km on each bike prior to change to a new one.

But most of all, in 20 years of riding, i have buried too many friends who thought that they could handle bigger bikes, only because they could afford to pay the price, so Take it easy, and enjoy the ride step by step

Sylvain

[seedy]

My biggest jump was from a 250cc two-stroke twin to a 500cc two-stroke triple. I was 16.

Twist the throttle and you don't ride there - you ARE there.

Be careful. To this day I do not know how I survived the learning curve.

[LivinLOS]

Part of the problem of not having much on the second hand market is these kind of choices and less than ideal compromises..

I would be very leary of a 240 - modern 1000 jump.. But lets not forget that the late model 600 supersports have all become very single minded rev monsters, which some of the older liter bikes were less so. Ideally you would find a good 400 sport, or a 600 that suits and build into it.. But that R1 for 190k would have me tempted and put myself on a strict responsibility check for 6 months.

Surprised an ER6 didnt feel good...

Edited July 4, 2010 by LivinLOS

[monkeyofdoom]

Monkey, have you considered the VFR400?

Is yours still for sale? A VFR400 in good nic is an awesome little screamer of a bike, BUT you have to remember that they are OLD and will need a fair bit of TLC to keep them running. That said, if you're mechanically adept and find one in good shape at a good price they are wicked fun little bikes.

Unfortunately I've spoiled myself by having a brand new 250R that has required absolutely no attention apart from riding it and the odd service and oil change. I have a friend with an old-ish Hornet 600 -- fantastic bike I have to admit, but he is in the shop with it almost every weekend, and I don't envy him that So while the VFR400 is a fun looking and sounding bike, I wouldn't want to deal with the upkeep.

I think the perfect choice for me right now would be a CBR600RR from 2007 or later, or a ZX6R if Kawa decides to sell it unrestricted this year for under 500K... and I'm going to take your advice not to buy a liter bike. It's what everyone has been telling me, myself included if I'm honest

I figure that with a proper 600cc sportsbike I will be happy with it for many many years to come, as these 600s are more bike than most riders are rider. I love the characteristics of a revvy inline four and would not be satisfied with another two-pot like the ER6n or 650R (not bashing these bikes btw, best deal in Thailand right now, but not my thing).

[Rastatoto]

Hi Monkeyofdoom !

It will not be fair for me to interfere with what it have been said on this topic, but I was in the same situation 2-3 years ago and I agree with what Submaniac said. if you buy a 600 cc, you may regret it!

Please check this post and if you are interest, feel free to call me!

http://classifieds.t...id=31&aid=48524

[JonnyF]

Hi Monkeyofdoom !

Take your time ! Don't jump from 250R to 600 CBR or 1000 sportbike.

They look the same, but their behaviour are very different from your 250cc, in terms of Torque, and power.

I would suggest to go for ER6 Kawa, then when you feel that this bike has no more suprise for you, then you can go up in power.

My first bike was a 660XTZ tenere , then a 600 Bandit, then a FZX 750 cc, then a GSXR 750 ( but i did not like the riding position ) so i took a XJR 1300 SP, then now i have a z 1000 2005 (130HP), but i have never push it to the limit.

I have driven around 12 000 km on each bike prior to change to a new one.

But most of all, in 20 years of riding, i have buried too many friends who thought that they could handle bigger bikes, only because they could afford to pay the price, so Take it easy, and enjoy the ride step by step

Sylvain

Depends on the mentality of the rider as well. Changing bikes all the time tends to cost money, and they only go as fast as you twist the throttle so if you're relatively sensible and can ride, then there's no need for an interim bike between a 250 and a 600 inline 4 IMO.

[monkeyofdoom]

I agree with JonnyF... it would be some small expensive baby steps to go first to 400cc and then 600cc. Direct to 600cc is the way...

Rastatoto that is an amazing looking bike, but I don't think I'm ready for a literbike, based on the advice in this thread and the advice of almost everyone else I've asked. Still it does seem like a crazy idea to pay the same price for a 600cc as I would pay for a 1000cc, but I'll pay the premium for a longer expected lifespan

[powderpuff]

4 Hondas & 1 Yamaha , in my avatar. Happy camper.

But I live in Bangkok & that makes a huge difference.

For a long time I thought the CB400 was too big for Bangkok roads - it wasn't. My Fazer is the bees knees.

[ttakata]

Go on guys, call me a wussy because I'm actually afraid of modern inline 4 literbikes with 180-200HP.

That's a lot of power to put down through such a small patch of rubber.

I think I would get on the gas too fast out of a corner and lose the back end.Even magazine writers admit they're overkill for public use.

If I was in your shoes I'd go to a fuel injected ~600cc too.

Since you're not a rookie I also feel a 400cc is not a big enough jump, it will be boring soon.

My first real bike was a CBR600F4i (109HP) and upon reflection it was a bad idea because I was new to biking.

I think any modern 600cc with 3-4 times the power you're used to will provide a lot to grow into.

A literbike seems too big a jump.

I had a 750cc with 127HP and I never wanted any more power than that.

Unless you're going to race, I think anything with 75-100HP is plenty.

I've gone much smaller and have a D-Tracker 250 since its perfect for Bangkok.

As long as I'm faster than most traffic then I'm happy.

I've always liked riding small bikes fast.

I've had way more fun pocketbike racing at 40-65KMH than riding a bigbike at 220KMH.

[monkeyofdoom]

ttakata I totally agree... Many superbike reviews start out by telling you you'd be mad to buy one and there's no way your skills match the bike's abilities. The fact that you can break most countries' freeway speed limits in first gear attests to that -- it's seems most at home on a track.

Anyway, thanks for all the advice guys, and please let anyone with a CBR600RR know that I'm in the market for one :jap:

[powderpuff]

There is a Hornet 919 for sale on TV classifieds. And a few 600 cc tank huggers.