Two Thai Detainees Face Additional Charge In Cambodia

[webfact]

THAI-KHMER DISPUTES

Two detainees face additional charge

By The Nation

Hun Sen warns against intervention

The plight of seven Thai nationals detained in a Cambodian jail worsened yesterday when two of them were hit with an additional charge of collecting security information, while Prime Minister Hun Sen insisted that no one could intervene in the Cambodian judicial system.

The lawyer for the seven detainees yesterday submitted a bail request to have them freed. However, it will take five days for the court to consider the request, resulting in a continued stay in the notorious Prey Sar prison.

Speaking to a gathering of college students, Hun Sen said attempts by any party to have them released would not bear fruit, as only the Cambodian courts had the right to rule on the case.

"Intervention from any quarter will not be accepted at this moment," he was quoted as saying by Kyodo News, adding that he did not expect the case to affect relations with Thailand.

The seven Thais, including ruling Democrat Party lawmaker Panich Vikitsreth and yellow-shirt Veera Somkwamkid, were arrested before New Year in a disputed border area near Ban Nong Chan in Sa Kaew province while inspecting the location.

Information from the Royal Thai Survey |and the Foreign Ministry indicated that they had walked 55 metres into territory actually under Cambodian sovereignty.

A leaked video showed that Panich was aware of the fact that he was walking into Cambodian territory while talking by telephone with an aide to Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

Panich told the Cambodian court last week that he had crossed the border by accident.

The seven were charged with illegally entering Cambodian territory and unlawfully entering a military base. These charges could lead to a combined 18 months' imprisonment.

Veera, who is leader of a People's Alliance for Democracy faction called the Thailand Patriots Network, and his secretary Ratree Pipatanapaiboon now face an additional charge, said Phnom Penh Municipal Court officials, who preferred not to be named.

The charge is one of attempting to "collect information which might damage Cambodia's national security", according to a report by Xinhua news agency.

Veera and Ratree face five to 10 years' imprisonment if found guilty.

Veera and his Thailand Patriots Network group were briefly held by Cambodian authorities at the same location in August last year.

Thai authorities have made several attempts to have the seven currently detained Thais released, but the chances of an early release look slim, as Phnom Penh has refused to make a deal.

Abhisit called a meeting yesterday with Deputy PM Suthep Thaugsuban, Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan and Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya, but he did not unveil any measures to end the situation.

Hun Sen's remark that no one could intervene in the case followed a rumour that ousted former Thai PM Thaksin Shinawatra or Pheu Thai Party wanted to mediate over their release.

"There are many comments these days, and also a publication said yesterday that Thaksin or the Pheu Thai Party want to intervene in the case of the seven arrested Thais. |I just confirm that no one can intervene in the judicial system - neither the government, nor foreigners, nor Cambodians," he said during a graduation ceremony at the National Institute of Education.

"I tell them that it is impossible, no matter which path you enter from, even from the United Nations, because the case is now under the full authority of the Cambodian court, which must be respected," he was quoted as saying by Xinhua.

After the trial, if convicted they can appeal and then take their case to the Supreme Court if they do not agree with the verdict, Hun Sen said.

-- The Nation 2011-01-11

[Buchholz]

"collect information which might damage Cambodia's national security"

It's dried out scrub land and rice farms they walked by, not a nuclear power plant located on a ballistic submarine base.

.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Buchholz

[asiawatcher]

"collect information which might damage Cambodia's national security"

It's dried out scrub land and rice farms they walked by, not a nuclear power plant located on a ballistic submarine base.

I'm still laughing - well said.

[taff33]

If you can't do the time,don't do the crime

[Cnxforever]

I fully agree that they should be prosecuted and judged according to the law in Cambodia - if they thought they can arrogantly break the law and simply call the Thai PM to get them out after they had themselves arrested - they have now time to think again!

Mr. Veera has been arrested before for illegal trespassing into Cambodia so he is a repeating offender. But of course in his narrow mind he did not trespass at all as he just simply declared part of Cambodia as Thai teritory and thinks this absolves him of any wrong doing.

Unless the government is in on this whole charade I do not understand their reaction.

Is this government prepared to cause an international incident to help a bunch of provocateurs who are on the wrong side of the law?

I think if this is the case the government should step down now. Unless of course this is all part of a bigger plan - create an international incident and have all Thais united stand behind their "heroic" government while they sort things out. This would not be the first time in history that a government tries to shift their problems at home to the international stage to rally their people behind them against the "foreign enemies"

If this is the case it is hopefully not working - most Thais I talk to are sick and tired of these "nationalists" - "som nam na" is the answer I get - and "let them rot in a Cambodian prison - nobody will miss them here!"

So PM Abhisit his deputy and FM Kasit should think again - maybe they should concentrate their energy on solving domestic problems and help law abiding Thai citizens abroad who might need help for legitimate reasons - and not a bunch of lawbreakers who intentionally crossed the border into a sovereign country illegally - as admitted on the video on youtube.

And as for FM Kasit - why is the man still in his position? Todays newspapers report he tried to call Hun Sen 10 times on the 29th - I hope he was not surprised that Hun Sen did not pick up the phone - Thai news papers reporting this should cause him the loss of what little of his face he has left.

A FM calling the PM of another country a "Gangster" in public after having himself taking part in an illegal Airport occupation causing the country irreparable damage should not think he could use his "influence" to help his lawbreaking PAD pals - especially if one of them is caught for the second time - in many other countries they would be prosecuted at home as well - if it can be established that they did it intentionally.

I hope that reason will prevail and that this case is not seen as anything more than it is - a bunch of people who broke the law - and they will be dealt with according to the law - nothing more and nothing less.

[Pib]

Well, these new charges might get people's attention about taking a publicity stunt stroll across the border.

[Payboy]

I fully agree that they should be prosecuted and judged according to the law in Cambodia - if they thought they can arrogantly break the law and simply call the Thai PM to get them out after they had themselves arrested - they have now time to think again!

Mr. Veera has been arrested before for illegal trespassing into Cambodia so he is a repeating offender. But of course in his narrow mind he did not trespass at all as he just simply declared part of Cambodia as Thai teritory and thinks this absolves him of any wrong doing.

Unless the government is in on this whole charade I do not understand their reaction.

Is this government prepared to cause an international incident to help a bunch of provocateurs who are on the wrong side of the law?

I think if this is the case the government should step down now. Unless of course this is all part of a bigger plan - create an international incident and have all Thais united stand behind their "heroic" government while they sort things out. This would not be the first time in history that a government tries to shift their problems at home to the international stage to rally their people behind them against the "foreign enemies"

If this is the case it is hopefully not working - most Thais I talk to are sick and tired of these "nationalists" - "som nam na" is the answer I get - and "let them rot in a Cambodian prison - nobody will miss them here!"

So PM Abhisit his deputy and FM Kasit should think again - maybe they should concentrate their energy on solving domestic problems and help law abiding Thai citizens abroad who might need help for legitimate reasons - and not a bunch of lawbreakers who intentionally crossed the border into a sovereign country illegally - as admitted on the video on youtube.

And as for FM Kasit - why is the man still in his position? Todays newspapers report he tried to call Hun Sen 10 times on the 29th - I hope he was not surprised that Hun Sen did not pick up the phone - Thai news papers reporting this should cause him the loss of what little of his face he has left.

A FM calling the PM of another country a "Gangster" in public after having himself taking part in an illegal Airport occupation causing the country irreparable damage should not think he could use his "influence" to help his lawbreaking PAD pals - especially if one of them is caught for the second time - in many other countries they would be prosecuted at home as well - if it can be established that they did it intentionally.

I hope that reason will prevail and that this case is not seen as anything more than it is - a bunch of people who broke the law - and they will be dealt with according to the law - nothing more and nothing less.

Very well put.

Just think of what the Thai army does to Cambodian tresspassers!

[hammered]

Political games.

Reality is:

Loads of Thais are living in Cambodia having crossed the border illegally. Many of these are criminals wanted for crimes such as murder or the more recent mass arson. However, these people have carved out a niche for themselves with the powerbroker of Cambodia. If Hun Sen was honest about charging all those trespassing on Cambodian territory, such characters as Kamnan Poh and Arisamon wouldnt be locked up (plus countless others).

The current lot upset the powerbroker of Cambodia, and as they have moderate connections are useful bargaining chips in certain disputes

Cambodia is not some lovely democracy with sepepration of powers. It is a "democracy" controlled by a single hardman who when his power was threatened by the democratic system staged a violent coup and smashed opposition.

In recent times as any opposition law maker has raised the very real issue of Vietnamese encroachment on Cambodian farmers land, he has either forced them into exile or encouraged them to change to become his supporters, while trying to divert attention from landgrabs by his own powerful ally by maximising attention on what happens on the other border.

Of course these idiots were stupid to go to Cambodian territory or something but anyone who thinks this is a straightforward legal matter being handled in a democratic way as would any other case is utterly deluded.

[Credo]

I think Pol Pot was living in Thailand for many years.  I think he holds a record, in this part of the world,  for doing bad things.

[Orac]

"collect information which might damage Cambodia's national security"

It's dried out scrub land and rice farms they walked by, not a nuclear power plant located on a ballistic submarine base.

.

Exactly, makes you wonder what all the fuss is about. Anyone would think there is a hotly disputed piece of real estate involving a military build up between two nations going on here.

[random]

"collect information which might damage Cambodia's national security"

It's dried out scrub land and rice farms they walked by, not a nuclear power plant located on a ballistic submarine base.

.

Clearly these charges relate to another matter, or conspiring to, otherwise all would have been charged with this offence. It is possible under interview they admitted intentions or admitted gathering information at other times.

But don't let things like this get in the way of your supporting the Thais when when they have clearly done wrong, a bit of thought on your part and I am sure you will have realized why these extra charge were brought.

[tigerbalm]

It will be interesting to see how this little incident pans out in the coming days/weeks Nationalistic fever will surely be on the agenda leading up you thee proposed PAD rally on the 25th of this month.

I'm surprised the leader of the PAD Mr Sondhi Limthongkul. Was'nt attending rather than sending his camera crew, may be the sacrifice was to great.

I pity the PM he must of woke up and thought this all i need.

please Mr can we have our Ball/s back :jap:

[webfact]

SEVEN THAIS' TRIAL

Hun Sen just stressing rules of law : Suthep

Cambodia's PM Hun Sen did not mean to harm the bilateral times when he called for all parties to respect its court's proceedings against seven Thai detainees which included a Democrat MP.

China's Xinhua news online quoted Hun Sen on Monday as saying taht it was possible for even the United Nations to intervene because the case is now under the full authority of the Cambodian court, which must be respected.

"What Hun Sen said was simply a statement of the principal of legal procedures; he did not intend to harm bilateral relations, Thai Deputy PM Suthep Thaugsuban said.

Seven Thais including Panich Vikitsetr, a Bangkok MP, were detaining in a Cambodian jail in Phnom Penh, pending trial against them on charge of illegal entry into Cambodia and entering a Khmer military post without permission.

Among the group was Veera Somkwamkit, a leader of Thai Patriots Network, who was earlier arrested on the same charge last year.

Suthep told reporters Tuesday that what everyone could do now was to wait for the court verdict. He advised all parties not to comment or criticise in ways which could negatively affect the case.

"Cambodian court procedures are not different from those of the Thai courts. We should not put pressure on the court,' he said.

He reiterated that the Thai authorities were using all means to help the detained Thais and the officials - political and military- were holding talks regularly at all levels.

Hun Sen said on Monday, "There are many comments these days. A publication said yesterday that Thaksin or the Puea Thai Party want to intervene in the case…. I just confirm that no one can intervene in the judicial system, neither the government, nor foreigners, or Cambodians."

-- The Nation 2011-01-11

[Buchholz]

"collect information which might damage Cambodia's national security"

It's dried out scrub land and rice farms they walked by, not a nuclear power plant located on a ballistic submarine base.

.

Clearly these charges relate to another matter, or conspiring to, otherwise all would have been charged with this offence. It is possible under interview they admitted intentions or admitted gathering information at other times.

But don't let things like this get in the way of your supporting the Thais when when they have clearly done wrong, a bit of thought on your part and I am sure you will have realized why these extra charge were brought.

Another matter? Admitted intentions or gathering information? On what?

There's nothing of "national security" in that area. It's "dried out scrub land and rice farms" all over. It's not Vladivostok or San Diego.

It is, as hammered so precisely nailed in his very accurate and informative post, just another chip for Hun Sen to add to his stack.

"Espionage ! !" sounds so much more dramatic than "trespassing."

In reality, however, it's absurd, unjustified BS.

.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Buchholz

[random]

"collect information which might damage Cambodia's national security"

It's dried out scrub land and rice farms they walked by, not a nuclear power plant located on a ballistic submarine base.

.

Clearly these charges relate to another matter, or conspiring to, otherwise all would have been charged with this offence. It is possible under interview they admitted intentions or admitted gathering information at other times.

But don't let things like this get in the way of your supporting the Thais when when they have clearly done wrong, a bit of thought on your part and I am sure you will have realized why these extra charge were brought.

Another matter? Admitted intentions or gathering information? On what?

There's nothing of "national security" in that area. It's "dried out scrub land and rice farms" all over. It's not Vladivostok or San Diego.

It is, as hammered so precisely nailed in his very accurate and informative post, just another chip for Hun Sen to add to his stack.

"Espionage ! !" sounds so much more dramatic than "trespassing."

In reality, however, it's absurd, unjustified BS.

.

Where does it say these charges are in relation to this incident or in that area?

It doesn't mention that as far as I am aware, my understanding is that it has not been revealed what these charges relate to, you are just assuming that it is in relation to the trespass charge.

It is possible that they already had evidence about other matters, and now these 2 people are in custody they may have been interviewed about this and the charges have followed from that, it may be something from weeks ago, months ago, years ago, or maybe during interview they said they had other intentions, maybe they said they were trying to see military strength in the area etc etc etc.

As I have already said, if it was simply in relation to the trespass then all 6 would have been charged, and as for the charges being BS, well they are Thais,I am sure they know how BS charges work, however in this matter maybe they are not BS, they probably have some substance baring in mind people are watching this closely.

[Buchholz]

It is possible that they already had evidence about other matters, and now these 2 people are in custody they may have been interviewed about this and the charges have followed from that, it may be something from weeks ago, months ago, years ago, or maybe during interview they said they had other intentions, maybe they said they were trying to see military strength in the area etc etc etc.

The other paper covers it better.

Read that and you'll learn how the "farce" charge of spying is bogus and how your fanciful explanations to explain the charges are unnecessary.

The espionage charge can get 10 years, the trespassing charge can get 18 months.

As said, bigger propaganda chip for Hun Sen.

.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Buchholz

[phuketrichard]

why would they be given bail? There is no way they would show up for court so they would not be a no risk for flight. They were in Cambodia when they were arrested, so they are quilty of the offense.

[kropotkin]

"collect information which might damage Cambodia's national security"

It's dried out scrub land and rice farms they walked by, not a nuclear power plant located on a ballistic submarine base.

.

and why did they walk there then?

[Credo]

Well, maybe some people just THINK it is dry scrubland and rice farms.  

[random]

It is possible that they already had evidence about other matters, and now these 2 people are in custody they may have been interviewed about this and the charges have followed from that, it may be something from weeks ago, months ago, years ago, or maybe during interview they said they had other intentions, maybe they said they were trying to see military strength in the area etc etc etc.

The other paper covers it better.

Read that and you'll learn how the "farce" charge of spying is bogus and how your fanciful explanations to explain the charges are unnecessary.

The espionage charge can get 10 years, the trespassing charge can get 18 months.

As said, bigger propaganda chip for Hun Sen.

.

I guess you are referring to the BP, luckily I have one sitting here and my desk and have just read the report again, at NO point in the report does it refer to these charges stemming from the illegal entry/trespass. the report makes no mention of why the charges are brought, it mentions the prison term for such an offence, but does not mention when these charges stem from or for what actions they stem from, so like i say in my post it could stem from an incident, week, months or years ago, or the charges could be based on what they admitted to under inerview.

please try and deal with facts, trying to intimate the BP report makes the matter clearer is just pure nonsense on your part, hopefully now people will pick up the BP post and read it and see what nonsense you are talking.

You are trying to make out that these 'spying' charges relate to this instance of illegal entry and claim there is nothing there worth spying on, but at o point have you showed me a report thats tates the 'spying' charge stems from this illegal entry and not from another issue.

Is that clearer for you???

[kropotkin]

"collect information which might damage Cambodia's national security"

It's dried out scrub land and rice farms they walked by, not a nuclear power plant located on a ballistic submarine base.

.

and why did they walk there then?

make up your mind.

1. they came to spy

2. they came to stir up trouble

3. they were on a lazy stroll

PS: a hint: thai do not like walking just for fun

[random]

Are you like a WWE tag team with buscholz, we can call you the 'nonsense brothers', you specialist pin down can be the 'hyperbole smash' or some other such nonsense.

Oh and in future if you want to refer to my post then quote it, don't replace my quote with your nonsense comment, now run along.

[chuang]

Things may not have gone badly if only thailand has been sensitive towards it's neighbour, instead of being cocky and arrogant...belittling and bullying it's poorer neighbour..

[rubl]

Are you like a WWE tag team with buscholz, we can call you the 'nonsense brothers', you specialist pin down can be the 'hyperbole smash' or some other such nonsense.

Oh and in future if you want to refer to my post then quote it, don't replace my quote with your nonsense comment, now run along.

The 'all removed, heck original post' should have been 'all removed, check original post', typo. Just trying to comply with new rules on quotes and embedded quotes

The rest of your post is a personal attack rather than a response on the contents / meaning of my reply. Naughty, or even 'not nice'. I guess you don't like discussions on content level ?

[termad]

It is possible that they already had evidence about other matters, and now these 2 people are in custody they may have been interviewed about this and the charges have followed from that, it may be something from weeks ago, months ago, years ago, or maybe during interview they said they had other intentions, maybe they said they were trying to see military strength in the area etc etc etc.

The other paper covers it better.

Read that and you'll learn how the "farce" charge of spying is bogus and how your fanciful explanations to explain the charges are unnecessary.

The espionage charge can get 10 years, the trespassing charge can get 18 months.

As said, bigger propaganda chip for Hun Sen.

The Thai Military have recently fired upon Cambodian civilians in this area who they claimed to be illegal loggers who had fired on them first. The point being that the area is controlled by the Thai Military on one side and the Cambodian Military on the other and both sides are prepared to open fire.

The situation could easily reach a flash point and a major engagement could ensue and if that happened knowledge of the formation and position of the opposing troops would be a distinct advantage. The seven were making notes and taking pictures so the Cambodian Military have every right to be upset with them and spying charges whether true or not would be hard to disprove.

Edited January 11, 2011 by termad

[Rimmer]

One post has been removed from view. also the quoted reply because the quoted text had been altered, please note this is against forum rules.

[Buchholz]

"collect information which might damage Cambodia's national security"

It's dried out scrub land and rice farms they walked by, not a nuclear power plant located on a ballistic submarine base.

.

and why did they walk there then?

To look into complaints from the Thai locals that allege the temporarily-allowed Cambodians were staying a long time on Thai territory.

It certainly wasn't to use micro-cameras to covertly film the process of changing out the fueling rods at the Middleofnowhere Nuclear Power Plant.

.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Well, maybe some people just THINK it is dry scrubland and rice farms.  

LOL... good one..

The area is, unbeknown to all, actually inundated with secret silos for intercontinental ballistic missles.

[kropotkin]

"collect information which might damage Cambodia's national security"

It's dried out scrub land and rice farms they walked by, not a nuclear power plant located on a ballistic submarine base.

.

and why did they walk there then?

To look into complaints from the Thai locals that allege the temporarily-allowed Cambodians were staying a long time on Thai territory.

It certainly wasn't to use micro-cameras to covertly film the process of changing out the fueling rods at the Middleofnowhere Nuclear Power Plant.

.

.....ALL thai locals? i read differently in the 2 english speaking yellowish newspapers.

[Payboy]

Maybe they were spying on Cambodia's 3G network?