France to recognize Palestine in September, Palestinian official says

[BKKarim]

PS. some figures for you if you really need it, since 2000 6400 Palestinians killed and 1084 Israelis

Palestinian children 1452, Israeli children 124

Ahh good, finally you have some numbers.

See if you speak of 1452 killed Palestinian Children vs. 124 killed Israeli children the picture looks much different than repeating that "20000 Hamas rocket on civilians" line.

And the member who wrote that far to many have been killed is right. On both sides and by both sides.

[BKKarim]

First you mentioned just the 20000 Hamas rockets, but that alone illustrates nothing.

It certainly illustrates intent. They are hate-mogers, but no one has claimed that Hamas are competent.

To mention only that unsubstantiated number of Hamas 'rockets' has of course the intention of hate mongering and put the blame solely on the Palestinian side.

If you look at the list of dead victims the story is quite different. No surprise.

[kuffki]

How many Israeli children died? How many Palestinian children died?

yes i am a man of facts and yet you are to show any, irrespective of how many times i have asked you.

Palestinians by far more then Israeli's HOWEVER what each side has done to avoid casualties and protect its citizens??? Please answer me that.

No rockets from Palestine=no response from Israel= no deaths

Rockets fired from under the civilians cover=more civilian deaths

Measures taken to protect civilians=no civilian deaths

Bomb shelters=less dead

Rocket production and non stop firing=more response=more deaths

Now please answer me which side specifically targets civilians? and this time DO NOT change the subject!

Q. Now please answer me which side specifically targets civilians?

With some statistics and figures about the civilian victims on both sides the question might be easier to answer.

First you mentioned just the 20000 Hamas rockets, but that alone illustrates nothing.

Now you say there are far more Palestinian victims. I would say that changes the whole picture a bit.

Don't you think?

Quite a difference when you say "Evil Hamas has send 20000 rockets" or "Far more Palestinian civilians have been killed than Israeli"

Please keep that in mind.

And when you, as the man of statistics and facts, have also the exact number of victims, please come up with it.

Q. what each side has done to avoid casualties and protect its citizens???

As you said the far more Palestinians were killed, an odd (rhetorical) question, what is the logic behind? The number of Palestinian victims is far greater because over there they do nothing to protect them from IDF air strikes? So it is the fault of the Palestinians?

Or simply the number of israeli victims is lower because they were not specifically targets?

Good try! DO NOT CHANGE THE SUBJECT!! and please answer simple questions.

Which side specifically targets civilians?

As stated by Ulysses, if Israel spend more money, time and brain cells on defense and putting systems in place, that does not change the fact of who is targeting whom

What each side has done to avoid casualties and protect its citizens?

Israel has built bomb shelters, equipped its military and has a warning system in place, so it is Israel to blame for corruption and inadequacy of Palestinian government?

Edited March 7, 2011 by kuffki

[Ulysses G.]

Sounds like one side is too stupid to make peace and Israel has offered to make peace repeatedly.

[kuffki]

First you mentioned just the 20000 Hamas rockets, but that alone illustrates nothing.

It certainly illustrates intent. They are hate-mogers, but no one has claimed that Hamas are competent.

To mention only that unsubstantiated number of Hamas 'rockets' has of course the intention of hate mongering and put the blame solely on the Palestinian side.

If you look at the list of dead victims the story is quite different. No surprise.

Do not dance around the issue and try to change the subject.

If you look at the list of dead victims it only shows that Palestinian government could not care less about its people, because if they did, they

1. Would not use them as human shields

2. Would NOT fire 20 000 rockets into Israel BEING well aware that there will be a response

3. Build bomb shelters and warning systems

4. Build an army to protect its people, not have terrorists run around and fire rockets.

[kuffki]

PS. some figures for you if you really need it, since 2000 6400 Palestinians killed and 1084 Israelis

Palestinian children 1452, Israeli children 124

Ahh good, finally you have some numbers.

See if you speak of 1452 killed Palestinian Children vs. 124 killed Israeli children the picture looks much different than repeating that "20000 Hamas rocket on civilians" line.

And the member who wrote that far to many have been killed is right. On both sides and by both sides.

Would it make you feel any better if Israel was just to respond with same number of rockets fired into Palestinian territory?

Take away all the shelters and warning systems and rather then take all the kids to safety put them on the front line or better yet fire the rockets from school's roofs.

Would that paint a better picture then?

[kuffki]

First you mentioned just the 20000 Hamas rockets, but that alone illustrates nothing.

It certainly illustrates intent. They are hate-mnogers, but no one has claimed that Hamas are competent.

Israel has wiped the floor with a bunch of much larger countries - over and over again - that have attacked them first. It is pretty hard to blame them for responding decisively even though their enemies are not the most proficient armies.

LOL, yeah apparently 20 000 rockets illustrates nothing but pure and innocent love!

[BKKarim]

First you mentioned just the 20000 Hamas rockets, but that alone illustrates nothing.

It certainly illustrates intent. They are hate-mogers, but no one has claimed that Hamas are competent.

To mention only that unsubstantiated number of Hamas 'rockets' has of course the intention of hate mongering and put the blame solely on the Palestinian side.

If you look at the list of dead victims the story is quite different. No surprise.

Do not dance around the issue and try to change the subject.

If you look at the list of dead victims it only shows that Palestinian government could not care less about its people, because if they did, they

1. Would not use them as human shields

2. Would NOT fire 20 000 rockets into Israel BEING well aware that there will be a response

3. Build bomb shelters and warning systems

4. Build an army to protect its people, not have terrorists run around and fire rockets.

If Israel would be the better side here and would have respect for human life they wouldn't kill 1452 Palestinian children. Period.

[kuffki]

If Israel would be the better side here and would have respect for human life they wouldn't kill 1452 Palestinian children. Period.

Yes you absolutely right. Israel should just sit back and allow for its citizens including children to be killed.

Hammas SHOULD NOT stop firing rockets.

Your logic is undeniable.

[Ulysses G.]

If Israel would be the better side here and would have respect for human life they wouldn't kill 1452 Palestinian children. Period.

If Hamas was not provoking Israel and using children as suicide bombers and human shields, you might not have anything to talk about.

The extent of this corruption of children's minds was vividly exposed last week by the investigative journalist Gerald Posner, who produced a Web documentary (hosted by thedailybeast.com) based on videos culled from television by Palestinian Media Watch. It is deeply shocking to observe children being programmed for terrorism through the exaltation of suicide bombers as heroes. "Martyrdom is bliss," a child hostess says, referring to a 14-year-old suicide killer. The clips show incessant indoctrination that Islam wants the death of adults and children for Allah and will reward those who achieve Shahada, which Palestinian Media Watch equates with death for Allah. "I have let my land drink my blood, and I have loved the way of Shahada," intones a young boy.

False history. Children being taught murder by rote is child abuse, a mental deformation more damaging than physical injury. Equally disgusting is the demonization of Jews based on a phony history of the Holocaust. http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2008/12/19/palestinians-training-kids-to-be-suicide-bombers

[BKKarim]

Sounds like one side is too stupid to make peace and Israel has offered to make peace repeatedly.

distorted truth.

One side is using force and aggression and don't stop, the other side is seeking help through diplomatic channels.

From the OP:

After the peace talks were suspended on Oct. 2 due to Israel's rejection to halt settlement activities, the Palestinians threatened to use other diplomatic options, mainly asking the world's recognition of a Palestinian state.

[Wallaby]

First you mentioned just the 20000 Hamas rockets, but that alone illustrates nothing.

It certainly illustrates intent. They are hate-mnogers, but no one has claimed that Hamas are competent.

Israel has wiped the floor with a bunch of much larger countries - over and over again - that have attacked them first. It is pretty hard to blame them for responding decisively even though their enemies are not the most proficient armies.

From the intent of your posts you seem quite happy that Israel has 'wiped the floor'. Don't seem to note any sadness of civilian deaths. Unless of course they are Isreali deaths.

[kuffki]

Sounds like one side is too stupid to make peace and Israel has offered to make peace repeatedly.

distorted truth.

One side is using force and aggression and don't stop, the other side is seeking help through diplomatic channels.

From the OP:

After the peace talks were suspended on Oct. 2 due to Israel's rejection to halt settlement activities, the Palestinians threatened to use other diplomatic options, mainly asking the world's recognition of a Palestinian state.

I am sure after Palestine has been recognized they will have no problem recognizing Israel.

[kuffki]

First you mentioned just the 20000 Hamas rockets, but that alone illustrates nothing.

It certainly illustrates intent. They are hate-mnogers, but no one has claimed that Hamas are competent.

Israel has wiped the floor with a bunch of much larger countries - over and over again - that have attacked them first. It is pretty hard to blame them for responding decisively even though their enemies are not the most proficient armies.

From the intent of your posts you seem quite happy that Israel has 'wiped the floor'. Don't seem to note any sadness of civilian deaths. Unless of course they are Isreali deaths.

I could be wrong, but i believe Ulysses was referring to the 2 wars and there were no civilian casualties as it was a "proper" war and only army casualties.

[Wallaby]

First you mentioned just the 20000 Hamas rockets, but that alone illustrates nothing.

It certainly illustrates intent. They are hate-mnogers, but no one has claimed that Hamas are competent.

Israel has wiped the floor with a bunch of much larger countries - over and over again - that have attacked them first. It is pretty hard to blame them for responding decisively even though their enemies are not the most proficient armies.

From the intent of your posts you seem quite happy that Israel has 'wiped the floor'. Don't seem to note any sadness of civilian deaths. Unless of course they are Isreali deaths.

I could be wrong, but i believe Ulysses was referring to the 2 wars and there were no civilian casualties as it was a "proper" war and only army casualties.

Any deaths, civilian or not, is not good. To use such terms as 'wipe the floor' is not acceptable. War is not glory.

[BKKarim]

First you mentioned just the 20000 Hamas rockets, but that alone illustrates nothing.

It certainly illustrates intent. They are hate-mnogers, but no one has claimed that Hamas are competent.

Israel has wiped the floor with a bunch of much larger countries - over and over again - that have attacked them first. It is pretty hard to blame them for responding decisively even though their enemies are not the most proficient armies.

From the intent of your posts you seem quite happy that Israel has 'wiped the floor'. Don't seem to note any sadness of civilian deaths. Unless of course they are Isreali deaths.

Guess who he had in mind with " They are hate-mnogers[sic]"?

[Ulysses G.]

From the intent of your posts you seem quite happy that Israel has 'wiped the floor'. Don't seem to note any sadness of civilian deaths. Unless of course they are Isreali deaths.

Sounds to me like you are making up nonsense out of thin air, but there is nothing new about that.

[kuffki]

Any deaths, civilian or not, is not good. To use such terms as 'wipe the floor' is not acceptable. War is not glory.

Agree but keep in mind Israel was attacked by 4 nations on all fronts, and to make matters worse, one of the wars they attacked on the holiest day of the year.

Both wars were won with minimal casualties on both sides, in one case entire Egyptian air force was taken out-just imagine how many deaths were avoided

[Ulysses G.]

Guess who he had in mind with " They are hate-mnogers[sic]"?

It is very obvious that I was referring to Hamas, but you seem to be reduced to pointing out minor spelling mistakes.

[rimbung]

Any deaths, civilian or not, is not good. To use such terms as 'wipe the floor' is not acceptable. War is not glory.

Agree but keep in mind Israel was attacked by 4 nations on all fronts, and to make matters worse, one of the wars they attacked on the holiest day of the year.

Both wars were won with minimal casualties on both sides, in one case entire Egyptian air force was taken out-just imagine how many deaths were avoided

Gaza..The worlds biggest concentration camp.1.6 million people, as of July 2011, locked up by the Israeli's.

Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot.

Edited March 7, 2011 by rimbung

[Jingthing]

Gaza..The worlds biggest concentration camp.1.6 million people, as of July 2011, locked up by the Israeli's.

Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot.

No Gaza is not a concentration camp, and anyone who uses such a false inflammatory description is clearly suggesting Israel's policies are equivalent to the Nazi Third Reich. In other words, a classic example of modern neo-antisemitic rhetoric. I think that kind of rhetoric has no place here.

Is the situation in Gaza ideal? Hardly. Oh, they voted for Hamas to govern them. Interesting choice. Their choice. But it's not a concentration camp.

http://fra.europa.eu/fraWebsite/material/pub/AS/AS-WorkingDefinition-draft.pdf

From Working Definition of Antisemitism

Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policies to that of the Nazis

Edited March 7, 2011 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

Gaza..The worlds biggest concentration camp.1.6 million people, as of July 2011, locked up by the Israeli's.

A blatant lie.

[tw25rw]

Guess who he had in mind with " They are hate-mnogers[sic]"?

It is very obvious that I was referring to Hamas, but you seem to be reduced to pointing out minor spelling mistakes.

What were the Palestinians thinking when they voted for Hamas? It can only be assumed that they wanted an extended war with Israel. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Israel's actions, nothing will improve for the Palestinian people while Hamas are in charge.

[kuffki]

Guess who he had in mind with " They are hate-mnogers[sic]"?

It is very obvious that I was referring to Hamas, but you seem to be reduced to pointing out minor spelling mistakes.

What were the Palestinians thinking when they voted for Hamas? It can only be assumed that they wanted an extended war with Israel. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Israel's actions, nothing will improve for the Palestinian people while Hamas are in charge.

AMEN to that. They were not thinking but were motivated by the hate. Hammas is good at pointing fingers and laying blame for all the troubles and this is what they used to win.

As per post 50(rather then having to retype it http://www.thaivisa....ys/page__st__25 )

Edited March 7, 2011 by kuffki

[BKKarim]

Gaza..The worlds biggest concentration camp.1.6 million people, as of July 2011, locked up by the Israeli's.

Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot.

No Gaza is not a concentration camp, and anyone who uses such a false inflammatory description is clearly suggesting Israel's policies are equivalent to the Nazi Third Reich. In other words, a classic example of modern neo-antisemitic rhetoric. I think that kind of rhetoric has no place here.

Is the situation in Gaza ideal? Hardly. Oh, they voted for Hamas to govern them. Interesting choice. Their choice. But it's not a concentration camp.

Probably not quite right to compared it with a nazi concentration camp, but criticism of Israel must have nothing to do with anti-semtism.

That is the the same way of playing the nazi card, something you just said its not correct to do so.

[Wallaby]

Do you have any posts condeming Israel's actions at anytime or do you only condemn those against Israel? That is not an accusation but a question.

Yes, I have made negative posts about Israeli actions, but because they are actually willing to make peace, I give them a lot more credit than the enemies who refuse to even consider it.

So where are your posts condeming any of Israeli's actions? From this post it seems that you are condeming Israel because they are willing to make peace. Interesting.

[Jingthing]

Probably not quite right to compared it with a nazi concentration camp, but criticism of Israel must have nothing to do with anti-semtism.

That is the the same way of playing the nazi card, something you just said its not correct to do so.

Huh?!? Your words are vague, very vague. Sometimes criticism of Israel has nothing to do with antisemitism, and sometimes it has everything to do with antisemitism. Is that so hard to grasp? When someone calls Gaza a concentration camp, you know its the latter case.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Jingthing

[BKKarim]

Probably not quite right to compared it with a nazi concentration camp, but criticism of Israel must have nothing to do with anti-semtism.

That is the the same way of playing the nazi card, something you just said its not correct to do so.

Huh?!? Your words are vague, very vague. Sometimes criticism of Israel has nothing to do with antisemitism, and sometimes it has everything to do with antisemitism. Is that so hard to grasp? When someone calls Gaza a concentration camp, you know its the latter case.

Yes nazis are always the others. Easy and cheap way to win an argument. Not.

[BKKarim]

Guess who he had in mind with " They are hate-mnogers[sic]"?

It is very obvious that I was referring to Hamas, but you seem to be reduced to pointing out minor spelling mistakes.

Its pretty easy to spot the hate mongers here.

Topic: " France to recognize Palestine in September"

Guess who can not accept this and start to argue? Hate mongers.

[Steely Dan]

Probably not quite right to compared it with a nazi concentration camp, but criticism of Israel must have nothing to do with anti-semtism.

That is the the same way of playing the nazi card, something you just said its not correct to do so.

Huh?!? Your words are vague, very vague. Sometimes criticism of Israel has nothing to do with antisemitism, and sometimes it has everything to do with antisemitism. Is that so hard to grasp? When someone calls Gaza a concentration camp, you know its the latter case.

What we are dealing with here is an insidious malignant feedback loop. It always returns to stock phrases such as Zionism supposedly being racism, or Gaza supposedly being a concentration camp (with it's own mall) - Israel may be far from perfect, but if you quantify the number of deaths Israel is responsible for when acting in self defence it pales into insignificance compared to the numbers killed by arab despots, medieval theocracies and terrorist groups, but if you count U.N declarations you get a completely misleading picture until you scratch below the surface. Perhaps that's why any mention of the U.N has some of us attempting to add some balance.

I do wish the French well with their arms sales and oil supply concerns, it remains to be seen how they word any declaration legitimising an organisation who routinely targets civilians with missiles and suicide bombers