Very soon the 'tired, poor and huddled masses, yearning to breathe free' from all over the globe will be making their way to China for a better life.

I think not.

You're right....only the rich will be able to afford move live in China.

would they want too?

Would the rich want to live in the country with the biggest economy? I guess many would. Birds of a feather.

Yeah, you can see them lining up right here:

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/

Yeah, you can see them lining up right here:

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/

You know I had seen those before & the first thing I thought was.....Ooooh that is why all the jobs went to China & Taiwan for manufacturing.

Thinking the EPA & others made it too costly for business to continue to pollute while producing products we are all guilty of wanting/buying.

So they ship the jobs out along with the pollution .....Yet we still demand the products

There upi go again with your silly persecution complex that some of us are out to condemn all things American and that we "take comfort in the doom & gloom you hope happens to the USA". Where...where, is there any indication that anyone on this forum "hopes" the US will crumble?

Obviously a rhetorical question.

Pointing out factual flaws in the US system is somethiing else altogether....and perhaps if there was less arrogance and more humility in the blinkered right wingers, the real defenders of freedom would not be so quick to point out those glaringly obvious flaws.

Pointing out factual flaws? The OP mentions how America is "falling" when the story is about the economy of a country of 1.4 billion people predicted to pass the USA's in a few years. So the facts are being pushed aside to advance someone's agenda of hate.

I wonder what the standard of living is like in Detroit (or a dozen other cities) compared to Shanghai?

Higher.Parts of Shanghai are beautiful and modern when I was there in 2008 but the masses don't have it so good.

Yeah, you can see them lining up right here:

http://www.chinahush...ution-in-china/

You know I had seen those before & the first thing I thought was.....Ooooh that is why all the jobs went to China & Taiwan for manufacturing.

Thinking the EPA & others made it too costly for business to continue to pollute while producing products we are all guilty of wanting/buying.

So they ship the jobs out along with the pollution .....Yet we still demand the products

I don't demand them. I am the Anti- Consumer. I've got a wife and two daughters though and curbing their appetite for "stuff" is like trying to hold back the tide.

Shipping the "true costs" of production offshore:

The SOS video is a bit skewed but the rebuttal video is so bad it makes the SOS seem all the more credible:

Pointing out factual flaws? The OP mentions how America is "falling" when the story is about the economy of a country of 1.4 billion people predicted to pass the USA's in a few years. So the facts are being pushed aside to advance someone's agenda of hate.

[

Agenda of hate???? There you go yet again with showing your persecution complex!

I recall you mentioning that you see nothing wrong with a toke or two (we are in agreement there), but may I suggest that you cut down a bit. Overuse can cause paranoia.

So the facts are being pushed aside to advance someone's agenda of hate.

There is nothing new on that front. 

So the facts are being pushed aside to advance someone's agenda of hate.

There is nothing new on that front.

Were Bush's invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan agendas of hate? I suppose they could have been, ....it has been put forward that he went to Iraq to avenge dady's failure, or because his Christian God told him to......but the popular perception is that they were agendas of greed.

You really have never heard of Saddam refusing to allow weapons inspectors into Iraq according to UN resolutions or of 9/11? 

You really have never heard of Saddam refusing to allow weapons inspectors into Iraq according to UN resolutions or of 9/11?

We were talking about putting facts aside in the cause of agendas, weren't we? Non-facts such as WOMD and Taliban's refusal to hand over OBL are the other side of the same coin.

The UN weapons inspectors were looking for WMDs in Iraq and Saddam refused them access. The Taliban refused to hand over Bin Ladin. Those ARE facts. 

The UN weapons inspectors were looking for WMDs in Iraq and Saddam refused them access. The Taliban refused to hand over Bin Ladin. Those ARE facts.

The first is a fact, but a fact that came about because of the lies that there were WOMD. The second is a twisted spin on the actual fact that they offered to hand over to a 3rd party if the US could produce evidence.

We've been over this before and the facts have not changed.....why do you prefer to hold on to the fairy tales that Powel, Rumsfeld et al spun at the time that you know full well were deceits.

Because no one knew that they were incorrect at the time including Bush. Every Western country had the same intelligence and knew that Saddam had possessed and used WMDs and that the Taliban would never hand over Bin Ladin. .

The UN weapons inspectors were looking for WMDs in Iraq and Saddam refused them access. The Taliban refused to hand over Bin Ladin. Those ARE facts. 

-the UN cares a flying fàck when it concerns resolutions on "most favoured nations" which refuse to comply.

-the invasion of Afghanistan was not sanctioned by the UN. the UN months later (december 2001) -under extreme pressure and a lot of horse trading- issued a half-assed statement based on United Nations Charter, Chapter 7, Article 51 which condoned the invasion. handing over bin-Laden was never discussed in the UN before the invsion. an extradition agreement between the U. S. of A. and Afghanistan does not exist.

-the 2003 invasion of Iraq was not sanctioned by the UN.

-the blatant and stupid lies which Powell presented to the Security Council were not accepted except by FAUX News and some ignorants who fall for each and every shit. that's why the "coalition of the willing" was formed to start a war based mainly on "he wanted to kill my Daddy folks!"

-at least Powell had the guts and showed some character years later when he confessed that he was a goddàmn liar in this respect.

THESE are facts!

I thought by this point the entire English-speaking world would know how to spell "WMD".

Agenda of Hate - the anti-American lefties on this forum constantly ignore facts when slinging mud at the USA. One recent example was someone saying that the reason the USA is taking military action in Libya is for their oil! Even though we get practically no oil from them at all. That might be why Europe is taking action for a change instead of hiding under their desks at the UN.

I'm not going to list all the lies but I will note them for you as they happen. It shouldn't be a long wait because these are repeated often here.

that's why the "coalition of the willing" was formed to start a war based mainly on "he wanted to kill my Daddy folks!"

-at least Powell had the guts and showed some character years later when he confessed that he was a goddàmn liar in this respect.

THESE are facts!

Harcourt, here's another one. I told you it wouldn't take long.

You really have never heard of Saddam refusing to allow weapons inspectors into Iraq according to UN resolutions or of 9/11?

We were talking about putting facts aside in the cause of agendas, weren't we? Non-facts such as WOMD and Taliban's refusal to hand over OBL are the other side of the same coin.

on the subject of coin, it was obvious that things were changing in the US economy when copper was being added to silver while minting coins, then it went from copper to some other form of cheap alloy. The currency problem is much the sames as the Romans, printing too much money and going off the gold standard. H man I know you like to call all the wars a Bush war but lets slow the roll on that and take a look at how many countires are sending money and men to the areas of conflict right or wrong wmd or not that is what is. On the topic of the down fall of the US economy, well as sad as it is to admit, as long as the head of the country is a person who has never made payroll for even 3 people the situation will be dire. Mr. O. is an idiot on his best day when it comes to doing business and I only wish that all the world liberals that love him so much could actually live under his wisdom. The USA is all about business and there is no need to hide from this fact that is what america does, business and that is what makes the world go round, if not then china moving up on the business list would come second to all it's problems.

-the invasion of Afghanistan was not sanctioned by the UN. the UN months later (december 2001) -under extreme pressure and a lot of horse trading- issued a half-assed statement based on United Nations Charter, Chapter 7, Article 51 which condoned the invasion.

Close enough, but no one said they did and the same goes for the attack on Iraq. They did send weapons inspectors who were not allowed to do their job.

The UN weapons inspectors were looking for WMDs in Iraq and Saddam refused them access. The Taliban refused to hand over Bin Ladin. Those ARE facts. 

-the UN cares a flying fàck when it concerns resolutions on "most favoured nations" which refuse to comply.

-the invasion of Afghanistan was not sanctioned by the UN. the UN months later (december 2001) -under extreme pressure and a lot of horse trading- issued a half-assed statement based on United Nations Charter, Chapter 7, Article 51 which condoned the invasion. handing over bin-Laden was never discussed in the UN before the invsion. an extradition agreement between the U. S. of A. and Afghanistan does not exist.

-the 2003 invasion of Iraq was not sanctioned by the UN.

-the blatant and stupid lies which Powell presented to the Security Council were not accepted except by FAUX News and some ignorants who fall for each and every shit. that's why the "coalition of the willing" was formed to start a war based mainly on "he wanted to kill my Daddy folks!"

-at least Powell had the guts and showed some character years later when he confessed that he was a goddàmn liar in this respect.

THESE are facts!

1. U.S. Cites 1991 U.N. Cease-Fire Resolution as the Legal Basis for Its Invasion

March 21, 2003|From Reuters

The United States gave its official reasons for invading Iraq to the U.N. Security Council late Thursday, saying Baghdad had broken a cease-fire resolution adopted after the 1991 Persian Gulf War.

Britain and Australia, two other nations in the U.S.-led coalition, wrote similar, shorter, letters to the 15-member council. None of the letters mentioned "regime change," an aim of the invasion but never authorized in any council resolution.

More here... http://articles.latimes.com/2003/mar/21/news/war-reasons21

2. RESOLUTION 687 (1991)

Adopted by the Security Council at its 2981st meeting,

on 3 April 1991

Resolution here... http://www.fas.org/news/un/iraq/sres/sres0687.htm

The last time I was in Shanghai was 1978 and it was rather grim then.

I recall Shanghai back about this time, as well. I found the place and surroundings rather romantic and old school. I've been to Shanghai of contemporary times, and appears to be a quite uplifting and livable city. Mixing old with new. It's unfortunate that we're conditioned to use the forced upon and predictable comparatives, isn't it?

that's why the "coalition of the willing" was formed to start a war based mainly on "he wanted to kill my Daddy folks!"

-at least Powell had the guts and showed some character years later when he confessed that he was a goddàmn liar in this respect.

THESE are facts!

Harcourt, here's another one. I told you it wouldn't take long.

an irrelevant remark does not cover up when one has nothing to say.

that's why the "coalition of the willing" was formed to start a war based mainly on "he wanted to kill my Daddy folks!"

-at least Powell had the guts and showed some character years later when he confessed that he was a goddàmn liar in this respect.

an irrelevant remark does not cover up when one has nothing to say.

Or remarks.

Harcourt said:

Pointing out factual flaws in the US system is somethiing else altogether....and perhaps if there was less arrogance and more humility in the blinkered right wingers, the real defenders of freedom would not be so quick to point out those glaringly obvious flaws.

This is the essence of the thread, I think. There is no doubt that the US facing difficult times and those difficulties will not overcome by addressing the nations problems, not by finger pointing at which group: politically, religiously or ethnically needs to be done away with.