No, I'm not going to going to read all those links.

So you ask for links and then refuse to read them? How open-minded are you?

And...2-3 yr olds WILL NOT use what happened to them at that age to determine who they give their business to when they are adults. Full stop.

You didn't even read my reasoning, otherwise you wouldn't have made such a comment. I've wasted enough time.

No, I'm not going to going to read all those links.

So you ask for links and then refuse to read them? How open-minded are you?

Absolutely Endure. That's what people with blinkered views do.

And...2-3 yr olds WILL NOT use what happened to them at that age to determine who they give their business to when they are adults. Full stop.

You didn't even read my reasoning, otherwise you wouldn't have made such a comment. I've wasted enough time.

No, I'm not going to going to read all those links.

So you ask for links and then refuse to read them? How open-minded are you?

Absolutely Endure. That's what people with blinkered views do.

In fact I thought your earlier point regarding brand loyalty to be perfectly true. If your daughter has privileged travel with one particular airline then its likely she would continue to use them. By the same token if she reached say 9 or 10 and your preferred airline chose to ban her from biz class due to her age its likely you both would be looking for another airline.

Such a slight is unlikely to be forgotten quickly by either of you imo.

As usual koheesti is taking things far too literally. Bit rude of him not to bother reading at least the first link as I did list them by importance....never mind I shall get over this slight perhaps....

And...2-3 yr olds WILL NOT use what happened to them at that age to determine who they give their business to when they are adults. Full stop.

You didn't even read my reasoning, otherwise you wouldn't have made such a comment. I've wasted enough time.

I read your reasoning and agree with koheesti. Your theory will probably have little bearing on her decisions on as an adult. My family always flew United, but as soon as I started buying my own plane tickets and realized that I could get the same thing at a cheaper price, I changed to other airlines.

And...2-3 yr olds WILL NOT use what happened to them at that age to determine who they give their business to when they are adults. Full stop.

You didn't even read my reasoning, otherwise you wouldn't have made such a comment. I've wasted enough time.

No, I'm not going to going to read all those links.

So you ask for links and then refuse to read them? How open-minded are you?

Absolutely Endure. That's what people with blinkered views do.

Sigh. Apparently neither of you three bothered to read the links either beyond the headline.

From the first paragraph of the first link:

The heart of the capital has been hardest hit, with 99 pubs lost in Westminster and the City between July 2007 and the end of last year with the smoking ban, the recession, cheap supermarket alcohol, planning rules and duty increases all contributing to a "perfect storm''.

The smoking ban was only one of six factors mentioned - INCLUDING THE RECESSION.

You're flogging a dead horse here koheesti. Yes it had a small effect. Less so than pubs being demolished to make way for residential housing for example. A quick buck wins out much of the time due to these lax regulations.

The smoking ban and cheap supermarket booze are by far the main reasons.

You're flogging a dead horse here koheesti.

Yes, but while I was away I was getting flogged here from three sides so I had to flog back at least once.

And...2-3 yr olds WILL NOT use what happened to them at that age to determine who they give their business to when they are adults. Full stop.

You didn't even read my reasoning, otherwise you wouldn't have made such a comment. I've wasted enough time.

I read your reasoning and agree with koheesti. Your theory will probably have little bearing on her decisions on as an adult. My family always flew United, but as soon as I started buying my own plane tickets and realized that I could get the same thing at a cheaper price, I changed to other airlines.

May I respectfully request that you re-read it then UG. Because this is what I said.

In the case of Airlines, the incentive consists of things like Air Miles and membership levels. As long as the prices don't vary too much and the route is available,

You're flogging a dead horse here koheesti.

Yes, but while I was away I was getting flogged here from three sides so I had to flog back at least once.

You ask for links but refuse to read them. You choose to ignore the opinions of people who actually live in the place that you're talking about. You talk about 'flogging back'. I did think that Bedlam was a place where people of different opinions exchanged views. You seem to think that it's a place where people compete to 'win' some sort of competition.

And...2-3 yr olds WILL NOT use what happened to them at that age to determine who they give their business to when they are adults. Full stop.

You didn't even read my reasoning, otherwise you wouldn't have made such a comment. I've wasted enough time.

I read your reasoning and agree with koheesti.

There's a novelty

Nothing to do with logic. It's another conspiracy.

You're flogging a dead horse here koheesti.

Yes, but while I was away I was getting flogged here from three sides so I had to flog back at least once.

You ask for links but refuse to read them. You choose to ignore the opinions of people who actually live in the place that you're talking about. You talk about 'flogging back'. I did think that Bedlam was a place where people of different opinions exchanged views. You seem to think that it's a place where people compete to 'win' some sort of competition.

First of all, I never click on links without summaries. It almost always turns out to be a waste of time. In this case, had the summary been the very beginning, it woudl have shown the person posting them that smoking was only one of 6 reasons which included the recession. That link probably wouldn't have been posted at that point.

Second, I was right that the links wouldn't show what the person who posted them presumed they would. I must admit, I was surprised when they proved me right instead of just not addressing the topic. As the links showed, I apparently DID KNOW more about the situation than the people who lived there (or at one time).

You seem to think this is a place where you can come on, make unsubstantiated claims and statements and expect no one to hold you to it. Sorry. And next time, read the links yourself before sticking your nose in and being made to look silly.

I'm done with this now. The horse is sufficiently dead. It's already way off topic and I don't expect this banter of ours to last the day.

I apparently DID KNOW more about the situation than the people who lived there (or at one time).

If you truly belive that, you are seriously deluded.

You're flogging a dead horse here koheesti.

Yes, but while I was away I was getting flogged here from three sides so I had to flog back at least once.

You ask for links but refuse to read them. You choose to ignore the opinions of people who actually live in the place that you're talking about. You talk about 'flogging back'. I did think that Bedlam was a place where people of different opinions exchanged views. You seem to think that it's a place where people compete to 'win' some sort of competition.

First of all, I never click on links without summaries. It almost always turns out to be a waste of time. In this case, had the summary been the very beginning, it woudl have shown the person posting them that smoking was only one of 6 reasons which included the recession. That link probably wouldn't have been posted at that point.

Second, I was right that the links wouldn't show what the person who posted them presumed they would. I must admit, I was surprised when they proved me right instead of just not addressing the topic. As the links showed, I apparently DID KNOW more about the situation than the people who lived there (or at one time).

You seem to think this is a place where you can come on, make unsubstantiated claims and statements and expect no one to hold you to it. Sorry. And next time, read the links yourself before sticking your nose in and being made to look silly.

I'm done with this now. The horse is sufficiently dead. It's already way off topic and I don't expect this banter of ours to last the day.

The fact remains that you asked for links and, when presented with them, refused to read them.

I apparently DID KNOW more about the situation than the people who lived there (or at one time).

If you truly belive that, you are seriously deluded.

He's just trying to wind us up now mate. Time to move on.

I will say that endure's comment is correct and without singling out koheesti in partcular there are posters here who do argue a point to the death believing they are scoring points off of supposed opponents.

Well as endure has pointed out there are those of us who would like to have intelligent conversation...not based on links but more on personal experience and knowledge.

By conversation I mean listening to others views and trying to understand their viewpoint rather than beat them down.

I apparently DID KNOW more about the situation than the people who lived there (or at one time).

If you truly belive that, you are seriously deluded.

He's just trying to wind us up now mate. Time to move on.

I will say that endure's comment is correct and without singling out koheesti in partcular there are posters here who do argue a point to the death believing they are scoring points off of supposed opponents.

Well as endure has pointed out there are those of us who would like to have intelligent conversation...not based on links but more on personal experience and knowledge.

By conversation I mean listening to others views and trying to understand their viewpoint rather than beat them down.

I'm trying to wind you three up? You three have been trying to wind me up after being shown to be clearly mistaken. The correct thing to do is admit it instead of all this phony take the high road crap. Yeah, yeah, I didn't read the links at first and when I did, the reason I gave for not reading in the first palce was proved correct and it was obvious you three didn't read them either because they proved you wrong.

I'm still amazed this sideshow has been allowed to go on so long. I guess the mods are on a holiday.

The mods aren't on holiday. Let things get nasty and some posters will be, though.

By conversation I mean listening to others views and trying to understand their viewpoint rather than beat them down.

But beating down on koheesti is somehow OK?

I apparently DID KNOW more about the situation than the people who lived there (or at one time).

If you truly belive that, you are seriously deluded.

He's just trying to wind us up now mate. Time to move on.

I will say that endure's comment is correct and without singling out koheesti in partcular there are posters here who do argue a point to the death believing they are scoring points off of supposed opponents.

Well as endure has pointed out there are those of us who would like to have intelligent conversation...not based on links but more on personal experience and knowledge.

By conversation I mean listening to others views and trying to understand their viewpoint rather than beat them down.

I'm trying to wind you three up? You three have been trying to wind me up after being shown to be clearly mistaken. The correct thing to do is admit it instead of all this phony take the high road crap. Yeah, yeah, I didn't read the links at first and when I did, the reason I gave for not reading in the first palce was proved correct and it was obvious you three didn't read them either because they proved you wrong.

QED

Hey!! How about discussing your opinions on whether keeping kids out of the First Class section of a plane is a good idea or not?

Personally I cannot recall seeing kids in First Class, but then most of the time I'm flying coach. When I have flown First, it's been kid-free and very pleasant.

Over to you.

Hey!! How about discussing your opinions on whether keeping kids out of the First Class section of a plane is a good idea or not?

Personally I cannot recall seeing kids in First Class, but then most of the time I'm flying coach. When I have flown First, it's been kid-free and very pleasant.

Over to you.

When I fly first...which isn't often...I use Emirates. Private cabins are great...no idea if Beckham or Blair are sitting next to me....which is how I like it!

I wish they had had airmiles when i was three. I would have been able to fly around the world a few times free at my now age - 18ish.

About smoking and pubs. I have the privilege of living in the middle of Europe. The outside terraces open at the beginning of March and stay open until the beginning of November. After that there are always a couple of tables and chairs out there.

In Scotland they have heaters outside the pubs. Unfortunately in Swissland they are against the law, but we just wrap up warmly and go for it.

Back on the subject of the kiddie thing - I must say that I am guilty of being the person who runs up and down an airplane with a toddler who is not my own - just to give the parents a wee shut eye!!! Rather have a giggly kid than a cantankerous one....

But, I do get the evil eye from other passengers thinking the wee one is mine...!!!

And you, dear Patsycat, are a gift from the Gods. There really is a true shortage of nice people at 39,000 feet. You are the exception.

Reckon I may be selfish, but......

Having an 85 decibel hearing loss, noisy rugrats are no problem.

Having hearing aids allows me uninterrupted video, music sounds......woteva

All sound is transmitted electronically to my ears.

No extraneous noises at all, a world of my own.

The aides have bluetooth as well, brilliant with cell phones, no hands at anytime..

Deafness has some good points.

Reckon I may be selfish, but......

Looking at your signature box, you must be deluded as well as hard-of-hearing.

All Blacks for the RWC? Never!

The team that wins may be wearing black, but with a red rose in place of the silver fern.

(that'll teach you buggers to wear white as your alternate strip )