This is a topic that might be of interest to some of our posters. It is on Yahoo, and this guy is helping to build libertarian Islands, like oil rigs, in international waters, away from the laws, rules and regulations of countries.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/silicon-valley-billionaire-funding-creation-artificial-libertarian-islands-140840896.html

Can something like this work? How would it work?

Love the comments after the article.

The billionaire chappy only put $1.25 million into it....obviously he isn't taking it too seriously.

I'm sceptical. The overall concept is interesting, but I think it would take years to go through an interview cum testing process to ensure that all the "citizen immigrants" would be suitable.

What I mean is...it could work for the right selection of people, but disasterous for the wrong mix.....people being what they are.

If they built such an island and asked me to preside over it.....that would be ok....but again, a stringent selection process would have to be imposed....anyone whose name is Jessica and last name Alba or Biel get huge concessions.

Interesting

Wonder how it stands up against raging seas?

They state it is "floating"

I see it is a model in its current state

It will be interesting to see if it goes live.

Bit of waterworld

What will they do for energy?

Everything other than seawater will need to be imported and that will make it expensive. I wonder what the residents will do for work and who will pay them so they can afford everything?

They might need more space for private boats and yachts.

The idea is for these countries to start from scratch--free from the laws, regulations, and moral codes of any existing place

i am sure he would be better of buying parts of Samui , Pattaya or Phuket

What will they do for energy?

Everything other than seawater will need to be imported and that will make it expensive. I wonder what the residents will do for work and who will pay them so they can afford everything?

They might need more space for private boats and yachts.

I would suggest that they can develop hydroponic farming for basic foodstuffs, use wave energy to generate power. Probably work by distance computer links, even develop their own necessary work programmes. And if they anchor over a mid-ocean oil/gas source - who gets the development rights?

Personally, though, I would suggest it would be better to populate such places with economic migrants and London rioters - they developed Australia, New Zealand and the US in this way - don't let the rich have it all.

What will they do for energy?

Everything other than seawater will need to be imported and that will make it expensive. I wonder what the residents will do for work and who will pay them so they can afford everything?

They might need more space for private boats and yachts.

Good questions. HB gave good answers, too.

My scepticism mentioned previously had an element of HB's scenario in it (as I interpreted)......a bunch of New Agers, dedicatedly happy to live on algae- tofu and plankton burgers while the seaweed harvest matures.

Good on 'em.

I think it's feasible, for some people, but it's not an answer to the woes of the global society.

I suspect that it's isolationism and is not beneficial to mankind in general......maybe not harmful (so good on 'em), but not beneficial either (in other words, let them do what they want, but don't sponsor them if they are truly just isolationist.).

It will be an interesting science experiment to observe for many disciplines.

They could just sail around waiting for a new island to form and claim it:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/21/tonga-volcano-island-nuku-alofa

Anyway, it looks like it would be pretty easy to invade and take control of when finished. Even a tiny country might be able to pull it off.

Pie in the sky (or rather, in the sea).

Pie in the sky (or rather, in the sea).

Yep. Dreamers.

Just can't imagine how this would work in practice. Libertarianism is great when resources are abundant and everyone can grab everything they want, pretend that greed is actually a virtue and that it is possible to have freedom without responsibility. But what resources would they have here except for a limited fishing industry?

What would a libertarian community do when it was clear that there was a war going on and they didn't own a battleship big enough to get their supply ships through? And when they realized that this condition was likely to persist into the indefinite future?

The very idea of rationing is absolutely antithetical with the ideology they founded these platforms on. The only solution compatible with libertarian values would be pistols at dawn I guess.

There is no way a libertarian community would survive a protracted period of limited resources. It would devolve quickly into fascism. Even if they did overcome the engineering challenges to build these things, the upcoming crisis in the world would render them uninhabitable.

Quite a funny idea, I had similar ideas when I was in high school. Later I learned that every society (from the nuclear family up to multi-million countries) makes up their laws and rules, and these will be enforced. The more people you have, the more problems you have. Not everybody is a good person, what do you do with the bad ones?

If they say that libertarianism is the basis, they already restrict democracy. Of course, every country can choose that. Some countries choose absolute monarchy, others choose communism, again other choose bicameral parliaments with separate heads of state and of government. So if they choose Lib, what if people are of different opinions in details, or even on some basics, which will occur when the external political or environmental situations change?

As was already mentioned, resources are scarce, and there will be no national defense.

All a nice dream, worth analyzing as a high school project.

As was already mentioned, resources are scarce, and there will be no national defense.

All a nice dream, worth analyzing as a high school project.

Remember "The Mouse that Roared"?

A new country doesn't need resources or national defense. They can declare war on the US, surrender to the US when the first soldier lands and then request foreign aid and sign a bilateral defense treaty with the US.

Viola! All problems solved since foreign aid in copious amounts will be flowing in and the 8th Fleet will be stationed off your island to prevent anybody else from attacking it.

As was already mentioned, resources are scarce, and there will be no national defense.

All a nice dream, worth analyzing as a high school project.

Remember "The Mouse that Roared"?

A new country doesn't need resources or national defense. They can declare war on the US, surrender to the US when the first soldier lands and then request foreign aid and sign a bilateral defense treaty with the US.

Viola! All problems solved since foreign aid in copious amounts will be flowing in and the 8th Fleet will be stationed off your island to prevent anybody else from attacking it.

You have missed the point entirely. In your scenario, they would not be libertarians. A group of refugee types might like your scenario though.

You have, however, highlighted the sad irony of the phrase, "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".

As was already mentioned, resources are scarce, and there will be no national defense.

All a nice dream, worth analyzing as a high school project.

Remember "The Mouse that Roared"?

A new country doesn't need resources or national defense. They can declare war on the US, surrender to the US when the first soldier lands and then request foreign aid and sign a bilateral defense treaty with the US.

Viola! All problems solved since foreign aid in copious amounts will be flowing in and the 8th Fleet will be stationed off your island to prevent anybody else from attacking it.

Actually, I don't remember "The Mouse that Roared" but had to google for it. Great satire on the Cold War! I will look for the book or the movie.

Nowadays though, any superpower would put a pineapple plantation on it and exploit it. Oops, the small country in the book is located between France and Switzerland, so they will just buy the wine plantations and employ the locals at minimum wage. Then, they would force the government to reduce minimum wage to the poverty line.

Next, the superpower will build an airbase there, and of course, since we are talking about small islands in the ocean, a naval base. This will create jobs and bring wealth, even though the libertarian principles might have to be compromised at one stage.

Unless, of course, foreign aid comes without any requests in return, and superpowers are here to altruistically save the world.

As was already mentioned, resources are scarce, and there will be no national defense.

All a nice dream, worth analyzing as a high school project.

Remember "The Mouse that Roared"?

A new country doesn't need resources or national defense. They can declare war on the US, surrender to the US when the first soldier lands and then request foreign aid and sign a bilateral defense treaty with the US.

Viola! All problems solved since foreign aid in copious amounts will be flowing in and the 8th Fleet will be stationed off your island to prevent anybody else from attacking it.

Actually, I don't remember "The Mouse that Roared" but had to google for it. Great satire on the Cold War! I will look for the book or the movie.

Nowadays though, any superpower would put a pineapple plantation on it and exploit it. Oops, the small country in the book is located between France and Switzerland, so they will just buy the wine plantations and employ the locals at minimum wage. Then, they would force the government to reduce minimum wage to the poverty line.

Next, the superpower will build an airbase there, and of course, since we are talking about small islands in the ocean, a naval base. This will create jobs and bring wealth, even though the libertarian principles might have to be compromised at one stage.

Unless, of course, foreign aid comes without any requests in return, and superpowers are here to altruistically save the world.

You have just nailed the intended purpose of the US State Department with this statement/question.

"Unless, of course, foreign aid comes without any requests in return, and superpowers are here to altruistically save the world."

Off-topic posts have been deleted. Please stick to the topic.

We Brits already have one since 1967

http://www.sealandgov.org/

I think they should add a 'New' in front of the name. Probably get a lot more visitors.

We Brits already have one since 1967

http://www.sealandgov.org/

Nice link. But it is remarkably shy about precise information.... exact location, size, population. The so-called coins and stamps are only valid on the island (if it exists) like those of Lundy Island were... really tokens and labels. And it can't be very libertarian if it has a Prince.

L

We Brits already have one since 1967

http://www.sealandgov.org/

First things I see:

Click Here To Enter The Official Shop

and

Become an Official Supporter of Sealand

Looks Like a standard commercial plan to me, cannot find anything libertarian about it.

Except that I don't know how to get rid of this font colour any more...

I think they should add a 'New' in front of the name. Probably get a lot more visitors.

Nah....what's in a name? You have to have silly flightless birds, tatooed warriors, geysers, and Hobbiton,

L

We Brits already have one since 1967

http://www.sealandgov.org/

First things I see:

Click Here To Enter The Official Shop

and

Become an Official Supporter of Sealand

Looks Like a standard commercial plan to me, cannot find anything libertarian about it.

Except that I don't know how to get rid of this font colour any more...

It's not libertarian at all. Only 1 family lives there. And beyond that, it is currently nothing more than a smoldering pile of rubble because a fire reduced it to a burnt out shell. They've been accepting "donations" to rebuild for years. Their original idea was to make a server farm there guaranteed to be free of all government spying.

But Sealand is an interesting case study because they have all the court documents from the UK proving that they are in fact not under their jurisdiction. Sealand has not been recognized as a country by any sovereign nation however. And I seriously doubt these libertarian platforms would be signing any treaties either, should they ever be built.

It is simply a way that the wealthy think they can avoid taxes. The Somali pirates might eventually be successful in convincing them of their foolishness.

They seem to have a little problem:

"In 1987, the UK extended its territorial waters from three to twelve miles. Sealand now sits inside waters that Britain claims as its territory.^["

Source: http://en.wikipedia....lity_of_Sealand

Anyway, the more I read about Sealand, the more it sounds like a broken dream.

Which, I predict, will be the same for the libertarian islands in the OP.