Panel Looking Into Thaksin Petition Has Vested Interests

[Lite Beer]

Panel looking into petition has vested interests

By The Nation on Sunday

Although all members of the committee to check and screen the petition seeking a royal pardon for former PM Thaksin Shinawatra have good track records and are honourable, after looking at those records it cannot be fully denied that the committee has been set up to solve problems for "the Dubai boss".

Assoc Professor Wuthisak Lapcharoensap, rector-to-be of Ramkhamhaeng University, has allegedly been promoted to the university top post because of his close ties with Prachuab Chaiyasarn, father of Deputy Public Health Minister Torpong Chaiyasarn.

Former Constitution Court judge Jumpol na Songkhla was a member of a judge panel that was part of the majority that ruled Thaksin not guilty in the assets concealment case.

Education Council secretary-general Tongthong Chantarangsu had voiced his opinion in favour of Thaksin over the controversy surrounding merit-making at the Temple of the Emerald Buddha.

Tongthong was assigned to take good care of the three former Election Commissioners who were jailed at the Bangkok Special Prison. Reports had it that the three were given special treatment compared to other prisoners. Even though Tongthong was supported by the Somchai Wongsawat government, he failed to get promoted to the post of permanent secretary at the Justice Ministry. However, since the Thaksin camp's return to power, Tongthong is tipped as Cabinet secretary-general, replacing Ampol Kittiampon.

Justice Ministry inspector Natti Jitsawang was outstanding in the Corrections Department but was transferred out of the department after the Thaksin government was brought down by a coup because he was seen as having too close ties with the Thaksin camp.

He was transferred back to the Corrections Department when the People Power Party formed the government before being transferred to an inactive post by Democrat Pirapan Salirathavibhaga as inspector before his retirement at the end of September.

Special Litigation Department director-general Thanapit Mulapruek had earlier backed the Thaksin camp over the two-and three-digit lottery scheme and the rubber saplings case. However, he did not support the indictment of the red shirts on terrorism charges and disapproved of the Department of Special Investigation's move to revoke bails of the red-shirt leaders.

Meanwhile, opposition Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday warned the government against applying "double standards" regarding the petition seeking royal amnesty for Thaksin.

He said that in the past there had been no petition seeking royal pardon for a person who escaped imprisonment.

Thaksin has been in exile overseas to avoid a two-year imprisonment handed down by the Supreme Court for abuse of authority over his wife's purchase of state-owned land.

Abhisit, who headed the previous administration, said he saw no need to set up a committee to deal with Thaksin's petition. "The government should treat Thaksin's case in the same way as the cases against other Thais. Don't allow double standards," he said.

Democrat Party spokesman Chavanont Intornkomalsut said the government's move to set up this committee was aimed at misleading the public with information in order to get public support in helping bring Thaksin home without having to serve a jail term.

"Appointing so many people to pressure the petition process is not right. It would have been enough if only three or four relatives of Thaksin signed the petition. There is no need to use the signatures of 3 million to 4 million people to put pressure on state agencies. This is formidable. Their intention may be more than just helping Thaksin," he said.

-- The Nation 2022-09-11

[janverbeem]

Well,if that isn't a surprise

At least they had to guts not to have the panel seated with all family members.

[chainarong]

Whats new. I'm very sorry, good people of the world, I'm totally negative on Thai politics

[hammered]

Did Manoonkrit receive a pardon?

[Crushdepth]

I'm shocked.

[geriatrickid]

Did Manoonkrit receive a pardon?

Yes, and it was while he was in exile. No jail time served. General Manoonkrit's crimes were far more serious than Thaksin, as his coup of 1985 had significant bloodshed. He also had a history of participating in the coups of 1976 and 1977. His track record went bad in the coup attempts of 1981 and 1985. Maybe that's why he ran for senate leader and was closely aligned with the Democrats. A rather nasty piece of work he was. His colleague General Surayud who was accused of ordering the death of Bangkok residents also received a pardon. No trial, no jail time in that case.

He's not alone, as General Suchinda who was a PM and harshly put down protests in 1995 also received a pardon without jail time. He gave Thailand Black May with dead bodies littering the streets.

Unfortunately, the precedent for seeking a pardon was set long ago by the Thai armed forces. This is something that the people saying Thaksin is being accorded special treatment don't grasp. If anything, Thaksin is not getting special treatment otherwise he would have had his pardon as quickly as those implicated in the past coups and deaths of Thai citizens received theirs. It might be wrong in a farang's view, but it is not unusual or really that special, particulalry since Thaksin is a non violent alleged offender.

[anon7867763]

Did Manoonkrit receive a pardon?

Yes, and it was while he was in exile. No jail time served. General Manoonkrit's crimes were far more serious than Thaksin, as his coup of 1985 had significant bloodshed. He also had a history of participating in the coups of 1976 and 1977. His track record went bad in the coup attempts of 1981 and 1985. Maybe that's why he ran for senate leader and was closely aligned with the Democrats. A rather nasty piece of work he was. His colleague General Surayud who was accused of ordering the death of Bangkok residents also received a pardon. No trial, no jail time in that case.

He's not alone, as General Suchinda who was a PM and harshly put down protests in 1995 also received a pardon without jail time. He gave Thailand Black May with dead bodies littering the streets.

Unfortunately, the precedent for seeking a pardon was set long ago by the Thai armed forces. This is something that the people saying Thaksin is being accorded special treatment don't grasp. If anything, Thaksin is not getting special treatment otherwise he would have had his pardon as quickly as those implicated in the past coups and deaths of Thai citizens received theirs. It might be wrong in a farang's view, but it is not unusual or really that special, particulalry since Thaksin is a non violent alleged offender.

particulalry since Thaksin is a non violent alleged offender. - Non violent ? Only killed a few thousand 5555555 next your going to tell us he's a pacifist !!! 55555555555555555555555555555555555555555

[SICHONSTEVE]

Whats new. I'm very sorry, good people of the world, I'm totally negative on Thai politics

What's new??? This has been posted by you before on a similar thread, so I don't know exacty what you are trying to prove by this nothing post of yours!!!. You could say that I'm negative on your pointless postings!!

Edited September 11, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE

[SICHONSTEVE]

Did Manoonkrit receive a pardon?

Yes, and it was while he was in exile. No jail time served. General Manoonkrit's crimes were far more serious than Thaksin, as his coup of 1985 had significant bloodshed. He also had a history of participating in the coups of 1976 and 1977. His track record went bad in the coup attempts of 1981 and 1985. Maybe that's why he ran for senate leader and was closely aligned with the Democrats. A rather nasty piece of work he was. His colleague General Surayud who was accused of ordering the death of Bangkok residents also received a pardon. No trial, no jail time in that case.

He's not alone, as General Suchinda who was a PM and harshly put down protests in 1995 also received a pardon without jail time. He gave Thailand Black May with dead bodies littering the streets.

Unfortunately, the precedent for seeking a pardon was set long ago by the Thai armed forces. This is something that the people saying Thaksin is being accorded special treatment don't grasp. If anything, Thaksin is not getting special treatment otherwise he would have had his pardon as quickly as those implicated in the past coups and deaths of Thai citizens received theirs. It might be wrong in a farang's view, but it is not unusual or really that special, particulalry since Thaksin is a non violent alleged offender.

particulalry since Thaksin is a non violent alleged offender. - Non violent ? Only killed a few thousand 5555555 next your going to tell us he's a pacifist !!! 55555555555555555555555555555555555555555

Aproximately 2,500 with 1,400 accepted as being innocents either in the wrong place at the wrong time or killed to get the numbers up as those area officers who recorded numbers below their target were punished whereas those that had "bumper" amounts of peope bumped off were promoted!!!!!!!

[renaissanc]

The committee is simply window dressing. Thaksin will be back soon. The committee will find a precedent and they will use it to explain to the country why Thaksin can be brought back and forgiven legally. Who are we to say we know the laws better. The only unknown is the exact month when the street violence will start - when Thaksin's Red Army opposes with violence the regular street demonstrations that will come with his return. When the shooting and bombs start, of course, Jatuporn and Natthawut will be there to tell us that the Red Army has no weapons, and that the Invisible Hand was behind the deaths. ... and the people will believe them!

[scorecard]

Did Manoonkrit receive a pardon?

Yes, and it was while he was in exile. No jail time served. General Manoonkrit's crimes were far more serious than Thaksin, as his coup of 1985 had significant bloodshed. He also had a history of participating in the coups of 1976 and 1977. His track record went bad in the coup attempts of 1981 and 1985. Maybe that's why he ran for senate leader and was closely aligned with the Democrats. A rather nasty piece of work he was. His colleague General Surayud who was accused of ordering the death of Bangkok residents also received a pardon. No trial, no jail time in that case.

He's not alone, as General Suchinda who was a PM and harshly put down protests in 1995 also received a pardon without jail time. He gave Thailand Black May with dead bodies littering the streets.

Unfortunately, the precedent for seeking a pardon was set long ago by the Thai armed forces. This is something that the people saying Thaksin is being accorded special treatment don't grasp. If anything, Thaksin is not getting special treatment otherwise he would have had his pardon as quickly as those implicated in the past coups and deaths of Thai citizens received theirs. It might be wrong in a farang's view, but it is not unusual or really that special, particulalry since Thaksin is a non violent alleged offender.

Thaksin "non violent", again you are seriously untruthful.

Even if suchinda, who was a nasty piece of work, and others did not get punished that does not automatically mean thaksin should not get punished.

Suchinda is as guilty as sin, I was here, I remember well being told, in the early afternoon, to rush home as fast as you can, and stay indoors until there is a pool media announcement that people can come outside. There can be no doubt that powerful people pulled strings / intimidated people to ensure he was not punished, and unfortunately there are many more similar examples in history.

That does not mean that thaksin should also not be punished, he also is guilty of multiply serious matters, including his involvement in the deaths of some 2,500 people in his war on drugs and his involvement in the 300 or more tak bai deaths.

Also, don't forget general sunthorn, suchinda's nasty buddy who just after the coup handed thaksin a telecoms licence, no bidding, nothing. Thaksin likes to now claim that he is anti-coup, funny how he changes his mind like the wind when it suits him personally, and he thinks the public is stupid enough to believe him. And including reversing major investment laws to suit his wallet big time.

At some time in history the tide turns and proper punishment starts to be handed out. If thaksin is in the first wave of people who start to get proper punishment then that's simply bad luck.

I ask you geriatrickid, if someone viciously murders a member of your family in cold blood will you say, "never mind, other murderers have not been punished so it would be unfair to punish this murderer!"

I certainly hope not.

Edited September 11, 2011 by scorecard

[MILT]

Whats new. I'm very sorry, good people of the world, I'm totally negative on Thai politics

What's new??? This has been posted by you before on a similar thread, so I don't know exacty what you are trying to prove by this nothing post of yours!!!. You could say that I'm negative on your pointless postings!!

now now Play nice or the powers to be will give you scoldings

[Lite Beer]

Chalerm offers no opinion over the petition for a royal pardon for Thaksin

BANGKOK, 11 September 2011 (NNT)-Deputy Prime Minister Pol Capt Chalerm Yubamrung refused to comment on the petition for a royal pardon for an exiled leader, Mr. Thaksin Shinawatra, saying that he had already given his opinions regarding this matter.

Pol. Capt Chalerm further added that if the Opposition Party disagreed with the royal pardon for Mr. Thaksin, they could raise this issue during the no-confidence debate. Meanwhile, the Deputy Prime Minister said the Office of Narcotics Control Board will begin its drug eradication which is expected to achieve its goal within 10 days.

In addition, Defense Minister General Yutthasak Sasiprapa, Army Chief General Prayuth Chanocha and Army Deputy Chief of Staff Lt-Gen Dapong Rattanasuwan have met with Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra to find the solution to the flood situation. Ms. Yingluck will next travel to Uttaradit province with related Ministers to visit residents who have been affected by floods and mudslides.

-- NNT 2011-09-11

[Crushdepth]

Did Manoonkrit receive a pardon?

Yes, and it was while he was in exile. No jail time served. General Manoonkrit's crimes were far more serious than Thaksin, as his coup of 1985 had significant bloodshed. He also had a history of participating in the coups of 1976 and 1977. His track record went bad in the coup attempts of 1981 and 1985. Maybe that's why he ran for senate leader and was closely aligned with the Democrats. A rather nasty piece of work he was. His colleague General Surayud who was accused of ordering the death of Bangkok residents also received a pardon. No trial, no jail time in that case.

He's not alone, as General Suchinda who was a PM and harshly put down protests in 1995 also received a pardon without jail time. He gave Thailand Black May with dead bodies littering the streets.

Unfortunately, the precedent for seeking a pardon was set long ago by the Thai armed forces. This is something that the people saying Thaksin is being accorded special treatment don't grasp. If anything, Thaksin is not getting special treatment otherwise he would have had his pardon as quickly as those implicated in the past coups and deaths of Thai citizens received theirs. It might be wrong in a farang's view, but it is not unusual or really that special, particulalry since Thaksin is a non violent alleged offender.

So it must be ok to give Thaksin a pardon too? And whoever leaves blood on the floor next time? In case you haven't noticed, the expectations of Thai society has progressed to some small degree.

Personally I think you'd have to be one weight short of a shipwreck to believe that Thaksin didn't have a hand in the violence.

[geriatrickid]

Aproximately 2,500 with 1,400 accepted as being innocents either in the wrong place at the wrong time or killed to get the numbers up as those area officers who recorded numbers below their target were punished whereas those that had "bumper" amounts of peope bumped off were promoted!!!!!!!

The issue of the drug war has been discussed at length in other threads. There was a significant difference between the loss of life that occurred during the suppression of armed criminal gangs and the the mounting of violent illegal coups. The key difference is that there was no intent to kill innocent people by the government when the drug curtailment program started. If there were people killed in error by the government, the responsibility lies with the police and military officials that were responsible for the anti drug cartel program

As an aside, the numbers used by you and others takes into account all of the deaths. It does not account for the daily death rates due to the drug cartel activities leading up to the crackdown. As I explained in another thread, the drug related deaths fell off significantly after the crackdown. The fact of the matter is that the inflated number you cite as being due to the government response to the narco criminal gangs were in fact reflective of the people dying on a daily basis as the drug gangs fought it out for turf, with the police and with each other. To dumb it down, the number would have been greater had there not been a crackdown. Don't believe me? Go and look at the mortality rates leading up to the intervention and then compare them to the period after the intervention. Not one person in TVF has ever acknowledged the mortality timeline. Instead, simplistic accusations are splattered about.

Even if you wish to personally blame Mr. Thaksin, and there was no legal culpability ever determined, but even if you want to throw that canard into the discussion, one can hardly compare the drug campaign with coup leaders that gave orders to fire into crowds of civilians. There was a significant difference. If you cannot understand the difference, then nothing I write can change your view. However, even if you want to blame Mr. Thaksin, the fact of the matter is that the precedent was set by the military with the pardons given to the generals. A pardon was given to the man responsible for Black May. If you were here at the time, then surely you understand that civilians were being shot indiscriminately and in great numbers with crowds being targeted.

You have ignored the fact that the generals were pardoned. Deal with it. No one can ever say that the request for a pardon is out of the ordinary because pardons have been given before.

[Buchholz]

No one can ever say that the request for a pardon is out of the ordinary because pardons have been given before.

That doesn't apply to anyone being convicted in court, be it the Supreme Court, as in the case with Thaksin, or any other court for that matter.

That's never occurred before.

A pardon not in compliance by being requested by the allowable persons to do so, such as is the case with the Red Shirts, has also never occurred before.

.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Buchholz

[geriatrickid]

So it must be ok to give Thaksin a pardon too? And whoever leaves blood on the floor next time? In case you haven't noticed, the expectations of Thai society has progressed to some small degree.

Personally I think you'd have to be one weight short of a shipwreck to believe that Thaksin didn't have a hand in the violence.

It doesn't matter what you think. What matters is the law. If you or anyone else believes that Mr. Thaksin is responsible for the violence then go and make your case in court. Accusations are made and yet no one ever backs up the claim. What governs the basis for requesting a pardon is if it is allowed in law. If it is allowed ,then it is the SOLE perogative of HM the King to decide. The allegations you make have no nearing in the pardon decision which is in respect to the conviction on a financial administrative nmatter. I have confidence that the right decision will be made and in case you missed it, the wheels of this process were set in motion long ago. As I stated repeatedly in other threads there was a long procession of important people that either met with the former PM or who had sent emissaries. The ongoing saga with Thaksin is a festering wound. It needs to be healed and quickly. To a westerner, the issue stinks. However, that westerner doesn't appreciate that in Thailand the assumed enemies may actually be allies whilst uninvolved parties are deep in the mix. Need an example? The general that was pardoned and then went on to become the Democrats darling in the Senate led his coup against General Prem. There are some very powerful people onside with the proposed pardon that some assume are anti Thaksin.

You and others dislike Thaksin. Fine, I get it. The case will be argued in law, not on farang emotions. This isn't facebook where you can like or unlike, friend or unfriend someone.

[Valentine]

No one can ever say that the request for a pardon is out of the ordinary because pardons have been given before.

That doesn't apply to anyone being convicted in court, be it the Supreme Court, as in the case with Thaksin, or any other court for that matter.

That's never occurred before.

A pardon not in compliance by being requested by the allowable persons to do so, such as is the case with the Red Shirts, has also never occurred before.

.

I believe the generals were not convicted by a court as is the case with Mr T. Forget about comparisons between the crimes & popular mandates. Mr T was convicted in a court of law & did not appeal. He has since shown no remorse nor offered an apology which seems to be the norm for those who receive a royal pardon apart from the fact that those who do receive pardons are in jail. I believe Mr T is trying to get an amnesty such as those which the generals bestow on themselves after a coup.

[kraplung]

Why does everyone still think that just because Thaksin has his friends and family running the government, the police and sitting on panels in judgement on him that they will not be completely independent in their actions?

Haven't you heard? This is the land of Miracles now.

Edited September 11, 2011 by kraplung

[MILT]

Aproximately 2,500 with 1,400 accepted as being innocents either in the wrong place at the wrong time or killed to get the numbers up as those area officers who recorded numbers below their target were punished whereas those that had "bumper" amounts of peope bumped off were promoted!!!!!!!

The issue of the drug war has been discussed at length in other threads. There was a significant difference between the loss of life that occurred during the suppression of armed criminal gangs and the the mounting of violent illegal coups. The key difference is that there was no intent to kill innocent people by the government when the drug curtailment program started. If there were people killed in error by the government, the responsibility lies with the police and military officials that were responsible for the anti drug cartel program

As an aside, the numbers used by you and others takes into account all of the deaths. It does not account for the daily death rates due to the drug cartel activities leading up to the crackdown. As I explained in another thread, the drug related deaths fell off significantly after the crackdown. The fact of the matter is that the inflated number you cite as being due to the government response to the narco criminal gangs were in fact reflective of the people dying on a daily basis as the drug gangs fought it out for turf, with the police and with each other. To dumb it down, the number would have been greater had there not been a crackdown. Don't believe me? Go and look at the mortality rates leading up to the intervention and then compare them to the period after the intervention. Not one person in TVF has ever acknowledged the mortality timeline. Instead, simplistic accusations are splattered about.

Even if you wish to personally blame Mr. Thaksin, and there was no legal culpability ever determined, but even if you want to throw that canard into the discussion, one can hardly compare the drug campaign with coup leaders that gave orders to fire into crowds of civilians. There was a significant difference. If you cannot understand the difference, then nothing I write can change your view. However, even if you want to blame Mr. Thaksin, the fact of the matter is that the precedent was set by the military with the pardons given to the generals. A pardon was given to the man responsible for Black May. If you were here at the time, then surely you understand that civilians were being shot indiscriminately and in great numbers with crowds being targeted.

You have ignored the fact that the generals were pardoned. Deal with it. No one can ever say that the request for a pardon is out of the ordinary because pardons have been given before.

I was living here at the time of the crackdown ordered by Thaskin and carried out by the police. Simple fact peoples names went on a list and then died. No day in court. Yes the police said it was gangs killing each other but since when do the police have that kind of credibility? I watched it happen on the Television where a gang of drug dealers were executed in a shack while they were handcuffed and the police excuse was they tried to get away. The Policeman in charge of that nightmare went to jail for that act. This is a fact and no amount of statistical brake down can change this fact.

Edited September 11, 2011 by MILT

[kraplung]

Aproximately 2,500 with 1,400 accepted as being innocents either in the wrong place at the wrong time or killed to get the numbers up as those area officers who recorded numbers below their target were punished whereas those that had "bumper" amounts of peope bumped off were promoted!!!!!!!

The issue of the drug war has been discussed at length in other threads. There was a significant difference between the loss of life that occurred during the suppression of armed criminal gangs and the the mounting of violent illegal coups. The key difference is that there was no intent to kill innocent people by the government when the drug curtailment program started. If there were people killed in error by the government, the responsibility lies with the police and military officials that were responsible for the anti drug cartel program

As an aside, the numbers used by you and others takes into account all of the deaths. It does not account for the daily death rates due to the drug cartel activities leading up to the crackdown. As I explained in another thread, the drug related deaths fell off significantly after the crackdown. The fact of the matter is that the inflated number you cite as being due to the government response to the narco criminal gangs were in fact reflective of the people dying on a daily basis as the drug gangs fought it out for turf, with the police and with each other. To dumb it down, the number would have been greater had there not been a crackdown. Don't believe me? Go and look at the mortality rates leading up to the intervention and then compare them to the period after the intervention. Not one person in TVF has ever acknowledged the mortality timeline. Instead, simplistic accusations are splattered about.

Even if you wish to personally blame Mr. Thaksin, and there was no legal culpability ever determined, but even if you want to throw that canard into the discussion, one can hardly compare the drug campaign with coup leaders that gave orders to fire into crowds of civilians. There was a significant difference. If you cannot understand the difference, then nothing I write can change your view. However, even if you want to blame Mr. Thaksin, the fact of the matter is that the precedent was set by the military with the pardons given to the generals. A pardon was given to the man responsible for Black May. If you were here at the time, then surely you understand that civilians were being shot indiscriminately and in great numbers with crowds being targeted.

You have ignored the fact that the generals were pardoned. Deal with it. No one can ever say that the request for a pardon is out of the ordinary because pardons have been given before.

I was living here at the time of the crackdown ordered by Thaskin and carried out by the police. Simple fact peoples names went on a list and then died. No day in court. Yes the police said it was gangs killing each other but since when do the police have that kind of credibility? I watched it happen on the Television where a gang of drug dealers were executed in a shack while they were handcuffed and the police excuse was they tried to get away. The Policeman in charge of that nightmare went to jail for that act. This is a fact and no amount of statistical brake down can change this fact.

Geriatrickid......... I really do think, as your name hints at, your faculties have deserted you whilst you remain an ingenue in the ways of Thai sen yais.

Edited September 11, 2011 by kraplung

[MILT]

Aproximately 2,500 with 1,400 accepted as being innocents either in the wrong place at the wrong time or killed to get the numbers up as those area officers who recorded numbers below their target were punished whereas those that had "bumper" amounts of peope bumped off were promoted!!!!!!!

The issue of the drug war has been discussed at length in other threads. There was a significant difference between the loss of life that occurred during the suppression of armed criminal gangs and the the mounting of violent illegal coups. The key difference is that there was no intent to kill innocent people by the government when the drug curtailment program started. If there were people killed in error by the government, the responsibility lies with the police and military officials that were responsible for the anti drug cartel program

As an aside, the numbers used by you and others takes into account all of the deaths. It does not account for the daily death rates due to the drug cartel activities leading up to the crackdown. As I explained in another thread, the drug related deaths fell off significantly after the crackdown. The fact of the matter is that the inflated number you cite as being due to the government response to the narco criminal gangs were in fact reflective of the people dying on a daily basis as the drug gangs fought it out for turf, with the police and with each other. To dumb it down, the number would have been greater had there not been a crackdown. Don't believe me? Go and look at the mortality rates leading up to the intervention and then compare them to the period after the intervention. Not one person in TVF has ever acknowledged the mortality timeline. Instead, simplistic accusations are splattered about.

Even if you wish to personally blame Mr. Thaksin, and there was no legal culpability ever determined, but even if you want to throw that canard into the discussion, one can hardly compare the drug campaign with coup leaders that gave orders to fire into crowds of civilians. There was a significant difference. If you cannot understand the difference, then nothing I write can change your view. However, even if you want to blame Mr. Thaksin, the fact of the matter is that the precedent was set by the military with the pardons given to the generals. A pardon was given to the man responsible for Black May. If you were here at the time, then surely you understand that civilians were being shot indiscriminately and in great numbers with crowds being targeted.

You have ignored the fact that the generals were pardoned. Deal with it. No one can ever say that the request for a pardon is out of the ordinary because pardons have been given before.

I was living here at the time of the crackdown ordered by Thaskin and carried out by the police. Simple fact peoples names went on a list and then died. No day in court. Yes the police said it was gangs killing each other but since when do the police have that kind of credibility? I watched it happen on the Television where a gang of drug dealers were executed in a shack while they were handcuffed and the police excuse was they tried to get away. The Policeman in charge of that nightmare went to jail for that act. This is a fact and no amount of statistical brake down can change this fact.

Gerriatrick......... I really do think, as your name hints at, your faculties are beginning to desert you.

It's not that I am out of my mind it is just what happened. There you go again Knowing it all

Edited September 11, 2011 by MILT

[SICHONSTEVE]

Aproximately 2,500 with 1,400 accepted as being innocents either in the wrong place at the wrong time or killed to get the numbers up as those area officers who recorded numbers below their target were punished whereas those that had "bumper" amounts of peope bumped off were promoted!!!!!!!

The issue of the drug war has been discussed at length in other threads. There was a significant difference between the loss of life that occurred during the suppression of armed criminal gangs and the the mounting of violent illegal coups. The key difference is that there was no intent to kill innocent people by the government when the drug curtailment program started. If there were people killed in error by the government, the responsibility lies with the police and military officials that were responsible for the anti drug cartel program

As an aside, the numbers used by you and others takes into account all of the deaths. It does not account for the daily death rates due to the drug cartel activities leading up to the crackdown. As I explained in another thread, the drug related deaths fell off significantly after the crackdown. The fact of the matter is that the inflated number you cite as being due to the government response to the narco criminal gangs were in fact reflective of the people dying on a daily basis as the drug gangs fought it out for turf, with the police and with each other. To dumb it down, the number would have been greater had there not been a crackdown. Don't believe me? Go and look at the mortality rates leading up to the intervention and then compare them to the period after the intervention. Not one person in TVF has ever acknowledged the mortality timeline. Instead, simplistic accusations are splattered about.

Even if you wish to personally blame Mr. Thaksin, and there was no legal culpability ever determined, but even if you want to throw that canard into the discussion, one can hardly compare the drug campaign with coup leaders that gave orders to fire into crowds of civilians. There was a significant difference. If you cannot understand the difference, then nothing I write can change your view. However, even if you want to blame Mr. Thaksin, the fact of the matter is that the precedent was set by the military with the pardons given to the generals. A pardon was given to the man responsible for Black May. If you were here at the time, then surely you understand that civilians were being shot indiscriminately and in great numbers with crowds being targeted.

You have ignored the fact that the generals were pardoned. Deal with it. No one can ever say that the request for a pardon is out of the ordinary because pardons have been given before.

"After the 2006 coup, the military junta ordered another investigation into the anti-drug campaign. The committee concluded that as many as 1400 of the 2500 killed had no link to drugs. However, while giving the opinion that orders to kill came from the top, the panel failed to establish sufficient evidence to charge Thaksin or anybody in the Cabinet or police force with the murders".

Any different to your opinion of orders given to fire into the crowd???

One of the most disgusting and outrageous things to come out of the "drugs purge" was this:

"setting provincial arrest and seizure targets including "blacklists", awarding government officials for achieving targets and threatening punishment for those who failed to make the quota, targeting dealers, and "ruthless" implementation".

Just how stupid was this instruction??? It's like putting a bounty on people's heads - as the numbers of people losing their life to bump up the numbers brings rewards and conversely, failing to do so results in being demoted or fired, is it then any wonder that so many innocent civilians were extrajudicially executed just to satisfy this evil tyrant's warped ego????

Finally, your statement, for the reasons given above, doesn't stack up I'm afraid.

"The key difference is that there was no intent to kill innocent people by the government when the drug curtailment program started. If there were peope killed in error by the government, the responsibility lies with the police and military officials that were responsible for the anti-drug cartel program"

The anti-drug cartel program was devised and implemented on the orders of Thaksin so HE is the one responsible for this catastrophic murderous spree - how and why you carry on supporting him and his actions is beyond me, I'm afraid, but you are the only person who can answer this - and must live with your conscience on this fact !!!!

Edited September 11, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE

[MILT]

Aproximately 2,500 with 1,400 accepted as being innocents either in the wrong place at the wrong time or killed to get the numbers up as those area officers who recorded numbers below their target were punished whereas those that had "bumper" amounts of peope bumped off were promoted!!!!!!!

The issue of the drug war has been discussed at length in other threads. There was a significant difference between the loss of life that occurred during the suppression of armed criminal gangs and the the mounting of violent illegal coups. The key difference is that there was no intent to kill innocent people by the government when the drug curtailment program started. If there were people killed in error by the government, the responsibility lies with the police and military officials that were responsible for the anti drug cartel program

As an aside, the numbers used by you and others takes into account all of the deaths. It does not account for the daily death rates due to the drug cartel activities leading up to the crackdown. As I explained in another thread, the drug related deaths fell off significantly after the crackdown. The fact of the matter is that the inflated number you cite as being due to the government response to the narco criminal gangs were in fact reflective of the people dying on a daily basis as the drug gangs fought it out for turf, with the police and with each other. To dumb it down, the number would have been greater had there not been a crackdown. Don't believe me? Go and look at the mortality rates leading up to the intervention and then compare them to the period after the intervention. Not one person in TVF has ever acknowledged the mortality timeline. Instead, simplistic accusations are splattered about.

Even if you wish to personally blame Mr. Thaksin, and there was no legal culpability ever determined, but even if you want to throw that canard into the discussion, one can hardly compare the drug campaign with coup leaders that gave orders to fire into crowds of civilians. There was a significant difference. If you cannot understand the difference, then nothing I write can change your view. However, even if you want to blame Mr. Thaksin, the fact of the matter is that the precedent was set by the military with the pardons given to the generals. A pardon was given to the man responsible for Black May. If you were here at the time, then surely you understand that civilians were being shot indiscriminately and in great numbers with crowds being targeted.

You have ignored the fact that the generals were pardoned. Deal with it. No one can ever say that the request for a pardon is out of the ordinary because pardons have been given before.

"After the 2006 coup, the military junta ordered another investigation into the anti-drug campaign. The committee concluded that as many as 1400 of the 2500 killed had no link to drugs. However, while giving the opinion that orders to kill came from the top, the panel failed to establish sufficient evidence to charge Thaksin or anybody in the Cabinet or police force with the murders".

Any different to your opinion of orders given to fire into the crowd???

One of the most disgusting and outrageous things to come out of the "drugs purge" was this:

"setting provincial arrest and seizure targets including "blacklists", awarding government officials for achieving targets and threatening punishment for those who failed to make the quota, targeting dealers, and "ruthless" implementation".

Just how stupid was this instruction??? It's like putting a bounty on people's heads - as the numbers of people losing their life to bump up the numbers brings rewards and conversely, failing to do so results in being demoted or fired, is it then any wonder that so many innocent civilians were extrajudicially executed just to satisfy this evil tyrant's warped ego????

Finally, your statement, for the reasons given above, doesn't stack up I'm afraid.

"The key difference is that there was no intent to kill innocent people by the government when the drug curtailment program started. If there were peope killed in error by the government, the responsibility lies with the police and military officials that were responsible for the anti-drug cartel program"

The anti-drug cartel program was devised and implemented on the orders of Thaksin so HE is the one responsible for this catastrophic murderous spree - how and why you carry on supporting him and his actions is beyond me, I'm afraid, but you are the only person who can answer this - and must live with your conscience on this fact !!!!

Thank you Sichonsteve for saying what I was trying to get across. I might be out of my mind but not of my heart LOL It was and is a fact that those events happened

[SICHONSTEVE]

Aproximately 2,500 with 1,400 accepted as being innocents either in the wrong place at the wrong time or killed to get the numbers up as those area officers who recorded numbers below their target were punished whereas those that had "bumper" amounts of peope bumped off were promoted!!!!!!!

The issue of the drug war has been discussed at length in other threads. There was a significant difference between the loss of life that occurred during the suppression of armed criminal gangs and the the mounting of violent illegal coups. The key difference is that there was no intent to kill innocent people by the government when the drug curtailment program started. If there were people killed in error by the government, the responsibility lies with the police and military officials that were responsible for the anti drug cartel program

As an aside, the numbers used by you and others takes into account all of the deaths. It does not account for the daily death rates due to the drug cartel activities leading up to the crackdown. As I explained in another thread, the drug related deaths fell off significantly after the crackdown. The fact of the matter is that the inflated number you cite as being due to the government response to the narco criminal gangs were in fact reflective of the people dying on a daily basis as the drug gangs fought it out for turf, with the police and with each other. To dumb it down, the number would have been greater had there not been a crackdown. Don't believe me? Go and look at the mortality rates leading up to the intervention and then compare them to the period after the intervention. Not one person in TVF has ever acknowledged the mortality timeline. Instead, simplistic accusations are splattered about.

Even if you wish to personally blame Mr. Thaksin, and there was no legal culpability ever determined, but even if you want to throw that canard into the discussion, one can hardly compare the drug campaign with coup leaders that gave orders to fire into crowds of civilians. There was a significant difference. If you cannot understand the difference, then nothing I write can change your view. However, even if you want to blame Mr. Thaksin, the fact of the matter is that the precedent was set by the military with the pardons given to the generals. A pardon was given to the man responsible for Black May. If you were here at the time, then surely you understand that civilians were being shot indiscriminately and in great numbers with crowds being targeted.

You have ignored the fact that the generals were pardoned. Deal with it. No one can ever say that the request for a pardon is out of the ordinary because pardons have been given before.

"After the 2006 coup, the military junta ordered another investigation into the anti-drug campaign. The committee concluded that as many as 1400 of the 2500 killed had no link to drugs. However, while giving the opinion that orders to kill came from the top, the panel failed to establish sufficient evidence to charge Thaksin or anybody in the Cabinet or police force with the murders".

Any different to your opinion of orders given to fire into the crowd???

One of the most disgusting and outrageous things to come out of the "drugs purge" was this:

"setting provincial arrest and seizure targets including "blacklists", awarding government officials for achieving targets and threatening punishment for those who failed to make the quota, targeting dealers, and "ruthless" implementation".

Just how stupid was this instruction??? It's like putting a bounty on people's heads - as the numbers of people losing their life to bump up the numbers brings rewards and conversely, failing to do so results in being demoted or fired, is it then any wonder that so many innocent civilians were extrajudicially executed just to satisfy this evil tyrant's warped ego????

Finally, your statement, for the reasons given above, doesn't stack up I'm afraid.

"The key difference is that there was no intent to kill innocent people by the government when the drug curtailment program started. If there were peope killed in error by the government, the responsibility lies with the police and military officials that were responsible for the anti-drug cartel program"

The anti-drug cartel program was devised and implemented on the orders of Thaksin so HE is the one responsible for this catastrophic murderous spree - how and why you carry on supporting him and his actions is beyond me, I'm afraid, but you are the only person who can answer this - and must live with your conscience on this fact !!!!

Thank you Sichonsteve for saying what I was trying to get across. I might be out of my mind but not of my heart LOL It was and is a fact that those events happened

Happy to oblige!!!

By the way he is not Mr. "know it all", he is Mr. "thinks he knows it all" as he seems to be extremely proficient at using so-called facts that are blatantly flawed, and then twisting them around to fit into his version of events.

Why do I promote this response?? because how can anybody justifiably defend this "nasty piece of work called Thaksin"???

Edited September 11, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE

[anterian]

Did Manoonkrit receive a pardon?

Yes, and it was while he was in exile. No jail time served. General Manoonkrit's crimes were far more serious than Thaksin, as his coup of 1985 had significant bloodshed. He also had a history of participating in the coups of 1976 and 1977. His track record went bad in the coup attempts of 1981 and 1985. Maybe that's why he ran for senate leader and was closely aligned with the Democrats. A rather nasty piece of work he was. His colleague General Surayud who was accused of ordering the death of Bangkok residents also received a pardon. No trial, no jail time in that case.

He's not alone, as General Suchinda who was a PM and harshly put down protests in 1995 also received a pardon without jail time. He gave Thailand Black May with dead bodies littering the streets.

Unfortunately, the precedent for seeking a pardon was set long ago by the Thai armed forces. This is something that the people saying Thaksin is being accorded special treatment don't grasp. If anything, Thaksin is not getting special treatment otherwise he would have had his pardon as quickly as those implicated in the past coups and deaths of Thai citizens received theirs. It might be wrong in a farang's view, but it is not unusual or really that special, particulalry since Thaksin is a non violent alleged offender.

particulalry since Thaksin is a non violent alleged offender. - Non violent ? Only killed a few thousand 5555555 next your going to tell us he's a pacifist !!! 55555555555555555555555555555555555555555

Aproximately 2,500 with 1,400 accepted as being innocents either in the wrong place at the wrong time or killed to get the numbers up as those area officers who recorded numbers below their target were punished whereas those that had "bumper" amounts of peope bumped off were promoted!!!!!!!

Thaksin did not act alone, he had high level support. But when public opinion turned against him he was abandoned and left holding the baby.

[rixalex]

Thaksin did not act alone, he had high level support. But when public opinion turned against him he was abandoned and left holding the baby.

He made it his baby when he announced the policy as being his initiative. And no, he didn't act alone, but he was the only one with the ultimate power to either give it the go-ahead or to veto it. The top of the chain. Shouldn't be the only one to take responsibility, but should be the first.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Thaksin did not act alone, he had high level support. But when public opinion turned against him he was abandoned and left holding the baby.

Are you joking!!!!! Thaksin doesn't listen to anybody else, does he. He gives the orders and others obey!! There is no baby with him - even now everything that this pseudo-government does follows what he decrees. If things go well then he will get the plaudits but if, as I am confident it will, when things go belly-up then the ony time that babies comes into this situation will be when "baby sister" Yingluck is the fall-guy/gal!!!.

Thaksin will declare "nothing to do with me guv"!! and Yingluck cannot very well say that it was her brothers fault because she has repeated the mantra that "her brother is not interfering" - yeh right!!!

[anterian]

Thaksin did not act alone, he had high level support. But when public opinion turned against him he was abandoned and left holding the baby.

He made it his baby when he announced the policy as being his initiative. And no, he didn't act alone, but he was the only one with the ultimate power to either give it the go-ahead or to veto it. The top of the chain. Shouldn't be the only one to take responsibility, but should be the first.

Unfortunately forum rules prevent me from debating this further, all I can say is there are doubts as to who is the top of the chain in this case.

[anterian]

Thaksin did not act alone, he had high level support. But when public opinion turned against him he was abandoned and left holding the baby.

He made it his baby when he announced the policy as being his initiative. And no, he didn't act alone, but he was the only one with the ultimate power to either give it the go-ahead or to veto it. The top of the chain. Shouldn't be the only one to take responsibility, but should be the first.

Unfortunately forum rules prevent me from debating this further, all I can say is there are doubts as to who is the top of the chain in this case.

Thomas Beckett?