Thai PM To Ask Bangkok To Open All Floodgates

[Bkkorupcountry]

So since you're so clever, what would you do?

If the gates have to be opened, I would say ... "in two days we are going to open the flood gates, so if you have a safe place to go outside of Bangkok please go. If you must stay in Bangkok, inform your Nai Ban of your location and find a place above ground level and stock up with food and water for at least a one week period. Govt trucks with will be distributing food and water for the next two days in every neighborhood supervised by the army and your local Nai Ban. Martial law will be imposed from midnight tomorrow and there will be military patrols in all neighborhoods preventing looting and helping in emergencies, Be aware that electricity, water and telephone services may have temporary outages ..... etc etc etc. "

It ain't really rocket science.

Very ingenious of you to move the goal posts by omitting the early quotes.

Your post was (as I read it) a criticism of the decision to open the gates and/or their ability to control the flow of water once the gates are opened. And you now try to look clever by saying what you do if you have to open them.

So I ask again, if they don't open the gates, what should they do?

[Credo]

This year they had prolonged, but reasonably well controlled floods on the Missouri River, which drains into the Mississippi river. Extremely heavy snow melt had left the three major dams at capacity. People were told that basically there would be no end to the spring flooding. Once the normal floods ended the release of water would continue until about last September. The dams are in 3 states, Montana, North and South Dakota. Flooding went further into other states.

Of course, this area is not densely populated and people were long ago strongly encouraged--nearly forced--to move out of the flood plain. Things like no government help, no insurance, no public infrastructure such as roads, phone or electricity would be supplied.

The dams are under the control of the Army Corp of Engineers. People can jump up and down all they want, but they decide what, when and where. They only let people know what to expect. Politicians have virtually no say in the operation.

[gummy]

Let's do a few sums. Apparently there is around 6000 billion cu. mtrs of water approaching. Never mind who made this calc but lets just take it as fact for now. Assuming it is moving at 5 KMH and is spread over a front of approximately 50 km by around 100 KM long (and we assume it is the Engilish billion, not the American one ) then what depth could the water be excluding any surge factors ?

so:- per hour the equivalent of 5000 x 100000 x 50000 = 25 billion sq. mtrs of water movement. So if 6000 billion cu. mtrs is approaching then we are either going to be under 240 mtrs of water or perhaps their figures are wrong ? - or my maths.

It is not your maths that is wrong, it is your assumption that speed is involved. They are talking about a volume of water which is , as far as a simple rectangle shape is involved, is length x width x height which = Volume. So Height = Volume/ width x length So we have 6000,000,000/50,000 x 100,000 which equals 1.2 metres in height. Hope that helpsclear it up.Unfortunately, as you point out, that does not take into account surges and man made blockages..

Of course you are right, it must be too much wine on my part. I am having to drink as much as possible in order to build a raft out of the empties.

Edited October 20, 2011 by gummy

[RickBradford]

I wonder how long it will take the BIB to clear the whole system and where they will put the cars.

Honest Somchai's Used Cars Showroom?

[metisdead]

Some posts have been deleted for OTT derogatory comments. Posts with messed up quote tags have been removed as well.

[Bkkorupcountry]

Finally, you're showing your true bigoted and racist self...

Quite a few of your own posts are xenophobic and bigoted.

Most - but you have to understand that he has "asian values" quite different to ours and difficult for us to understand - inscrutable even. Or am I being racist and bigoted?

Quite so, since I am Asian. And our values are quite different - this is a fact. That does not mean better or worse. I know for a fact that Western values (at least, I have the decency to capitalise it) have equally noble notions and does not condone calling a whole group of people stupid, ignorant, gullible in a very defamatory and derogatory manner. That, is a personal trait of yours.

[OzMick]

You cant hold the water back. Theyve been keeping it in dams in the hope that the rain stops and they can let it out slowly. Unfortunately the water has built up... and now its going to be released all at once. They dont have any choice. Just a gamble and they were wrong. No need to accuse them of incompetence. Thailand is a developing country and these things happen.

Few and far in between, but a well reasoned and balanced post. Any decision dealing with natural causes is always a gamble. Any decent and reasonable poster here will readily admit it, instead of throwing insults.

NB: I would wager that even developed countries sometimes get it wrong.

A change of tune from "Australian government - mis-handles bush fires every year." But then again your aren't "Any decent and reasonable poster...."

BTW Fire Brigades and Volunteer bush Fire Brigades are State-run organisations - I'm yet to hear of them "mis-handling" bush fires ANY year.

[Arkady]

I am now not so sure what Yingluck meant by her announcement about opening the flood gates this afternoon, after reading more reports. Coming after Thaksin's close associate, Sudarat, suddenly popped up out of the woodwork to recommend flooding Bangkok, it sounded highly suspicious. The media seem to be playing down the announcement, presumably to prevent further panic. It seems quite possible that she was told to make the announcement to curry favour with alienated red shirt supporters in flooded provinces who believe with some justification they have been deliberately flooded to save Bangkok (and Suphan Buri). It is likely that the announcement reflects the inevitable that the floodgates will rupture or overflow, if they are not opened and later reports suggest that they will be opened only at certain times during the day. Perhaps this is just a means of getting some political benefit from something beyond her control. There has been no outcry from the Bangkok governer.

[harryn]

Let's do a few sums. Apparently there is around 6000 billion cu. mtrs of water approaching. Never mind who made this calc but lets just take it as fact for now. Assuming it is moving at 5 KMH and is spread over a front of approximately 50 km by around 100 KM long (and we assume it is the Engilish billion, not the American one ) then what depth could the water be excluding any surge factors ?

so:- per hour the equivalent of 5000 x 100000 x 50000 = 25 billion sq. mtrs of water movement. So if 6000 billion cu. mtrs is approaching then we are either going to be under 240 mtrs of water or perhaps their figures are wrong ? - or my maths.

It is not your maths that is wrong, it is your assumption that speed is involved. They are talking about a volume of water which is , as far as a simple rectangle shape is involved, is length x width x height which = Volume. So Height = Volume/ width x length So we have 6000,000,000/50,000 x 100,000 which equals 1.2 metres in height. Hope that helpsclear it up.Unfortunately, as you point out, that does not take into account surges and man made blockages..

Of course you are right, it must be too much wine on my part. I am having to drink as much as possible in order to build a raft out of the empties.

Glad to be of help and good luck with your raft.

[Murgatroyd]

I think that The PM, having been informed that flooding in Bangkok is now inevitable, must now be seen to present the flooding as a matter of intentional policy, however misguided, rather that a failure. That way she can claim that she was merely following her "Experts" advice, and blame them later.

Bangkok floods, but she still manages to save face.

[ResX]

This year they had prolonged, but reasonably well controlled floods on the Missouri River, which drains into the Mississippi river. Extremely heavy snow melt had left the three major dams at capacity. People were told that basically there would be no end to the spring flooding. Once the normal floods ended the release of water would continue until about last September. The dams are in 3 states, Montana, North and South Dakota. Flooding went further into other states.

Of course, this area is not densely populated and people were long ago strongly encouraged--nearly forced--to move out of the flood plain. Things like no government help, no insurance, no public infrastructure such as roads, phone or electricity would be supplied.

The dams are under the control of the Army Corp of Engineers. People can jump up and down all they want, but they decide what, when and where. They only let people know what to expect. Politicians have virtually no say in the operation.

Too bad... too bad. Both Bhumibol & Sirkit dams were under performed badly during the start of the flood.

[harryfrompattaya]

Tens of Thousands of Bangkok citizens will die, when they are now going flood Bangkok! The PM is obviously totally in sane!

How will she supply food and water to the 15-20 million people in Bangkok. The shelves of water has been almost empty for weeks already, so not possible to keep a stock in the home! And financiallyThailand will go bankrupt.

To late for "State of Emergency". Only a coup will be able to save Thailand and Bangkok now.

But look on the bright side. At least it will be great for the baht/dollar exchange rate...

The Baht will get stronger with all the Dollars coming in as Aid

[Pib]

Tens of Thousands of Bangkok citizens will die, when they are now going flood Bangkok! The PM is obviously totally in sane!

How will she supply food and water to the 15-20 million people in Bangkok. The shelves of water has been almost empty for weeks already, so not possible to keep a stock in the home! And financiallyThailand will go bankrupt.

To late for "State of Emergency". Only a coup will be able to save Thailand and Bangkok now.

But look on the bright side. At least it will be great for the baht/dollar exchange rate...

The Baht will get stronger with all the Dollars coming in as Aid

Doubtful....Most countries are donating aid in the form of materials/supplies/expertise not money/dollars.

[wintermute]

Doubtful....Most countries are donating aid in the form of materials/supplies/expertise not money/dollars.

I think most countries learned their lesson during the Tsunami when millions in aid went into the BiB government mercedes & house fund

Edited October 20, 2011 by wintermute

[WarpSpeed]

And here comes the rain! Looks like coming from the North or east. Big Black rain clouds... bummer

Yep raining here in Don Muang now, not too hard but we don't need anything .. I saw the weather last night and the night before on CNN and it was clear across the north and central Thailand with a high pressure system rolling in and they predicted that should keep us dry for a couple of weeks, it's not working but this is the first rain we've had in at least a 5 to 6 days here when it was raining hard every day with at the most 2 days between storms.. I suspect, indeed hope, this is just convection rain and won't be very hard nor very long..

Now it seems that Ghadaffi has been killed or captured so nothin about Thailand as it seems to be old news apparently ...

Just now rain letting up again...

[dmcguire70]

Let's do a few sums. Apparently there is around 6000 billion cu. mtrs of water approaching. Never mind who made this calc but lets just take it as fact for now. Assuming it is moving at 5 KMH and is spread over a front of approximately 50 km by around 100 KM long (and we assume it is the Engilish billion, not the American one ) then what depth could the water be excluding any surge factors ?

so:- per hour the equivalent of 5000 x 100000 x 50000 = 25 billion sq. mtrs of water movement. So if 6000 billion cu. mtrs is approaching then we are either going to be under 240 mtrs of water or perhaps their figures are wrong ? - or my maths.

It is not your maths that is wrong, it is your assumption that speed is involved. They are talking about a volume of water which is , as far as a simple rectangle shape is involved, is length x width x height which = Volume. So Height = Volume/ width x length So we have 6000,000,000/50,000 x 100,000 which equals 1.2 metres in height. Hope that helpsclear it up.Unfortunately, as you point out, that does not take into account surges and man made blockages..

Give us a break!!

[Pseudolus]

I'd rather have a controlled amount of water filling the street than the levies and flood walls breaking through force or vandalism. It's not going to be nice either way, but when an unstoppable force meets immovable object, something will give and ranting about politics, Thaksin, Maggie T, Minimee Thaksin, Wive's, bigotry, my floods bigger than yours, will not have any effect. We've had nearly 10 days of being on alert so anyone who does not have water / food stored up by now is over due a date with Darwin anyhow -might as well be now than another time; after all, not many on this web forum can not afford a bottle of water or 10. Open the gates a tad, let the outside water lessen, get more supplies in, keep it flowing until it's gone and give those poor bastards outside the wall a break. There by the grace of something I do not believe in goes us.

[rogerdee123]

So since you're so clever, what would you do?

If the gates have to be opened, I would say ... "in two days we are going to open the flood gates, so if you have a safe place to go outside of Bangkok please go. If you must stay in Bangkok, inform your Nai Ban of your location and find a place above ground level and stock up with food and water for at least a one week period. Govt trucks with will be distributing food and water for the next two days in every neighborhood supervised by the army and your local Nai Ban. Martial law will be imposed from midnight tomorrow and there will be military patrols in all neighborhoods preventing looting and helping in emergencies, Be aware that electricity, water and telephone services may have temporary outages ..... etc etc etc. "

It ain't really rocket science.

Very ingenious of you to move the goal posts by omitting the early quotes.

Your post was (as I read it) a criticism of the decision to open the gates and/or their ability to control the flow of water once the gates are opened. And you now try to look clever by saying what you do if you have to open them.

So I ask again, if they don't open the gates, what should they do?

I had to remove the earlier posts because this forum would not allow me to include them. I got the message 'you have included too many quoted texts' or whatever.

If you try to add your own comment to that same post you will get the same message ... try it. You won't be able to include all those quotes.

So you want to know what I would do if I were PM and I didn't open the gates? Well my original post was in regard to my opposition to opening the gates at all .... my point is that Bangkok should be the last place allowed to flood because Bangkok is where the biggest disaster will be in regard to human casualties. To take care of Bangkok's population while the city is flooded will be an astronomical task. This is not to mention the economic factors and those knock on or multiplier effects on everyone in Thailand ... even up there in Udorn.

So if there is the option of not opening the gates on Bangkok, I wouldn't open them.

But like the sample plan I mentioned before for Bangkok .... should also have something similar for the areas being flooded.

I asked the question before ... how many of the Govt's evacuation centers have been flooded today? More than one! This is bad planning to put an evacuation center in a place that is going to flood. They should be setting up evacuation centers in places they know won't flood ... Chonburi, Sattahip, or where-ever and have buses and trains organized to carry the affected people to those places where there is food, water, shelter, medical attention, etc.

My whole problem with this situation is that the Govt doesn't have a handle on the situation. They seem to have no credible plans re how to help the people who are affected .... and don't give adequate warning to people in the risk areas .... saying things like this area will not flood more than a meter, and then a few hours later telling people to evacuate the area immediately.

Yes a lot of people and volunteers are working hard filling sandbags, packing the relief packages, driving their jet skis, etc etc .... but it's mostly ad hoc. There isn't enough thought and planning going into taking care of the people who are affected and suffering from this disaster.

Similar to other posters here. Although I think intentionally allowing bangkok to flood without any notice is bad disaster management, particularly when you have no plan on how to take care of the people affected, I expect Bangkok to flood in any case and if the facts confirm that, as I expect they do, the Govt should be telling people now when it will happen so they can prepare for it. They should be telling people things like .... in xxx district flood waters are expected to be 2 meters, in yyy district the flood waters are expected to be 2 meters ... etc etc. Highway abc will be impassable but highway efg will remain open. And this should be accurate info ... not just what some Govt official remembers from the last flood.

If the Govt is calm and inspires confidence, people won't panic.

[metisdead]

Off topic and inflammatory posts have been removed.

[harryn]

Brits should not say too much did we not have a king called Canute

Yes we did but I believe he was demonstrating to everyone, who thought he was infallible, that he was human and couldn't prevent the tide from coming in, which of course no one can

[siamdig]

In 1985 there were a few farang wind sufing on Sukhumvit.

HAHAHAHA

[Buchholz]

snippets from:

It's all wet in Thailand

By Shawn W Crispin

Harder to calculate is the impact on Yingluck's credibility and popularity, which pre-flood was riding a July election win high, but post-flood is expected to sink, including in some of her Puea Thai party's worst-affected provincial strongholds.

Her government's response to the disaster has been by all accounts erratic and uncoordinated, bringing the premier to tears at one point and underscoring her lack of political experience and control over her administration.

Her self-exiled, former premier brother, Thaksin Shinawatra, has been widely reported to be managing her crisis team from the United Arab Emirates.

Continues:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/MJ20Ae02.html

Asia Times - Oct. 20, 2011

.

[Tanaka]

PM coordinating with BMA to open all floodgates to speed up drainage. She asks public not to panic when seeing canal water rise. /via@tulsathit

Yeah, do not panic! Just take a deep breath and hold it.

[Stan42]

You know what's really funny? Every store, from small to big, has empty shelves where the water bottles should be.

The next shelf is full. With soft drinks.

But I did find it cool to go to my nearest convenience store and said I want some cigarettes. When they ask how many, I said "ALL".

[Buchholz]

It's all wet in Thailand

By Shawn W Crispin

Her government's response to the disaster has been by all accounts erratic and uncoordinated

Careful Shawn, there's lots of her defenders here that portend otherwise.

.

[gregb]

Of course such an action would totally negate all the efforts of the Democrat controlled B.M.A. thus putting the Democrats in a bad light.

My money is on the fact that it is a politically motivated move aimed at discrediting Bangkoks Democrats.

Yingluck and the current administration are like cornered animals and will indeed take anyone and any thing they could down with them.

All the hallmarks of Yinglucks Big Brothers tactics all over again.

It is about the simple fact that if they dont open the gates at least a litle then the water pressure build up will rip them apart and BKK will face a disaster.

Stop obsessing abotu Thaksin. He isnt God

Of course not. He is Satan. If he were God Thailand would not be in this mess.

The damage Thaksin has done to Thailand far outweighs anything this flood has accomplished.

[shartin]

I must apologise as I digress slightly here. Im just curious - all these people who constantly criticise the government and Thailand on this forum regardless of who the government is, do you live in Thailand, and if so why? Like my wife always says, if you dont like it, you know where the airport is. Can you imagine a Western country dealing with problems similar ot this and we had a bunch of 'immigrants' criticising how we were dealing with the situation on their own forum on the internet? Think about some of the names you's be calling these foreigners.

[Larry]

I just checked the weather report.....rain for the next four or five days.

[animatic]

It's all wet in Thailand

By Shawn W Crispin

Her government's response to the disaster has been by all accounts erratic and uncoordinated

Careful Shawn, there's lots of her defenders here that portend otherwise.

.

Spelling check dude. That's PRETEND....

[philw]

Of course such an action would totally negate all the efforts of the Democrat controlled B.M.A. thus putting the Democrats in a bad light.

My money is on the fact that it is a politically motivated move aimed at discrediting Bangkoks Democrats.

Yingluck and the current administration are like cornered animals and will indeed take anyone and any thing they could down with them.

All the hallmarks of Yinglucks Big Brothers tactics all over again.

It is about the simple fact that if they dont open the gates at least a litle then the water pressure build up will rip them apart and BKK will face a disaster.

Stop obsessing abotu Thaksin. He isnt God

Of course not. He is Satan. If he were God Thailand would not be in this mess.

The damage Thaksin has done to Thailand far outweighs anything this flood has accomplished.

I'm speechless but do think you need some help.

Counseling perhaps ?

This flood and subsequent damage will possibly have far reaching social effects, has wrecked the lives of millions, will seriously damage the economy and you blather on about Thaksin...........

Speechless with a capital F.