Flood-Hit Thailand Declines Offer Of Help: US Navy

[WarpSpeed]

You know, I can't read through this entire thread as I have water rising fast outside my house and have to get back t preparations but if this has been said already take it easy on me please..

IMO if the Thai government didn't see any need for the US Navy to assist the Thai people that's fine but it would have been nice if the US embassy had at least offered any US citizens who required it if they wished to evacuate to the carrier.

There would have been plenty of space and supplies there to accommodate the citizens below deck considering the numbers, that may actually have the need instead of stranding those who may need it in light of the overwhelming magnitude of this disaster.. I'm a bit peeved that option was not offered, as we certainly can't take of the locals limited resources this is just too massive....

Miss Ambassador or one of your aids I hope you'r reading!!

With all due respect, I just don't see the logic or the precedent in having a US carrier house US citizens under these conditions. The commercial airlines are still running, there is still some dry land in Thailand to go to temporarily. The USN would have to see much worse conditions in Thailand, I would think, before it would convert its ships into short-stay hotels. If it's a matter of finances, then neither is the USN running indigent homeless centers, in case you haven't noticed.

Appeals made directly to the Citizens Services at the US Embassy, Bangkok (while it is still dry) would be much more effective than this thread for such appeals to the (Miss?) Ambassador.

I guess it's very clear there are a lot of generalizations being made here and little understanding but I guess it's to be expected that the US government puts another countries citizens ahead of it's own..

Edited October 27, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[Langsuan Man]

US help never comes for free and the hidden payback is always much bigger than the actual help.

I have seen these over the years in different places, this is the first time I have seen them all together. When someone complains about America , it is not always as it seems

Cemetery at Normandy

When in England , at a fairly large conference, Gen. Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush. He answered by saying, ' Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return. '

You could have heard a pin drop…

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There was a conference in France where a number of international engineers were taking part, including French and American. During a break, one of the French engineers came back into the room saying, ' Have you heard the latest dumb stunt Bush has done? He has sent an aircraft carrier to Indonesia to help the tsunami victims. What does he intend to do, bomb them?'

A Boeing engineer stood up and replied quietly: ' Our carriers have three hospitals on board that can treat several hundred people; they are nuclear powered and can supply emergency electrical power to shore facilities; they have three cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people three meals a day, they can produce several thousand gallons of fresh water from sea water each day, and they carry half a dozen helicopters for use in transporting victims and injured to and from their flight deck. We have eleven such ships; how many does France have? '

You could have heard a pin drop…

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A U.S. Navy Admiral was attending a Naval conference that included Admirals from the U.S , English, Canadian, Australian and French Navies. At a cocktail reception, he found himself standing with a large group of officers that included personnel from most of those countries. Everyone was chatting away in English as they sipped their drinks but a French admiral suddenly complained that, whereas Europeans learn many languages, Americans learn only English. He then asked, 'Why is it that we always have to speak English in these conferences rather than speaking French?' Without hesitating, the American Admiral replied, ' Maybe it's because the Brits, Canadians, Aussies and Americans arranged it so you wouldn't have to speak German.'

You could have heard a pin drop…

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Robert Whiting, an elderly gentleman of 83, arrived in Paris by plane. At French Customs, he took a few minutes to locate his passport in his carry on. 'You have been to France before, monsieur?' the customs officer asked sarcastically. Mr. Whiting admitted that he had been to France previously. 'Then you should know enough to have your passport ready.' The American said, ''The last time I was here, I didn't have to show it.' 'Impossible. Americans always have to show your passports on arrival in France !' The American senior gave the Frenchman a long hard look. Then he quietly explained, ' Well, when I came ashore at Omaha Beach on D-Day in 1944 to help liberate this country, I couldn't find a single Frenchman to show a passport to!! '

You could have heard a pin drop…

[endure]

Anyone that works with the thai and with thai managers can fully understand that the thinking process of what we are seeing demonstrated by the thai government is quite consistent with average thais. Trying to overlay western ethics and morals on this culture just doesn't work.

[endure]

I see that we've descended to the 'We won the war' gambit.

[wintermute]

I see that we've descended to the 'We won the war' gambit.

It's not a gambit when it's the truth.

[wintermute]

I see that we've descended to the 'We won the war' gambit.

It's not a gambit when it's the truth.

..or would you prefer to be speaking German or your Russian dialect of choice at the moment?

[endure]

It's true that the US, along with all the other Allied participants, won the war. They didn't win it on their own.

Edit: Last word. I'm not going down this path.

Edited October 27, 2011 by endure

[BuckarooBanzai]

You know, I can't read through this entire thread as I have water rising fast outside my house and have to get back t preparations but if this has been said already take it easy on me please..

IMO if the Thai government didn't see any need for the US Navy to assist the Thai people that's fine but it would have been nice if the US embassy had at least offered any US citizens who required it if they wished to evacuate to the carrier.

There would have been plenty of space and supplies there to accommodate the citizens below deck considering the numbers, that may actually have the need instead of stranding those who may need it in light of the overwhelming magnitude of this disaster.. I'm a bit peeved that option was not offered, as we certainly can't take of the locals limited resources this is just too massive....

Miss Ambassador or one of your aids I hope you'r reading!!

Warp Speed, your delusions of grandeur are evaporating. This is the real world and very serious. You have spent your time supporting 1000 boats on the CP driving back the water while you should have been taking proactive measures. Why do you think the US Navy is going to rescue you? Sorry for your predicament but my family is in the same predicament. But we have responded in a timely manner and protected ourselves without all the rhetoric.

Edited October 27, 2011 by BuckarooBanzai

[WarpSpeed]

You know, I can't read through this entire thread as I have water rising fast outside my house and have to get back t preparations but if this has been said already take it easy on me please..

IMO if the Thai government didn't see any need for the US Navy to assist the Thai people that's fine but it would have been nice if the US embassy had at least offered any US citizens who required it if they wished to evacuate to the carrier.

There would have been plenty of space and supplies there to accommodate the citizens below deck considering the numbers, that may actually have the need instead of stranding those who may need it in light of the overwhelming magnitude of this disaster.. I'm a bit peeved that option was not offered, as we certainly can't take of the locals limited resources this is just too massive....

Miss Ambassador or one of your aids I hope you'r reading!!

Warp Speed, your delusions of grandeur are evaporating. This is the real world and very serious. You have spent your time supporting 1000 boats on the CP driving back the water while you should have been taking proactive measures. Why do you think the US Navy is going to rescue you? Sorry for your predicament but my family is in the same predicament. But we have responded in a timely manner and protected ourselves without all the rhetoric.

You know Buckaroo go find another member to harass I don't need this right now have a great day!! I've got some really important and relevant things going in my life right now and they don't include the likes of you..

[Gweiloman]

I see that we've descended to the 'We won the war' gambit.

It's not a gambit when it's the truth.

..or would you prefer to be speaking German or your Russian dialect of choice at the moment?

Winning the war, any war, is not what counts. It's winning respect of all peoples of this earth that matters.

[thaicbr]

I see that we've descended to the 'We won the war' gambit.

And also when it was done so elegantly

[KeyserSoze01]

Oh dear, the discussion has now degraded to the lowest common denominator. Why not just whip 'em out and see who has the largest schnitzengruben.

Yes, the US does reach out to nations who need assistance and many US servicemen have paid the ultimate price for this generosity, but the US is never shy about reminding them just who it was that saved their bacon. All the while spreading US hegemony and imposing western values. Is it any wonder people resent the Merkins?

EDIT: typo

Edited October 27, 2011 by KeyserSoze01

[SKguy]

You are so right.......lets hope the Thai Government will now seek flood defence assistance from the Netherlands in order to mitigate the effects of any future flooding in the country.

If this isn't absolute proof of their bona fide stupidity, nothing is. It's as if they want people to die.

It's starting to look that way...

It's the same old "loss of Face" stupidity. When was the last time a Thai Government

accepted the offer of help from foreign government? If they had called in people from

foreign countries with experience in water management in low lying areas (Netherlands

to name one) many, many years ago, then perhaps this flood may have been less of a

disaster than it is now. The least that could have been done was to make a study of

other countries defenses against flooding and adapted them to suit Thailand.

[scotbeve]

Oh dear, the discussion has now degraded to the lowest common denominator. Why not just whip 'em out and see who has the largest schnitzengruben.

Yes, the US does reach out to nations who need assistance and many US servicemen have paid the ultimate price for this generosity, but the US is never shy about reminding them just who it was that saved their bacon. All the while spreading US hegemony and imposing western values. Is it any wonder people resent the Merkins?

EDIT: typo

I'm an American and actually can not disagree with your statement. But just to be sure of one thing.... the likes of the US government and the wishes of the people (Joe Citizen, the PEOPLE (wishing they were) in charge!!) have - in most instances - two very different views on US foreign policy.

[jayboy]

When in England , at a fairly large conference, Gen. Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush. He answered by saying, ' Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return. '

I simply don't believe this anecdote as you describe it.If you can provide evidence to substantiate I will donate Bt 10,000 to a Thailand flood relief charity of your choice.

I am actually sympathetic to the general point you are trying to make but the facts behind this anecdote have been repeatedly garbled and embroidered to become an urban legend.The basis of this is described in this link:

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl-colin-powell.htm

Edited October 30, 2011 by jayboy

[mca]

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl-colin-powell.htm

[Markaew]

Oh dear, the discussion has now degraded to the lowest common denominator. Why not just whip 'em out and see who has the largest schnitzengruben.

Yes, the US does reach out to nations who need assistance and many US servicemen have paid the ultimate price for this generosity, but the US is never shy about reminding them just who it was that saved their bacon. All the while spreading US hegemony and imposing western values. Is it any wonder people resent the Merkins?

EDIT: typo

I agree completely. The next time a country is invaded and wants our help they should call somebody else. Why should we die and expend treasure because of your misfortune only for you to complain later. Defend our borders only.

[soomak]

I must say that refusing help in a time of crisis is borderline on insanity, but of course I am not Thai so maybe I am missing the "big picture" (losing some face) ...

I come from Israel, and for the past 18 months, the political atmosphere between us and Turkey has been very hostile.

However:

When we had a very large fire about a year ago, and needed assistance, they have sent fire-fighting air crafts, which we gladly accepted.

And just 2 weeks ago, they had a large earthquake, and our government offered help, which was accepted.

So if two semi-hostile countries can help each other...

[siampolee]

Sadly it's really the Thai mindset that is the problem. Can't lose face, but , they will, "Happily die to spite the graveyard," as the old Thai proverb says.

[thaibeachlovers]

I have said it before and I'll happily say it again.

What Thailand needs is a Singapore style government.

There, I said it again.

And a Singapore type police force?

While I don't know what they are like now, in the 70s the Singaporean police force was excellent. Never had to worry about being fitted up for a bit of tea money.

So, IMO, Thailand could do with a 1970s style Singapore type police force.

Edited October 31, 2011 by thaibeachlovers

[osiboy]

They don't WANT anyone 'foreign' to help, because they could find out about the billions of Baht that are 'watered' with corruption during the 'relief efforts', by selling donated food and goods by greedy individuals etc.

Just like how it happened after the Tsunami in Phuket.

yesssssssssss,......well said pepi, it was'nt only the selling of donated foods, it was millions of dollars that went " walkies" too, and it was never found, of course it was the BIB that were left in charge, ......happy to profit from death ....................such sad and greedy, ingnorant people . they think they are now saving face but they are laughing stock to the western world that WILL put saving lives before making money. another post here was saying how healthy the thai balance sheets are and how rich their banks are, well i dont see the thais donating much to countries that have famine or floods, the US and EU are skint, but rich in humanity !! thailand is skint in morality !

Edited October 31, 2011 by osiboy

[viathais]

When in England , at a fairly large conference, Gen. Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush. He answered by saying, ' Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return. '

I simply don't believe this anecdote as you describe it.If you can provide evidence to substantiate I will donate Bt 10,000 to a Thailand flood relief charity of your choice.

I am actually sympathetic to the general point you are trying to make but the facts behind this anecdote have been repeatedly garbled and embroidered to become an urban legend.The basis of this is described in this link:

http://urbanlegends....olin-powell.htm

I wouldn't donate jack, better to go and hand it out yourself.

Too many donations go to waste as we have seen

The US could have airdropped loads of the donated food, drinks etc but instead it sits ruined and wasted

Edited October 31, 2011 by viathais

[metisdead]

Posts that were insulting, baiting or off topic have been removed.

[rogerdee123]

I have said it before and I'll happily say it again.

What Thailand needs is a Singapore style government.

There, I said it again.

And a Singapore type police force?

While I don't know what they are like now, in the 70s the Singaporean police force was excellent. Never had to worry about being fitted up for a bit of tea money.

So, IMO, Thailand could do with a 1970s style Singapore type police force.

My understanding is that the Singapore Police Force is still outstanding today. With regards to a Singapore styled government, what ever will the self righteous posters here think about dictatorship, nepotism and cronyism?

Yes good question .... which is worse? Singapore style "democracy" ... or Thai style "democracy" ???

[thaibeachlovers]

And a Singapore type police force?

While I don't know what they are like now, in the 70s the Singaporean police force was excellent. Never had to worry about being fitted up for a bit of tea money.

So, IMO, Thailand could do with a 1970s style Singapore type police force.

My understanding is that the Singapore Police Force is still outstanding today. With regards to a Singapore styled government, what ever will the self righteous posters here think about dictatorship, nepotism and cronyism?

Yes good question .... which is worse? Singapore style "democracy" ... or Thai style "democracy" ???

Don't know about you, but if I had to choose between good infrastructure etc or sanook/ mai pen rai, I'll take Thai "democracy".

Quote removed to allow posting

[tlansford]

like short people.

ok, for some reason, that one gave me a good laugh, thanks.

[soundman]

Interesting stuff on Singapore.

However, pls. back to the topic at hand.

[Markaew]

Because it keeps the topic off thai bashing which is becoming a big no-no now.

[Kananga]

I am also far more interesting...

[Gweiloman]

An Asian friend told me once that unlike in a lot of Western countries, there is no fall back or safety net for the people. It is the ugly side of capitalism. Unemployment benefits, labour laws, all these things don't really exist. It's a dog eat dog world and all is fair in fighting your way to the top of the food chain. After all, look at the way they drive in Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines etc - no one really gets angry if you cut in front of them - just like in working life.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Scott
deleted quote edited out