Flood Nears Inner Bangkok

[anterian]

Experts are not needed, any student of physical geography knows the answer, equally any student of Thai culture knows they would never implement it.

The middle and lower reaches of the river are a series of meanders, this is typical of flat land. So in normal flow the water slowly meanders down to the sea. But when in full spate it is like a car that tries to take a bend too fast and goes off the road, the water does the same it can't follow the meander and overflows. In a natural environment the water will carve out a new more direct channel, the original meander is cut off and forms an "oxbow lake".

What Thailand has to do is work with nature, not wait hundreds of years for the river to straighten itself out, rather it needs to dig a straight channel through every meander.

However, this cannot happen because looking at the map you can see that every meander has been extensively developed with housing estates, high rise condos, hotels, department stores and factories, even an airport, many would have to go to clear a channel. But most of this development was by the elite, the rich, they would fight any such clearance tooth and nail.

So Bangkok is doomed because the cure is too draconian for those in power to stomach. I don't care which party is in power, none would have the guts to do what needs doing.

Gotta correct you a little. Rivers at or near base level (which the Chao Phrya is) don't straighten themselves out over time. The meanders continue to move over time, thus forming an oxbow lake when the river cuts through the narrow part of a meander. However, meanders continue to develop, just not in the same spot.

Short term you are correct, meanders meander But over geological time rivers do straighten out. Old rivers like the Danube and the Nile lose their meanders and develop deltas. In England my local river is called the River Mole, being on limestone it adopted a different strategy, it created tunnels the bedrock. Phreatic rather than vadose. The Chao Phraya is clearly a young river geologically speaking.

[cowslip]

Experts are not needed, any student of physical geography knows the answer, equally any student of Thai culture knows they would never implement it.

The middle and lower reaches of the river are a series of meanders, this is typical of flat land. So in normal flow the water slowly meanders down to the sea. But when in full spate it is like a car that tries to take a bend too fast and goes off the road, the water does the same it can't follow the meander and overflows. In a natural environment the water will carve out a new more direct channel, the original meander is cut off and forms an "oxbow lake".

What Thailand has to do is work with nature, not wait hundreds of years for the river to straighten itself out, rather it needs to dig a straight channel through every meander.

However, this cannot happen because looking at the map you can see that every meander has been extensively developed with housing estates, high rise condos, hotels, department stores and factories, even an airport, many would have to go to clear a channel. But most of this development was by the elite, the rich, they would fight any such clearance tooth and nail.

So Bangkok is doomed because the cure is too draconian for those in power to stomach. I don't care which party is in power, none would have the guts to do what needs doing.

Your post clearly demonstrates two things

Experts are needed

There are a lot of people one TV who really don't understand flooding.

[cowslip]

Biggest scam in history. Funny considering it is accepted as real by the overwhelming majority of global climate oriented scientists. To claim it is a scam is just a cynical political position that has nothing do with science.

And to claim that a benign and essential trace gas is 'imperiling the world', as John Reilly, the co-director of MIT's Joint Program on the Science and Policy of Global Change, said yesterday, is equally a cynical political position that has nothing do with science.

Truth is, the debate never was about science; most of the deep alarmism comes from dispossessed Marxists, who were homeless after the collapse of the USSR. The environment is the perfect cause to keep harassing the capitalists, so the global warming scam is, if you like, the downstream flooding from the defeat of Communism two decades ago.

A message from the twilight world of ignorance and paranoia?

[nurofiend]

i also believe there is incompetence on both sides... and in a non biased, honestly, hand on heart opinion, i truly don't think this crisis would have been handled much better by any Thai political party.

Spoken like a true Protestant!

what do you mean by that?...since my other reply got deleted without explanation

really...i don't know whether to say thanks or tell you to piss off? ;););););););)

[phetaroi]

Short term you are correct, meanders meander But over geological time rivers do straighten out. Old rivers like the Danube and the Nile lose their meanders and develop deltas. In England my local river is called the River Mole, being on limestone it adopted a different strategy, it created tunnels the bedrock. Phreatic rather than vadose. The Chao Phraya is clearly a young river geologically speaking.

Two of my degrees are in geology. So, show me the reference. And make sure it is talking about overall straightening, not just straightening for a short distance.

Edited November 7, 2011 by phetaroi

[ResX]

The scale of the disaster is and will continue revealing itself to a group of incompetent politicians and experts, whose only qualification was being born with the right family connections.

The strains that will be placed upon Thai society will, I fear, test it beyond breaking point on all levels. Mediacl, social, political and economic. The propensity for this flood to precipitate unimaginable disorder and chaos is overlooked by micro focusing on the flood's causes and short fix remedies.

In short, this could turn nasty - really, really nasty.

somewhat agreed, and i think the possibility of things turning extremely nasty has been a long(ish) time coming.

i also believe there is incompetence on both sides... and in a non biased, honestly, hand on heart opinion, i truly don't think this crisis would have been handled much better by any Thai political party.

Of course that's completely unprovable and disprovable but it's my genuine view on this.

You are right. Flood goes beyond politics. This law of nature doesn't take order from any politician. It is wiser is if politicians acknowledge this fact.

[anterian]

Short term you are correct, meanders meander But over geological time rivers do straighten out. Old rivers like the Danube and the Nile lose their meanders and develop deltas. In England my local river is called the River Mole, being on limestone it adopted a different strategy, it created tunnels the bedrock. Phreatic rather than vadose. The Chao Phraya is clearly a young river geologically speaking.

Two of my degrees are in geology. So, show me the reference. And make sure it is talking about overall straightening, not just straightening for a short distance.

"Two of my degrees are in geology".Good for you How did you manage 2 degrees in the same subject? I have degrees in Natural Science, Electronics and in Education but I rarely mention them. Much of my physical geology knowledge derives from teaching it and running a caving club for 20 years, not just Karst but also sea and volcanic. Asking for references when I am sitting in knee deep water is a good joke, but you could try the archives of the William Pengelly trust.

[ResX]

It won't be a big problem to know the biggest flood in 50 years for any river basin. Note that RID has the flood data for Chao Phraya catchment for at least 50 years by now. The simplest way to know the biggest flood in 50 years is by looking the past 50 years statistical data.

It's not quite as simple as you may think. For example, a 50 year flood may not come around in 200 years. It's only a 50 year flood in hindsight. Next year we may get a 200 year flood and the year after a 100 year flood. These floods don't work to a clock, you know.

There are many statistical methods to extrapolate it. Just to provide simple example to provide ballpark estimate. If the biggest flood in 50 years for CP catchment is 17 billion cubic meter of rainfall that falls in 7 days, then this biggest flood is 2,500 years can be made up fro two the biggest flood in 50 years that come together. Thus, it magnitude is 34billion cubic meter in 7 days (or 14 days) and its return probability is 1 in 2,500 years.

For a flood control philosophy, it is up to the government of one particular country that has to decide what size of flood it likes to deal with. The bigger its magnitude the lower its return probability and the higher the cost to deal with it. All the the flood control structures will be sized to meet this specific flood size (maximum). Thailand shall have one referenced value. I would say all the structures were designed to deal with the biggest flood in 100 years. Maybe your minister is quite shy to share with others.

[cowslip]

Bankok is not just a flood pain...it's a delta.

[ResX]

They keep calling it a 50 year flood? But isn't this the worst flood ever as far as Bangkok?

I think 50-year flood based of rainfall distribution. But for sure Bangkok has to have a few floods that were passed from the north. Those big dams in the north are immune from floods. How do you thing that could do this?

For a matter of fact a big portions of the flood waters that Bangkok has received were actually "imported flood waters". Thus the flood can look like the biggest in 1000 years. For example, just imagine Bhumibol passed down the amount of water equivalent to the biggest flood in 10 years (0.1) based on Bangkok flood scale. Sirkit did the same (0.1). Bangkok itself was hit by the biggest flood in 10 years( 0.1). If you add these three floods together what would you get? Obviously there are three times more flood waters. How about the probability of occurence? Its 0.1 X 0.1 X 0.1 = 1/1000. Yes that flood may look like the biggest in 1000year.

Don't be fooled by a certain party that uses statistic of this kind in and attempt to hide mismanagement of water resources.

Edited November 7, 2011 by ResX

[scorecard]

The scale of the disaster is and will continue revealing itself to a group of incompetent politicians and experts, whose only qualification was being born with the right family connections.

The strains that will be placed upon Thai society will, I fear, test it beyond breaking point on all levels. Mediacl, social, political and economic. The propensity for this flood to precipitate unimaginable disorder and chaos is overlooked by micro focusing on the flood's causes and short fix remedies.

In short, this could turn nasty - really, really nasty.

somewhat agreed, and i think the possibility of things turning extremely nasty has been a long(ish) time coming.

i also believe there is incompetence on both sides... and in a non biased, honestly, hand on heart opinion, i truly don't think this crisis would have been handled much better by any Thai political party.

Of course that's completely unprovable and disprovable but it's my genuine view on this.

There is no doubt that yingluck did not cause the floods'

There is no no doubt that nobody could have caused instantly / magically fixed the whole problem.

There is also no doubt that the whole situation could have been better managed.

There is also no doubt that the paymaster surrounded (perhaps should say sacrificed) his ill prepared younger sister (his clone - his own words) with totally incapable / insincere people who could not organize a piss up in a brewery.

And millions of Thais suffer, all for the whims of one very very selfish corrupt man who normally (from afar) has answers (well spun answers)to everything, but now totally quiet.

No doubt after it's all over he will he full of 'after the event' advice. And by the way, where's the big pumps from Korea?

Edited November 7, 2011 by scorecard

[phetaroi]

Short term you are correct, meanders meander But over geological time rivers do straighten out. Old rivers like the Danube and the Nile lose their meanders and develop deltas. In England my local river is called the River Mole, being on limestone it adopted a different strategy, it created tunnels the bedrock. Phreatic rather than vadose. The Chao Phraya is clearly a young river geologically speaking.

Two of my degrees are in geology. So, show me the reference. And make sure it is talking about overall straightening, not just straightening for a short distance.

"Two of my degrees are in geology".Good for you How did you manage 2 degrees in the same subject? I have degrees in Natural Science, Electronics and in Education but I rarely mention them. Much of my physical geology knowledge derives from teaching it and running a caving club for 20 years, not just Karst but also sea and volcanic. Asking for references when I am sitting in knee deep water is a good joke, but you could try the archives of the William Pengelly trust.

1. Bachelor Of Science Degree in Geology and Master Of Science Degree in Geology

2. What's electronics got to do with it? What's an Education Degree got to do with it (although I have a graduate degree in educational administration...but that is irrelevant here).

3. We're not talking about karst topography here (although there is much in various parts of Thailand), nor are we talking about caving...although I admire your adventurism.

4. If you can type on the computer in knee deep water, you can also Google. If not, provide me with a reference later.

[anterian]

Ok one degree plus a Masters, My oldest daughter is a PhD she does not call it an extra degree, likewise my other children all have Masters degrees, the BSc is taken for granted.

Now as to references, here is a quote from wiki, basically saying what I did, but more long winded

"When a river reaches a low-lying plain, often in its final course to the sea or a lake, it meanders widely. In the vicinity of a river bend, deposition occurs on the convexbank (the bank with the smaller radius). In contrast, both lateral erosion and undercutting occur on the cut bank or concave bank (the bank with the greater radius.) Continuous deposition on the convex bank and erosion of the concave bank of a meandering river cause the formation of a very pronounced meanderwith two concave banks getting closer. The narrow neck of land between the two neighboring concave banks is finally cut through, either by lateral erosion of the two concave banks or by the strong currents of a flood. When this happens, a new straighter river channel is created and an abandoned meander loop, called acutoff, is formed. When deposition finally seals off the cutoff from the river channel, an oxbow lake is formed. This process can occur over a time scale from a few years to several decades and may sometimes become essentially static.

Note carefully, " a new straighter river channel is created ", I think this is what I originally wrote and that you took exception to?

By the way, talking of degrees, my youngest daughter has a degree in archaeology, and a Masters in Town and Country planning and is currently the Planning Officer for the Thames River Conservancy board, this involves understanding river hydrology.

[cowslip]

Ok one degree plus a Masters, My oldest daughter is a PhD she does not call it an extra degree, likewise my other children all have Masters degrees, the BSc is taken for granted.

Now as to references, here is a quote from wiki, basically saying what I did, but more long winded

"When a river reaches a low-lying plain, often in its final course to the sea or a lake, it meanders widely. In the vicinity of a river bend, deposition occurs on the convexbank (the bank with the smaller radius). In contrast, both lateral erosion and undercutting occur on the cut bank or concave bank (the bank with the greater radius.) Continuous deposition on the convex bank and erosion of the concave bank of a meandering river cause the formation of a very pronounced meanderwith two concave banks getting closer. The narrow neck of land between the two neighboring concave banks is finally cut through, either by lateral erosion of the two concave banks or by the strong currents of a flood. When this happens, a new straighter river channel is created and an abandoned meander loop, called acutoff, is formed. When deposition finally seals off the cutoff from the river channel, an oxbow lake is formed. This process can occur over a time scale from a few years to several decades and may sometimes become essentially static.

Note carefully, " a new straighter river channel is created ", I think this is what I originally wrote and that you took exception to?

By the way, talking of degrees, my youngest daughter has a degree in archaeology, and a Masters in Town and Country planning and is currently the Planning Officer for the Thames River Conservancy board, this involves understanding river hydrology.

Wrong description for the Bkk area! - It is a DELTA....essentially it is built on an estuary.

[cowslip]

Most of the Bkk area is built on a Delta – it is marsh or swamp that has been reclaimed by human endeavour. I.e. drainage. This elaborate man-made canal system (constructed largely without a central plan) has driedthe land out and allowed people to build on it. The land is barely above sea-level and the down side of the lack of water is allowing the land to gradually sink so the average elevation is slowly decreasing – I think you'llfind that the average elevation is only about 1.3 meters anyway.

As the land is very low and flat drainage to the sea is very slow and always at the mercy of wind and tides so simply building a straight canal will not necessarily help the situation. It is more like the Mississippi,Venice or Amsterdam or even London where barriers, dams, dykes and levies are used to keep areas that are effectively at or below sea level dry.

As for flooding in general it is an essential part of rice-growing and distributes valuable alluvial soils on agricultural land that would otherwise become useless.

THe future will require massive investment in flood protection or re-siting of certain parts of the city. of course with all that "flood" of government money corruption and graft will be rampant........

Edited November 7, 2011 by cowslip

[phetaroi]

...

Now as to references, here is a quote from wiki, basically saying what I did, but more long winded

I told you previously that I am not talking about a meander, I am talking about a meandering river which is at or near base level (which the Chao Phrya river is). Yes, a meander will eventually erode on the bank that faces the erosive power of the current, and often the river cuts through, isolating the old channel, which is called an oxbow lake. That does not stop the meandering nature of the river because the river still has energy which cannot cut down below base level. The river cannot cut below local base level, which in this case is the Gulf Of Thailand. So the energy of the river continues to erode along its banks, usually continuing to create new meanders over hundreds and hundreds of years. If you cruise down the CR, you'll see any number of meanders, through which the river continues to flow. The river has not straightened out. You'll also see old oxbow lakes. And if you really look carefully, you can see even ancient oxbow lakes. The river hasn't straightened out along its overall course, although it may straighten out here and there, while meandering more widely in other places. If sea level should drop, then the energy of the river can resume downcutting, and there will probably be some straightening of the river, but sea level is not dropping, and even then, it is more likely to create incised meanders than straighten out. If sea level is actually rising over a long period of time, base level rises and futher upstream there is a likelihood of new meanders. You have to go north all the way to Kampang Phet before you pass the point beyond which there are no real meanders remaining, and for quite a distance there there is a braided stream effect, another aspect of a river being near base level.

Now you may continue arguing on your end if you want. But there's nothing more for me to add. For me, the discussion is at an end.

[anterian]

...

Now as to references, here is a quote from wiki, basically saying what I did, but more long winded

I told you previously that I am not talking about a meander, I am talking about a meandering river which is at or near base level (which the Chao Phrya river is). Yes, a meander will eventually erode on the bank that faces the erosive power of the current, and often the river cuts through, isolating the old channel, which is called an oxbow lake. That does not stop the meandering nature of the river because the river still has energy which cannot cut down below base level. The river cannot cut below local base level, which in this case is the Gulf Of Thailand. So the energy of the river continues to erode along its banks, usually continuing to create new meanders over hundreds and hundreds of years. If you cruise down the CR, you'll see any number of meanders, through which the river continues to flow. The river has not straightened out. You'll also see old oxbow lakes. And if you really look carefully, you can see even ancient oxbow lakes. The river hasn't straightened out along its overall course, although it may straighten out here and there, while meandering more widely in other places. If sea level should drop, then the energy of the river can resume downcutting, and there will probably be some straightening of the river, but sea level is not dropping, and even then, it is more likely to create incised meanders than straighten out. If sea level is actually rising over a long period of time, base level rises and futher upstream there is a likelihood of new meanders. You have to go north all the way to Kampang Phet before you pass the point beyond which there are no real meanders remaining, and for quite a distance there there is a braided stream effect, another aspect of a river being near base level.

Now you may continue arguing on your end if you want. But there's nothing more for me to add. For me, the discussion is at an end.

"Now you may continue arguing on your end if you want.", hmm, did I start this argument? But glad the discussion is at an end

[anterian]

...

Now as to references, here is a quote from wiki, basically saying what I did, but more long winded

I told you previously that I am not talking about a meander, I am talking about a meandering river which is at or near base level (which the Chao Phrya river is). Yes, a meander will eventually erode on the bank that faces the erosive power of the current, and often the river cuts through, isolating the old channel, which is called an oxbow lake. That does not stop the meandering nature of the river because the river still has energy which cannot cut down below base level. The river cannot cut below local base level, which in this case is the Gulf Of Thailand. So the energy of the river continues to erode along its banks, usually continuing to create new meanders over hundreds and hundreds of years. If you cruise down the CR, you'll see any number of meanders, through which the river continues to flow. The river has not straightened out. You'll also see old oxbow lakes. And if you really look carefully, you can see even ancient oxbow lakes. The river hasn't straightened out along its overall course, although it may straighten out here and there, while meandering more widely in other places. If sea level should drop, then the energy of the river can resume downcutting, and there will probably be some straightening of the river, but sea level is not dropping, and even then, it is more likely to create incised meanders than straighten out. If sea level is actually rising over a long period of time, base level rises and futher upstream there is a likelihood of new meanders. You have to go north all the way to Kampang Phet before you pass the point beyond which there are no real meanders remaining, and for quite a distance there there is a braided stream effect, another aspect of a river being near base level.

Now you may continue arguing on your end if you want. But there's nothing more for me to add. For me, the discussion is at an end.

"Now you may continue arguing on your end if you want.", hmm, did I start this argument? But glad the discussion is at an end

Edited November 7, 2011 by anterian

[bladesama]

how much would it of cost to build enough pump stations, interconnect all waterways and effectively be able to handle this amount of water to prevent this all happening??

and how much will/has it cost the country when you add up, cleaning up, fixing everything damaged, tourism, etc etc

i would think it would of been cheaper to prevent this then deal with the aftermath

stupidity really amazes me

[siampolee]

Webfact # 43

That sums up my rough translation of the Military's 12-point critique of YS government http://bit.ly/tryUt8

Having read the article in English I see that the a whole criticism is correct the military have told the truth, yet to their credit hey have stayed out of the political arena.

Here is a link to the post http://www.bangkokbiznews.com

My apologies to the mods if the link is not allowed, I posted the link in good faith.

Edited November 7, 2011 by siampolee

[cowslip]

how much would it of cost to build enough pump stations, interconnect all waterways and effectively be able to handle this amount of water to prevent this all happening??

and how much will/has it cost the country when you add up, cleaning up, fixing everything damaged, tourism, etc etc

i would think it would of been cheaper to prevent this then deal with the aftermath

stupidity really amazes me

Bkk is not like a bowl or a boat - you have to pump the water out somewhere.........and unless you have defences it will just come back in.

It is not just a river problem it is also the sea so the place is under attack from both sides

[bladesama]

Webfact # 43

That sums up my rough translation of the Military's 12-point critique of YS government http://bit.ly/tryUt8

Having read the article in English I see that the a whole criticism is correct the military have told the truth, yet to their credit hey have stayed out of the political arena.

so when are thai people going to wake up and vote for whats best for their country instead of who is more popular and offers them small bribes... in the long run , voting the way they decide who they vote , they always end up worse off.

[cowslip]

Webfact # 43

That sums up my rough translation of the Military's 12-point critique of YS government http://bit.ly/tryUt8

Having read the article in English I see that the a whole criticism is correct the military have told the truth, yet to their credit hey have stayed out of the political arena.

the military have stayed out because they know that if they were involved they'd get blamed instead.

this is bigger than those who'd like to make political gain out of it.

[bladesama]

how much would it of cost to build enough pump stations, interconnect all waterways and effectively be able to handle this amount of water to prevent this all happening??

and how much will/has it cost the country when you add up, cleaning up, fixing everything damaged, tourism, etc etc

i would think it would of been cheaper to prevent this then deal with the aftermath

stupidity really amazes me

Bkk is not like a bowl or a boat - you have to pump the water out somewhere.........and unless you have defences it will just come back in.

It is not just a river problem it is also the sea so the place is under attack from both sides

precisely why you build big pump stations located in many different areas, and not just pump it out to sea, you can pump it anywhere you chose to.... thereby making it possible to spread out the water across an even greater area and minimizing the effects

defences are great to slow it down and help deal with the deluge so you can pump it out bit by bit, but concentrate of pumping it out to many different areas.

[siampolee]

Bkk is not like a bowl or a boat - you have to pump the water out somewhere.........and unless you have defences it will just come back in

It is not just a river problem it is also the sea so the place is under attack from both sides

Any news regarding Brother No1 and the arrival and commissioning into use of his publicly self acclaimed purchase of water pumps from Korea yet ?

Oh perhaps it's the commission (ing) that's slowing down the job.

Edited November 7, 2011 by siampolee

[siampolee]

cowslip

the military have stayed out because they know that if they were involved they'd get blamed instead.this is bigger than those who'd like to make political gain out of it.

Indeed so true sometimes it is indeed wise to concede ground and lose a battle as a long term victory strategy.

Edited November 7, 2011 by siampolee

[cowslip]

The scale of the disaster is and will continue revealing itself to a group of incompetent politicians and experts, whose only qualification was being born with the right family connections.

The strains that will be placed upon Thai society will, I fear, test it beyond breaking point on all levels. Mediacl, social, political and economic. The propensity for this flood to precipitate unimaginable disorder and chaos is overlooked by micro focusing on the flood's causes and short fix remedies.

In short, this could turn nasty - really, really nasty.

somewhat agreed, and i think the possibility of things turning extremely nasty has been a long(ish) time coming.

i also believe there is incompetence on both sides... and in a non biased, honestly, hand on heart opinion, i truly don't think this crisis would have been handled much better by any Thai political party.

Of course that's completely unprovable and disprovable but it's my genuine view on this.

There is no doubt that yingluck did not cause the floods'

There is no no doubt that nobody could have caused instantly / magically fixed the whole problem.

There is also no doubt that the whole situation could have been better managed.

There is also no doubt that the paymaster surrounded (perhaps should say sacrificed) his ill prepared younger sister (his clone - his own words) with totally incapable / insincere people who could not organize a piss up in a brewery.

And millions of Thais suffer, all for the whims of one very very selfish corrupt man who normally (from afar) has answers (well spun answers)to everything, but now totally quiet.

No doubt after it's all over he will he full of 'after the event' advice. And by the way, where's the big pumps from Korea?

...and there is no doubt that Bangkok was managed by the governor of Bkk a Democrat supporter until the govt took over.

[cowslip]

how much would it of cost to build enough pump stations, interconnect all waterways and effectively be able to handle this amount of water to prevent this all happening??

and how much will/has it cost the country when you add up, cleaning up, fixing everything damaged, tourism, etc etc

i would think it would of been cheaper to prevent this then deal with the aftermath

stupidity really amazes me

Bkk is not like a bowl or a boat - you have to pump the water out somewhere.........and unless you have defences it will just come back in.

It is not just a river problem it is also the sea so the place is under attack from both sides

precisely why you build big pump stations located in many different areas, and not just pump it out to sea, you can pump it anywhere you chose to.... thereby making it possible to spread out the water across an even greater area and minimizing the effects

defences are great to slow it down and help deal with the deluge so you can pump it out bit by bit, but concentrate of pumping it out to many different areas.

I don't think you've got a grasp on the amount of water involved here or the area that it has affected or the face that it is sea as well as river.

Where precisely do you think you are going to "pump" all the water?

Bkk as an area will always flood, and the more it is developed the more it will flood so what is needed is a civil engineering project (over several decades) that will protect the city- or large parts of it - this involves Amsterdam like engineering not just a few pumps.

[bladesama]

how much would it of cost to build enough pump stations, interconnect all waterways and effectively be able to handle this amount of water to prevent this all happening??

and how much will/has it cost the country when you add up, cleaning up, fixing everything damaged, tourism, etc etc

i would think it would of been cheaper to prevent this then deal with the aftermath

stupidity really amazes me

Bkk is not like a bowl or a boat - you have to pump the water out somewhere.........and unless you have defences it will just come back in.

It is not just a river problem it is also the sea so the place is under attack from both sides

precisely why you build big pump stations located in many different areas, and not just pump it out to sea, you can pump it anywhere you chose to.... thereby making it possible to spread out the water across an even greater area and minimizing the effects

defences are great to slow it down and help deal with the deluge so you can pump it out bit by bit, but concentrate of pumping it out to many different areas.

I don't think you've got a grasp on the amount of water involved here or the area that it has affected or the face that it is sea as well as river.

Where precisely do you think you are going to "pump" all the water?

Bkk as an area will always flood, and the more it is developed the more it will flood so what is needed is a civil engineering project (over several decades) that will protect the city- or large parts of it - this involves Amsterdam like engineering not just a few pumps.

then you end up with the same problem as now pretty much,,, ,bangkok is saved for the most part, and the rest suffer for a prolonged period of time.... how is that a good plan??

im not saying many pumps just in bangkok.. im saying all over the place.. there is many places in thailand which are not affected by water... you can set up a massive network of pipes that will not only hold a lot of water but take it hundreds of km elsewhere and pump it into places not affected, they will barely notice it, and the place that do feel it, will have a lot of relief...

as i said its good to have defences, but you cant just protect one area and say screw you to the rest, and the thai people in those areas wont put up with it either, hence why they try destroying dykes etc

[tropo]

It won't be a big problem to know the biggest flood in 50 years for any river basin. Note that RID has the flood data for Chao Phraya catchment for at least 50 years by now. The simplest way to know the biggest flood in 50 years is by looking the past 50 years statistical data.

It's not quite as simple as you may think. For example, a 50 year flood may not come around in 200 years. It's only a 50 year flood in hindsight. Next year we may get a 200 year flood and the year after a 100 year flood. These floods don't work to a clock, you know.

There are many statistical methods to extrapolate it. Just to provide simple example to provide ballpark estimate. If the biggest flood in 50 years for CP catchment is 17 billion cubic meter of rainfall that falls in 7 days, then this biggest flood is 2,500 years can be made up fro two the biggest flood in 50 years that come together. Thus, it magnitude is 34billion cubic meter in 7 days (or 14 days) and its return probability is 1 in 2,500 years.

For a flood control philosophy, it is up to the government of one particular country that has to decide what size of flood it likes to deal with. The bigger its magnitude the lower its return probability and the higher the cost to deal with it. All the the flood control structures will be sized to meet this specific flood size (maximum). Thailand shall have one referenced value. I would say all the structures were designed to deal with the biggest flood in 100 years. Maybe your minister is quite shy to share with others.

You explained that fairly well. Basically no what preparation and money is spent protecting a city from flooding there's always that 'x years + 1' flood that's going to ruin it for everyone.

The only foolproof method is to relocate the city, but then maybe a 10,000 year flood will flood the whole of Thailand no matter what preparation.....

It's nice to sit at home in a dry house crunching numbers.

(It makes one wonder why entire US cities and other cities around the world are built on earthquake faults. The Japanese just discovered the futility of preparing for that big one - because there's always a bigger one on the way)