Victory Monument

[ProfessorFart]

As for all of the knockers here, sometimes it can be nice to meet people outside of a bar. Try it one day!

[Lancelot]

The Victory Monument beer garden has been closed for about a year now. The small bars and food stalls around the defunct beer garden have been closed for about a week. Soi Rang Nam still has a bar or two...

Lance

[The_Moog]

The Thais don't call it Victory Monument. They call it "Anus Safari", which coincidentally is what i'm planning to call my nightclub in the meat-packing district on the lower west side of New York....

...either that or 'The Penile Colony'

[Belfastboy]

Fast Eddie...chill out mate....

if a poster comes on here whinging about how crap someting is...dont we have the right to respond??

most of where making the observation that the scamp seems to whinge a little too much...(always seems to be regarding alcohol )

and as u say...if u dont like the post ..dont read it.. explain this???

didnt think it was humanly possible to know what the post is regarding if u cant read it...! or maybe we are mind readers....

chill out...lol

[Fast Eddie]

Fast Eddie...chill out mate....

if a poster comes on here whinging about how crap someting is...dont we have the right to respond??

most of where making the observation that the scamp seems to whinge a little too much...(always seems to be regarding alcohol )

and as u say...if u dont like the post ..dont read it..  explain this???

didnt think it was humanly possible to know what the post is regarding if u cant read it...! or maybe we are mind readers....

chill out...lol

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course you have the right to respond if you have something to say about the topic, but you have no right to start making it personal for the sake of it. I can only assume that you did not read what he had written as your response was to criticise him for not going to a bar, and labelling his posts boring (by agreeing with expatinasia). He wasn't complaining about the evening he spent with friends drinking on a bench, the post was about the Victory Monument area which he was unimpressed with. Maybe you have something to say about this area?

If his whinging, as you perceive it, does not please you then you have a choice not to read his threads, but don't be an arse for the sake of it. The guy was trying to generate a discussion, what were you trying to do?

I've nothing personal against you and nor was my post purely aimed at what you said, but you must have noticed the number of off topic jibes he is receiving on a number of threads recently, so why add to it? It's just not on to hound someone like that.

If you disagree with me about this, then that is up to you, but i do not wish to derail this thread any further, so if you have any further response to what i have said then please PM me instead.

Edited November 27, 2005 by Fast Eddie

[cdnvic]

As for all of the knockers here, sometimes it can be nice to meet people outside of a bar. Try it one day!

Most guys in Bangkok I know go into bars to see knockers.

cv

[mijan24]

As for all of the knockers here, sometimes it can be nice to meet people outside of a bar. Try it one day!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Most guys in Bangkok I know go into bars to see knockers.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

cv and some - "P"Fart lets get together for a relaxing ale there is a good "Zebra" crossing just near VM great spot a lot of people gather there. (tongue in cheek)

[kat]

Scampy, no worries.  Some feeble-minded people will try to put you down no matter what you do or say.  They have nothing original to say for themselves.

That being said, the next time I sit on a bench to have a few beers, I think I'd rather do it somewhere else    Victory Monumet has pretty much lost it's appeal for me.

1st you critise then you say VM was a waste of time who is the one with the feeble mind?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I say the one with the feeble mind is the one who launches meaningless attacks on people about nothing

What's wrong, do words fail you on more important issues?

[the gent]

Gosh, folk around here do get grumpy about the most innocuous of tings. I like the Scampi's posts. Froth and whimsy are like gossip, seldom consequential but entertaining nevertheless. Keep it coming lad.

I lived near the VM for a year and came to curse it every time I found myself within its polluted embrace. From a distance it promises much but on closer inspection yielded nothing but bloody aggravation with little recompense.

The food stalls were inspected in some sort of government health check which concluded death by squittering was not an unlikely outcome. The local response was the addition of an extra plastic bowl to steep the dishes in more tepid water, a measure which earned them the blue riband of Bankokian hygiene but little else.

A quirk of architecture meant that wherever you wanted to be was always immediately opposite to where you actually where. Traversing the connecting bridges with their engagingly uneven steps, obviously laid by a stonemason afflicted by tourrettes syndrome, risked compound fractures.Concentration focussed downwards to avoid the latter inevitably led to an untoward and potentially enlivening entanglement with deeply sagging power cables strung from a height not fit for the purpose.At night and in the rain it only got better.

The Saxophone should be an oasis but disappoints not least because of its ambitious pricing and the state of the gents toilet from which the stench of stale piss would fell a chang at 50 paces.

Ari is a much better alternative and generally cheaper.

[The_Moog]

How can there be a Victory Monument when Thailand has lost every military campaign its been in.

Invaded by the Cambodians, Burmese, Japanese, .....

Never invaded anyone else.

I suppose it sent a few Nurses to Iraq, if that counts.

[britmaveric]

This obelisk, constructed during the early days of King Rama IX's reign, is composed of reinforced marble and concrete. It was built to memorialize soldiers, policemen and civilians who gave their lives in the service of their country. The Skytrain runs around it, and it is surrounded by shopping malls and fast food eateries. Plus, the roundabout is probably the busiest in the country.

-Yahoo Travel

-Photo Virtual Tourist

[The_Moog]

It was built to memorialize soldiers, policemen and civilians who gave their lives in the service of their country.

So why 'Victory' then?

Sounds like it was more for the taking-part than the winning.

[britmaveric]

It was built to memorialize soldiers, policemen and civilians who gave their lives in the service of their country.

So why 'Victory' then?

Sounds like it was more for the taking-part than the winning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hadn't thought much about it until you mentioned, so hence the look-up. It sounds nice is my only explanation and probably most would think it was war related victory inspired. Guess nothing is what it seems on the surface.

[ProfessorFart]

Victory in WW1 when the Thais fought alsongside the Allied Forces maybe.

I think it was more to do with soldiers who fought in the Franco- Thai war in 1941. Although not really a Thai victory, the Thais outfought the French for a good part of the conflict until the Japanese intervened and a treatee was signed between Vichy and Thailand.

Heres some eye opening pics from the Victory monument in its early days.

Victory monument from bygone days.

Edited November 28, 2005 by ProfessorFart

[britmaveric]

Victory in WW1 when the Thais fought alsongside the Allied Forces maybe.

I think it was more to do with soldiers who fought in the Franco- Thai war in 1941. Although not really a Thai victory, the Thais outfought the French for a good part of the conflict until the Japanese intervened and a treatee was signed between Vichy and Thailand.

Heres some eye opening pics from the Victory monument in its early days.

Victory monument from bygone days.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

War memorial instead of a "Victory Monument" would prob best describe it - actually I thought it was WWII related, guess I was a tad off.

[Neeranam]

I used to ask the folks on the bus when I was stuck in the traffic on the no12, "what is it for?", and not one person gave me an answer.

[cdnvic]

Maybe they consider the fact that they're a free, independant, and democratic country after all the wars, occupations, coups, and other calamities a victory in itself. Not a victory in the traditional sense, a glorious charge and a flag planted at the top of a hill, but one of perserverance over time.

cv

[The_Moog]

Maybe they consider the fact that they're a free, independant, and democratic country after all the wars, occupations, coups, and other calamities a victory in itself. Not a victory in the traditional sense, a glorious charge and a flag planted at the top of a hill, but one of perserverance over time.

Nice try ! But the Victory Monument was erected before all of these social and political achievements were recorded.

[kat]

I read somewhere (in either Wyatt or one of the other history books) that Victory Monument was built after WWII as a show of solidarity with Allied Forces.

As most are well aware, Thailand was invaded and occupied by the Japanese. The official Thai Government at the time acquiesced to Japanese demands in the hopes of regaining formerly lost boundaries in Laos, Cambodia, and Malaysia under the French and English.

But, there was also a Free Thai Movement here that was in opposition to the Japanese Occupation from the beginning, and sympathizers with the Allied Forces. You can goole this and probably find something.

Anyway, when Thailand's occupied government sent a message to the Americans and Allied Forces declaring their loyalty to Japan, the message was never passed on by Thailands Ambassador in America.

So, Victory Monument is largely a symbolic gesture.

Something to this effect, more or less.

[the gent]

Maybe they consider the fact that they're a free, independant, and democratic country after all the wars, occupations, coups, and other calamities a victory in itself. Not a victory in the traditional sense, a glorious charge and a flag planted at the top of a hill, but one of perserverance over time.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have you been drinking?

The notion that this country is free and democratic is at best fanciful if it were not so obscene......but it seems clinging to illusions is the province of the addled headed western refugee peeking through the prism of their own romantic misconceptions.One awaits intelligent discourse.

[cdnvic]

Maybe they consider the fact that they're a free, independant, and democratic country after all the wars, occupations, coups, and other calamities a victory in itself. Not a victory in the traditional sense, a glorious charge and a flag planted at the top of a hill, but one of perserverance over time.

cv

Have you been drinking?

The notion that this country is free and democratic is at best fanciful if it were not so obscene......but it seems clinging to illusions is the province of the addled headed western refugee peeking through the prism of their own romantic misconceptions.One awaits intelligent discourse.

It's a constitutional democracy where people can choose to elect whom they wish. If they do not excercise this right, that is also their choice. There is a system of laws which protect the rights of the individual from undue interference by government, or members of government over the individual's right to speak freely, worship whom they wish, and associate with whom they please.

Are the laws perfect? No. Is the system abused? Often. Do you have to travel far from Thailand to appreciate how free this flawed country is? Not at all.

cv

[the gent]

I rather think there are over 2000 people who might disagree with you on that if, of course, they were alive to argue the constitutional significance of their silence.

[cdnvic]

I rather think there are over 2000 people who might disagree with you on that if, of course, they were alive to argue the constitutional significance of their silence.

If someone had the courage to push the case on their behalf, there's a legal system to deal with it. If they aren't willing to make a stand then it's their choice. Freedom isn't without it's price. In many countries it's not that it's a difficult option to take, but its not an option at all.

cv

[ProfessorFart]

I read somewhere (in either Wyatt or one of the other history books) that Victory Monument was built after WWII as a show of solidarity with Allied Forces.

As most are well aware, Thailand was invaded and occupied by the Japanese. The official Thai Government at the time acquiesced to Japanese demands in the hopes of regaining formerly lost boundaries in Laos, Cambodia, and Malaysia under the French and English.

But, there was also a Free Thai Movement here that was in opposition to the Japanese Occupation from the beginning, and sympathizers with the Allied Forces. You can goole this and probably find something.

Anyway, when Thailand's occupied government sent a message to the Americans and Allied Forces declaring their loyalty to Japan, the message was never passed on by Thailands Ambassador in America.

So, Victory Monument is largely a symbolic gesture.

Something to this effect, more or less.

It almost certainly is a symbolic gesture.

I think there is a certain amount of grey areas as to whom the monument was specifically built for particularly due to the polar political situation in post WW2 Thailand.

Kat's explaination is certainly a key indicator which is why it is common for visting dignitaries from Allied nations to lay wreathes there. It is also a factor that Pridi Panomyong and Seni Pramoj were instrumental in its conception and building; Both of whom were connected, albeit in differing degrees, to the Seri Thai movement.

Subsequent regimes post 1948 however, are highly unlikely to have given creedence to the Seri Thai movement and their supporters, who were at the opposite side of the political spectrum from the Pibunsongkhram clique. Therefore that the monument is 'officially' dedicated to those who fought in the Franco - Thai war is more plausible.

There is supposedly an inscription but in the few times I've tried to cross over to read it I'm buggered if I can get across.

[Katmandu]

http://www.thailand.com/travel/historical/...al_monument.htm

"The Victory Monument, located within a traffic circle, was built to honor 59 officers, policemen, government officials and plain civilians who sacrificed their lives during the conflict between Thailand and French Indochina in January 1939.

The monument is decorated with five statues representing the Army, Navy, Air Force, Police and Civilian war heroes whose names are engraved on a bronze plate attached to the monument.

Today, people tend to think of the Victory Monument as an area notorious for traffic congestion and as a hub for connecting buses to the outlying areas of Bangkok."

http://www.thailand.com/travel/historical/...kok_victory.htm

"The monument was erected in 1941 by the Pibulsongkhram administration in honor of the heroic deeds of soldiers and civilians who died during the border dispute between Thailand and France."

http://tour-bangkok-legacies.com/victory-monument.html

"The Victory Monument consists of an obelisk ringed by six statues representing the army, navy, air force, police and civilians.

These were the casualties in the border war with France from November 1940 – January 1941, over the disputed provinces of Battambang and Siem Reap, in what is presently Cambodia and territories to the west of the Mekong River along the Thai-Laos border."

[WhiteShiva]

I rather think there are over 2000 people who might disagree with you on that if, of course, they were alive to argue the constitutional significance of their silence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If someone had the courage to push the case on their behalf, there's a legal system to deal with it. If they aren't willing to make a stand then it's their choice. Freedom isn't without it's price. In many countries it's not that it's a difficult option to take, but its not an option at all.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Does the name Somchai Neelapaijit mean anything to you? He made a stand, and payed the price......

Some option......

[kat]

Katmandu, you'll find that if you scan further down the article, the link to WW II and terrirtorial disputes are clear:

... " In 1940 after the defeat of the Vichy government in France by Nazi Germany, Thailand under Phibun Songkhram tried to reclaim border territories lost in 1893 when the French navy blockaded the Chao Phraya.

In November 1940, Thai troops advanced into the area west of the Mekong River opposite Luang Prabang and Champasak in Laos and Battambang and Siem Reap in Cambodia. ...

At sea, there was also a naval engagement between the Thai and French navies near Koh Chang or Elephant Island in the Gulf of Thailand near the Thai-Cambodian border. Historical accounts differ as to the actual events in this naval battle.

Three Thai ships were sunk with one badly damaged. The French navy returned unscathed to Saigon in spite of being pursued and bombed by Thai airplanes.

What can't be disputed is that the Thai navy suffered a serious blow. Japan, already in North Vietnam at that time, intervened and forced a ceasefire in January 1941. A treaty was signed in March 1941 allowing Thailand to retain the disputed territories.

After World War II, Thailand had to return Siem Reap and Battambang to France as part of the reparations for its wartime collaboration with Japan.

The names of the fallen servicemen and civilians are inscribed around the base of the monument, which is fenced in and surrounded by trees. "

Things are usually not stated in a straight-forward manner here, especially history.

[raybkk]

Victory Monument, a place which is nice to look at, great for sunset photos of the skytrain, and good for meeting and eating and shopping with friends

The above is for those who read only the title and not the post.

Victory Monument is a NICE part of Bangkok and it is the most central point in Bangkok.

Why not get in a cab or get on the skytrain and go somewhere else, instead of sitting on a bench and grumbling about it?

We actually had a very nice time and it made a change, the point of the thread is, bino, WHY is is that VM is so thin on places to have a drink?

Could it be for the reason I suggested?

I can only assume the absence of more bars in an area with such potential is down to the fact that it is mostly populated by students and young Thais.

As I said, not grumbled, it was a little annoying at the time but when all had arrived we decided it was too much hassle to go anywhere else and it wasn't so bad after all, though not a spot I would choose again as it was almost as noisy as Saxaphone, what with the traffic and everything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just around the corner is Soi Rangnaam. There are lots of pubs! Just a 2 minute walk. Take the water bar for example. Great food and beers starting at Baht 50.- all night long.

[dantilley]

Just around the corner is Soi Rangnaam. There are lots of pubs! Just a 2 minute walk. Take the water bar for example. Great food and beers starting at Baht 50.- all night long.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've never noticed any bars down Soi Rangnam. A few very good Isaan restaurants though. Saxophone would be my pick of the area.

[zzap]

It's a constitutional democracy where people can choose to elect whom they wish.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thailand is a constitutional monarchy.

As is the case in the United Kingdom (sic), the Royals don't usually interfere directly with the affairs of the elected government, but they do have considerable powers, including veto and command of the armed forces.