Honda Crf 250L

[wantan]

i like the looks of this one. though i doubt it can be road registered and weight is not given or price. Compression is 9.0:1 so will be down on power compared to CBR (CRF?)250 and KLX. Anyone have more info?

http://atv.co.th/atv_detail_31.php

Seems to be the Gpx ZF250 discussed in this thread. Looks nice, cheap and powerful for someone really wants to do a bit motocross.

[taichiplanet]

i like the looks of this one. though i doubt it can be road registered and weight is not given or price. Compression is 9.0:1 so will be down on power compared to CBR (CRF?)250 and KLX. Anyone have more info?

http://atv.co.th/atv_detail_31.php

It is a moto-x bike!

Why do you think it will be down on power compared to CBR (CRF?)250 and KLX?

Compression and power is not the same thing?

I thought it was. This link seems to think so too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_ratio

"A high compression ratio is desirable because it allows an engine to extract more mechanical energy from a given mass of air-fuel mixture due to its higher thermal efficiency. High ratios place the available oxygen and fuel molecules into a reduced space along with the adiabatic heat of compression–causing better mixing and evaporation of the fuel droplets.Thus they allow increased power at the moment of ignition and the extraction of more useful work from that power by expanding the hot gas to a greater degree"

[taichiplanet]

i like the looks of this one. though i doubt it can be road registered and weight is not given or price. Compression is 9.0:1 so will be down on power compared to CBR (CRF?)250 and KLX. Anyone have more info?

http://atv.co.th/atv_detail_31.php

Seems to be the Gpx ZF250 discussed in this thread. Looks nice, cheap and powerful for someone really wants to do a bit motocross.

Thanks for the link. It would be nice to get feed back from someone that has used it off road.

[nikster]

Why not make your own thread for that GPX bike? Call it cheap Chinese bikes or something....

Best thing about this one is the pretty - hot! The bike... not so much.

[taichiplanet]

Why not make your own thread for that GPX bike? Call it cheap Chinese bikes or something....

Best thing about this one is the pretty - hot! The bike... not so much.

You're prejudice is showing! There are numerous posts about the KLX and you don't complain but a couple of posts about a chinese bike and ......

It's inevitable that there will be comparisons, and until we get hard facts and test rides we are all just pissing in the wind at the moment!

[kaorop]

Honda built a XL200R (factory legal dual sport) in the early eighties that weighed less than 260lbs.

This new 320lb Honda CRF250L weighs almost as much as a XRL650 or KLR650 but will have half the power, a lot less ground clearance and very basic suspension....

What a shame Kawasaki still doesn't sell the KLR650 in Thailand! It's manufactured here but until they add FI it seems they are unable to get it to meet the strict Thai emissions standards...

[deemon]

i like the looks of this one. though i doubt it can be road registered and weight is not given or price. Compression is 9.0:1 so will be down on power compared to CBR (CRF?)250 and KLX. Anyone have more info?

http://atv.co.th/atv_detail_31.php

It is a moto-x bike!

Why do you think it will be down on power compared to CBR (CRF?)250 and KLX?

Compression and power is not the same thing?

I thought it was. This link seems to think so too.

http://en.wikipedia....mpression_ratio

"A high compression ratio is desirable because it allows an engine to extract more mechanical energy from a given mass of air-fuel mixture due to its higher thermal efficiency. High ratios place the available oxygen and fuel molecules into a reduced space along with the adiabatic heat of compression–causing better mixing and evaporation of the fuel droplets.Thus they allow increased power at the moment of ignition and the extraction of more useful work from that power by expanding the hot gas to a greater degree"

Another aspect is to put in more air and fuel.

[taninthai]

i like the looks of this one. though i doubt it can be road registered and weight is not given or price. Compression is 9.0:1 so will be down on power compared to CBR (CRF?)250 and KLX. Anyone have more info?

http://atv.co.th/atv_detail_31.php

Product Name: ZF250 cc.

Engine 4-stroke - cooled by water.

Compression ratio. 9.0: 1.

Cylinder capacity. 250 c.

Lubrication system. The pump rotor.

The ignition system. CDI.

Carburettor VM-49.

Ignition system. Start, Kick.

Clutch system. Mechanism.

Fuel. Gasoline 91.

Capacity fuel tank. 5 liters.

Transmission. Content Standard 5-matrix.

Oil capacity. 1 liter.

Dimension.

Length X width X height. 840x2, 160x1, 220 mm

Height from floor to seat. 980 mm

The height of the motor unit to the State. 330 mm The center.

The front - back 1490 mm

Turning circle. 2100 mm

Suspension.

Front UP SIDE DOWN.

Rear Single shock absorber.

Brake system.

Front Disc brakes. Rear Disc brakes.

Tyres

Front 80/100-21 ". Rear 110/100-18 ".

Body Color. Black / orange / red.

As I mentioned in the other thread there is a 140cc version of these I had 2 in 4 days first 1 wouldn't start with the kick starter got a replacement bike and that 1 was leaking fuel where the fuel cock joined the plastic tank lesson learned for me never ever buy a cheap Chinese bike....

As for the crf 250 rang my dealer yesterday he said end of month maybe , still no idea on price

Noticed on one of the other threads that the new PVC is starting to get delivered from 19/20 march so just maybe there might be a few crf s in with them..,,,,,

[BigBikeBKK]

i like the looks of this one. though i doubt it can be road registered and weight is not given or price. Compression is 9.0:1 so will be down on power compared to CBR (CRF?)250 and KLX. Anyone have more info?

http://atv.co.th/atv_detail_31.php

It is a moto-x bike!

Why do you think it will be down on power compared to CBR (CRF?)250 and KLX?

Compression and power is not the same thing?

Basic physics, isn't it? If you have two engines of EQUAL displacement, the one with higher COMPRESSION will create more POWER, no?

[wantan]

i like the looks of this one. though i doubt it can be road registered and weight is not given or price. Compression is 9.0:1 so will be down on power compared to CBR (CRF?)250 and KLX. Anyone have more info?

http://atv.co.th/atv_detail_31.php

It is a moto-x bike!

Why do you think it will be down on power compared to CBR (CRF?)250 and KLX?

Compression and power is not the same thing?

Basic physics, isn't it? If you have two engines of EQUAL displacement, the one with higher COMPRESSION will create more POWER, no?

Don't think so. Compression isn't the only thing that affects the power output.

PS:

Its obvious that the ZF250 has much more power than a KLX

[dave_boo]

i like the looks of this one. though i doubt it can be road registered and weight is not given or price. Compression is 9.0:1 so will be down on power compared to CBR (CRF?)250 and KLX. Anyone have more info?

http://atv.co.th/atv_detail_31.php

It is a moto-x bike!

Why do you think it will be down on power compared to CBR (CRF?)250 and KLX?

Compression and power is not the same thing?

Basic physics, isn't it? If you have two engines of EQUAL displacement, the one with higher COMPRESSION will create more POWER, no?

Not necessarily.

HP is (Torque x RPM) / 5252. So really it comes down to where your peak torque is and how badly it trails off. There's a multitude of issues that affect this. Cam lift/duration/overlap. Head design. Intake/exhaust restrictions. Emissions standards being met. Allowed engine temperature. Number of cylinders. Etc.

[nikster]

Why not make your own thread for that GPX bike? Call it cheap Chinese bikes or something....

Best thing about this one is the pretty - hot! The bike... not so much.

You're prejudice is showing! There are numerous posts about the KLX and you don't complain but a couple of posts about a chinese bike and ......

It's inevitable that there will be comparisons, and until we get hard facts and test rides we are all just pissing in the wind at the moment!

Well maybe it's just me but in my mind the KLX250 is a direct competitor to this new Honda, whereas the Chinese / Malay -brand bikes compete in their own class - like "which one is most likely to make it all the way home from the dealership?"

... I talked with a Platinum owner once he told me any time he went out on his Platinum there was about a 50% chance he'd come back with it on the back of a Pick-up. Needless to say he was tired of that and the conversation took place at the Kawa dealer where he was getting a KLX....

So yeah I'll just zone out now, few things hold less interest to me than the latest Chinese cheapo-bike... but feel free to discuss it here in the Honda CRF250 thread, I don't want to play forum police. I am able to ignore some posts... I think...

Edited March 11, 2012 by nikster

[YipYipYa123]

These low cost Chinese bikes are a safety hazard,I would not ride one above about 40-50kmph for fear of it falling to bits , my neighbor had a ryuka and he was well proud of its low price...... For a couple of days until someone noticed one of the welds coming apart.... That was the first of a long list of stuff and within a couple of months he thrown in the towel and bought a Yamaha 135 like I advised him to get innitially

[taichiplanet]

Okay, back to the CRF250L. Honda Japan have an artsy vid that doesn't give any information and shows light dirt road use. At least it has a couple of close up shots of the bike, if you can see past the superimposed water drops.

http://www.honda.co.jp/movie/201202/crf250l/

[JonnyF]

Looking at this bike I can't see any way it's 20 kgs heavier than the klx. It looks physically smaller, the engine can't be that heavy as the CBr250 is pretty light and the frame and swing arm dont look massively substantial to me. I reckon those Aus figures will be way off when the specs are released. I expect a bike at around 110000 baht with similar weight and power to the klx.

This bike will be a cheap version of the klx in the same way as the CBr250 is a cheap version of the Ninja. It will be an absolute bargain in LOS, although i suspect the klx will be a better bike over the course of 5 years, especially if the CRF has the same teething problems as the cbr.

That's enough predictions for one night

Edited March 12, 2012 by JonnyF

[taninthai]

I believe it's only 9 kg heavier than the klx

[BigBikeBKK]

I believe it's only 9 kg heavier than the klx

At 138Kg the KLX is certainly no lightweight but that doesn't excuse Honda from making the CRF250L even heavier!

Like the Ninjette 250 / CB'r' 250 debate it will come down to performance, price, quality and service.

I prefer to pay a bit more to get the better bike. But that's just me

[wana]

I believe it's only 9 kg heavier than the klx

I prefer to pay a bit more to get the better bike

its a tad early to declare the klx "the better bike "

we dont even know the real spec of the crf yet

or even the price .......

[taninthai]

I believe it's only 9 kg heavier than the klx

I prefer to pay a bit more to get the better bike

its a tad early to declare the klx "the better bike "

we dont even know the real spec of the crf yet

or even the price .......

Oh so it's already decided the klx is better I believe the crf is gonna have the better engine so then does that make the crf the better bike,

I'm not really bothered which is better there both for novices as far as I'm concerned and not a lot to separate them I buy the bike that suits my needs and budget , the only way Honda are gonna shoot themselves in the foot is if they overprice this bike again I say if the klx is 30-40 k more you would expect it to be considerably better at the moment can't really see what warrants the huge extra cost of the klx

[madjbs]

Actually you are not really correct there. These bikes are not just for novices, but for people who want to go trail riding and need a road legal bike to do so. They are also good for novices and light riding around town/commutes, but that is not their primary purpose.The KLX is one of the better trail bikes on the dirt along with the Yamaha WR-R (which is much more expensive and not available here). The CRF-L is quite clearly not going to be very good on the dirt, so would suit someone not looking to do much trail riding or only light off road. As for the extra cost, try less weight, more ground clearance, more suspension for a start!

Edited March 13, 2012 by madjbs

[madjbs]

I have pretty much decided to buy a 2T 125cc MX bike and modify it for trail use. It won't be road legal but that's ok in Thailand and I will probably trailer it to most places. It's the only way to get a super light (95kg) bike with decent power (30+hp), without spending 450k on the KTM or heavily modifying the KLX (which still ends up being quite expensive and heavy anyway).

Edited March 13, 2012 by madjbs

[BigBikeBKK]

I believe it's only 9 kg heavier than the klx

I prefer to pay a bit more to get the better bike

its a tad early to declare the klx "the better bike "

we dont even know the real spec of the crf yet

or even the price .......

Oh so it's already decided the klx is better I believe the crf is gonna have the better engine so then does that make the crf the better bike,

I'm not really bothered which is better there both for novices as far as I'm concerned and not a lot to separate them I buy the bike that suits my needs and budget , the only way Honda are gonna shoot themselves in the foot is if they overprice this bike again I say if the klx is 30-40 k more you would expect it to be considerably better at the moment can't really see what warrants the huge extra cost of the klx

You'd have to define "better" before you declare the the KLX is the better bike

If "better" means, less weight, more clearance, better suspension and more available mods then yeah, I think the KLX has a definite advantage.

But if you you define better as cheaper and more fuel efficient then the Honda CRF250L is probably the "better" of the two.

[wana]

its a bit early to call either of them better because nobody has sat on the thai spec crf yet

there have been many rumours of specifications but not even the price is confirmed

yet ,knowing honda ,i dont think it will be built too low spec and may even have some

notable improvments over the klx

[JonnyF]

its a bit early to call either of them better because nobody has sat on the thai spec crf yet

there have been many rumours of specifications but not even the price is confirmed

yet ,knowing honda ,i dont think it will be built too low spec and may even have some

notable improvments over the klx

Hmmm, given the info given so far and Honda's recent releases (especially the CBr250) I'd have to say the writing is on the wall. The one plus with the crf is that at least they've put the thumper engine into an appropriate chassis (a dirt bike) this time.

But let's wait and see. I'd love it if this bike was better than the klx for 30,000 baht less. But I don't think it will be.

[wana]

its a bit early to call either of them better because nobody has sat on the thai spec crf yet

there have been many rumours of specifications but not even the price is confirmed

yet ,knowing honda ,i dont think it will be built too low spec and may even have some

notable improvments over the klx

Hmmm, given the info given so far and Honda's recent releases (especially the CBr250) I'd have to say the writing is on the wall. The one plus with the crf is that at least they've put the thumper engine into an appropriate chassis (a dirt bike) this time.

But let's wait and see. I'd love it if this bike was better than the klx for 30,000 baht less. But I don't think it will be.

the dealer i spoke to weeks ago seemed to be under the impression it was going to cost the same as the cbr 250 (100k )

i told him il take one on the spot and i would have paid a deposit if they let me

i am sure honda could build a simple dirtbike for 100k if they can manage to get a profit from the cbr 250 at that 100k mark also

but only time will telll

[dave_boo]

You'd have to define "better" before you declare the the KLX is the better bike

If "better" means, less weight, more clearance, better suspension and more available mods then yeah, I think the KLX has a definite advantage.

But if you you define better as cheaper and more fuel efficient then the Honda CRF250L is probably the "better" of the two.

Better suspension? According to Wikipedia the KLX has 43mm forks...same as what Honda Australia is claiming. However the KLX does offer 16 way compression damping on the forks (and compression/rebound on the shock) which is an unknown on the Honda right now. How much of a difference is an 1.44 in (36.64mm)? I honestly don't know! From the centreline of the front wheel I eyeball less than 2 in that the engine hangs below; is someone going to be tackling things that will extended to their front axle on these bikes (obviously not on the CRF)? These are not trick questions.

I also like how you left off engine performance in your analysis. How quickly you've changed your tune. The Ninja has ~0,12 kg/hp advantage on the CBR; assuming the CRF does not detune the CBR engine the CRF will have a 1,06 kg/hp advantage over the KLX. Even decreasing the power down by 13% to further increase torque will have the CRF at the same advantage that the Ninja has over the CBR.

Hmmm, given the info given so far and Honda's recent releases (especially the CBr250) I'd have to say the writing is on the wall. The one plus with the crf is that at least they've put the thumper engine into an appropriate chassis (a dirt bike) this time.

But let's wait and see. I'd love it if this bike was better than the klx for 30,000 baht less. But I don't think it will be.

That's really all we have, isn't it; waiting. The trouble and strife already knows that I will get one; already has 120k set aside for it. Will be good to get back on a Honda even if it is the inferior bike; the money saved will go a long way towards replacement parts that will arise from learning to ride off road.

[madjbs]

If you are planning to use the bike for off road and the OZ specs are true, then the KLX is the bike to get. 148kg and 258mm ground clearance is pathetic for a bike that you supposedly can take off road, as a beginner you would struggle to handle a 148kg bike on anything but a gravel track.

Why are you so determined to prove the CRF is better trail bike when the specs (if true) clearly show it is not. The engine may be more powerful but that is only a small factor for an off road bike. Weight, suspension and clearance are VERY important.

[taninthai]

If you are planning to use the bike for off road and the OZ specs are true, then the KLX is the bike to get. 148kg and 258mm ground clearance is pathetic for a bike that you supposedly can take off road, as a beginner you would struggle to handle a 148kg bike on anything but a gravel track.

Why are you so determined to prove the CRF is better trail bike when the specs (if true) clearly show it is not. The engine may be more powerful but that is only a small factor for an off road bike. Weight, suspension and clearance are VERY important.

Hi madjbs

As I have said many times in this thread I am not trying to say/prove the crf is the better bike I have said I fully expect the klx to be better as it is 30-40 k more expensive what does annoy me is people slagging this bike of because it's 147 kg and yet the klx is supposedly a great bike just because it's 9 kg lighter, I'm not interested in getting involved in the which is better discussion I read enough of that in cbr/ninja thread and it ended up like little children bickering and crying over spilt milk.

I'm not one off these people that has to have the best all the time just a bike that suits my budget and needs ,obviously if I wanted the best trail bike I would not be buying the klx or crf

[BigBikeBKK]

You'd have to define "better" before you declare the the KLX is the better bike

If "better" means, less weight, more clearance, better suspension and more available mods then yeah, I think the KLX has a definite advantage.

But if you you define better as cheaper and more fuel efficient then the Honda CRF250L is probably the "better" of the two.

Better suspension? According to Wikipedia the KLX has 43mm forks...same as what Honda Australia is claiming. However the KLX does offer 16 way compression damping on the forks (and compression/rebound on the shock) which is an unknown on the Honda right now. How much of a difference is an 1.44 in (36.64mm)? I honestly don't know! From the centreline of the front wheel I eyeball less than 2 in that the engine hangs below; is someone going to be tackling things that will extended to their front axle on these bikes (obviously not on the CRF)? These are not trick questions.

I also like how you left off engine performance in your analysis. How quickly you've changed your tune. The Ninja has ~0,12 kg/hp advantage on the CBR; assuming the CRF does not detune the CBR engine the CRF will have a 1,06 kg/hp advantage over the KLX. Even decreasing the power down by 13% to further increase torque will have the CRF at the same advantage that the Ninja has over the CBR.

Hmmm, given the info given so far and Honda's recent releases (especially the CBr250) I'd have to say the writing is on the wall. The one plus with the crf is that at least they've put the thumper engine into an appropriate chassis (a dirt bike) this time.

But let's wait and see. I'd love it if this bike was better than the klx for 30,000 baht less. But I don't think it will be.

That's really all we have, isn't it; waiting. The trouble and strife already knows that I will get one; already has 120k set aside for it. Will be good to get back on a Honda even if it is the inferior bike; the money saved will go a long way towards replacement parts that will arise from learning to ride off road.

What drivel is this? The CB'r' has more power than the Ninjette? C'mon Dave, everyone knows that's patently false.

I don't talk about the engine in the CRF250L because we don't know anything about it yet. It's the same lump that in the CB'r' 250 but it's likely it will be tuned for more torque and less top end. Have to wait and see.

I will agree that a stock KLX is gutless in it's restricted form. Fortunately it's very easy to de-restrict.

I'm guessing that like me, you are new to trail and dirt riding. I had to pick up my KLX 4 or 5 times yesterday and it's quite a bit lighter than stock. You choose to ignore the extra weight and lack of clearance on the CFR250L but believe me, when it comes time to actually get out there and ride the thing you'll be feeling every extra kilo and lamenting the fact that your CRF250L won't be able to go where the KLX250 can due to it's lack of ground clearance.

Then again, seems you pretty much only ride by yourself these days, so I guess you won't have anything to compare your bike to out in the real world. Perhaps that's as it should be

[BigBikeBKK]

If you are planning to use the bike for off road and the OZ specs are true, then the KLX is the bike to get. 148kg and 258mm ground clearance is pathetic for a bike that you supposedly can take off road, as a beginner you would struggle to handle a 148kg bike on anything but a gravel track.

Why are you so determined to prove the CRF is better trail bike when the specs (if true) clearly show it is not. The engine may be more powerful but that is only a small factor for an off road bike. Weight, suspension and clearance are VERY important.

Hi madjbs

As I have said many times in this thread I am not trying to say/prove the crf is the better bike I have said I fully expect the klx to be better as it is 30-40 k more expensive what does annoy me is people slagging this bike of because it's 147 kg and yet the klx is supposedly a great bike just because it's 9 kg lighter, I'm not interested in getting involved in the which is better discussion I read enough of that in cbr/ninja thread and it ended up like little children bickering and crying over spilt milk.

I'm not one off these people that has to have the best all the time just a bike that suits my budget and needs ,obviously if I wanted the best trail bike I would not be buying the klx or crf

No one knows what the CRF250L will sell for and anyway, regardless of the MSRP that AP Honda might publish, we've all seen with the new CB'r' that the dealers are free to price gouge as much as they like so it's anyone's guess what the new CFR250L might actually sell for.

Why do you only focus on the weight difference, which is clearly in the KLX250's favor? Not only is the KLX lighter than the CRF250L, but it's also got more clearance, better suspension, proven reliability and TONS of aftermarket parts.

No doubt the Honda will be cheaper and more fuel efficient. IMO the Honda is aimed at a different market segment than the Kwacker.

No need to take offense- it's great that a new bike is coming to the Thai market! As for which bike to get, it all depends on what you want to use it for.

Edited March 14, 2012 by BigBikeBKK