Not interested in a woman who can't support herself from the start. Less chance of being stiffed. Ahem...

Edit: I don't just mean financially either.

Not interested in a woman who can't support herself from the start. Less chance of being stiffed. Ahem...

Edit: I don't just mean financially either.

That is why "rentals" are much preferred by some of us. At least you can walk away without losing what you've worked to hard to accumulate. It allows you to be generous... but on your own terms. But, we are straying off eek's topic.

She asked why farang men are negative towards western women. I believe that only a small percentage of men are, but it's much more noticeable here in Thailand where men have a choice. In North America and the UK men just suffer in silence. Or, they spend most of their time crying to their buddies in the local pub when they are stuck in a marriage that isn't working. Thailand is no utopia for men, but it does have its options. A Thai man can impregnate a dozen women and walk away without paying any support. A man can't do that in most western countries or the law will find you. Too bad there isn't some happy medium.

I am not down on western women, so I am not even going to hypothesize on other's (miss-guided...) judgement.

Since this is a why topic I just want to know why Thai men have much larger bladder's than their western counterparts????

I didn't know they had Morris Dancing in Thailand.

I think it is an obtuse brave attempt to steer the topic to rugby league...

Good job Soundman, you're a sound man in my book

SC

A western man is naturally going to notice the differences and make unfair generalizations.

Only if he is a plonker.

I'm not yet 40 Ian but I wouldn't look for a long term relationship with a lassie under 25...a one nighter for sure..

Nah when you look for a partner other things are more important and I can't see my life experience and a young Thai lassies being compatible.

What's plonker? Nothing wrong with a little plonking providing both parties are mature and enjoyng themselves.

There is a big difference between when you are looking for a long term partner and when you are just out for a bit of fun. What's that old saying... "Never take a beautiful woman as your wife"

Men and women are so different that ANY long term relationship is a struggle. And, with so many personalities coming into play it makes it even more likely to have problems. Then there are the power struggles. Who gets to call all the shots? Ideally, it should be a compromise, but it seldom is. Women use manipulation and men try to use physical power. Men usually lose out in that struggle... except for the ones that go bonkers and kill everyone.

Plonker. When you have a little spare time, you really need to look up Del'Boy Trotter in Only Fools & Horses, a UK sitcom, the wine bar escapade is particulary insightful.

Ian, you often use the analolgy of women using sex as a manipulative tool and men power, I can only guess we have lived in separate, vastly differing worlds, and as I write, I thank Heaven for even such small mercies.

That is why "rentals" are much preferred by some of us.

ian, why do you have to use such a derogatory term?

I'm currently based in a part of the UK where there is an abundance of attractive women of all ages from many nationalities

No deep analysis required

Some guys have obviously been away too long

Most barstools and internet forums contribute a fairly even handed slagging off of former Thai partners now.... fat, frumpy, aging badly, greedy slags are terms heard regularly, obviously having been carefully stored away after the failed western relationships.

The perceived perfection of a new relationship, as in when she is still picking up your shirts of the floor, doesn't really favour one ethnic group.

As for the unfortunate who were unable to achieve a relationship in the West, I've not really heard them criticise Western women, they are usually too happy playing "man of the world" with their new partner, purchased or otherwise.

That is why "rentals" are much preferred by some of us.

ian, why do you have to use such a derogatory term?

It's NOT a derogatory term, Mossy. I'm just stating a fact that there are women who provide a worthwhile service for a fee. The service can be anything you want to make of it. I've got the greatest respect for these women. It sure beats the lying and cheating ones.

And, if you've never seen women manipulate men then you are living in some sanctuary somewhere. I've seen it happen everywhere I've been for the past 60 years when I finally got to see what was going on. I was raised in the old fashioned system where men were providers and protectors, and women were the home makers and the nurturers. I sure got my eyes opened in a hurry.

I'm just realistic to what actually goes on around me. I'm pretty observant in watching the games people play.

A western man is naturally going to notice the differences and make unfair generalizations.

Only if he is a plonker.

I'm not yet 40 Ian but I wouldn't look for a long term relationship with a lassie under 25...a one nighter for sure..

Nah when you look for a partner other things are more important and I can't see my life experience and a young Thai lassies being compatible.

What's plonker? Nothing wrong with a little plonking providing both parties are mature and enjoyng themselves.

There is a big difference between when you are looking for a long term partner and when you are just out for a bit of fun. What's that old saying... "Never take a beautiful woman as your wife"

Men and women are so different that ANY long term relationship is a struggle. And, with so many personalities coming into play it makes it even more likely to have problems. Then there are the power struggles. Who gets to call all the shots? Ideally, it should be a compromise, but it seldom is. Women use manipulation and men try to use physical power. Men usually lose out in that struggle... except for the ones that go bonkers and kill everyone.

Plonker. When you have a little spare time, you really need to look up Del'Boy Trotter in Only Fools & Horses, a UK sitcom, the wine bar escapade is particulary insightful.

Ian, you often use the analolgy of women using sex as a manipulative tool and men power, I can only guess we have lived in separate, vastly differing worlds, and as I write, I thank Heaven for even such small mercies.

I was serious when I said I didn't know what a plonker was. I assumed it was some derogatory comment about men who spend a fair portion of their time in bars while moaning to their limited group of friends about life in general. I DID check out "Del'Boy Trotter in Only Fools & Horses" on Wickie and you tube, but it didn't give an answer. Del'Boy Trotter in Only Fools & Horses looks like it was a good show. We don't get much British humour on Canadian tv. It's mostly US crap that I can't be bothered watching. The fact is that I seldom watch tv at all, and even then it's mostly just the few sports that I follow.

I also meant what I said about "rentals". I am too old for a commited relationship, but I still very much enjoy the company of women. I'm willing to help out their financial situation in return for some company for a night, a day, a week or several months. Nobody has the illusion that it is more than that. That doesn't mean that both of us are not enjoying ourselves. It's far better than some marriage that one or both partners are having a hard time with.

That is why "rentals" are much preferred by some of us.

ian, why do you have to use such a derogatory term?

It's NOT a derogatory term, Mossy. I'm just stating a fact that there are women who provide a worthwhile service for a fee. The service can be anything you want to make of it. I've got the greatest respect for these women. It sure beats the lying and cheating ones.

And, if you've never seen women manipulate men then you are living in some sanctuary somewhere. I've seen it happen everywhere I've been for the past 60 years when I finally got to see what was going on. I was raised in the old fashioned system where men were providers and protectors, and women were the home makers and the nurturers. I sure got my eyes opened in a hurry.

I'm just realistic to what actually goes on around me. I'm pretty observant in watching the games people play.

actually it is derogatory and seems to show that you view women as a commodity and not as human beings replete with feelings and lives. But i think you have already made that clear from your many previous posts.

I had to look that up.

I can see how this form of dancing would lead to a bloated bladder.

I'm going to be really really boring now, apart from the hankies, a traditional part of the Morris Dancers routine is an inflated pigs bladder on a stick and tying a virgin to a pole, that's the sort of stuff that you would be proud to tell your grandchildren.

Yeah, but where do you find a virgin?

Raid a nursery ?

They reckon that if a virgin walks under the Liver Building in Liverpool the Liver Birds will take off and fly away.

I was serious when I said I didn't know what a plonker was. I assumed it was some derogatory comment about men who spend a fair portion of their time in bars while moaning to their limited group of friends about life in general. I DID check out "Del'Boy Trotter in Only Fools & Horses" on Wickie and you tube, but it didn't give an answer. Del'Boy Trotter in Only Fools & Horses looks like it was a good show. We don't get much British humour on Canadian tv. It's mostly US crap that I can't be bothered watching. The fact is that I seldom watch tv at all, and even then it's mostly just the few sports that I follow.

I also meant what I said about "rentals". I am too old for a commited relationship, but I still very much enjoy the company of women. I'm willing to help out their financial situation in return for some company for a night, a day, a week or several months. Nobody has the illusion that it is more than that. That doesn't mean that both of us are not enjoying ourselves. It's far better than some marriage that one or both partners are having a hard time with.

I know you were serious about the term plonker, although it can be used in a derogatory manner, Del'boy uses it in a much more casual, affectionate prose, I also seldom watch TV, but if it is on, I will generally watch to the end, it has very little to do with bar stool Daddys bemoaning western women, although Del has had little luck until his latter years.

Ian, trust me, Rental is seriously demeaning, even though as you state both parties are aware of the contract, the screaming and the whooping are purely down to getting the best tip, but they are still Human Beings, no matter how they have to act to make the best, in their view, of the surroundings they are left.

And yes, I understand they have a choice, and they they are entitled to exercise that choice, but Rental is demeaning, derogatory and undeserving they deserve better for making an old man happy in his latter years.

I was serious when I said I didn't know what a plonker was. I assumed it was some derogatory comment about men who spend a fair portion of their time in bars while moaning to their limited group of friends about life in general. I DID check out "Del'Boy Trotter in Only Fools & Horses" on Wickie and you tube, but it didn't give an answer. Del'Boy Trotter in Only Fools & Horses looks like it was a good show. We don't get much British humour on Canadian tv. It's mostly US crap that I can't be bothered watching. The fact is that I seldom watch tv at all, and even then it's mostly just the few sports that I follow.

I also meant what I said about "rentals". I am too old for a commited relationship, but I still very much enjoy the company of women. I'm willing to help out their financial situation in return for some company for a night, a day, a week or several months. Nobody has the illusion that it is more than that. That doesn't mean that both of us are not enjoying ourselves. It's far better than some marriage that one or both partners are having a hard time with.

I know you were serious about the term plonker, although it can be used in a derogatory manner, Del'boy uses it in a much more casual, affectionate prose, I also seldom watch TV, but if it is on, I will generally watch to the end, it has very little to do with bar stool Daddys bemoaning western women, although Del has had little luck until his latter years.

Ian, trust me, Rental is seriously demeaning, even though as you state both parties are aware of the contract, the screaming and the whooping are purely down to getting the best tip, but they are still Human Beings, no matter how they have to act to make the best, in their view, of the surroundings they are left.

And yes, I understand they have a choice, and they they are entitled to exercise that choice, but Rental is demeaning, derogatory and undeserving they deserve better for making an old man happy in his latter years.

I've known a particular bargirl for over 10 years. She has been working the p4p scene in Bangkok for longer than that however.

Anyway one night I got a call from her at around 3am...she had split from her long term American bf and was sat drunk outside the Nana hotel.

I zipped round there on a bike and had to carry her into my hotel. She was in a dreadful state, something few of her customers will ever have seen.

She was gone in the morning by the time I woke. Out of sheer embarrassment.

No, I don't hold with the idea that paying for sex is ok and that women use this as a tool in life.

They do it from desperation mostly...sure sometimes a few get lucky and find love...but that's not the case for most.

actually it is derogatory and seems to show that you view women as a commodity and not as human beings replete with feelings and lives. But i think you have already made that clear from your many previous posts.

And women don't use men for their own pleasure and source of income? I beg to differ.

What you and Mossy are suggesting is that single people should refrain from having sex unless in a committed relationship. That is a bit unrealistic. There used to be an old term for women who slept around with any guy she found appealing. They were called "sluts". Now THAT is a derogatory term. Why should only men be allowed to have sex with anyone they found appealing and it was supposedly alright when the same wasn't true for a woman?

Show me a man who hasn't told lies to get a woman into bed and maybe then I MIGHT listen to your side of the story. Does that make all men who do so, creeps? If it does then about 90% of men are creeps. Show me a woman who hasn't manipulated men for any one of a thousand reasons and I MIGHT believe you. My experiences with people over the past 60 years of studying humans has taught me there are no hard and fast rules for everyone.

I could say that both my ex-wives were rentals. I paid for everything and shared in raising our kids until they both decided to go their own way. I've got no regrets. Just because I don't want to be trapped again does not make me bad. I give more than I receive and if that isn't good enough then that's too bad. I don't lie, cheat or steal, and I don't go after someone else's woman. I don't give false promises that I don't have any intention of keeping. If that's not good enough then the women are free to go anywhere they please... and will have my blessing on a better life for themselves. The fact is that I've never burnt my bridges and I'm still friends with my ex wives and my ex girl friends. I'm happy for the ones who have moved on to a better relationship with someone else.

I have three Thai lady friends who I share company with. Each woman is different and has separate needs and wants. None of us are in any illusion that our relationship is going to be long term. But, for the time we spend together, everyone is happy. I'm quite happy helping them out financially because they need the money more than me. I like each one of them for different reasons, but I would not want to be married or in a committed, long term relationship with any of them. And, I'm quite certain they feel the same about me. I've DEFINITELY got a best before date stamped on my body. I would not want some poor women in the prime of her life to be tied to some old fart who can no longer function as a man.

No I am suggesting that you are using derogatory language and that it and your many other posts including the above, imply that you view women as commodities. It implies nothing about what some nameless person thinks or does. Please do not presume to put words in my mouth or begin to think that you know what i think, thanks.

They reckon that if a virgin walks under the Liver Building in Liverpool the Liver Birds will take off and fly away.

Would nave to be a tourist, though, wouldn't it?

No I am suggesting that you are using derogatory language and that it and your many other posts including the above, imply that you view women as commodities. It implies nothing about what some nameless person thinks or does. Please do not presume to put words in my mouth or begin to think that you know what i think, thanks.

You have made a LOT of false assumptions about me as well, sbk. I've even been suspended for it. But, I don't call you on it. I've never treated women as a commodity other than going along with what they chose as a profession. I always let the women make the first move.

I'm an old fashioned guy who tried to follow the "rules" that just about all women said they wanted: As a married man I was faithful and didn't flirt with other women, I wasn't unpleasant to look at, I was virile, healthy, physically strong and athletic, I didn't smoke or drink to excess, I had a steady income and came home every night. I helped with the housework and did all the cooking and yard work. I took the family on vacations that they wanted and I cut back on my own expenses. I like to dance and we went to the theatre. I took my wives where THEY said they wanted to go in the evening. I bought both my wives the homes that THEY wanted but were not that practical. That pretty much covers the list that most women say they want in a man... but somehow it wasn't enough. And, surprisingly, I'm neither bitter nor upset about it. I can always see the bright side to any situation. That seems to bother some people.

I really haven't changed that much except I'm a LOT wiser.

What you and Mossy are suggesting is that single people should refrain from having sex unless in a committed relationship.

Where did I suggest that? I said 'Rental', was demeaning, I never said to refrain from casual sex. Paid for, or not, whichever the case may be.

No I am suggesting that you are using derogatory language and that it and your many other posts including the above, imply that you view women as commodities. It implies nothing about what some nameless person thinks or does. Please do not presume to put words in my mouth or begin to think that you know what i think, thanks.

You have made a LOT of false assumptions about me as well, sbk. I've even been suspended for it. But, I don't call you on it. I've never treated women as a commodity other than

Describing them as a 'rental'...

No I am suggesting that you are using derogatory language and that it and your many other posts including the above, imply that you view women as commodities. It implies nothing about what some nameless person thinks or does. Please do not presume to put words in my mouth or begin to think that you know what i think, thanks.

You have made a LOT of false assumptions about me as well, sbk. I've even been suspended for it. But, I don't call you on it. I've never treated women as a commodity other than

Describing them as a 'rental'...

I guess we just disagree in the term "rental". I'm a rental husband to the women I take care of. Some people might call me a "sugar daddy" but it's the same thing. I don't find that demeaning. I take care of things I rent... including my hotel room or anything I've rented in the past. I understand that people might get upset that men might treat women like a commodity, but in a good business arrangement everyone gets what they are looking for. That doesn't mean you don't like your business partners.

You could say that I have to pay for my friends... which would also be true. If I wasn't friendly, funny and helpful then I would be snubbed or ignored. But, everyone pays one way or another. If you are not an honest, pleasant person then your friends disappear. You actually have to WORK at staying friends with people. If you only come around when you want something then you get scratched off the "friends list". I've known a few of those people in the past and they are to be pitied..

The other Thai assimilated guy you speak of Eek....My bet is since he lived in Thailand since 18 it is as you said....He thinks or *wishes* he was Thai

His claimed distaste for western women may just be a show....Showing how Thai he is or is trying to be? unless of course he had a really bad experience & now blames a whole race? But both of those reasons are equally dumb

Hey flying. Thing is though, if he had truly assimilated himself, he would probably happily ogle the attractive western women. Thai guys, regardless of if they are interested in a relationship or not, ARE interested in western women..if if just to "try" one. An attractive woman, regardless of nationality, is an attractive woman. Of course, there are individual preferences, "asiafiles" (nasty term, but there you go), etc. However, in my experience, Thai men are very much attracted to western girls.

--

Anyway, I know a LOT of farang expat women here, and im wondering where the fat disgusting etc etc ones are..because they are stunning ..not to mention well dressed, articulate, and happy.

--

And..also, an attractive interesting man, will, usually, get the equivalent in return, or at least access to it. If a man has the personality of a door stopper, the age of a grandfather, and the body of a beached whale...does he honestly think his match is a 20 something, intelligent, interesting, good looking, slim, sexy girl...? Hmm....

...im wondering where the fat disgusting etc etc ones are..

I've seen them in the imaginations of some of our fellow posters.

SC

Anyway, to answer the question

'Why, Why, Why...'

"Forgive me, Delilah, I just couldn't take any more"

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/389070-if-youre-listening-to-music-now-whats-playing-4/page__view__findpost__p__4984624

SC

However, in my experience, Thai men are very much attracted to western girls.

Hi Eek,

While I agree completely with your post it is only fair to say that having seen your pic

I can understand your experience

PS: your "asiafile" term made me choke on my coffee thanks

Anyway, I know a LOT of farang expat women here, and im wondering where the fat disgusting etc etc ones are..because they are stunning ..not to mention well dressed, articulate, and happy.

--

And..also, an attractive interesting man, will, usually, get the equivalent in return, or at least access to it. If a man has the personality of a door stopper, the age of a grandfather, and the body of a beached whale...does he honestly think his match is a 20 something, intelligent, interesting, good looking, slim, sexy girl...? Hmm....

I agree with you there, eek. What I DO find amusing is the guys who are FAR past their prime, and wouldn't rate 2 on the scale of 1 to 10, will "evaluate" all the women they see. They should look in a mirror first. But, I also agree with Sbk who wrote somewhere that men have selective vision... they mostly notice the lovely locals and ignore all the plain ones. I don't think there's any greater percentage of beautiful Thai women than there are lovely Europen women. A walk along any beach in Portugal in the summer would certainly back that up.

But, it still doesn't concern me in the least. I have several very attractive girl friends and have no need or time to add any more to the list. Just the other day, one came all the way from Mae Sariang just to see me for the day and then went home on the night bus. I'm not sure I'd spend 8 hours sitting on a bus just to see someone for a day.

Kurt Vonnegut Jr. used to ponder on 'what women wanted' based on his own experience of marriage, divorce, and remarriage, and he concluded that he 'wasn't enough people'. There may be something to that in the sense that the nuclear model of families that most of us Westerners still have leaves all of us in many important ways without 'enough people' to give us what we need and want. In that sense, Thailand may be a welcome reminder of an older non-nuclear model- and if you are going to be seriously close to a Thai, you're going to need a place in your life for his friends and family, too.

When I look at what happens to many straight people in the US, it seems to me that they get married too young, without knowing themselves or each other well enough, and then get trapped with children, financial obligations, and the other 'institutions' of married family life- and then it hardly matters what they want, for a long, long time, at least for the sake of the children.

Gays can be more itinerant- both a curse and a blessing. At the moment I'm not too committed yet- but I am trying to choose partners who help with that. Out of the guys I have dated in the last few years, there are only two that I keep coming back to (and who keep coming back to me for the same reasons, I think)- because we definitely learn more about each other and ourselves when we're together. And those two are not the youngest or prettiest, either. If that's not the reason to have a longer term relationship with someone, then I don't know what that reason would be- and as far as I can tell, that's not a matter of whether we're men or women.

eek, please excuse my tardy reply to this.

You so dam_n sexy gurl......just let ole neverdie know if somebody says something negative towards you and I will rattle the chains of my mafia connections and have em dealt with

Why? ...Revenge, disappointment, resentment, bitterness, feelings of being disenfranchised, too much alcohol.

In Thailand Western men can have a good looking woman by simply providing: financial recourse, assistance, support, call it what you like. In the West this is not enough.

Men can make derogatory comments here because there are plenty of like minded people who will respond. It is also some type of payback in their minds .

"You western woman might not have been interested in me back in my home country but look at me now. I'm a success with women. I was the same guy back there as I am now.

You (all western women as a whole) have missed out on me. I hope you are single forever. Plus you are fat and ugly and dress poorly".

eek, please excuse my tardy reply to this.

You so dam_n sexy gurl......just let ole neverdie know if somebody says something negative towards you and I will rattle the chains of my mafia connections and have em dealt with

Who said you were allowed back in this inner sanctum, Neverdie?

Just joking, nice to see you back. How was your sailing trip?

eek, please excuse my tardy reply to this.

You so dam_n sexy gurl......just let ole neverdie know if somebody says something negative towards you and I will rattle the chains of my mafia connections and have em dealt with

Who said you were allowed back in this inner sanctum, Neverdie?

Just joking, nice to see you back. How was your sailing trip?

I'm a tad worried about neverdie...his facial features appear frozen.....a case of too much botox....?