UK pensions

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

To be fair, why not?

 

There is an argument that says ALL working people should contribute to NI. I see nothing wrong in that. You receive a salary, you pay tax and NICs.

 

Equally, I see nothing wrong in having an age cap - whether that should be increased to, say 70/75, is open to debate.

 

Another angle is say no further deductions will be payable once you have contributed for e.g. 50 years.....

 

The problem with that is that after the required number of years of contribution your pension will still be equal to that of a person who had never paid NI in their life but were given pension credits.

 

I worked for 50 years with some periods of no job but never claimed anything in the way of benefits. During my time NI contributions were for 44 years. It was then reduced and increased yet again.

 

A different government can change things any time they want.

 

 

1 hour ago, chris2004 said:

 

 

[billd766]

2 hours ago, chris2004 said:

They had 40+ years to prepare for retirement. Surely most people would have other financial plans rather than rely on a known low state pension.

 

I have to disagree with you.

 

quote from you  

 

"Surely most people would have other financial plans rather than rely on a known low state pension."

 

My parents and their generation and probably many of my generation would have had no idea about a private pension.

 

If the government had ring fenced the NI contributions back in the late 1940s and invested the money there wouldn't be this problem.

 

It is totally impossible to plan 40 years ahead.

 

Just to give you an example.

 

Did you plan in 2000 for the finacial crisis in 2005, world trade slump in 2008, Brexit in 2016.

 

Banks in the UK collapsing and being rescued by the government.

 

Did you plan for the cost of Iraq 2 war.

 

How about Gordon Brown selling the UK gold reserves at a low price.

 

How about the price of oil slumping to less than $40 a barrel from over $100 and then rising again.

 

Trump being made POTUS and screwing up the relationship of more allies than enemies.

 

Did you plan for the exchange rate variations between the GBP, USD, Euro or the THB.

 

Nobody can see 40 years into the future.

 

At best you can make some guesses and be right some of the time.

 

In 2000 nobody had any idea that in 2016 Brexit would happen. Certainly up to May and June 2016 the UK government thought that the UK would vote against Brexit but they were wrong.

Edited June 21, 2018 by billd766
added extra text

[DILLIGAD]

 

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[denby45]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

I have to disagree with you.

 

quote from you  

 

"Surely most people would have other financial plans rather than rely on a known low state pension."

 

My parents and their generation and probably many of my generation would have had no idea about a private pension.

 

If the government had ring fenced the NI contributions back in the late 1940s and invested the money there wouldn't be this problem.

 

It is totally impossible to plan 40 years ahead.

 

Just to give you an example.

 

Did you plan in 2000 for the finacial crisis in 2005, world trade slump in 2008, Brexit in 2016.

 

Banks in the UK collapsing and being rescued by the government.

 

Did you plan for the cost of Iraq 2 war.

 

How about Gordon Brown selling the UK gold reserves at a low price.

 

How about the price of oil slumping to less than $40 a barrel from over $100 and then rising again.

 

Trump being made POTUS and screwing up the relationship of more allies than enemies.

 

Did you plan for the exchange rate variations between the GBP, USD, Euro or the THB.

 

Nobody can see 40 years into the future.

 

At best you can make some guesses and be right some of the time.

 

In 2000 nobody had any idea that in 2016 Brexit would happen. Certainly up to May and June 2016 the UK government thought that the UK would vote against Brexit but they were wrong.

"It is impossible to plan 40 years ahead"

I did and I know many others did too by taking out a couple of personal pension plans. Not that my plans have been in any way a big success. Now I did predict almost 40 years ago that State Pension was never going to be enough but of course I could not predict how well the plans would fair, and I suppose it lends credence, in a way to your statement. However every little helps and will bolster my State Pension somewhat bringing it close to what I would require to maintain my rock star lifestyle. 555555

 

Den

[nontabury]

5 hours ago, chris2004 said:

They had 40+ years to prepare for retirement. Surely most people would have other financial plans rather than rely on a known low state pension.

True, but unfortunately many are not fortunate to earn sufficient to pay into a pension scheme, while at the same time bringing up a family.

In the area that I live, most of the vacancies are advertising a rate of £7.85 per hour. This equates to £314 a week before deductions. And that is for those lucky enough to find a job with 40hrs, as most are offering only 24hrs a week,bringing in £188 a week. Of course there is one solution to this problem, restrict the production of children to only those who can afford them. Unfortunately, where in the future will the low payed workers come from.

 

[simoh1490]

5 hours ago, chris2004 said:

They had 40+ years to prepare for retirement. Surely most people would have other financial plans rather than rely on a known low state pension.

I retired in 2005 with a large amount of cash and two pensions due in future years, including the state pension, I never thought for one minute that I would ever need or want the state pension. But three years later the financial crisis came along and interest rates went to almost zero and they stayed there for the next ten years, thank god I had those pensions in my future (2013) because if I hadn't I could easily be in dire straights. I was very lucky I had a lot of cash to see me through although I'm almost certainly an exception in this respect. Many of my peers will have had a rough ride, many of them will have seen their retirement plans dashed, many of them will have gone cap in hand to mother England, all of which is more than very sad. The best laid plans of mice and men. 

[nong38]

Ester Ranzten and the Daily Express have started one of those petitions to put before Parliament, you know 100,000 to sign up before its considered, but, go have a look its in the express today. She wants someone to take care of the "elderly" currently no one is looking after them, if she can get someone installed, I know its a way down the road, but, if she could then maybe it would be another avenue to air our frozen pensions bring it to centre stage.

[evadgib]

I'm considering starting one on this board asking if you can occasionally post a link..

[nong38]

17 minutes ago, evadgib said:

I'm considering starting one on this board asking if you can occasionally post a link..

If I knew how I would, my computer skills are basic.

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, nong38 said:

If I knew how I would, my computer skills are basic.

Looks like my edit failed. Here's the link and smiley that didn't reach my previous post ?

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/977463/dame-esther-rantzen-minister-for-older-people-parliament-petition

[sandyf]

On 6/21/2018 at 9:29 AM, dick dasterdly said:

Surely that's the point.  If they're receiving a state pension, they've reached that age?

 

Or am I missing the point entirely?

Your point is perfectly valid.

All working people are required to pay NIC up until state retirement age. When I reached 60 I was no longer required to pay NIC, it was an automatic credit, had I been working I would have still had to pay.

When you reach state pension age you are no longer required to pay but it is up to the individual to ensure the employer is not making the deductions.

Government is desperate for soft targets so anything is possible.

As far as NIC is concerned 50 years was not possible, max was just short of 50. I have 49 years and one incomplete year, the time between April and my 65th birthday in August. Obviously change when the retirement age rises.

[ianh68]

For anyone interested https://www.facebook.com/events/2096907560557100/

[ianh68]

Just now, ianh68 said:

For anyone interested https://www.facebook.com/events/2096907560557100/

"Campaigning Against Frozen Pensions" online discussion with a Director from International Consortium of British Pensioners.

[denby45]

Not sure if this has been posted before:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/653374/QR_2017_report_Oct_2017.pdf

 

Firstly I was amazed by the pie in the sky assumptions made in the report.

Secondly even with these assumptions you can see a very revealing graph on page 11.

 

Den

[evadgib]

Of interest to veterans:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/britain-leads-first-ever-european-conference-on-veterans-mental-health

[NoshowJones]

On 6/21/2018 at 9:23 AM, dick dasterdly said:

Because they are no longer entitled to any other benefits than they are already receiving?  e.g. If they lose their job, they're not going to be eligible for 'job seekers' allowance' - or whatever it's called now?

I have always known it and referred to it as unemployment benefit.

[sandyf]

On 6/21/2018 at 9:23 AM, dick dasterdly said:

Because they are no longer entitled to any other benefits than they are already receiving?  e.g. If they lose their job, they're not going to be eligible for 'job seekers' allowance' - or whatever it's called now?

Quite. Not in reference to your point but it should be remembered that even if you working, 'job seekers allowance' is not a done deal and is related to NICs.

Many moons ago I was made redundant and applied the JSA and it was refused on the grounds that I had not made full Class 1 contributions in the previous 2 years, at that point in time I had made about 39 years contributions. They told me to go and speak to Social Security but I went self employed instead.

Years later when the HMRC started publishing your NI history, it showed that I was fully paid up for the years concerned.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Quite. Not in reference to your point but it should be remembered that even if you working, 'job seekers allowance' is not a done deal and is related to NICs.

Many moons ago I was made redundant and applied the JSA and it was refused on the grounds that I had not made full Class 1 contributions in the previous 2 years, at that point in time I had made about 39 years contributions. They told me to go and speak to Social Security but I went self employed instead.

Years later when the HMRC started publishing your NI history, it showed that I was fully paid up for the years concerned.

The office concerned clearly screwed up badly....

 

Like you, I was made redundant many moons ago but received JSA even though I'd been in a company pension, and therefore paying the lower NI rate, for many years.

Edited June 30, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

The office concerned clearly screwed up badly....

 

Like you, I was made redundant many moons ago but received JSA even though I'd been in a company pension, and therefore paying the lower NI rate, for many years.

I don't think that is quite right. It is my understanding that in a company pension you would be contracted out and that the full Class 1 would still be paid. It would be the NIC component for additional pension that would be reduced, not the component for benefits. I think there is some confusion over the reduction in NIC under contracting out and the old 'reduced stamp' for a spouse.

Problem is there is not a lot that can be done. Unlike income tax, there is no control mechanism for checking and dealing with NIC payments.

 

A friend of mine took early retirement in his early 50's, in the days when it was 44 years, and started to make voluntary contributions under Class 3. A couple of years down the line they reduced the requirement to 30 years so he wrote and asked for a refund. Not difficult to guess the response.

[LongTimeLurker]

On 6/29/2018 at 8:11 PM, possum1931 said:

On 6/21/2018 at 7:23 AM, dick dasterdly said:

Because they are no longer entitled to any other benefits than they are already receiving?  e.g. If they lose their job, they're not going to be eligible for 'job seekers' allowance' - or whatever it's called now?

I have always known it and referred to it as unemployment benefit.

Unemployment Benefit was an entitlement for those that have been employed and paid NI contributions who then lost their jobs. It was paid for 12 months.

 

Supplementary Benefit was a means tested payment for those that did not qualify for Unemployment Benefit or who had been unemployed for more than 12 months and so lost entitlement to UB.

 

Now there's a whole host of different benefits

 

Job seekers allowance

Working tax credit

Income support

Universal credit

Working tax credit

Edited July 5, 2018 by LongTimeLurker

[flashgordon1959]

So where do you think the money is Gona come from to save it up .out of the sky .Coss not one government yet has got the balls to give people a decent pension .. the people in the UK are made to work till they drop before retiring .and the people won't see any pension money cos they will be dead.so there it's all shit man

They had 40+ years to prepare for retirement. Surely most people would have other financial plans rather than rely on a known low state pension.

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[evadgib]

Two links of interest from HMG:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-veterans-gateway-records-over-10000-enquiries-as-it-celebrates-its-first-year-in-service

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-nhs-app-will-make-it-quicker-and-easier-to-access-health-services

 

[ubonjoe]

A off topic inflammatory post has been removed. A repeat of it will result in a formal warning.

[BritManToo]

On 6/21/2018 at 10:57 AM, chris2004 said:

They had 40+ years to prepare for retirement. Surely most people would have other financial plans rather than rely on a known low state pension.

Hard to plan for a future when the rules keep changing.

In the 1990s, they changed the rules so a divorcing wife could claim half your pension (that's 25 years of my planning down the tubes).

Then it was 44 years NI, changed to 30 years NI, changed to 35 years NI.

Then the pension age changed from 65 to 67.

Then you could cash your pension in at 50, then it was moved to 55.

Then all the company 'final salary' pensions closed.

New pension = 4.75/per NIC year Vs Old pension worth whatever they say.

(I need to top up another 5 years under new pension, to add to my 34 years old pension, quote yesterday)

 

Not to mention the UK divorce rape lottery that can set all your assets to ZERO at any time.

The only way you can plan for that is to always live alone (not much fun IMHO).

Edited July 6, 2018 by BritManToo

[DILLIGAD]

Hard to plan for a future when the rules keep changing. In the 1990s, they changed the rules so a divorcing wife could claim half your pension (that's 25 years of my planning down the tubes).

Then it was 44 years NI, changed to 30 years NI, changed to 35 years NI.

Then the pension age changed from 65 to 67.

Then you could cash your pension in at 50, then it was moved to 55.

Then all the company 'final salary' pensions closed.

 

Very true and all the time knowing we get the smallest pensions in the ‘United States of Europe’

 

 

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[dick dasterdly]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Hard to plan for a future when the rules keep changing.

In the 1990s, they changed the rules so a divorcing wife could claim half your pension (that's 25 years of my planning down the tubes).

Then it was 44 years NI, changed to 30 years NI, changed to 35 years NI.

Then the pension age changed from 65 to 67.

Then you could cash your pension in at 50, then it was moved to 55.

Then all the company 'final salary' pensions closed.

New pension = 4.75/per NIC year Vs Old pension worth whatever they say.

 

Not to mention the UK divorce rape lottery that can set all your assets to ZERO at any time.

The only way you can plan for that is to always live alone (not much fun IMHO).

Agree with much of this, but take exception to:-

 

"In the 1990s, they changed the rules so a divorcing wife could claim half your pension"

 

Depending on the circumstances (as always!), what's wrong with that?  And,

 

"Not to mention the UK divorce rape lottery that can set all your assets to ZERO at any time."

 

How did this happen?  I was married for 28 years (actually longer, as I'm only counting the years until we separated - shortly after we moved to Thailand....) and was entitled to exactly 50%.

 

We never had children, so perhaps this is the reason for the difference?

 

Entirely off topic - but sorry, I'm a bit tired of Western men exaggerating/lying.

[BritManToo]

14 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm a bit tired of Western men exaggerating/lying.

 

Would someone like to remove the post calling me a liar?

I don't believe it should be in a UK pension discussion thread.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by BritManToo

[dick dasterdly]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

 

Would someone like to remove the post calling me a liar?

I don't believe it should be in a UK pension discussion thread.

 

 

I said "I'm a bit tired of Western men exaggerating/lying." ..... and I think my post needs to 'stand' as a reminder of this.

 

Agree that it is off-topic, but it was your post (with which I mostly agreed) that caused me to point out the exaggeration/lie in your post.

 

 

[watcharacters]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Hard to plan for a future when the rules keep changing.

In the 1990s, they changed the rules so a divorcing wife could claim half your pension (that's 25 years of my planning down the tubes).

Then it was 44 years NI, changed to 30 years NI, changed to 35 years NI.

Then the pension age changed from 65 to 67.

Then you could cash your pension in at 50, then it was moved to 55.

Then all the company 'final salary' pensions closed.

New pension = 4.75/per NIC year Vs Old pension worth whatever they say.

(I need to top up another 5 years under new pension, to add to my 34 years old pension, quote yesterday)

 

Not to mention the UK divorce rape lottery that can set all your assets to ZERO at any time.

The only way you can plan for that is to always live alone (not much fun IMHO).

 

I feel for you BritMan.

 

Yes,  it's hard to accurately plan when the goal posts keep changing and change they do!

 

In my case, when I retired I  knew exactly the cost of everything and what was  available  to me.    I was also  firmly advised that nothing is etched in stone and everything  is subject to change and that's  what I anticipate each year.     The only thing I don't know for sure is how much more my health insurance will cost and what benefits will erode.   

 

In regards to planning as a Brit, I'd suggest overkill in planning  for self protection.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by watcharacters

[flashgordon1959]

Very good information pall.

Actually it will be transferred to a nominated UK bank account on the Friday of every 4th working week i.e the next 4th working week for April will be week 16 so the pension will be paid into a UK bank account on 20th April.
The next payment in May will be the Friday of week 20 or 18th of May and so on.
In November you will get 2 payments as week 44 is 2nd November and week 48 is 30th November and week 52 is 28 December but that may be paid earlier due to CHristmas.
If you pension is paid direct to a Thai bank it is normally in on the Tuesday following but sometimes the Monday, unless there is a Thai bank holiday.

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