Over 1 Million Thais Are Infected With Hiv/Aids

[EyesWideOpen]

From a 1996 AIDS article in the prestigious Wall Street Journal........A bit dated, but still an interesting outlook for the time period.....

..for most heterosexuals, the risk from a single act of sex was smaller than the risk of ever getting hit by lightning. In the U.S., the disease was, and remains, largely the scourge of gay men, intravenous drug users, their sex partners, and their newborn children.

[OldgitTom]

There would be more AIDS victims in Thailand w/out ex-PM Thaksin. He forced the West's drugs barons (rich rats) to reduce the price of AIDS drugs to the level affordfable by Thais. God bless him, but no, he wasn't Jesus Christ by any measure, but he was head & shoulders above the satanic devils who developed AIDS. That came from the West's research into bio-weapons. The West's drug multinationals have more interest in death & disease than cures - the former are far more profitable. They make buckets of money from selling drugs. Cures are bad for business. OGT

[ScubaBuddha]

There would be more AIDS victims in Thailand w/out ex-PM Thaksin. He forced the West's drugs barons (rich rats) to reduce the price of AIDS drugs to the level affordfable by Thais. God bless him, but no, he wasn't Jesus Christ by any measure, but he was head & shoulders above the satanic devils who developed AIDS. That came from the West's research into bio-weapons. The West's drug multinationals have more interest in death & disease than cures - the former are far more profitable. They make buckets of money from selling drugs. Cures are bad for business. OGT

Thank you. I love these kind of posts. lol

[patpongpat]

It would be good to know how many of these cases were involving IV drug users. I'm not saying most of them are down to drugs but I am aware that the % of a man getting it from penetrative sex with a women is quite small unless say they have it with them x times....sure i'm not the only 1 who has read this before. That said there does seem to be a lack of awareness. I also think the general way they think about transitioning to their next life after this sort of gives them a feeling of immunity, or perhaps it's just that they don't give a hoot.

You are not too far off the mark. increased infection rate is directly related to drug abuse in Thailand.

[ScubaBuddha]

I'm guessing here,..<snip>

I would think...,<snip>

I would bet ....<snip>

I would guess.......<snip>

Stat's are also probably somewhat distorted by the fact that one infected hooker could easily infect 10+ blokes in a month

Please stop guessing and thinking. Your "facts" are way off. Having sex with an HIV+ person does not automatically mean you will be infected. Not even close. The odds of getting infected through unprotected vaginal sex with a person infected with AIDS is 500 to 1. She would need to have sex with 5000 men a month. 166 a day.

seriously suggest you get your facts straight...for the third time in this thread (and 2 posts above yours) -

the prevalent subtype (subtype e) in thailand is NOT THE SAME AS THE prevalent subtype in the WEST (subtype b ). with subtype e, the odds are estimated at between 1 in 30 to 1 in 50 for HETEROsexual intercourse without barrier protection if having intercourse with an infected individual... estimated 80% of HIV cases in thailand are through heterosexual intercourse.

I have got my facts straight. The type-E transmission rate is a theory the cause of which has not been conclusively proven. Several reasons for the apparent higher transmission rate not specific to sub-type E have been put forth, including the IV drug use mentioned by patpongpat above.

http://aje.oxfordjou.../2/159.full.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9311895

Even using the 50-1 rate, corkmans theoretical HIV+ prostitute would still need to have unprotected sex with 16 customers everyday in order to infect 10 a month.

Edited March 18, 2012 by ScubaBuddha

[JMG]

Worrisome. So every 60th person affected

Worrisome. So every 60th person affected

In 2010 The Public Health Ministry reported there were 520,000 HIV/AIDS infected patients and now in 2012 the Ministry reports 1 million. The reality is that the number is probably double the reported 1 million because many HIV/AIDS infected individuals go undetected and unreported. So it's probably 1 in 30 not 1 in 60.

[patpongpat]

About the same number of HIV infected as in the U.S.A. which has about five times the population. Not good.

This article is wrong.

It's 1 million that HAVE BEEN infected since the beginning of the outbreak in 80s. Not currently have it. Half of those 1 million have already died.

As far as rates compared to the US, the CURRENT new infection rate is roughly the same as the US. Thailand is down to about 10,000 new infections per year, down from over 150,000 per year in the early 90s. The US has around 50,000 new infections per year, so the rate is about equal and will most likely be lower in a few more years.

No, the article is correct and if anything is an under reporting. Thailand has been under reporting for years with a disintegration of data collection starting circa 2008.

Last reliable figures from US Aids reported for 2007 based upon data from 2005-2006 was as follows;

Estimated Population Living with HIV/Aids 410,000–880,000 (end 2007)

Please read our WHO report here. It's on the WHO website under Thailand HIV.

There has been an absence of prevention programs for at least a decade, an influx of carriers from other countries, a sex industry that's expanded, and a drug abuse problem that's exploded. This is the result.

I don't participate in Thaivisa, because of its political content. However, in this area where I have an interest, I am obliged to set the record straight. It's been almost 6 years since reliable health data was gathered. There isn't one modeling exercise that doesn't show the number of the infected to be in excess of 1million. There are even more shocking results, but due to political sensitivities, public discussion is squashed. Note too that reporting in Thailand uses provincial domicile and not the place of work, i.e. sex worker from Chiang Rai working in Phuket is reported under Chiang Rai numbers, not Phuket provincial numbers. That's why the money doesn't get spent in Phuket province, even though the unofficial infection rate of sex trade workers is 30-50% in Phuket. Another aspect not discussed. Foreigners don't want to hear about. Local politicians don't want to hear about it. Foreign funders, are happy not to hear about it because it means aid project budgets can be slashed. And after this thread gets replaced by a somtam recipe or one on sinsod this discussion will be forgotten, while a few thousand more people are infected.

Edited March 18, 2012 by patpongpat

[oldthaihand99]

not true... 80% of hiv in thailand is heterosexually transmitted (compared to 10% in the US/west) ... the subtype (type e) much easier to transmit through hetero contact...

university of new south wales, aus puts subtype e at a 50 fold higher transmission rate chance than the US (subtype b )..

assuming you're having sex with infected individuals, chance is 1 in 30 to 1 in 50 or so with subtype e as opposed to 1 in 500 to 1 in 1000 with the subtype predominant in the US (subtype b )

i suggest you google something to the effect of "hiv transmission heterosexual thailand" to learn more.

According to Wikipedia there is a 1 in 2000 chance for a male having bareback vaginal sex with an HIV infected female to become infected

with the HIV virus. Anal intercourse is far more dangerous, by around 30 times, and even with a condom is a similar risk to bareback sex.

http://en.wikipedia....IV#Transmission

As regards the notion that the HIV-E strain dominant in Thailand is much more potent or far easier to catch than the HIV-B strain dominant

in America, the following opinions did not support that theory:

"This study basically says that they should look for other reasons why strain E is spreading so fast in South East Asia."

http://jvi.asm.org/c.../71/10/8001.pdf

"I think the high rate of hetero infection in Thailand is simply due to the fact it is a more promiscuous society. The sex industry is so pervasive, there is simply more extramarital activity occuring. It remains to be proven that Subtype E is any more invasive. The fact that it has not become more prevalent in the West after many years contradicts the theory.

"Seems like a reach to me. Have they accounted for how huge the sex trade is in Thailand, needle use in Thailand. This is just a thought, but in the beginning, aids was thought of as a homosexual disease. Segregation between the orientations kept the spread to homosexuals for a long time. Would it not be hard to believe that hiv had its root in heterosexual sex in Thailand and that segregation again slows the transmission to the homosexual population, which could account for the 80% prevalence in heterorsexuals. I don't know, I just don't see that statistic as proof that E type is more transmissionable then B type"

"I figure that if there is any difference in reported HIV transmission route here in Thailand is probably more likely down to people not answering truthfully questions on how they got the virus. Can't Imagine that many Thais admitting to anal sex, gay sex or injecting drug use. Besides how would it account for the fact that HIV cases in Thailand are 70%+ males? Especially when it's far easier for women to catch than men.

"He rambles about how much easier subtype E is to acquire compared to other clades. If that was the case, it would have become dominant worldwide a long time ago! It doesn't make sense. The reason HIV is predominantly heterosexual in Thailand is same as why HIV is heterosexual in Africa. Rampant prostitution with low condom usage. Why look for complex answers when you have an obvious one? This guy may be a guru, but he doesn't sound anything like an HIV expert to me.

"Female to male transmission occurs more readily if the man is uncircumcized". In Thailand only 13% are circumcised, most of these Muslims. In the USA and Canada 70 and 30 percent respectively are reported as being circumcised.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision

Edited March 18, 2012 by OTHchalkwow

[KeyserSoze01]

And the sex tourists will still keep coming for the bargirls.

Yea but they not get or bring AIDS because it's not written

Not likely that the TAT would advertise the fact that Thailand is the HIV/AIDS capital of SEA. Wouldn't want to hurt the tourist numbers, now would they.

[pauljones]

There is a hidden problem in this, this HIV virus is adapting to its human host and becoming less aggressive, put simply where at one time infection was a one year death sentence, now it is more like 5 to 10 years. Putting this in perspective it means a much longer period of support and medication for those infected.

HIV was never a one year death sentence... in the beginning we had no idea what it was and by the time it progressed to full blown aids, yes, without the meds we have today a year or two was maybe a good life expectancy...but by the time that happened, they had already been infected for many years.

people are living longer simply because of meds and earlier detection. and it's not 5 or 10 years, we're talking 45+ (ie someone at 20 getting hiv and starting meds and taking them properly can expect to live a full life)

I have a friend taking HIV treatments. Proper care is not that expensive.

Red Cross blood tests, doctor visits(Bumrungrad) + pills cost 150THB a day and getting cheaper with Generic drugs becoming available.

[ScubaBuddha]

, I am obliged to set the record straight. ... the unofficial infection rate of sex trade workers is 30-50% in Phuket.

Um...you call that setting the record straight do you?

[DP25]

There would be more AIDS victims in Thailand w/out ex-PM Thaksin. He forced the West's drugs barons (rich rats) to reduce the price of AIDS drugs to the level affordfable by Thais. God bless him, but no, he wasn't Jesus Christ by any measure, but he was head & shoulders above the satanic devils who developed AIDS. That came from the West's research into bio-weapons. The West's drug multinationals have more interest in death & disease than cures - the former are far more profitable. They make buckets of money from selling drugs. Cures are bad for business. OGT

555 you got that completely backwards.

That was the COUP government that decided to break patents on HIV drugs so they could be cheaply made in Thailand. Thaksin's lobbying groups actually ATTACKED the Thai government for breaking patents in order to try to gain support in the US in his fight against the coup. Thaksin is and has always been firmly in the pocket of big business to the detriment of the people.

http://2bangkok.com/07-news07apr.html

Edited March 18, 2012 by DP25

[wellred]

I'd like to know how far away we think we are from a cure. I read something recently about some encouraging test results on HIV+ people who also had Hep C. After taking some drug 74% showed no signs of hep c.

[oldthaihand99]

"While unprotected sex is the major risk factor which accounts for as high as 84 percent, premature and unprotected sex among secondary school and vocational students is becoming more of a problem."

not sure, what they were trying to say, looks like a moral campaign than health concern

I suppose the article's point is that "unprotected" (i.e. bareback) sex is the leading cause of HIV in Thailand, so use a condom.

Not that condom's provide 100% "protection" re HIV, but rather "reduces the risk of HIV/AIDS transmission by approximately

85% relative to risk when unprotected". When condoms fail, break, leak, slip & slide off, it is the same as or similar to having

so-called "unprotected" or condomless intercourse.

http://en.wikipedia....m#Effectiveness

With Thailand having such a high rate of HIV among its general population and especially its sex workers, "partying without a hat"

is especially dangerous relative to a Western nation like, say, Canada or Germany. But there is still much those who partake can

do to make themselves safer:

1. Both parties recently STD tested, negative on all tests, sharing the results with each other

2. The guy does not finish inside the partner

3. One or both are fixed as far as making babies is concerned, or at least she's on the pill

4. Seeing a low mileage partner or prostitute, one with few (or no other) customers

5. Seeing a person who shows evidence that he/she does BBFS with few (if any others) besides you

6. Being circumcised, which may reduce risk for HIV by up to 70%, compared to condoms at about 85%

7. Don't partake with the drug addicted such as IDU

Edited March 18, 2012 by OTHchalkwow

[softgeorge]

I must say I am hardly suprised for a country who has built up the reputation as the largest brothel in world. Prostitution is a huge business in Thailand and even tho it is only a myth to authorities it generates huge foreign revenue. If you move in the bargirl scene then you are playing russian roullette with your life.

[49337]

no doubt the flourishing sex industry plays an important role in coming up the number. a sector that is so essential to the thai economy and yet quite so detrimental and destructive.

[cowslip]

I'm guessing here,..<snip>

I would think...,<snip>

I would bet ....<snip>

I would guess.......<snip>

Stat's are also probably somewhat distorted by the fact that one infected hooker could easily infect 10+ blokes in a month

Please stop guessing and thinking. Your "facts" are way off. Having sex with an HIV+ person does not automatically mean you will be infected. Not even close. The odds of getting infected through unprotected vaginal sex with a person infected with AIDS is 500 to 1. She would need to have sex with 5000 men a month. 166 a day.

seriously suggest you get your facts straight...for the third time in this thread (and 2 posts above yours) -

the prevalent subtype (subtype e) in thailand is NOT THE SAME AS THE prevalent subtype in the WEST (subtype b ). with subtype e, the odds are estimated at between 1 in 30 to 1 in 50 for HETEROsexual intercourse without barrier protection if having intercourse with an infected individual... estimated 80% of HIV cases in thailand are through heterosexual intercourse.

I have got my facts straight. The type-E transmission rate is a theory the cause of which has not been conclusively proven. Several reasons for the apparent higher transmission rate not specific to sub-type E have been put forth, including the IV drug use mentioned by patpongpat above.

http://aje.oxfordjou.../2/159.full.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9311895

Even using the 50-1 rate, corkmans theoretical HIV+ prostitute would still need to have unprotected sex with 16 customers everyday in order to infect 10 a month.

It is far easier for a man to infect a woman than vice-versa

[cowslip]

"Being circumcised, which may reduce risk for HIV by up to 70%, compared to condoms at about 85%" - this has been disputed recently.....

[anterian]

About 10 years ago I bought a copy of this book "The River: A Journey Back to the Source of HIV and AIDS" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1127661/

It is heavy reading but gives a fascinating description of the possible origins of AIDS (contentious) but also of how it spread worldwide.

[kerryk]

The province with the highest rate of AIDS is Chiang Rai, which would surprise most people. For the number of 1 million Thais with AIDS, I would really like to see a breakdown between men and women. I think the ratio would be shocking. There is also a false assumption that if a woman has AIDS, or the the man, that the ratio of risk of transmission is 50/50. That is simply not true. The woman is at far higher risk of getting AIDS from an infected man, than vice versa...

Wrong. The province of Rayong has the highest rates.

[DGS1244]

Figures.

My current and previous girlfriends had no clue about contraceptives and STDs.

When I first came here 20 years ago every girl insisted on condom use for fear of HIV. Now they all say they don't like condoms and don't want me to use one. And I'm not talking about hookers here, but girls you would consider educated and with an ability to think about the future.

The 20-25 age group in particular seem to have no fear of HIV at all.

Not sure where you spend your time but in Bangkok I have found that the girls are more concerned abut condoms than they used to be. Perhaps you are picking the wrong girl.

[kerryk]

no doubt the flourishing sex industry plays an important role in coming up the number. a sector that is so essential to the thai economy and yet quite so detrimental and destructive.

The sex industry is larger than the rice export industry says a thread running in the news forum currently. "Thailand's sex workers don't want to be rescued."

[theblether]

How many farang are reading this topic and still intend visiting super high risk sex workers?

Mental.....walk down the streets of Pattaya and you can be sure you are surrounded by HIV.

Scary.

[oops]

Wonder how many females?

me too: more than males...

I wouldn't agree that more females have HIV . Because girls in secondary school are less likely to be involved with sex as much as males are during their school years. You see males are conditioned to have sex with each other by their mentors and culture then boys by nature are most likely to experiment more with each other in greater numbers that's without factoring in peir pressure. So I would belive there is a higher number of males carry the HIV that the females.

[oops]

How many farang are reading this topic and still intend visiting super high risk sex workers?

Mental.....walk down the streets of Pattaya and you can be sure you are surrounded by HIV.

Scary.

Yeh, I have often said they should do the same thing in places like soi Bahkho and walking street as they do by the railroad tracks. Block of a section and test everyone caught for HIV and STDs if the have any that they need to tattoo it right on their forhead or the across that section of their body that seems to be the focal point " I HAVE HIV" or " I HAVE AN STD THAT IS CONTAGIOUS" or they should arrest them and make them wear something like a bracelet so that if they get near those areas of sex it either electricutes them or sets off a warning so that they can be picked up... and for those of you that say they will just take them off.....well they wouldn't be able to because that would also set off an alarm in which would put them in jail for removing it.

[theblether]

I understand also that young Thai men have a cultural attitude to homosexuality which differs from many other cultures. In effect bi-sexuality is far more prevalent, and that combined with the relatively rough attitude to hetrosexual sex results in far more women being exposed than in many other societies.

It's almost the diabolical master plan for HIV transmission.

To make it even worse, many idiot farang go bareback either through choice or drunken stupidity.

So here is a terrifying thought for, the majority of new HIV infections in the UK are from people who contracted it overseas.

You need to be more than careful out there.

[oops]

no doubt the flourishing sex industry plays an important role in coming up the number. a sector that is so essential to the thai economy and yet quite so detrimental and destructive.

The sex industry is larger than the rice export industry says a thread running in the news forum currently. "Thailand's sex workers don't want to be rescued."

Why would they...? it's an easy job and most of them do pick who they go with. I have never seen any girl being forced by the bar owner to go with someone they don't want to.

There are very few areas were the girls go home with more than one person in a week,obviously the prettier they are the higher the odds, but what i am saying is the women choose to be there

and being an ex bar owner, I know they come and go as they please. Most girls will take themselves off the market if they know they have something except the lone agents walking up and down the streets they have no moral obligation to the bar they work for... Not only that but It is my understanding too, that girls caught with HIV by the police are forced to work in locations only set up for Thai's like around the park in Bangkok. Those girls won't go with farrange because they are infected....';This is what I have been told" don't know how much truth there is to it.

[grantbkk]

While HIV and Aids are very much a hot topic any Thai Ministry would normally ignore factual data and prefer to pull nice and neat numbers out of thin air. This is just another one of those periodically required press releases that accompanies the obligatory request for additional funds for whatever crisis. The funds request is coincidentally another massive round number that will likely just be pocketed by corrupt officials under the guise of another Thai program to save and educate the poor girls and a couple of guys in Patpong.

"The Public Health Minister added that this year the National Health Security Office (NHSO) has set nearly 3 billion baht as a budget for HIV/AIDs care and treatment while planning to increase the budget to 3.5 billion baht for next year."

This is a standard and all to common way the different ministries justify their existence ahead of an emergency request for more cash to invest in Singapore or western real estate.

[oops]

I understand also that young Thai men have a cultural attitude to homosexuality which differs from many other cultures. In effect bi-sexuality is far more prevalent, and that combined with the relatively rough attitude to hetrosexual sex results in far more women being exposed than in many other societies.

It's almost the diabolical master plan for HIV transmission.

To make it even worse, many idiot farang go bareback either through choice or drunken stupidity.

So here is a terrifying thought for, the majority of new HIV infections in the UK are from people who contracted it overseas.

You need to be more than careful out there.

The older the male the less likely he will be wearing protection, because the sensitivity level dramatically decreases the older you get....meaning they can't feel anything through a rubber lining.

[khaowong1]

I was at a orphange for children born with HIV, dropped off by parents at the door, or have passed away.

around 100 children, thru no fault of their own

was very sad... no government funding, there is a temple next door..

the head-monk build a super high wall to block them out.... not his problem, they're all bad people.

very say...

Clearly no money being donated to the temple, they must be spending the donations on looking after the kids.

The amount of "bun" and attention you get from the monks is directly related to how much you donate to them.

Thailand has developed a commercial strain of Buddhism. Want a blessing for your new house/business? Then cough up the cash and the local wat will send a few monks around. Feel you have been a bad person in this life? Then give the head monk a few rai of land and all will be fixed.

Check out the difference with Cambodia, where the temples are used as schools, providing education for the kids.

The same used to be in Thailand. The temples were used as schools, but what I think happened was, someone in govt. got the notion that they were missing out on some easy money by letting the kids go to a temple for education. Hard to get bribes out of monks. And the monks were teaching for free, man, can't have that. And the monks were actually teaching the kids some morale lessons. Man, can't have that.