Proposed Uk Settlement Visa Changes

[Seekingasylum]

For those of you who are Brits and may be challenged by these new rules, and who may not also hold an Irish passport, it is worthwhile to consider that you can acquire EEA rights by becoming economically active in another EEA state. Your spouse may accompany you on a family permit and once you have completed 6 months then you may return to the UK for resettlement with your wife on the basis you and your wife have acquired EEA status. She will not need a visa and in effect requires no further documentation beyond evidence you are married, she has been granted admission to reside with you in the EEA state and that you were economically active although the obtaining of a residence card in the EEA state would obviate the latter.Nevrtheless, for ease of travel the spouse should consider applying for a EEA family permit when gaining entry into the UK accompanied by you.

By taking this route you will not need to meet any minimum wage requirement nor would your spouse be compelled to pass any language test in order to qualify for her " no time limit " endorsement after 5 years residence.

Apologies if this has already been highlighted.

[Eff1n2ret]

For those of you who are Brits and may be challenged by these new rules, and who may not also hold an Irish passport, it is worthwhile to consider that you can acquire EEA rights by becoming economically active in another EEA state.

Indeed worth mentioning, and the Guidance to ECOs goes as as far as to say this:-

"It does not matter if the only reason the British national went to another Member State was to exercise an economic Treaty right was so that he / she could come back to the UK with his / her family members under EC law."

I don't recall seeing anywhere a requirement for a minimum 6-month period in another EU state to qualify for admission to the UK on a Family Permit. I would have thought that once another state has accepted the spouse as a Family Member and issued the relevant bit of paper, the UK would be obliged also to issue a Family Permit - although in practice, getting through the other country's bureaucracy could take a few months anyway.

This route is only open, as you say, to the "economically active", i.e. workers and self-employed, not to pensioners. I wonder how many people in practice can grasp the nettle of giving up an income-stream in the UK, and maybe pension rights, in the hope of getting a job elsewhere in Europe during these troubled times.

[Seekingasylum]

For those of you who are Brits and may be challenged by these new rules, and who may not also hold an Irish passport, it is worthwhile to consider that you can acquire EEA rights by becoming economically active in another EEA state.

Indeed worth mentioning, and the Guidance to ECOs goes as as far as to say this:-

"It does not matter if the only reason the British national went to another Member State was to exercise an economic Treaty right was so that he / she could come back to the UK with his / her family members under EC law."

I don't recall seeing anywhere a requirement for a minimum 6-month period in another EU state to qualify for admission to the UK on a Family Permit. I would have thought that once another state has accepted the spouse as a Family Member and issued the relevant bit of paper, the UK would be obliged also to issue a Family Permit - although in practice, getting through the other country's bureaucracy could take a few months anyway.

This route is only open, as you say, to the "economically active", i.e. workers and self-employed, not to pensioners. I wonder how many people in practice can grasp the nettle of giving up an income-stream in the UK, and maybe pension rights, in the hope of getting a job elsewhere in Europe during these troubled times.

Yes, you are quite right, there is no time limit as such but in practice although ECO's guidance is unequivocal on the subject that still won't stop them from viewing an application as doubtful if they have a mind to. If they think the marriage is one of convenience it might delay matters particularly if the application was bunged in say two weeks after the parties' arrival in the member state. However, 6 months would be a reasonable time frame and may well serve to expedite the family permit issue.

Despite the southern member states' woes, Germany, Benelux countries and the Scandanavian countries still offer opportunities and all operate work agencies where folk can secure employment without too much faffing around. I suppose the demographic in Thailand I had in mind were the younger chaps jaded with their Thai lifestyles who want to return to the UK with their wives but who have no employment and savings are minimal.

[marksm]

just out of interest are they going to change the length of time to become a British citizen from 3 years too a longer period ?

[ralphsilver]

Will any of these proposed changes effect child vaf4 applications ?

[tomcreeduk]

Just a question. I have been following this conversation. I am submitting my wife's application on the 19th of June whilst we are both in Bangkok. I am submitting it on this date as this is the date we have planned for, for over 6 months now and I'm sure the ECO won't review our application before the proposed changes come into force. Will they review the application with the new changes in mind or review it knowing it was submitted in advance of the 9th of July. Showing how much I earn isn't the problem it's her confidence in achieving higher than A1 in English speaking. She has passed the test but found it hard to A1 level even tho she speaks it very well just nerves got the better of her I feel.

What's your views guys. Thanks

[VisasPlus]

Just a question. I have been following this conversation. I am submitting my wife's application on the 19th of June whilst we are both in Bangkok. I am submitting it on this date as this is the date we have planned for, for over 6 months now and I'm sure the ECO won't review our application before the proposed changes come into force. Will they review the application with the new changes in mind or review it knowing it was submitted in advance of the 9th of July. Showing how much I earn isn't the problem it's her confidence in achieving higher than A1 in English speaking. She has passed the test but found it hard to A1 level even tho she speaks it very well just nerves got the better of her I feel.

What's your views guys. Thanks

The application will be considered under the current rules if submitted before 9th July 2012.

The level required for English testing remains at A1 for visa applicants. The higher level will come in when your wife applies for FLR or ILR in the UK.

[7by7]

It seems my last warning was too subtle for some.

This topic has nothing to do with the EEA freedom of movement treaties which mean that Brits can study, work or retire in other EEA countries and nationals of other EEA countries can do the same in the UK.

If anyone wishes to discuss the rights and wrongs of these treaties and rights, as they see it, or even just repeat the ill informed and sometimes plain wrong propaganda broadcast by some papers; do it elsewhere, not in this thread.

The same goes for comments on asylum seekers.

Any more posts containing comments on those lines will be removed and the poster given a holiday.

A post making unsubstantiated accusations against an ethnic group has been removed.

Such racist posts are strictly against the rules: 7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

I will not have this important topic hijacked by ill informed, ignorant racist rants.

[7by7]

just out of interest are they going to change the length of time to become a British citizen from 3 years too a longer period ?

In theory, no. In practice, yes.

One of the qualifications for citizenship is that the applicant must have ILR. As the proposal is to increase the qualifying time for ILR to 5 years, this means that spouses and civil partners will not be able to apply until they have been in the UK for at least 5 years.

Will any of these proposed changes effect child vaf4 applications ?

Yes.

[ralphsilver]

In what way 7by7 same criteria as as adult settlement ? children do not have to pass life in the UK language test do they ? If the changes become law what happens to applications before law.

[7by7]

It's mainly the financial criteria. The more children you are applying for the higher this is.

See the statement of intent.

Assuming this becomes law, very likely, then they will apply to applications made on or after 9th July 2012; applications made on or before 8th July 2012 will be judged under the old rules.

[ralphsilver]

I am retired, but have savings over £120,000 and own my home mortgage free. The oly income I get is from my share portfolio. My wife has ILR settlement visa since 2009 she left her last job in May 2012. Her P60 for 2011 / 2012 shows net take home pay was £13,000 will we meet the financial requirements to apply for vaf4 for her two Thai children.

[7by7]

There will be various ways and various combinations of ways in which this financial requirement can be met.

See Appendix B (page 39) onward of the Statement of Intent linked to above.

[ralphsilver]

Once again 7by7 thank's if i have read it right £62.500 in savings you do not need to show any employment. Looks like we should be OK if this is correct.

[VisasPlus]

Once again 7by7 thank's if i have read it right £62.500 in savings you do not need to show any employment. Looks like we should be OK if this is correct.

Unles I'm wrong, and I often am, then the new requirements ( HC194) apply only to children of a parent with Limited Leave to Remain ( or holding an entry clearance, of course). Children of a parent with ILR will be dealt with as they are currently ( under Part 8 HC 395 ), requiring evidence of support and accommodation, and, of course, demonstrating sole responsibility.

[AngryParent]

I have no problem with the principle, but I do wonder where they got the figure from.

Currently there is no fixed figure, but the courts have ruled that it would be inappropriate for an immigrant family to have an income below the income support level for a British family of the same size, so it is likely that an application would be refused if their income was below this figure.

For a couple this is currently £111.45 per week; £5795.40 p.a.

In addition you also have to have, and pay for, adequate accommodation. http://www.rentindex.co.uk/ says that on 12/6/12 the average rent in England and Wales is £613.30; £7359.60 p.a.

Making a total of £13155.00 p.a.

As already said, there is much regional variation in the cost of living; especially housing costs, but I fail to see why the government feel that an extra £5.5 grand is needed!

You probably didn't see this MAC report, but this is the dumb report that has caused 18,000+ - it was done end of last year.

http://www.ukba.home...pdf?view=Binary

A complely sad day for us British citizens outside the UK and wanting to take our families home!

And for me I need well over 20,000.

Even though you don't like it, it seems that the free EU entry route is now the ONLY option for me.

Edited June 19, 2012 by 7by7
Obscenities removed.

[ralphsilver]

Just tried to get appointment at the VFS for between 1-8 July for completed online applications today, and guess what. No appointments available July 2012. Have three dates left in Jun.

So it looks like all trying to beat the deadline will be dissapointed if they wanted to do in July.

[ralphsilver]

Even tried the premium appointmant service at a cost of 1500 baht but July 2012 no appointments available this month.

Maybe they could open sunday's and charge £500 for appointment. lol

[tribalfusion001]

You can only book appointments at VFS one week in advance.

[ralphsilver]

Why is it showing available appointments then for Saturday 30/06/12 that is 11 days from now.

[tribalfusion001]

Maybe it's up to 14 days, not quite sure, but it won't show any dates for July, maybe check on Friday to see if July comes up. I've used the system 5 times, nothing sinister going on, but it will get busier with the deadline coming up.

[ralphsilver]

Thank's Tribal hope you are right.

[7by7]

I have no problem with the principle, but I do wonder where they got the figure from.

You probably didn't see this MAC report, but this is the dumb report that has caused 18,000+ - it was done end of last year.

http://www.ukba.home...pdf?view=Binary

Yes i did, but thank you pointing it out to me! The report followed on from the results of a public consultation; which was reported and linked to here with many reminders for members to take part and make their feelings known. Did you?

Even though you don't like it, it seems that the free EU entry route is now the ONLY option for me.

You seem to have a different recollection of our discussion on this matter to mine. I simply said that is not a realistic option for the majority.

Last word on that from me; you are not going to draw me into another of your pointless arguments.

[MaprangHolmes]

If a person where to get a settlement visa issued before the new rules come into force, then what rules would apply when you apply for ILR?

[dracos]

I have no problem with the principle, but I do wonder where they got the figure from.

Currently there is no fixed figure, but the courts have ruled that it would be inappropriate for an immigrant family to have an income below the income support level for a British family of the same size, so it is likely that an application would be refused if their income was below this figure.

For a couple this is currently £111.45 per week; £5795.40 p.a.

In addition you also have to have, and pay for, adequate accommodation. http://www.rentindex.co.uk/ says that on 12/6/12 the average rent in England and Wales is £613.30; £7359.60 p.a.

Making a total of £13155.00 p.a.

As already said, there is much regional variation in the cost of living; especially housing costs, but I fail to see why the government feel that an extra £5.5 grand is needed!

You probably didn't see this MAC report, but this is the dumb report that has caused 18,000+ - it was done end of last year.

http://www.ukba.home...pdf?view=Binary

A complely sad day for us British citizens outside the UK and wanting to take our families home!

And for me I need well over 20,000.

Even though you don't like it, it seems that the free EU entry route is now the ONLY option for me.

I also had some concerns regarding raising a family in Thailand and then relocating to the UK and how the new rules would impact this. It is not necessarily the case that you have to be apart for 6 months, there is an alternative provided in the new rules:

Paragraph 83 i & j

1. "Where the sponsor is returning to the UK with the applicant having lived and/or worked abroad, the same financial requirement will have to be met: a minimum gross annual income of £18,600 (or the relevant higher figure where a child or children are also being sponsored). There is no reason why those who have lived and/or worked abroad should get a better deal than sponsors residing, and paying tax, in the UK. However, there will be the flexibility at (j) for sponsors working overseas and returning to work in the UK which enables them some scope to do so without having to leave their partner overseas.
   

1. Where the sponsor has been working overseas and is returning to work in the UK, there will be scope for them to count a firm, verifiable job offer or signed contract of employment to start work within three months of their return at a salary at the level required to meet the financial requirement. They must also demonstrate that either they are in employment overseas at the required salary level at the point of application and have been so continuously for at least the previous six months or they have earned the required amount through salaried employment in the 12 months prior to the application."
   

So job offer from UK and having held a job paying the minimum amount in Thailand. This is probably achievable for the skilled professionals working here but not for those on pension or teaching jobs. Unfortunately they have specifically excluded any job offers for the applicant which seems a bit strange as surely it is better for them to show they can also support themselves as well as be supported by the sponsor.

Also with respect to the requirement for children, if they are your children and are entitled to UK citizenship through birth I am presuming that you are not sponsoring them as they have the right to enter the UK without a visa? In which case the minimum required income does not increase. It should increase for dependent children of the applicant which are not related to the sponsor through birth - is this correct or have I missed the point?

[raven0099]

This is ridiculous , i think everyone should write to thier local mp's and complain about this , thankfully i qualify in my current job but who knows how safe that is , im due to get married to my thai gf next month and will be looking at settlement visa early next year ,

Edited June 20, 2012 by 7by7
Off topic comments removed.

[7by7]

If a person where to get a settlement visa issued before the new rules come into force, then what rules would apply when you apply for ILR?

If I've read it right, anyone who applies for their initial entry clearance as a family member before 9th July will be dealt with under the old rules up to their receiving ILR.

See Appendix E of the statement.

[thecatman]

If a person where to get a settlement visa issued before the new rules come into force, then what rules would apply when you apply for ILR?

Good question,

My wife & I have been in the UK for a year now on settlement visa....under the proposed new rules her application would have failed, so we were lucky to have applied when we did, but what about our next steps??

Ultimately I'd like her to have a British passport.

[FuzzyDunlop]

Also with respect to the requirement for children, if they are your children and are entitled to UK citizenship through birth I am presuming that you are not sponsoring them as they have the right to enter the UK without a visa? In which case the minimum required income does not increase. It should increase for dependent children of the applicant which are not related to the sponsor through birth - is this correct or have I missed the point?

That was my understanding also. If your children are British citizens then the minimum income level of GBP 18,600 still applies. It is only if the children are not British citizens that the increased amounts apply.

I had been looking at returning to the UK with my wife and daughter. The only difficulty I see, from my point of view, is having the employment offer. It will be very difficult to be get a UK job offer whilst working in Thailand, unless you are being sent back by your company.

[toddmeister]

If a person where to get a settlement visa issued before the new rules come into force, then what rules would apply when you apply for ILR?

If I've read it right, anyone who applies for their initial entry clearance as a family member before 9th July will be dealt with under the old rules up to their receiving ILR.

See Appendix E of the statement.

When it comes to applying for ILR though, they would have to satisfy the new B1 requirement which comes into effect from Oct '13. My wife is already here on a spouse visa. She entered the UK in Nov last year and so will just fall short of the earliest possible date to apply for ILR under the current English requirement. She will have to apply under the Oct '13 B1 level as her visa expire's after that date. She will also have to complete the LITUK test

Edited June 20, 2012 by toddmeister