Let me get this right. If only 20% of the voters consider themselves Republicans and some 40% (including the Republicans) consider themselves as Conservatives, where is the remaining 12% coming from?

Well, if we were talking about Democrats and you asked where the additional 12% came from the answer would be obvious - they are counting pets and dead people.

That's a disgusting lie. The level of voter fraud is very, very low in the US. This sickening excuse is being used as a cynical ploy to disenfranchise poor and minority voters who are of course mostly democrats. The Fox News party is indeed anti-democrat and anti-democracy as well!

Let me get this right. If only 20% of the voters consider themselves Republicans and some 40% (including the Republicans) consider themselves as Conservatives, where is the remaining 12% coming from?

Well, if we were talking about Democrats and you asked where the additional 12% came from the answer would be obvious - they are counting pets and dead people.

That's a disgusting lie. The level of voter fraud is very, very low in the US. This sickening excuse is being used as a cynical ploy to disenfranchise poor and minority voters who are of course mostly democrats. The Fox News party is indeed anti-democrat and anti-democracy as well!

...and you are parroting Erik Holder's opinions.

Which one has been held in contempt of Congress lately...Fox News or Erik Holder?

Let me get this right. If only 20% of the voters consider themselves Republicans and some 40% (including the Republicans) consider themselves as Conservatives, where is the remaining 12% coming from?

Well, if we were talking about Democrats and you asked where the additional 12% came from the answer would be obvious - they are counting pets and dead people.

That's a disgusting lie. The level of voter fraud is very, very low in the US. This sickening excuse is being used as a cynical ploy to disenfranchise poor and minority voters who are of course mostly democrats. The Fox News party is indeed anti-democrat and anti-democracy as well!

The only disgusting lie here is that asking for photo ID before casting a vote is somehow "disenfranchising poor and minority voters".

I have a lot of European friends who - naturally - are aligned more politically with the Democrats than Republicans. But even they are dumbfounded by the Democrats' position on Voter ID. They think I'm lying to them when I tell them Dems oppose showing ID before voting. Of all the political issues in the country today, Voter ID is at the top of the Common Sense list. Duh, of course you have to show ID before voting.

If Democrats would invest half the time they spend registering dogs and dead people to vote towards getting free, state IDs to poor people and minorities, this wouldn't be an issue. But the issue isn't really about poor or minorities. It is about stuffing the ballot box.

Free IDs also wouldn't help the convicted felons who have lost their right to vote. Convicted felons overwhelmingly support soft-on-crime, anti-gun ownership Democrats. IDs would prevent them from casting their votes, hence hurting Democrats. Can't have that now, can we?

It's a war on poor people. You aren't fooling anyone.

It's a war on poor people. You aren't fooling anyone.

Your war is against honest, transparent voting. You aren't fooling anyone.

It's a war on poor people. You aren't fooling anyone.

Your war is against honest, transparent voting. You aren't fooling anyone.

You don't get it. Maybe you need to show ID at other places. Places that aren't related to your CIVIL RIGHTS. All citizens are eligible to vote. If you register and show up, you should be able to vote. You know the vast majority of YES CITIZENS who don't have ID are poor and minority people who will mostly vote against your right wing agenda.

All citizens are eligible to vote. If you register and show up, you should be able to vote.

When you register, show up and prove who you are citizens have to right to vote. Dead people, illegal aliens, felons and those who have already voted do not.

All citizens are eligible to vote. If you register and show up, you should be able to vote.

When you register, show up and prove who you are citizens have to right to vote. Dead people, illegal aliens, felons and those who have already voted do not.

Red herring. That happens very little. Disenfranchising poor and minorities happens massively. Again, you're fooling nobody. You know this helps the right wing because poor and minorities CITIZENS who are mostly the people without IDs because it costs time and money to get the IDs are the ones disenfranchised. Sickening that right wingers work hard to deny basic civil rights to their fellow citizens just based on race and poverty.

Again the mostly WHITE right wing may be winning this disgusting, anti-democratic fascistic war on poor and minorities, but you aren't fooling anybody about your reasons! We know your reasons.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/03/how-voter-id-laws-are-being-used-to-disenfranchise-minorities-and-the-poor/254572/

First, let's call it what it is. The burgeoning battles over state redistricting and voter ID laws -- and the larger fight over a key part of the Voting Rights Act itself -- are all cynical expressions of the concerns many conservatives (of both parties) have about the future of the American electorate. The Republican lawmakers who are leading the fight for the restrictive legislation say they are doing so in the name of stopping election fraud -- and, really, who's in favor of election fraud? But the larger purpose and effect of the laws is to disenfranchise Hispanic voters, other minorities, and the poor -- most of whom, let's also be clear, vote for Democrats.

What nonsense. This is why the left's arguments just make them look silly. One needs a photo ID to get on an airplane, to get a job, at the bank and sometimes even to enter their own apartment buildings, so having someone prove who they are to vote is only sensible and it is the law. For every fraudulent vote, a real vote is negated.

In 2008, the Supreme Court upheld a voter-identification law in Indiana, saying that requiring voters to produce photo identification is not unconstitutional and affirming that states have a "valid interest" in improving election procedures and deterring fraud. It is the law of the land and the Justice Department should be enforcing it, but Holder only seems to enforce the laws that he wants to enforce.

It is not a federal law of land. Typical right wing distortion. Voting isn't going to an apartment. It is sacred birthright, one that right wingers want to steal from poor and non-white people. The fight is not over!

It is a right for honest citizens who can prove who they are.

It's a war on poor people. You aren't fooling anyone.

Your war is against honest, transparent voting. You aren't fooling anyone.

You don't get it. Maybe you need to show ID at other places. Places that aren't related to your CIVIL RIGHTS. All citizens are eligible to vote. If you register and show up, you should be able to vote. You know the vast majority of YES CITIZENS who don't have ID are poor and minority people who will mostly vote against your right wing agenda.

The US government requires that I show my passport at Bangkok Bank to get my social security deposit each month. I have to show my passport to enter ANY US Embassy in the world. If I was in the US I would have to present two forms of identification to cash a check or board an airplane and I cannot enter Erik Holder's Justice Department without presenting photo ID.

The State of Florida has a listing of some 182,000 POSSIBLE ineligible voters on their voter roles. They applied to the US government to search the names of a US database to insure they were citizens, The Justice Department turned down the request by Florida to purge their voter records.

Was this action to save money for the poor people....or to save votes for the Democrats?

The State of Florida has a listing of some 182,000 POSSIBLE ineligible voters on their voter roles. They applied to the US government to search the names of a US database to insure they were citizens, The Justice Department turned down the request by Florida to purge their voter records.

Was this action to save money for the poor people....or to save votes for the Democrats?

For every ounce of false outrage that JT emits on this issue, I and countless others feel tons of true outrage at the outright thievery and racism the Democrats are able to get away with because of their allies in the media (which are 85-90% registered Democrats). People have forgotten it was the DEMOCRATS who were against freeing the slaves AND against the Civil Rights Act of 1964. They pretend to care about minorities but their real agenda is to keep them down and feeling the victim to lock in their votes in order to remain in power. Lord knows their "ideas" alone aren't enough. The Democratic Party - no truer example of a wolves in sheeps clothing has ever existed.

I guess Holder and the NAACP hate the poor and minorities too according to some posters here...

NAACP Requires Photo I.D. to See Holder Speak in State Being Sued Over Voter ID

Earlier today, Attorney General Eric Holder addressed the NAACP Nation Convention at the George R. Brown Convention Center in Houston, Texas. What did media need in order to attend? That's right, government issued photo identification (and a second form of identification too!), something both Holder and the NAACP stand firmly against when it comes to voting. Holder's DOJ is currently suing Texas for "discriminatory" voter ID laws. From the press release:

All media must present government-issued photo I.D. (such as a driver’s license) as well as valid media credentials

. Members of the media must RSVP to receive press credentials at

http://action.naacp....s/registration.

For security purposes, media check-in and equipment set up must be completed by 7:45 a.m. CDT for an 8:00 a.m. CDT security sweep. Once the security sweep is completed, additional media equipment will NOT be permitted to enter and swept equipment will NOT be permitted to exit.

Ironically, NAACP President Ben Jealous railed against voter ID just before Holder took the stage.

http://townhall.com/...ee_holder_speak

Let me get this right. If only 20% of the voters consider themselves Republicans and some 40% (including the Republicans) consider themselves as Conservatives, where is the remaining 12% coming from?

Well, if we were talking about Democrats and you asked where the additional 12% came from the answer would be obvious - they are counting pets and dead people.

That's a disgusting lie. The level of voter fraud is very, very low in the US. This sickening excuse is being used as a cynical ploy to disenfranchise poor and minority voters who are of course mostly democrats. The Fox News party is indeed anti-democrat and anti-democracy as well!

...and you are parroting Erik Holder's opinions.

Which one has been held in contempt of Congress lately...Fox News or Erik Holder?

It's a war on poor people. You aren't fooling anyone.

Your war is against honest, transparent voting. You aren't fooling anyone.

You don't get it. Maybe you need to show ID at other places. Places that aren't related to your CIVIL RIGHTS. All citizens are eligible to vote. If you register and show up, you should be able to vote. You know the vast majority of YES CITIZENS who don't have ID are poor and minority people who will mostly vote against your right wing agenda.

How on Earth do all these poor people and all the disenfranchised minorities in America ever buy alcohol or cigarettes? Photo IDs are required to purchase both.

It's a war on poor people. You aren't fooling anyone.

Your war is against honest, transparent voting. You aren't fooling anyone.

You don't get it. Maybe you need to show ID at other places. Places that aren't related to your CIVIL RIGHTS. All citizens are eligible to vote. If you register and show up, you should be able to vote. You know the vast majority of YES CITIZENS who don't have ID are poor and minority people who will mostly vote against your right wing agenda.

How on Earth do all these poor people and all the disenfranchised minorities in America ever buy alcohol or cigarettes? Photo IDs are required to purchase both.

On top of that, how do they ever claim health benefits? Will all the great healthcare they get through Obamacare come without showing any form of ID?

What about food stamps? Don't they need some for of ID to claim those?

Here is yet another Republican ploy.

_______________________________________________________

Poll: Obamacare Ruling Makes Voters ‘Less Likely’ to Vote for Obama

2:19 PM, JUL 12, 2012 • BY JEFFREY H. ANDERSON

The latest Quinnipiac poll shows that — by a 15-point margin — the Supreme Court’s Obamacare ruling makes voters less likely, rather than more likely, to cast their vote for President Obama.

From the article:

The poll shows that, by a 6-point margin (49 to 43 percent), registered voters want to see Obamacare repealed. Independents favor repeal by an 8-point margin (49 to 41 percent). Catholics favor repeal by a 22-point margin (58 to 36 percent). Repeal is supported by men, women, those between the ages of 18 and 34, those between the ages of 35 and 54, those who are 55 or over, those who make less than $30,000 annually, those who make between $30,000 and $50,000, those who make between $50,000 and $100,000, and those who make over $100,000.

http://www.weeklysta...ama_648476.html

Romney promoted the mandate model to go national. That's all you need to know. If the supreme court kills the mandate, it will be purely about their disgusting right wing political bias. This court starting with Bush vs. Gore has lost credibility as being above politics.

No, it will be because the mandate is unfunded. It was legislation of the worst kind. It's almost as if it was designed to fail.

It's not the supreme court's job to determine funded or not funded. That is totally ridiculous.

it was the republicans who took the single payer option of the table and forced the administration in the present compromise, it's this compromise that benefits the insurance companies. and the republicans to blame for it.

The American people had this unpopular bill shoved down their throats by using bribes and trickery. Repeal it, repeal Obama and come up with something that would actually work.

The republicans had the opportunity to come up with something that works, but instead chose to "liberate Iraq, and Afghanistan", They could have solved this problem that threatens the economic viability of this country with a small fraction of that war yet they chose not to. Now we should repeal this one and trust them to solve it next time?

Do you know what the definition of insanity is? it is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Romney promoted the mandate model to go national. That's all you need to know. If the supreme court kills the mandate, it will be purely about their disgusting right wing political bias. This court starting with Bush vs. Gore has lost credibility as being above politics.

No, it will be because the mandate is unfunded. It was legislation of the worst kind. It's almost as if it was designed to fail.

It's not the supreme court's job to determine funded or not funded. That is totally ridiculous.

it was the republicans who took the single payer option of the table and forced the administration in the present compromise, it's this compromise that benefits the insurance companies. and the republicans to blame for it.

I have to disagree with there. Unfortunately. Obama ran indicating support for single payer. Even before the negotiations begun, it was OBAMA who decided to not push single payer. He just decided he couldn't win with it. But I don't blame the republicans for not even trying. I blame Obama. What right wingers fail to ever say is that a large percentage of people who are unhappy with Obamacare and people who want single payer! It's not nearly good enough and yes to get full access and reduce costs, the insurance companies need to be fired.

The American people had this unpopular bill shoved down their throats by using bribes and trickery. Repeal it, repeal Obama and come up with something that would actually work.

The republicans had the opportunity to come up with something that works, but instead chose to "liberate Iraq, and Afghanistan",

Yeah! Because no Democrats supported going to war! WRONG. Hillary, Kerry, Edwards, the whole field of Democrat leadership supported going to war against Iraq & Afghanistan and even after 2004 when they switched to the "anti-Iraq war party" they still said Afghanistan was the "good war".

The American people had this unpopular bill shoved down their throats by using bribes and trickery. Repeal it, repeal Obama and come up with something that would actually work.

The republicans had the opportunity to come up with something that works, but instead chose to "liberate Iraq, and Afghanistan",

Yeah! Because no Democrats supported going to war! WRONG. Hillary, Kerry, Edwards, the whole field of Democrat leadership supported going to war against Iraq & Afghanistan and even after 2004 when they switched to the "anti-Iraq war party" they still said Afghanistan was the "good war".

That is a red herring argument, many people suported the war, that does not excuse the republicans for not doing anything under several administrations.,

The fact remains that the republicans did not do anything under Nixon, did not do anything under Reagan, did not do anything under Bush senior,

​ obstructed Clinton, and did not do anything under Bush junior.

And I don't forgive Obama for caving in to the republicans and compromising, but the fact remains that it was the republicans who forced the compromise.

​So now the republicans expect us to believe that now they found Christ in their heart and now will do something about it.

Get real!!The Obama plan might not be perfect but guess what,under the current system, with a pre-existing condition I could not even change my lob , and if I got fired or my company went under, all very real possibilities, under the existing system guess who will be paying for my medical care,

The tax payer will , when I have to go in to some sort of government program., or die.

Under the existing system the jock is, "GM is a health care providing company who also makes cars.",How can our companies compete internationally?

it just funny for me to hear the cattle cheering for their executioner as they head for the slaughtering gate. That's all I have to say.

it just funny for me to hear the cattle cheering for their executioner as they head for the slaughtering gate. That's all I have to say.

That sounds a lot like those cheering for Obama and his dismal economy.

The American people had this unpopular bill shoved down their throats by using bribes and trickery. Repeal it, repeal Obama and come up with something that would actually work.

The republicans had the opportunity to come up with something that works, but instead chose to "liberate Iraq, and Afghanistan",

Yeah! Because no Democrats supported going to war! WRONG. Hillary, Kerry, Edwards, the whole field of Democrat leadership supported going to war against Iraq & Afghanistan and even after 2004 when they switched to the "anti-Iraq war party" they still said Afghanistan was the "good war".

That is a red herring argument, many people suported the war, that does not excuse the republicans for not doing anything under several administrations.,

The fact remains that the republicans did not do anything under Nixon, did not do anything under Reagan, did not do anything under Bush senior,

​ obstructed Clinton, and did not do anything under Bush junior.

And I don't forgive Obama for caving in to the republicans and compromising, but the fact remains that it was the republicans who forced the compromise.

​So now the republicans expect us to believe that now they found Christ in their heart and now will do something about it.

Get real!!The Obama plan might not be perfect but guess what,under the current system, with a pre-existing condition I could not even change my lob , and if I got fired or my company went under, all very real possibilities, under the existing system guess who will be paying for my medical care,

The tax payer will , when I have to go in to some sort of government program., or die.

Under the existing system the jock is, "GM is a health care providing company who also makes cars.",How can our companies compete internationally?

it just funny for me to hear the cattle cheering for their executioner as they head for the slaughtering gate. That's all I have to say.

...and don't forget these memorable Republican administrations that did nothing... the Harry Truman, John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton ones.

-.And here I was expecting a reasonable debate on the subject

let's recap:

-The republicans will not use Obama's criminal offence of altering his birth certificate to gain the presidency, because it will disrupt the political process.

We should repeal Obama's medical reform plan and let the republicans offer a better one , because based on their past performance on the subject they will do such a better job

-it is Obama fault that the medical insurance companies will benefit from this compromise, and not the people that forced him of the single payer

option and on to this compromise.

- Romney is unfairly attacked when asked to present his tax returns, by liberal media and pundits such as the Washington Post, Bill Cristol, and George Will

At the very least, if this debate is not reasonable , it certainly is entertaining

Who says Republicans have no sense of humor?

At the very least, if this debate is not reasonable , it certainly is entertaining

Actually it is same old, same old. Perhaps you should read a few old threads before you start thinking that you are bringing anything new or original to the argument in OTB.

At the very least, if this debate is not reasonable , it certainly is entertaining

Actually it is same old, same old. Perhaps you should read a few old threads before you start thinking that you are bringing anything new or original to the argument in OTB.

as apposed to you who is?

You forgot to add these to your last post.

You forgot to add these to your last post.

or perhaps you should add them to yours