Carrying Passport With You

[phl]

The law says you have to carry your passport. My question is does this depend on which visa you hold?

I can't imagine it depends on visa type. After all the official would still need to see your passport to ascertain visa type.... Edit: After 13 years here only ever been required to show my passport at Govt offices, never asked for it by police.

Same here.

Having local DL is enough to get most things done and IF ever stopped by immigration, i am sure having local DL would get you out of hot water and give you time to produce your passport..

[NomadJoe]

The law says you have to carry your passport. My question is does this depend on which visa you hold?

What law is that, and what section of that law?

When people get arrested for not carrying their passport I presume that it must be illegal not to. For an arrest to be made it must contravene a law.

Who has ever been arrested for not carrying a passport ??

Do you have any evidence for this.

Any.............?

It's pretty rare, but it happens.

"Police also found one foreigner not carrying a passport"

http://www.coconutsb...ukhumvit-soi-3/

"Tourist applies for visa, arrested for not carrying passport"

http://www.thaivisa....rying-passport/

Another incident was reported at PW, but providing the link is prohibited.

Here is an interesting snip from the above TV link, the bold of which I never knew:

"It is compulsory for foreigners to carry a valid passport at all times in Thailand. In practice very few do, as losing it would establish a very difficult situation. An unofficial statement from the police says that an embassy-certified copy would be acceptable. It is not known how many tourists, e.g. when applying for visas elsewhere, go to their embassy first to get such a copy."

[TommoPhysicist]

The law says you have to carry your passport. My question is does this depend on which visa you hold?

The law says you have to provide photo ID, not passport in particular.

[ripstanley]

thankyou to those that have submitted positive responses. In particular NomadJoe. My initial question came from a recently posted thread

Edited June 30, 2012 by ripstanley

[NomadJoe]

There is no legal requirement in Thailand that non-Thai's must carry their passports with them at all times, it's ridiculous, proof of visa or not!

September 22, 2004

The law here is that all foreign tourist must have their passports to hand when the police ask for them. Tourists being in possession of their passports is similar to Thai people having identity cards – they must keep their ID cards with them for when police want to check their identify. However, if you are worried about losing your passport you can make a photocopy and carry that instead. At present we have problems in this country with international criminals, so inspection of passports is essential for safety and security reasons. When urine tests are conducted in Bangkok it is normal to check passports. I believe that many foreigners are happy to cooperate because they understand that we are serious about prevention of drug use. When police check for passports and people don’t have them, they must pay a fine.”

- Pol Lt Col Panudej Sookwong, Superintendent of Phuket Tourist Police.

Ah yes, the warm embrace of Thai official ambiguity.

But wait! There's more!

December 3, 2004

You should get the photocopy of the passport made after you come into Thailand. That way we can check everything – name, nationality, date of entry, expiration date of visa and passport, last destination and so on. If you make the copy before you come to Thailand, we cannot check all this information.

If you are worried about losing your passport, you can leave it in the hotel and have the front office manager or another person in authority sign the photocopy and write his name and position on it to verify it is an accurate copy.

- Pol Lt Col Panudej Sookwong, Superintendent of the Phuket Tourist Police.

However, it would appear not all cops share Lt. Col Sookwongs love for the "photocopy" rule:

December 3, 2004

Tourists must carry their passports with them at all times. This is an international rule. A passport is like an ID card; if you don't have it with you, the police may arrest you.

It's like showing a driving license to the police; if you show them a copy, there is no way for them to tell whether it is genuine or fake.

Similarly, it is impossible to present a copy of your passport when cashing travelers' checks. You have to show the bank the real thing.

-Pol Maj Phanthana Nutchanart, of the Bangkok Investigation Tourist Police

Lt. Col trumps a Major, so lets go with Sookwong's idea.

Source:

http://www.phuketgaz...ails.asp?id=747

http://www.phuketgaz...ails.asp?id=775

[Maestro]

When people get arrested for not carrying their passport I presume that it must be illegal not to. For an arrest to be made it must contravene a law.

You are absolutely right. If anybody has been arrested or fined for not carrying his or her passport and has an official document to show for this, I should be most grateful if he or she scanned this document and posted it here. This document would then show the law, and the section of that law, that was violated and thus led to the arrest, and this would once and for all answer the question whether there is a law that foreigners must carry their passports at all time. I believe one member posted in this thread that he was arrested for this, but was he? Or was he perhaps simply detained for the time that was needed to verify his identity?

Law, regulation, rule, requirement, etc to carry one's passport, all these statements appear to be mere extrapolations on the basis of Section 81 of Thailand's Immigration Act:

Section 81 : Any alien who stay in the Kingdom without permission or with

permission expired or revoked shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding

two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or both.

The permission to stay is stamped in my passport and therefore it is logical to consider that my passport is the appropriate document to show in evidence that I have a valid permission to stay, and it explains why a police officer, instead of talking around the bush, simply asks for my passport. Mystery solved. If I don't have the passport on me, it is then at the discretion of the officer whether to be satisfied with any other form of identification that I may offer him or whether to detain me until my passport is placed before him.

[TommoPhysicist]

The permission to stay is stamped in my passport and therefore it is logical to consider that my passport is the appropriate document to show in evidence that I have a valid permission to stay, and it explains why a police officer, instead of talking around the bush, simply asks for my passport. Mystery solved. If I don't have the passport on me, it is then at the discretion of the officer whether to be satisfied with any other form of identification that I may offer him or whether to detain me until my passport is placed before him.

Or the policeman could just phone up immigration, after checking your ID, and they would just confirm you were entitled to stay.

[NomadJoe]

When people get arrested for not carrying their passport I presume that it must be illegal not to. For an arrest to be made it must contravene a law.

You are absolutely right. If anybody has been arrested or fined for not carrying his or her passport and has an official document to show for this, I should be most grateful if he or she scanned this document and posted it here. This document would then show the law, and the section of that law, that was violated and thus led to the arrest, and this would once and for all answer the question whether there is a law that foreigners must carry their passports at all time. I believe one member posted in this thread that he was arrested for this, but was he? Or was he perhaps simply detained for the time that was needed to verify his identity?

Law, regulation, rule, requirement, etc to carry one's passport, all these statements appear to be mere extrapolations on the basis of Section 81 of Thailand's Immigration Act:

Section 81 : Any alien who stay in the Kingdom without permission or with

permission expired or revoked shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding

two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or both.

The permission to stay is stamped in my passport and therefore it is logical to consider that my passport is the appropriate document to show in evidence that I have a valid permission to stay, and it explains why a police officer, instead of talking around the bush, simply asks for my passport. Mystery solved. If I don't have the passport on me, it is then at the discretion of the officer whether to be satisfied with any other form of identification that I may offer him or whether to detain me until my passport is placed before him.

As I said before, and as was reinforced by the comment by Sunbelt Legals comment, and alluded to by the Tourist Police guys in the PG issues and Answers link, there are two relevant laws. One is a requirement of the Identity Card Act, which I cannot find an English translation of, and the other from the Immigration Act.

Section 81 lists the penalty for violating Section 58.

"Section 58: Any alien who has no lawful document for entering the Kingdom under Section 12 (1); or has no Residence Certificate under this Act; and also has no identification in accordance with the Law on Alien registration, (I have yet to find this Law on Alian Registration) is considered to have entered into the Kingdom in violation to this Act."

So that explains the ability to detain (some calling arrest, which is legally a different thing) until such a "lawful document for entering the Kingdom" can be presented. If it cannot be presented, you're arrested for being in the country illegally.

It's important to understand the difference between cited, detained and arrested. They all have distinctly different meanings in terms of the law and are often confused by the very people being cited, detained and arrested, as well as used incorrectly by the media.

So, the people that are getting cited (ticketed) for not carrying their passports are getting cited under the Identity Card Act. They are detained (held during investigation) until the passport can be presented. Either law can be used to detain. If they can't produce their passport like the guy in the ThaiVisa link above, then they are arrested under Section 58 of the Immigration Act for failing to show they have legally entered Thailand.

Ok, That's enough work for one day.

Edited June 30, 2012 by NomadJoe

[craigt3365]

Great information Joe! You mentioned Section 58 in your post, here's section 59:

Section 59 :The Director General, or the competent official deputized by Director General, shall have the authority to arrest and suppress any person violating this Act. They shall also have the authority to issue a subpoena, warrant of arrest or search, make arrest , search , or detain. They shall also have the authority to conduct inquiry into the offense against the provisions of this Act in the same manner as the inquiry official under the Criminal Procedure Code.

[NomadJoe]

Great information Joe! You mentioned Section 58 in your post, here's section 59:

Section 59 :The Director General, or the competent official deputized by Director General, shall have the authority to arrest and suppress any person violating this Act. They shall also have the authority to issue a subpoena, warrant of arrest or search, make arrest , search , or detain. They shall also have the authority to conduct inquiry into the offense against the provisions of this Act in the same manner as the inquiry official under the Criminal Procedure Code.

Yeah that is another relevant section. So is section 12. It's common for sections of code to reference each other which makes it a pain in the arse to continually have to look up cross referenced sections. I used to have to do that a lot.

The law says you have to carry your passport. My question is does this depend on which visa you hold?

The law says you have to provide photo ID, not passport in particular.

Partially true. The Identity Card Act states you must "provide photo ID" (i.e. carry on your person or have in the area you occupy or are working etc.) The Immigration Act states you must be able to prove you are legally in the country.

Edited July 1, 2012 by NomadJoe

[condobrit001]

Having lived for nine years in the Sukhumvit/Asoke area I have never once been stopped by the police for a passport inspection. I do however carry a laminated reduced size copy of my passport photo page, with my current 12 month visa on the reverse. This is universally accepted in banks, hotels and other institutions .

Generally, Thai police, and Tourist police will only stop you if they think they can make some money from you. For whatever "offence" - including the dropping of litter or cigarett buts, if you stand your ground, refuse to pay any penalty and ask to be taken to the police station, they will move on to a more cooperative mark.

[Tatsujin]

Never been asked for my passport . . . a photocopy is fine, or Thai drivers licence.

[paulmw]

Honestly I don't "know" the law (can not cite), but from other readings I am quite sure, that a foreigner is obliged to carry his passport.

BUT: I would not do so, except where it is absolutely required (for official purposes at immi, amphoe etc.),

AND: I always carry a COPY of the relevant pages with me and a copy of the last residence certificate from immi.

SURE: the BIB at roadside never asked me for a passport, always happy to see my Thai drivers license.

BUT: when I check in at hotels in Bangkok/Pattaya I am always asked for my passport.

Never tried it wih a copy or with the drivers license.

They look for/note down details about visa/permisson to stay from the passport.

Can anyone comment on that?

I have an ongoing argument with a fellow who says: "checkin at hotel with drivers license", "no problem".

Subtle difference: he has a yellow tabien baan and so has a Thai person ID (or how to call that) in his drivers license, which at least makes sure he is properly identified.

"Quality" of drivers license

First attempt last year: missing family name, only first names. Second attempt: first name spelled wrong. Giving up.

Now on my five year license: completely wrong address (and that after handing over certificate from immi). Giving up.

I have used my Thai drivers license many times to book in to hotels never a problem.

[tombkk]

There is no legal requirement in Thailand that non-Thai's must carry their passports with them at all times, it's ridiculous, proof of visa or not!

{snipped for brevity}

However, it would appear not all cops share Lt. Col Sookwongs love for the "photocopy" rule:

December 3, 2004

Tourists must carry their passports with them at all times. This is an international rule. A passport is like an ID card; if you don't have it with you, the police may arrest you.

It's like showing a driving license to the police; if you show them a copy, there is no way for them to tell whether it is genuine or fake.

Similarly, it is impossible to present a copy of your passport when cashing travelers' checks. You have to show the bank the real thing.

-Pol Maj Phanthana Nutchanart, of the Bangkok Investigation Tourist Police

Lt. Col trumps a Major, so lets go with Sookwong's idea.

Source:

http://www.phuketgaz...ails.asp?id=747

http://www.phuketgaz...ails.asp?id=775

I would like the good Pol Maj to point out the "international rule" he is referring to.

That said, I never carry my passport with me, except when going on international flights or getting an extension of stay. I always carry my driver's licence, and police, hotels, airline staff (for domestic flights) and security officers at the airport accept it. Should a police officer detain me for not carrying my passport, I will ask him to show me the law (once we are at the station) and explain this to my embassy.

However, tourists don't have Thai driver's licences. They should always carry a form of ID in case they are involved in an accident anyway. I have heard of people carrying a photocopy of their passports (laminated or not, but certainly not certified by their embassy) and that was accepted in random checks.

[tombkk]

There are a couple of threads regarding this very subject http://www.thaivisa....wdoes-it-exist/

http://www.thaivisa....being-enforced/

Yes, but one of these threads is old, and the other about experiences in Chiang Mai.

[camerata]

In Bangkok, in the Asoke area of Sukhumvit, it has become increasingly common for anyone visibly foreign (ie non Thai) to be stopped and asked for passport.

He then said something like "you smoking , uh? Smoking?" Me big grin: " no gave up years ago.." although I'm sure he was trying to imply illegal substances. He looked annoyed but was clearly unable to say or do anything so I was on my way.

This seemed a totally motiveless, pointless stop: it was around 3pm and I was on my way to the dentists.

A friend of mine on his first visit to LOS said he was followed by a cop near Benjasiri Park (next to Emporium) until he stubbed out his cigarette on a wall and threw it in a bin. He was then pounced on and fined 2000 baht for "littering." No receipt. I guess it's an area where one should be extra careful.

[Xonax]

Without a valid passport any foreigner will get arrested. If you carry a copy of your passport (or perhaps a Thai drivers license), you will more likely have to pay a fine or tea money.

[Muggi1968]

I use my Thai drivers license... Never had problems... Police or bank... Only needed Passport for getting first Thai drivers license and immigration

[Gers1873]

Carry a clear photocopy including visa page and of course the ubiquitous 500 baht - no pronlemo.

[thaigold]

Most of this urine testing and passport requirements are a feature of the Sukhumvit corridor. Add to this the Farang propensity to get hot under the collar almost guarantees a problem with the Thai police. Stay cool, and say 'yes sir a lot,' just like you'd do after a CHP stop in California. Heck, I got busted for driving under the influence in Honolulu. I did a lot of yes sir's - they put me in the cooler for a few hours and then I blew under the limit. Cool cops / kiss ass arrestee.

[jshorts]

Honestly I don't "know" the law (can not cite), but from other readings I am quite sure, that a foreigner is obliged to carry his passport.

BUT: I would not do so, except where it is absolutely required (for official purposes at immi, amphoe etc.),

AND: I always carry a COPY of the relevant pages with me and a copy of the last residence certificate from immi.

SURE: the BIB at roadside never asked me for a passport, always happy to see my Thai drivers license.

BUT: when I check in at hotels in Bangkok/Pattaya I am always asked for my passport.

Never tried it wih a copy or with the drivers license.

They look for/note down details about visa/permisson to stay from the passport.

Can anyone comment on that?

I have an ongoing argument with a fellow who says: "checkin at hotel with drivers license", "no problem".

Subtle difference: he has a yellow tabien baan and so has a Thai person ID (or how to call that) in his drivers license, which at least makes sure he is properly identified.

"Quality" of drivers license

First attempt last year: missing family name, only first names. Second attempt: first name spelled wrong. Giving up.

Now on my five year license: completely wrong address (and that after handing over certificate from immi). Giving up.

I often check into hotels with a Thai driver's license. No problem.

[jimbeam1]

There is another way. You can go to any Kodak Photo Studio and made a small coloured laminated copy of your passport and a page with visa. It will cost for you 100-200 baht.

I had a friend do exactly what you are saying, for me in the UK. I would never release my original passport to the hands of any of Thailand's finest, as you never know how much it would cost to get it back.

jb1

[dude007]

I think the issue is one of legitimate ID even though I have been told the law specifies passport for foreigners.

I have been able to use a photocopy of the passport front page (cut down to size and folded into my wallet) successfully when asked for ID by BIB. I now don't even bother with that, just a Thai drivers license. It has my passport number on it, and I hope it will be enough if stopped by BIB or I am hauled unconscious into Emergency.

\

It is indeed as valid ID accepted: your Thai driving license. I had never a problem with that but I don't know if this would be enough for the bank. No matter what you do in the bank you need your passport. It irks me... this is not an immigration checkpoint but a BANK!

Even domestic flights do not need more than your Thai driving license for boarding, which is credit-card sized and convenient for your wallet. I also heard that many motorbike renters or water scooter renters ask your passport... which I personally would NEVER give. I wonder if theThai driving license woud be enough for them?

[RBOP]

The law says you have to carry your passport. My question is does this depend on which visa you hold?

It doesn’t matter what type of visa you have. You should carry your passport with you or at least a good photocopy of it. If you don’t carry identification you can be arrested on the spot for vagrancy.

[joseph49]

I don’t know the answer to your question but my guess is that is doesn’t matter which visa. In my experience it might be the rule but they have always preferred my driver’s license over a passport except at immigration. Police and others typically can’t make heads or tails of a passport and much prefer a Thai document which they can read.

I have a Thai drivers licence but i found out today that they placed my family name as my first name. Jjust another challenge. I really enjoy living in Thailand. That is NOT a sarcastic comment. Living in a village in the north is great.

would love to sample village life in Thailand --any advise --have been to Thailand many times but not to village

[Maestro]

As I said before, and as was reinforced by the comment by Sunbelt Legals comment, and alluded to by the Tourist Police guys in the PG issues and Answers link, there are two relevant laws. One is a requirement of the Identity Card Act, which I cannot find an English translation of, and the other from the Immigration Act.

Section 81 lists the penalty for violating Section 58.

"Section 58: Any alien who has no lawful document for entering the Kingdom under Section 12 (1); or has no Residence Certificate under this Act; and also has no identification in accordance with the Law on Alien registration, (I have yet to find this Law on Alian Registration) is considered to have entered into the Kingdom in violation to this Act."

So that explains the ability to detain (some calling arrest, which is legally a different thing) until such a "lawful document for entering the Kingdom" can be presented. If it cannot be presented, you're arrested for being in the country illegally.

It's important to understand the difference between cited, detained and arrested. They all have distinctly different meanings in terms of the law and are often confused by the very people being cited, detained and arrested, as well as used incorrectly by the media.

So, the people that are getting cited (ticketed) for not carrying their passports are getting cited under the Identity Card Act. They are detained (held during investigation) until the passport can be presented. Either law can be used to detain. If they can't produce their passport like the guy in the ThaiVisa link above, then they are arrested under Section 58 of the Immigration Act for failing to show they have legally entered Thailand.

Ok, That's enough work for one day.

Thank you, NomadJoe, for giving the link between sections 81 and 58 of the Immigration Act. I had bee looking for it, but in the wrong place, in section 37 which lists the obligations of a foreigner given permission to stay in Thailand and was surprised to see no requirement to leave the country before the permission to say expires.

Thank you also for the reference to the Law on Alien Registration, which I now remember having heard about before but have then forgotten because I was unable to hunt it down. If somebody has its Thai name I shall start a new hunt for it.

P.S. As the question of the requirement to carry one's passport at all times comes up every once in while I have added a link to NomadJoe's post in the pinned topic "Useful Immigration Information & Visa Descriptions" under the link "Laws, regulations, Police Orders, etc.", where it is currently link No. 22

Edited July 1, 2012 by Maestro
Added postscript.

[TommoPhysicist]

Can anyone comment on that?

I have an ongoing argument with a fellow who says: "checkin at hotel with drivers license", "no problem".

Subtle difference: he has a yellow tabien baan and so has a Thai person ID (or how to call that) in his drivers license, which at least makes sure he is properly identified.

I've been on holidays several times within Thailand, only ID I carried was my Thai driving license, always good for boarding aircraft, booking into hotels, and Thai price entry to Islands and Parks.

Edited July 1, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[how241]

The law says you have to carry your passport. My question is does this depend on which visa you hold?

I can't imagine it depends on visa type. After all the official would still need to see your passport to ascertain visa type.... Edit: After 13 years here only ever been required to show my passport at Govt offices, never asked for it by police.

Same here. Only asked at Banks, Gov't. offices.

[Maestro]

I have never tried checking in for a local flight with my driving licence and wonder if they would accept it with my photo of 40 years ago which I hardly resemble any more ( I started driving at the age of 18). The licences of those days have no expiration date.

[DMC1]

I think the issue is one of legitimate ID even though I have been told the law specifies passport for foreigners.

I have been able to use a photocopy of the passport front page (cut down to size and folded into my wallet) successfully when asked for ID by BIB. I now don't even bother with that, just a Thai drivers license. It has my passport number on it, and I hope it will be enough if stopped by BIB or I am hauled unconscious into Emergency.

\

It is indeed as valid ID accepted: your Thai driving license. I had never a problem with that but I don't know if this would be enough for the bank. No matter what you do in the bank you need your passport. It irks me... this is not an immigration checkpoint but a BANK!

Even domestic flights do not need more than your Thai driving license for boarding, which is credit-card sized and convenient for your wallet. I also heard that many motorbike renters or water scooter renters ask your passport... which I personally would NEVER give. I wonder if theThai driving license woud be enough for them?

No, IMO I think needing to produce your passport in the Bank is a good thing. The more pieces of ID the better for banking. The Thai DL's are much easier to counterfeit than a passport.