Best Thai Language School

[Parvis]

We are beginning to agree more and more. Motivation and attitude are the most important factors in learning a language (etc.), - well - for that matter - the most important factors in everything in your life. Therefore an individual (Walen) telling you - you are just getting too old and therefore your ability to learn is limited - is just totally "off his rockers".

I also agree there are patterns in learning. An individual able to speak 6-8 languages does not have to "relearn" every time. This individual has "mastered his brain software program" and can use it for different applications (languages).

Repetition - repetition - repetition is just one part of the learning process. However I feel (as a scientist) this "learning process" can be defined into specific segments and therefore can be optimized.

[SoftWater]

An individual able to speak 6-8 languages does not have to "relearn" every time. This individual has "mastered his brain software program" and can use it for different applications (languages).

Repetition - repetition - repetition is just one part of the learning process. However I feel (as a scientist) this "learning process" can be defined into specific segments and therefore can be optimized.

Yes, I have seen research evidence that supports the view that students in bilingual schools are more successful at academic English than students in monolingual English schools, suggesting that learning one language can help you to learn another.

As for the naturalistic approach to optimizing language learning, I'm sceptical simply because the variables are so great. However, you could be right, but I think you may have to be the one to pioneer the study, Parvis!

Edited November 15, 2009 by SoftWater

[Sateev]

While I know nothing of the AUA branch in Chiang Mai, I can attest to the fact that the AUA school in Bangkok is initially a listening ONLY type of school.

It uses the "ALG" aka "Automatic Language Growth" method when learning thai. While I did research into the methodology, I was less than impressed. The innovators of the ALG system allege that after 600 hours of listening to two thai people interact on a stage using a variety of props, you will magically be able to converse in thai to thais. This is done with ZERO student interaction, no question/answers in class and not actually speaking ANY thai at all in the classroom. A dubious claim at best, but with that being said, I did meet several people who had attended 300+ hours and could speak some sort of semi-intelligible thai. Although upon further questioning; they were also learning thai with other resources.

To their credit the teachers or "actors" at AUA are innovative, interesting, theatrical and being thai nationals, speak clear thai. They tend to speak at normal speed and cadence so it's hard to hear the word breaks if you're not used to listening to thais speak. On the up side, if you buy blocks of hours, it's by far the most inexpensive thai language school to attend. The classes are offered many, many hours a day, and you can go at your convenience.

If I am not mistaken, AUA is one of the hardest schools to get an education visa from. Last time I was there they said you must attend class 30 hours a week to qualify for them to help you get your visa. Most private thai language schools stick to the Ministry of Education's minimum of 4 hours a week spread over a year to get a visa.

AUA does have a reading and writing course, but you must test into if you don't attend their whacky "learn to speak by listening only" class before hand. I spoke to the lady who oversees enrollment and it appears the test is such that even a marginal reader of thai, and/or a very basic speaker could probably get into the class if they pushed it, and were motivated to learn once they got in.

The good news is AUA sells all the old text books that they used (before they converted to the ALG method) to teach speaking, reading and writing thai at the bookstore. I couldn't get the cassettes that go with the speaking thai books (that shows you how old the material and method is) as they are all out of stock. Maybe bit-torrent has them I dunno.

...

As a former AUA student for whom the experience was wildly boring, there are a few mistaken impressions I should clear up.

While, as I said, I couldn't tolerate the endless hours of listening to stories, it is NOT true that there is no student interaction. While "Please don't speak Thai" is the stated theoretical optimum (per Marvin Brown, and, especially, David Long, the director of the school), in practice, students are encouraged to indicate their understanding (or not) of the subject being presented. Some of the more pragmatic (and less dogmatic) teachers even encourage answers in simple Thai. And I really believe that the method works for absolute beginners MUCH better than for folks with a smattering of conversational ability. Dictionaries are discouraged, in favor of 'sussing out' the meaning of the overall subject. As you learn, cross correlation begins to single out common words, and substitution becomes possible, so understanding of similarly constructed sentences dawns, albeit slowly.

My personal problem is that I already spoke too much Thai (although not necessarily well), and was placed in Level 3 when I first enrolled. I found it frustrating, because the match was spotty: On some topics, I was bored; on others I was in over my head. Also, I wanted to learn to read as soon as possible, which was going to be several hundred hours hence at AUA, even though I already knew the alphabet (no reading until Level 5).

As for what is the best school, of course, as tod-daniels points out, it depends on how you learn, and what your goals are. I learned to hear and reproduce tones fairly early, because I had a teacher who understood the problems farangs have with them. That occurred at a Wat Thai in the US, and was the true watershed in my Thai education, and I have continued at my normal (not-so-fast) pace ever since. The Union-type language schools were not the best fit for me, either. In the end, I probably took a lot longer with the eclectic approach to get to my current skill set. I get by.

I have friends who swear by AUA, and I have friends who teach there, as well. I try to be unbiased, and I realize that AUA is a radical departure from the usual Second Language methods. I would neither praise, nor condemn it on that basis alone...

Find what works for you.

Sateev

[Groongthep]

As a former AUA student for whom the experience was wildly boring, there are a few mistaken impressions I should clear up.

While, as I said, I couldn't tolerate the endless hours of listening to stories, it is NOT true that there is no student interaction. While "Please don't speak Thai" is the stated theoretical optimum (per Marvin Brown, and, especially, David Long, the director of the school), in practice, students are encouraged to indicate their understanding (or not) of the subject being presented. Some of the more pragmatic (and less dogmatic) teachers even encourage answers in simple Thai. And I really believe that the method works for absolute beginners MUCH better than for folks with a smattering of conversational ability. Dictionaries are discouraged, in favor of 'sussing out' the meaning of the overall subject. As you learn, cross correlation begins to single out common words, and substitution becomes possible, so understanding of similarly constructed sentences dawns, albeit slowly.

My personal problem is that I already spoke too much Thai (although not necessarily well), and was placed in Level 3 when I first enrolled. I found it frustrating, because the match was spotty: On some topics, I was bored; on others I was in over my head. Also, I wanted to learn to read as soon as possible, which was going to be several hundred hours hence at AUA, even though I already knew the alphabet (no reading until Level 5).

As for what is the best school, of course, as tod-daniels points out, it depends on how you learn, and what your goals are. I learned to hear and reproduce tones fairly early, because I had a teacher who understood the problems farangs have with them. That occurred at a Wat Thai in the US, and was the true watershed in my Thai education, and I have continued at my normal (not-so-fast) pace ever since. The Union-type language schools were not the best fit for me, either. In the end, I probably took a lot longer with the eclectic approach to get to my current skill set. I get by.

I have friends who swear by AUA, and I have friends who teach there, as well. I try to be unbiased, and I realize that AUA is a radical departure from the usual Second Language methods. I would neither praise, nor condemn it on that basis alone...

Find what works for you.

Sateev

Sateev's impression of AUA is very much like mine. I have attended AUA in Bangkok on and off for several years. It is true that speaking Thai in (or out of) class is discouraged but this rule is by no means rigidly adhered to. As Sateev said, many instructors routinely ask questions of the students during the lessons. It is my impression that when they do they are not looking for long detailed conversations but simple answers to judge how much the student understands the topic on which the teacher is speaking, but this is just my guess. He or she may also just be curious about a student's opinion or just simply trying to keep a dozing student awake. I don't know.

Like Sateev, I started AUA already being able to speak Thai fairly well. I was placed in the AT5 (highest) level when I began. I found the (mostly) listening only method an excellent way to improve my comprehension of rapidly spoken idiomatic speech with which I often have problems. Yes, there are times when it is coming so fast that I lose track but usually I can at least grasp the general concepts that are being discussed. On the other hand, depending on the subject matter, there are times when I can understand everything being said. Regardless, the more I attended the more I absorb. Like most other methods it builds upon itself.

What it doesn't have however is repetition and drills. If your learning style is such that repetition and practice are important to you then AUA alone will probably not be enough. There is no reason however why you can't augment the AUA comprehension lessons with other more traditional learning techniques. There is nothing keeping you from learning reading and writing at another school or on your own while also attending AUA for comprehension. One of the best things about AUA is that you can come and go as you like. You can attend lectures/discussions in the morning one day or in the afternoon or evening on other days and even skip days, weeks or even months between classes if you wish. (Doing this will disqualify you from an Ed Visa however.) Because David Long encourages you not to speak Thai out of class there is, of course no reason why you can't still do it if you so want. I do it all the time. I also review my old FSI and "pre-ALG" AUA materials all the time too especially when I am not in Thailand. (I only spend about half the year here.) I also have some of the newer computer based materials like Courage Thai and Rosetta Stone that I sometimes peruse over as well. Together they have all have served me well.

[Modori]

I'm Japanese live around sukhumvit.

I had taken thai lesson at

Thai Language Station about 10 month.

I am not sure for forigner but this school most famous school in japan.because they have thai school in tokyo

osaka in japan.and they run it long time.

i think their method get many students.

use phonetic alphabet at first.and after middle level

thier textbook use thai letters.

Now i work with thai language.

if i didnot learn thai language with thai lanugage station,

i might not use thai language like now.I can have many thai friend from here.

i do not know another person , but i thank thai language station

and their teachers.

[juiso]

I can only advise everyone to avoid Walen Language school. As they would never hire any qualified teacher. To save money the hire staff who worked before in hotels or restaurants. Those "teacher" can speak basic english, however, the will not be able to answer you any questions relating to Thai grammar.

The "amazing" Walen method to learn English was only created to enable even the most unqualified staff to "teach" Thai. Walen method means the teacher will read out laud the same book 6-8 times (!!!), with same pre=scripted repetitive interaction with the students build in.

If anyone knows a decent Thai school, which actually hires qualified teacher, please let me know.

[Parvis]

I went to Walen for 30 private lessons - my teacher was good - but the book is unprofessional, haphazardly put together. Therefore in principle I agree with you.

The "method" is basically an approach of "total immersion" - which I agree with - were it not for their teaching materials and attitude. However - to get maximum benefit out of this method - you will find using the Rossetta Stone Software is actually much more effective. "L-Lingo" is on the same basic method - better put together than Rossetta Stone - but not as comprehensive. L-Lingo is new and so far free.

I believe you should not spent your money on Schools until after you have learned to "master" a Rossetta Stone type of program. You will have "basic knowledge" and the ability to read Thai script.

Thereafter, I feel a "Conversational Thai Course" may be appropriate - all in Thaiscript. I interviewed "Plammitr" - they have such a program - but I have no personal experience with them. I would like comments on Plammitr from anyone who has experience with them.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Parvis

[RickBradford]

juiso,

If you're going to bag Walen, you should at least point out the bright side -- it's right there under your post.

[theoldgit]

If you're going to bag Walen, you should at least point out the bright side -- it's right there under your post.

Yes, but the "100% 'Money Back' guarantee" is for Language Express, not Walen.

[Parvis]

Let me assure you if Walen had a "Money back Guarantee" I would have asked for my money back. The teaching material is useless. Their business is Visas - go to Pattaya and you will notice they MAY have 2-3 student studying.

[MacWalen]

I can only advise everyone to avoid Walen Language school. As they would never hire any qualified teacher. To save money the hire staff who worked before in hotels or restaurants. Those "teacher" can speak basic english, however, the will not be able to answer you any questions relating to Thai grammar.

The "amazing" Walen method to learn English was only created to enable even the most unqualified staff to "teach" Thai. Walen method means the teacher will read out laud the same book 6-8 times (!!!), with same pre=scripted repetitive interaction with the students build in.

If anyone knows a decent Thai school, which actually hires qualified teacher, please let me know.

What competing school are you from? Did you register just to say something bad about your teachers? If you read more this forum you will find that our teachers are actually considered very good.

Walen School - our teachers are our pride!

www.thaiwalen.com

PS. Ok guys, Walen is back in this thread so now after a long period of very low activity we will create some motion!

PS2. For all Walen haters, peace to you!

For priority service please register

www.dcs.walenschool.com/1mw290910.eng

Edited February 28, 2011 by macwalen

[MacWalen]

I went to Walen for 30 private lessons - my teacher was good - but the book is unprofessional, haphazardly put together. Therefore in principle I agree with you.

The "method" is basically an approach of "total immersion" - which I agree with - were it not for their teaching materials and attitude. However - to get maximum benefit out of this method - you will find using the Rossetta Stone Software is actually much more effective. "L-Lingo" is on the same basic method - better put together than Rossetta Stone - but not as comprehensive. L-Lingo is new and so far free.

I believe you should not spent your money on Schools until after you have learned to "master" a Rossetta Stone type of program. You will have "basic knowledge" and the ability to read Thai script.

Thereafter, I feel a "Conversational Thai Course" may be appropriate - all in Thaiscript. I interviewed "Plammitr" - they have such a program - but I have no personal experience with them. I would like comments on Plammitr from anyone who has experience with them.

The good point is that we are able to constantly improve based on your comments. Thanks and continue your constructive criticism.

Walen School - hot topic!

www.thaiwalen.com

For priority service please register

www.dcs.walenschool.com/1mw290910.eng

Edited February 28, 2011 by macwalen

[MacWalen]

Let me assure you if Walen had a "Money back Guarantee" I would have asked for my money back. The teaching material is useless. Their business is Visas - go to Pattaya and you will notice they MAY have 2-3 student studying.

Oh my dear, Parvis, you are really an offensive guy, Pattaya school is very popular with many many students. The busiest school in town. You lost your face already so you sworn to be our enemy, it was your own making, that is OK, we never did anything against you and your issues are purely personal but at least do not write complete lies!

www.thaiwalen.com

For priority service please register

www.dcs.walenschool.com/1mw290910.eng

Edited February 28, 2011 by macwalen

[Parvis]

Walen -

Did you ever consider why I have turned negative on your School?

Obviously - I must have been positive in the beginning - to even attend your School - especially at the high price I paid (22,500 baht for 30 hours).

Therefore, my "negativity" appears to be from experience rather than "perturped imagination (i.e. lies)".

Can you follow the logic?

If my comments actually "inspire" you for some "corrective actions" then my comments are what they are meant to be "a call for necessary action".

Walen - you should have offered me a tuitionfree week BEFORE I STARTED - which you advertise - but since I was not aware of it - you may have just thought "there comes another farang sucker". It is very unlikely that I would have paid 22,500 baht for 30 hours after a trial.

THEREFORE, let me make you an offer :

Invite me for a trial of 1 week with the new material that you appear to say you are revising and I will discontinue my negativity based on any new facts I MAY DISCOVER AT YOUR SCHOOL.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Parvis

[rgs2001uk]

^^ Parvis

I dont know what level you are at, or what you are looking for, however you could do worse than try the following,

Thonglor Language Center

806 Sukhumvit Soi 38,

Sukhumvit Road, Bangkok 10110

Tel: 0-2391-6358, 0-2390-0244

Located right next to the sky train enterance.

There is also another school on Suk soi 11, Somchart I believe its called.

Can you confirm you paid 22,500 baht for 30 hours.

The reason I ask, that equates to 750 baht per hour, sorry I wouldnt pay that sort of money.

At one of the schools I attended, a teacher was leaving because of problems with the school.

I ended up paying her 1,000 baht per day (more than double she was being paid by the school) for private tuition, money well spent.

Getting hold of a decent teacher isnt easy, but when you do find one hold on to them.

You should have enough experience by now, talk to the teacher and school first, ask to see the course content, ask what they can do for you and what they expect from you.

Dont be fobbed off with vauge answers or promises, ask around, I am sure there are plenty of us out here who have been through the same.

Just remember someone has to pay for those fancy office spaces being leased in prime locations, I wanted a decent teacher and course content, location was of secondary importance.

[Parvis]

Yes - I can confirm that I paid 750 baht per hour x 30 hrs = 22,500 baht for almost useless private Thai instructions (I am sure I still have the receipt). The teacher was not the problem - but rather the teaching material and Walens attitude.

I was "sucked in" by "false advertising claims"

I would still consider mysself an "advanced beginner" - but I can read and write and converse at "basic levels".

Thank you for your recommendations. I am looking for continuation on a "private instruction level". My emphasize is Quality.

[MacWalen]

Yes - I can confirm that I paid 750 baht per hour x 30 hrs = 22,500 baht for almost useless private Thai instructions (I am sure I still have the receipt). The teacher was not the problem - but rather the teaching material and Walens attitude.

I was "sucked in" by "false advertising claims"

I would still consider mysself an "advanced beginner" - but I can read and write and converse at "basic levels".

Thank you for your recommendations. I am looking for continuation on a "private instruction level". My emphasize is Quality.

What about me offering you a free course in a group for 30 lessons? I will try to identify your learning problems and will do my best to help you. If you really want to learn the Walen School is certainly one of the best options.

Will you take it?

Walen School - we produce results!

www.thaiwalen.com

For priority service please register

www.dcs.walenschool.com/1mw290910.eng

Edited February 28, 2011 by macwalen

[Parvis]

Walen - I have no "learning problem" - However I will accept your offer of free 30 Hours in a group - with Book # 2.

I take this "offer" so far with a grain of salt since you previously made promises - such as identifying the problems I saw in your Book #1 - which you never went through with.

But if your serious - I am certainly willing to try - just let me know the times. But remember - 30 hours in a group with Book #2.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Parvis

[MacWalen]

I'm checking the schedules for you, thank you for accepting my offer. Regarding mistakes in book one, I will be happy to go over the book with you and you can point out things that you think are incorrect. I will certainly make corrections it this is indeed so.

Will back to you soon.

Walen School - Thailand, what an amazing place!

www.thaiwalen.com

For priority service please register

www.dcs.walenschool.com/1mw290910.eng

Edited February 28, 2011 by macwalen

[frankylove]

does anyone know of a school near pathum thani just out of bangkok city???? trying to get one as close as possible cheers

[Tod Daniels]

Thai conversational courses are one of the hardest to gauge as far as "bang for the baht".

The good one's I've seen have short stories with new vocabulary words typed out, questions to gauge your comprehension, and are taught ONLY in thai. The student and teacher go over the vocabulary first, and then the student reads the story silently to themself. After that the student reads it aloud, sentence by sentence with the teacher correcting his pronunciation. Once the story is read, the questions are asked by the teacher to gauge comprehension, and the student answers only in thai using as complete spoken thai sentence structure as they can. The difficulty in this type of learning is finding subject material that is of interest to the student (something that is critical to any learning) as well being written at a level which the student will understand. Using material either too far above the students current level as well as too far below are both detrimental. So proper course material is a critical factor in this equation.

I have attended free classes at more thai language schools than I care to even remember. Most of their thai conversation classes are nothing more than a thai national gossiping, using the time to preach their value system and/or pawn their beliefs off on the students in some demonstration of superior thai intellect. (Can you tell I'm less than impressed by the majority of conversational thai courses I’ve attended? )

Given the dissimilarities between written and spoken thai being able to read, in and of itself doesn't give you any spoken thai experience. By dissimilarities I mean things like in colloquially spoken thai, subjects are routinely left out if understood in context, and other things which differentiate written thai from spoken.

I have met people who profess to be able to 'read thai', and can actually pronounce a word fairly accurately, but when asked, they can't tell me what it means in engrish. Sadly, this is NOT reading; if you don't know the meaning of what you're reading, you just ain't reading my friend, no matter how good your pronunciation is. I’d rather massacre a word's pronunciation yet be able to know the meaning every time I read it, than speak it totally clear and be clueless as to its definition.

Learning the thai language with any proficiency is basically about two things; vocabulary word acquisition, and learning thai language structure. They go hand in hand; you cannot just spew out thai words in engrish sentence order and think it'll fly here. It'll come out like the mindless gibberish I hear foreigners who profess to 'speak thai' spout every day much to the bewilderment of the thais they are speaking to.

This week I am going to attend two conversational thai classes a different thai language schools near my house, and I'll report back on their perceived value. I am also looking for other perspective students to attend a conversational thai class with, as I've found going it alone is sometimes disconcerting. Anyway, I'll report back.

Sorry I put this on two thread in the Language Forum.. Deal with it.

[desi]

This week I am going to attend two conversational thai classes a different thai language schools near my house, and I'll report back on their perceived value. I am also looking for other perspective students to attend a conversational thai class with, as I've found going it alone is sometimes disconcerting. Anyway, I'll report back.

I'll certainly be looking forward to it Tod.

(You write excellent, and fair reviews)

[Tod Daniels]

School Review - Thai Language Solutions

http://www.thaisolutions1502.com/

There is a currently running thread about this school; although the O/P did not name it directly (I just Googled the locations and found it quite easily). Anyway I thought I’d go scope it out today and report back what I found.

The school is conveniently located next to the Grand Millennium Hotel on Asok not too far from the Sukhumvit MRT Exit #2, on the 12th floor of a building called the Fico Building.

I talked at length with the owner of the school, perused their course materials and their pricing structure as well as chatted briefly with some current students.

They offer a wide variety of classes depending on what you want from your lessons. The basic books use phonemic transcription (although the books are also available in thai if you can already read).

Overall I found the material in the 3 levels of books I perused to be well thought out, well presented, and structured in a way that previously learned material is built on in subsequent lessons. The advanced books are also well put together, and chapters have manageable chunks of material. The Reading and Writing Thai course is taught together with time being devoted to both areas. As an added plus; ALL the books come with a companion “home work” book that is to be completed out of class to reinforce what has been learned. While I didn’t get to see the thai conversation books I was told they are in short story form, with new vocabulary covered, and then a discussion afterward to enhance a students comprehension and understanding of written as well as spoken thai. The thai conversational class is taught primarily in thai and very little english is used, so it is a class where a previous grasp of thai vocabulary, thai grammar structure as well as reading/speaking thai beforehand is a necessity. (This is the one I’m thinking of trying to improve my poorly accented spoken thai and listening skills).

The teachers speak good english and can quite easily explain the inz & outz of the thai language. The rooms are bright, airy, and have white boards (which the teachers can actually write on to facilitate learning (as opposed to a school which shall remain nameless where writing on a white board is heavily discouraged by management ).

Quite honestly what impressed me about this school the most was; the openness of the owner to explain the varying classes, what was taught in them, and her willingness to let me peruse the schools lesson books. And by lesson books I mean LESSON BOOKS; this school has more lesson books for every level, for every specialized class, than any school I’ve toured, and they are all really quite good. One only need look at their website to see the variety of standard courses offered as well as the specialty ones for specific thai language needs.

Their pricing is in line with other private thai language schools as far as the year long ED visa course; 25,000 Baht for a year’s study and they also offer a 12,500 baht for 6 month’s study program for people not wanting to commit to a year. (I believe they have a currently running promotion on their website about this.)

The other classes they offer are similarly structured to ones offered at Unity, Pro, etc; in that they run about a month and are 50-60 hours of study for 3 or 4 hours a day 5 days a week. These are also priced in line with this type of class in other schools. As these are group classes if you’re the only one who’s signed up, you’re gonna wait until enough people do sign up to make it cost effective for the school to teach these classes, (just like the other previously named schools do).

In speaking with the owner about the disparity between the methodology between the Asok and PhayaThai branches as referenced in another post on this forum; I found that the branch at PhayaThai is trying an immersion based method to cater more to students who don’t speak english as a first language enough to ask questions, etc, and is taught primarily in thai language only format. They are trying to gauge the efficacy in that method of teaching thai.

All in all I thought this school was a well laid out, well thought out, with a professional staff and engaging teachers. (I ask anyone reading this if they are interested in attending a sample lesson of the thai reading/conversation class with me please drop me a P/M and we can try to set it up).

As always I urge anyone contemplating attending a thai language school to go visit as many as you can, and attend as many free lessons as you can BEFORE you pay your tuition money. What I may think is the cat’s meow as far as a school and/or its methodology, you might try it and think it totally bites. What works for me may or may not work for you giving different people learn differently. Please do your due diligence BEFORE paying for a school, don’t bitch, piss & moan afterwards because you didn’t.

[jayjay2001]

I haven't been to this forum for quite some time, and see some critical reviews of the Walen school in Pattaya. While I do not wish to negate or diminsh other posters' reviews of this school, I'd like to say that I found the school in Pattaya to be a very good one. Almost a year ago, I posted a message about my experience in the Walen school in Bangkok, which very critical about some of the teachers there (and I feel appropriately and justifiably so). My post also included praise for some of the other teachers there. I had then moved to Pattaya and took some lessons at the Walen school in Pattaya, while concurrently taking lessons at Pro Language school. Because I found the Walen Pattaya school to be a very good one in terms of teachers, facilities, and overall good atmosphere, I felt it important to post a positive post about my Walen experience in Pattaya. Because I was concurrently taking lessons at Pro language (who had processed my Ed visa), I didn't continue with Walen due to time constraints (that is, I didn't have the time to attend both schools). (Fortunately, the Walen school is kind enough to allow me to finish my unused lessons at a later date.)

Now, my 1 year ED visa is finishing up with Pro Language. While Pro Language has been a very good school for me, I plan on switching over to Walen in Pattaya for my 2nd year ED visa and learning of Thai. I am making the switch for the following reasons:

1) I want to see how the learning experience differs, e.g., motivation, how quickly and/or comprehensively I learn, etc.

2) A huge plus for me at Walen's Pattaya location is how nice the facilities are, e.g., airy rooms, clean bathrooms, internet use in the front office, and spacious enough classrooms. For me, good facilities make a difference.

3) Also, I've been mobile in Thailand, and like the option of moving and being able to transfer my classes to a new location (like I was able to do with Pro Language moving from Bangkok to Pattaya). Walen currently has 3 locations, is working on a 4th in Phuket, and has a potential option of taking classes online through Skype (which i think is very cool and customer oriented).

I wouldn't even consider switching to the Walen school in Pattaya if it hadn't made a very positive impression on me.

Now, I can't yet speak about the method of Walen vs other schools, because I haven't experienced it enough to do so. But, after switching to Walen next month, I will eventually find out if it is a method that works for me or not.

Just my 2 cents about the Walen school in Pattaya.

JJ

[MacWalen]

jayjay2001, thanks for your post. Just a small correction, we have at the moment 4 locations not 3, 2 in Bangkok (Sukhumvit and Ladprao), Pattaya and Chiangmai. Phuket will be our 5th location.

Walen School - Phuket coming soon

www.thaiwalen.com

For priority service please register

www.dcs.walenschool.com/1mw290910.eng

Edited February 28, 2011 by macwalen

[Tod Daniels]

SCHOOL REVIEW: Walen School of Thai

SORRY FOR ANOTHER LONG POST (readers please bear with me and my overly verbose writing style )

As readers may or may not know; I’ve spent more than a fair amount of time reviewing the various and sundry thai language schools which populate Bangkok.

1) being retired I am bored stiff living here

but more importantly;

2) I sincerely WANT to learn the thai language

I feel I would be remiss in my reporting if I didn’t include a review about the all too well known; Walen School of Thai;

http://www.thaiwalen.com/

I DID attend this school for a year, but it was back when Mac had just started getting his thai language program going, so it’s been a while, and my information about the school may be slightly out of date.

I have said repeatedly my own observations of thai language schools show few if any new innovations in the field of teaching the thai language to foreigners.

Most thai schools use a combination of phonemic transcription (using a combination of the english alphabet and other marks to spell and denote toning in thai words) This is often referred to as the "karaoke thai method". Depending on the school, students are exposed to the written thai language at different stages in their learning. I believe the reason most schools concentrate on this methodology in teaching thai; is that a great many of the existing schools are derivatives of the original Unity Thai teaching method, (some are even using the original Unity text books with their language school’s name on the cover instead). More than a few ‘founders’ of other language schools got their start by being teachers at Unity before leaving to open their own schools. In addition another somewhat valid reason for teaching the “karaoke method” is that most students CAN read english, so they seem to start speaking thai relatively quickly in class. This gives a student a high degree of ‘bang-4-the-baht’ in terms of accomplishing language learning.

Quite simply; learning to read thai with ANY degree of proficiency takes MANY hours, and requires the memorization of hundreds if not thousands of commonly used thai words, word combinations (which may or may not carry the same meaning as the individual words) as well as idiomatic expressions. I have met MANY students who knew every pronunciation/toning rule in the thai language and could pronounce words FAR better than I can, BUT had abso-tively posi-lutely NO idea what they were reading. (Sorry but that to me just ain't reading thai).

This “front loading” of learning to read thai FIRST in a class environment does not leave the student with the previously explained ‘bang-4-the-baht’ or a warm/fuzzy feeling early on. They are not speaking, are struggling to master an alphabetic system that is very dissimilar from english, and it can result in a discouraged student. If a student feels they are not learning, believe me they aren’t; because learning anything, first and foremost has to hold someone’s attention to be retained.

Anyway, as far as I know there are only two schools using different methods than “karaoke thai”. One is AUA and their ALG (automatic language growth) method, and the other is the Walen School of Thai.

My posting penchant about mac’s school is no secret to any reader on this forum . I will admit he has my admiration for his savvy business acumen, his shrewd marketing skills, and his total domination in the previously untapped area of ED visas for foreigners to learn thai. He has also been instrumental in driving overall tuition costs down as well (a plus for students).

In his defense he most certainly undertook a very difficult, time consuming route to break into the teaching thai arena. He could have quite easily gotten a hold of the myriad of thai schools text books floating around at the various copy shops, and simply pasted his name on the cover, BUT HE DIDN’T.

Instead, he took an existing method to teach english to foreigners the Callan Method; rewrote, reformatted and reworked it into the same concept for teaching thai to foreigners. Unless I am mistaken; the Callan Method goes under the assumption that people don’t learn to read ANY language letter by letter but by training your brain to recognize groups or blocks of letters as words, with the corresponding translation and/or meaning being flagged in your brain when you see that specific block of letters in a sentence.

The Walen material is ONLY in thai with direct english translations, there is no karaoke thai/engrish used. The format is question and answer. Vocabulary words are introduced throughout the lessons, spelled by the teachers, the spelling is repeated by the class, and then the teacher reads a question in thai. The students follow along in the book the best they can (often times writing what they hear spoken above the word to try to retain it in their minds). Even if the student knows NO thai, the teacher coaches the appropriate response (sometimes word by word) from them as they go around the classroom.

The discernment of individual words is made easier by the fact that the first two books have the thai words spaced out to make it easier to “see” the words as opposed to ‘normal thai’ not having spaces between the words (something that early learners of the thai language find very daunting indeed). This method is NOT without a fairly steep learning curve. While attending class I watched all too many students attend religiously for a few months then either wash out or start coming to class on a much less rigorous basis.

The class structure is such that the books are repeated again, and again, until a student has developed proficiency in one book to progress to the next level. As the classes run continually with new students entering an existing class where older students may have repeated the book 5-10 times previously, there is a marked difference in students’ abilities in reading. Sometimes a new student enters class only to find out they are already on page 89 of the book. However new students do have the choice when starting to wait until an existing class they wish to enroll in gets back to page one, thus starting at the beginning.

The class format is “round robin” (the teacher reading one question, a student reading the response) rotating to the next question for the next student. Sometimes groups of vocabulary words are introduced in a single question/answer sentence, providing for only one student to speak them aloud in context, but still the ability to hear it is a plus.

The upside to his material as opposed to karaoke thai methods is; ANY thai who can read, can practice the book with you. In that aspect the textbooks are one of the easiest to use for doing outside the class review. In looking back at the vocabulary word choices, I found a small percentage to be low frequency usage and of marginal value in learning thai. However, I just reviewed ALL the vocabulary words in both book 1 and book 2 against a pinned thread on the language forum about the top 3000 thai words, and found for the most part, the vocabulary words he uses are in there.

ABOUT THE SCHOOL:

His office staff is pleasant, professional, and they certainly know how to process visa applications, extension paperwork, etc efficiently. (One would think this would be the case with nearly 2000+ ED visas issued so far). In the event of problems in paperwork, etc the staff does correct them quickly. Mac certainly does have the ED visa dealy down pretty much to a science on the paperwork end of things.

The teachers (when I attended school several years ago) were professional, genuinely interested in teaching thai to foreigners, and certainly making an effort to use a methodology they had never seen before. Again there was learning curve for new teachers in teaching this method, etc, but overall the teachers did catch on and follow the book. Sometimes a student would have a specific question about the “WHY does thai do it this way as opposed to my language?” and teachers would attempt to answer the question. This can be a double edged sword though, and too much time answering the ‘why’ or ‘how come’ questions can eat into valuable class time. I believe students are now encouraged to write down or hold their questions and ask them on breaks when the teacher can take more time in answering thus spending more time in class on learning.

I could read, fairly well (okay pretty good, alright marginally ) before attending class, and I will say my attendance there did more to increase my recognized thai word vocabulary than anything I’d tried before. However, due to the format of the class, the way lessons are laid out, and the way it is taught, I stand by my assertions that this is NOT a thai conversational course by ANY stretch of the imagination. Students are expected to put time into using the thai words they learn and combining them together to make their own sentences.

All in all; say what you will about mac and the Walen School (I know I do ), but he wasn’t afraid to try something new in the area of teaching thai to foreigners. This in and of itself cannot be faulted.

Value wise it was instrumental in compelling nearly every thai language school in the greater Bangkok area to match tuition rates on the yearly class. This school doesn’t offer the 50-60 hour month long classes like many other thai language schools do, although blocks of hours can be purchased if attending for a year is not what a student wants. The private lesson instruction is some of the most expensive around, right up there with Berlitz.

These are just my opinions and observations of the school. Sorry this post was so lengthy. I wanted to give an overview of his methodology, the perceived short-comings, the benefits, and just let everyone know for the record, what I got from attending his school.

FWIW, I made up my own notebook of every vocabulary word on one side of the page in thai with the corresponding english translation on the other with a flap that could hide the english to check your ability to know what a word means. I also made 3X5 flash cards of EVERY vocabulary word in both books with thai on one side and english on the other to review words, word by word, in different order, etc again to further my learning only. (ANY current Walen student who wants to use or borrow these resources please P/M me)

DISCLAIMER:

As always I urge anyone contemplating attending a thai language school to go visit as many as you can, and attend as many free lessons as you can BEFORE you pay your tuition money. What I may think is the cat’s meow as far as a school and/or its methodology, you might try it and think it totally bites. What works for me may or may not work for you giving different people learn differently. Please do your due diligence BEFORE paying for a school, don’t bitch, piss & moan afterwards because you didn’t.

[theoldgit]

Thanks for that review tod-daniels, very informative and helpful.

As a retiree to Thailand, who doesn't need need an Ed Visa, I have been trawling through this forum to try and find a school or tutor who would assist me in my quest to speak and understand Thai, and hopefully even read it. As a retiree I am probably not as quick a learner as some of the young people that I see outside these schools on their smoke breaks. I suspect some people need to learn Thai just for the visa.

I had been leaning towards Walen but I had been put off a bit by the spats between the owner, who is obviously protecting his school and some of his clients who feel let down.

Guess I will keep looking.

[Parvis]

I would "dispute" your comment that as a retiree you cannot learn a language as quickly as a younger person. There is solid information to prove this actually a "myth" - if anything the opposite may be true. If interested I can direct you to this scientific research.

However, your "attention span" often may suffer as you age - just as it does in young children. If you are aware of it you can "correct this deficiency". The most important to gain maximum benefit from a course will be:

1) Your motivation

2) Whether the classes are such that:

a) challenge you intellectually to keep your interest

you are willing to continue study at home

c) the class should consist of less than 5 individuals

My suggestion would be to for you to learn Thaiscript on your own - at home - before you begin a course - in particular at Walen - where only Thaiscript is used.

Edited February 4, 2010 by Parvis

[theoldgit]

Parvis

Whilst I take your point, I was not talking about retirees in general I was talking about me and I know my limits, and whilst I certainly wouldn't say I was thick, I am not as quick as I used to be and neither to I retain things as much as I used to. Whilst I appreciate your offer to direct me to scientific research, it would probably not help as I already know my limits.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

[Parvis]

Theoldgit - I should have added as probably the MOST important in learning anything is attitude. We tend to "classify" (even ourselves) to perceived values/charcteristics (often incorrectly) - and this in itself becomes the limiting factor in our ability to learn. The walls which we will find the most difficult - if not impossible - to climb are those constructed by ourselves.

Edited February 4, 2010 by Parvis