National Rifle Association Calls For Armed Guards In U S Schools

[Chicog]

Do you really think congress will finance a massive buy back and enforcement to get rid of 300 million guns when 42% of Americans are against it? The ATF will be extremely with their windfall if it ever happens.

The problem with a lot of you is that you're blaming the NRA for this and that, while ignoring the fact that a lot of Americans, almost half, are against gun control.

I think you are posting faster than you are reading.

I said:

Not being able to get rid of 300,000,000 guns is not an excuse to avoid starting to get rid of the first 1,000,000 most dangerous.

[gl555]

[There have been numerous cases of citizens with legal handguns who stopped a potential gun massacre by stopping the crazed individual. The liberal press never puts any of these incidents in their headlines so most people never read about them.

Background static. There have also been cases of students and tourists being murdered by overzealous gun owners who think everyone is out to rob them.

And there's George Zimmerman.

Alright here are just a few examples of potential massacres that were stopped because of an armed citizen.

– Mayan Palace Theater, San Antonio, Texas, this week: Jesus Manuel Garcia shoots at a movie theater, a police car and bystanders from the nearby China Garden restaurant; as he enters the movie theater, guns blazing, an armed off-duty cop shoots Garcia four times, stopping the attack. Total dead: Zero.

– Winnemucca, Nev., 2008: Ernesto Villagomez opens fire in a crowded restaurant; concealed-carry permit-holder shoots him dead. Total dead: Two

– Appalachian School of Law, 2002: Crazed immigrant shoots the dean and a professor, then begins shooting students; as he goes for more ammunition, two armed students point their guns at him, allowing a third to tackle him. Total dead: Three.

– Santee, Calif., 2001: Student begins shooting his classmates — as well as the “trained campus supervisor”; an off-duty cop who happened to be bringing his daughter to school that day points his gun at the shooter, holding him until more police arrive. Total dead: Two.

– Pearl High School, Mississippi, 1997: After shooting several people at his high school, student heads for the junior high school; assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieves a .45 pistol from his car and points it at the gunman’s head, ending the murder spree. Total dead: Two.

– Edinboro, Pa., 1998: A student shoots up a junior high school dance being held at a restaurant; restaurant owner pulls out his shotgun and stops the gunman. Total dead: One.

And the most recent which was virtually unreported. There are some interesting statistics and reports right at the end of the article also

http://www.google.co...355534169,d.bmk

God knows how many saved by these armed individuals.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Scott
Off-topic remark deleted

[gl555]

Do you really think congress will finance a massive buy back and enforcement to get rid of 300 million guns when 42% of Americans are against it? The ATF will be extremely with their windfall if it ever happens.

The problem with a lot of you is that you're blaming the NRA for this and that, while ignoring the fact that a lot of Americans, almost half, are against gun control.

I think you are posting faster than you are reading.

I said:

Not being able to get rid of 300,000,000 guns is not an excuse to avoid starting to get rid of the first 1,000,000 most dangerous.

Yeah I don't know about you but to most others 299 million guns is just as dangerous as 300 million guns in circulation.

But if getting rid of a million guns makes you anti gun people feel safe then please feel free to do so. Until the next school massacre.

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed. Please stay on-topic.

[BookMan]

[There have been numerous cases of citizens with legal handguns who stopped a potential gun massacre by stopping the crazed individual. The liberal press never puts any of these incidents in their headlines so most people never read about them.

Background static. There have also been cases of students and tourists being murdered by overzealous gun owners who think everyone is out to rob them.

And there's George Zimmerman.

Alright here are just a few examples of potential massacres that were stopped because of an armed citizen.

– Mayan Palace Theater, San Antonio, Texas, this week: Jesus Manuel Garcia shoots at a movie theater, a police car and bystanders from the nearby China Garden restaurant; as he enters the movie theater, guns blazing, an armed off-duty cop shoots Garcia four times, stopping the attack. Total dead: Zero.

– Winnemucca, Nev., 2008: Ernesto Villagomez opens fire in a crowded restaurant; concealed-carry permit-holder shoots him dead. Total dead: Two

– Appalachian School of Law, 2002: Crazed immigrant shoots the dean and a professor, then begins shooting students; as he goes for more ammunition, two armed students point their guns at him, allowing a third to tackle him. Total dead: Three.

– Santee, Calif., 2001: Student begins shooting his classmates — as well as the “trained campus supervisor”; an off-duty cop who happened to be bringing his daughter to school that day points his gun at the shooter, holding him until more police arrive. Total dead: Two.

– Pearl High School, Mississippi, 1997: After shooting several people at his high school, student heads for the junior high school; assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieves a .45 pistol from his car and points it at the gunman’s head, ending the murder spree. Total dead: Two.

– Edinboro, Pa., 1998: A student shoots up a junior high school dance being held at a restaurant; restaurant owner pulls out his shotgun and stops the gunman. Total dead: One.

And the most recent which was virtually unreported. There are some interesting statistics and reports right at the end of the article also

http://www.google.co...355534169,d.bmk

God knows how many saved by these armed individuals.

errr......somewhat faulty logic.

Gun ownership stops gun deaths?

surely the figures for gun deaths in America show that this is not the case.

[DocN]

[There have been numerous cases of citizens with legal handguns who stopped a potential gun massacre by stopping the crazed individual. The liberal press never puts any of these incidents in their headlines so most people never read about them.

Background static. There have also been cases of students and tourists being murdered by overzealous gun owners who think everyone is out to rob them.

And there's George Zimmerman.

Alright here are just a few examples of potential massacres that were stopped because of an armed citizen.

– Mayan Palace Theater, San Antonio, Texas, this week: Jesus Manuel Garcia shoots at a movie theater, a police car and bystanders from the nearby China Garden restaurant; as he enters the movie theater, guns blazing, an armed off-duty cop shoots Garcia four times, stopping the attack. Total dead: Zero.

– Winnemucca, Nev., 2008: Ernesto Villagomez opens fire in a crowded restaurant; concealed-carry permit-holder shoots him dead. Total dead: Two

– Appalachian School of Law, 2002: Crazed immigrant shoots the dean and a professor, then begins shooting students; as he goes for more ammunition, two armed students point their guns at him, allowing a third to tackle him. Total dead: Three.

– Santee, Calif., 2001: Student begins shooting his classmates — as well as the “trained campus supervisor”; an off-duty cop who happened to be bringing his daughter to school that day points his gun at the shooter, holding him until more police arrive. Total dead: Two.

– Pearl High School, Mississippi, 1997: After shooting several people at his high school, student heads for the junior high school; assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieves a .45 pistol from his car and points it at the gunman’s head, ending the murder spree. Total dead: Two.

– Edinboro, Pa., 1998: A student shoots up a junior high school dance being held at a restaurant; restaurant owner pulls out his shotgun and stops the gunman. Total dead: One.

And the most recent which was virtually unreported. There are some interesting statistics and reports right at the end of the article also

http://www.google.co...355534169,d.bmk

God knows how many saved by these armed individuals.

false logic: there were guns out there, to arm the shooters.

I guess, not all of them qualify as "mentally ill"- some were maybe law abiding citizens, who just snapped...

It is still a fact: the more gubs are in circulation, the more accidents and incidents will happen.

[Chicog]

Do you really think congress will finance a massive buy back and enforcement to get rid of 300 million guns when 42% of Americans are against it? The ATF will be extremely with their windfall if it ever happens.

The problem with a lot of you is that you're blaming the NRA for this and that, while ignoring the fact that a lot of Americans, almost half, are against gun control.

I think you are posting faster than you are reading.

I said:

Not being able to get rid of 300,000,000 guns is not an excuse to avoid starting to get rid of the first 1,000,000 most dangerous.

Yeah I don't know about you but to most others 299 million guns is just as dangerous as 300 million guns in circulation.

But if getting rid of a million guns makes you anti gun people feel safe then please feel free to do so. Until the next school massacre.

Your generalisations really don't do you justice.

I am saying there are a combinations of things that could/need to be done to *reduce* the risk of another nutcase going postal. If you read my post again I outlined other elements that could be tackled.

This is what Joe Biden's Task Force have been asked to produce.

You are the ones posting a few examples of the NRA-style "good guy" killing the NRA-style "bad guy", yet you don't seem to think that it's better if the bad guys can't get their hands on weapons that serve no purpose in urban civilian hands.

Seriously, do you not think there is *anything* that can be done to *reduce* the opportunities for crazies to slaughter multiple innocent victims, other than have more armed people to shoot them, with the inherent risks involved?

(And yes, the Joker in the dark theatre would be the perfect example - imagine every armed vigilante opening up in the dark on every muzzle flash he or she sees!).

[gl555]

[There have been numerous cases of citizens with legal handguns who stopped a potential gun massacre by stopping the crazed individual. The liberal press never puts any of these incidents in their headlines so most people never read about them.

Background static. There have also been cases of students and tourists being murdered by overzealous gun owners who think everyone is out to rob them.

And there's George Zimmerman.

Alright here are just a few examples of potential massacres that were stopped because of an armed citizen.

– Mayan Palace Theater, San Antonio, Texas, this week: Jesus Manuel Garcia shoots at a movie theater, a police car and bystanders from the nearby China Garden restaurant; as he enters the movie theater, guns blazing, an armed off-duty cop shoots Garcia four times, stopping the attack. Total dead: Zero.

– Winnemucca, Nev., 2008: Ernesto Villagomez opens fire in a crowded restaurant; concealed-carry permit-holder shoots him dead. Total dead: Two

– Appalachian School of Law, 2002: Crazed immigrant shoots the dean and a professor, then begins shooting students; as he goes for more ammunition, two armed students point their guns at him, allowing a third to tackle him. Total dead: Three.

– Santee, Calif., 2001: Student begins shooting his classmates — as well as the “trained campus supervisor”; an off-duty cop who happened to be bringing his daughter to school that day points his gun at the shooter, holding him until more police arrive. Total dead: Two.

– Pearl High School, Mississippi, 1997: After shooting several people at his high school, student heads for the junior high school; assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieves a .45 pistol from his car and points it at the gunman’s head, ending the murder spree. Total dead: Two.

– Edinboro, Pa., 1998: A student shoots up a junior high school dance being held at a restaurant; restaurant owner pulls out his shotgun and stops the gunman. Total dead: One.

And the most recent which was virtually unreported. There are some interesting statistics and reports right at the end of the article also

http://www.google.co...355534169,d.bmk

God knows how many saved by these armed individuals.

false logic: there were guns out there, to arm the shooters.

I guess, not all of them qualify as "mentally ill"- some were maybe law abiding citizens, who just snapped...

It is still a fact: the more gubs are in circulation, the more accidents and incidents will happen.

Do you even know what's going on? Of course there were guns out there to arm the shooters! 300 million of them! Criminals and crazies will be able to have access to these 300 million guns illegally. So why shouldn't citizens like the heroes I mentioned have access to guns legally?

You anti gun people always seem to ignore the 300 million guns already in circulation and how easy it is for a criminal to get access to one. Banning people from legally getting guns now won't stop the criminals and crazies from being able to get an illegal gun.

[gl555]

[There have been numerous cases of citizens with legal handguns who stopped a potential gun massacre by stopping the crazed individual. The liberal press never puts any of these incidents in their headlines so most people never read about them.

Background static. There have also been cases of students and tourists being murdered by overzealous gun owners who think everyone is out to rob them.

And there's George Zimmerman.

Alright here are just a few examples of potential massacres that were stopped because of an armed citizen.

– Mayan Palace Theater, San Antonio, Texas, this week: Jesus Manuel Garcia shoots at a movie theater, a police car and bystanders from the nearby China Garden restaurant; as he enters the movie theater, guns blazing, an armed off-duty cop shoots Garcia four times, stopping the attack. Total dead: Zero.

– Winnemucca, Nev., 2008: Ernesto Villagomez opens fire in a crowded restaurant; concealed-carry permit-holder shoots him dead. Total dead: Two

– Appalachian School of Law, 2002: Crazed immigrant shoots the dean and a professor, then begins shooting students; as he goes for more ammunition, two armed students point their guns at him, allowing a third to tackle him. Total dead: Three.

– Santee, Calif., 2001: Student begins shooting his classmates — as well as the “trained campus supervisor”; an off-duty cop who happened to be bringing his daughter to school that day points his gun at the shooter, holding him until more police arrive. Total dead: Two.

– Pearl High School, Mississippi, 1997: After shooting several people at his high school, student heads for the junior high school; assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieves a .45 pistol from his car and points it at the gunman’s head, ending the murder spree. Total dead: Two.

– Edinboro, Pa., 1998: A student shoots up a junior high school dance being held at a restaurant; restaurant owner pulls out his shotgun and stops the gunman. Total dead: One.

And the most recent which was virtually unreported. There are some interesting statistics and reports right at the end of the article also

http://www.google.co...355534169,d.bmk

God knows how many saved by these armed individuals.

errr......somewhat faulty logic.

Gun ownership stops gun deaths?

surely the figures for gun deaths in America show that this is not the case.

300 million guns in circulation. Easy access for criminals to get guns illegally. So yeah, gun ownership stops death.

[Chicog]

In the majority of school shootings, the perpetrators were male and used legally obtained guns. Doesn't that bother you?

But repeating what I've said - that I agree gun control on its own is not the answer - I offer this piece from a mother who raises some crucial points:

http://thebluereview.org/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother/

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted.

[gl555]

Your generalisations really don't do you justice.

I am saying there are a combinations of things that could/need to be done to *reduce* the risk of another nutcase going postal. If you read my post again I outlined other elements that could be tackled.

This is what Joe Biden's Task Force have been asked to produce.

You are the ones posting a few examples of the NRA-style "good guy" killing the NRA-style "bad guy", yet you don't seem to think that it's better if the bad guys can't get their hands on weapons that serve no purpose in urban civilian hands.

Seriously, do you not think there is *anything* that can be done to *reduce* the opportunities for crazies to slaughter multiple innocent victims, other than have more armed people to shoot them, with the inherent risks involved?

(And yes, the Joker in the dark theatre would be the perfect example - imagine every armed vigilante opening up in the dark on every muzzle flash he or she sees!).

At the moment, I can't think of anything to minimise such opportunities of these people, short of arming the teachers and armed guards.

If a crazy wants access to a gun, he can get one illegally. The Sandy Hook killer was prevented from buying a gun legally but he still managed to kill his mother and steal her's. If his mom didn't have guns, he would have found some other way to get access to one of the 300 million guns out there.

[BookMan]

errr......somewhat faulty logic.

Gun ownership stops gun deaths?

surely the figures for gun deaths in America show that this is not the case.

300 million guns in circulation. Easy access for criminals to get guns illegally. So yeah, gun ownership stops death.

So, again, by your logic...

Having 300 million guns means lots of guns and easy access for criminals because of the sheer volume of guns?

Therefore, you can reduce the guns from 300 million to zero and then criminals will not be able to have easy access to guns because there aren't any.

If you keep increasing the total amount of guns in circulation you must be providing more easy access for criminals

[gl555]

In the majority of school shootings, the perpetrators were male and used legally obtained guns. Doesn't that bother you?

But repeating what I've said - that I agree gun control on its own is not the answer - I offer this piece from a mother who raises some crucial points:

http://thebluereview...-lanzas-mother/

As I have already said, the majority of spree and serial killers are men.

The majority of school killers did NOT get their guns legally. The Sandy Hook killer murdered his mother and stole her's. And as I recall, the Columbine and Virginia Tech killers bought their guns illegally and thru loop holes.

[DocN]

gl55 said:

"Do you even know what's going on? Of course there were guns out there to arm the shooters! 300 million of them! Criminals and crazies will be able to have access to these 300 million guns illegally. So why shouldn't citizens like the heroes I mentioned have access to guns legally?

You anti gun people always seem to ignore the 300 million guns already in circulation and how easy it is for a criminal to get access to one. Banning people from legally getting guns now won't stop the criminals and crazies from being able to get an illegal gun."

Yes, I know that!

So your logic is : 300 Million guns= don't do anything or make it 301 million or more.

And by the way: no, it won't stop them!

But it will make it HARDER if there ain't at least one in every household!

Less guns out there= less guns in the hands of nutjob killers!

Again: it is called logic!

[DocN]

In the majority of school shootings, the perpetrators were male and used legally obtained guns. Doesn't that bother you?

But repeating what I've said - that I agree gun control on its own is not the answer - I offer this piece from a mother who raises some crucial points:

http://thebluereview...-lanzas-mother/

As I have already said, the majority of spree and serial killers are men.

The majority of school killers did NOT get their guns legally. The Sandy Hook killer murdered his mother and stole her's. And as I recall, the Columbine and Virginia Tech killers bought their guns illegally and thru loop holes.

Nobody said the shooters obtained them legally!

[gl555]

gl55 said:

"Do you even know what's going on? Of course there were guns out there to arm the shooters! 300 million of them! Criminals and crazies will be able to have access to these 300 million guns illegally. So why shouldn't citizens like the heroes I mentioned have access to guns legally?

You anti gun people always seem to ignore the 300 million guns already in circulation and how easy it is for a criminal to get access to one. Banning people from legally getting guns now won't stop the criminals and crazies from being able to get an illegal gun."

Yes, I know that!

So your logic is : 300 Million guns= don't do anything or make it 301 million or more.

And by the way: no, it won't stop them!

But it will make it HARDER if there ain't at least one in every household!

Less guns out there= less guns in the hands of nutjob killers!

Again: it is called logic!

If with 300 million guns out there, you can already very easily get one illegally, what difference does 301 million or 310 million for that matter make? If the nutjob killers can easily get an illegal gun out there, then the citizens should be able to get one legally as well. It's simple as that.

[gl555]

In the majority of school shootings, the perpetrators were male and used legally obtained guns. Doesn't that bother you?

But repeating what I've said - that I agree gun control on its own is not the answer - I offer this piece from a mother who raises some crucial points:

http://thebluereview...-lanzas-mother/

As I have already said, the majority of spree and serial killers are men.

The majority of school killers did NOT get their guns legally. The Sandy Hook killer murdered his mother and stole her's. And as I recall, the Columbine and Virginia Tech killers bought their guns illegally and thru loop holes.

Nobody said the shooters obtained them legally!

"In the majority of school shootings, the perpetrators were male and used legally obtained guns. Doesn't that bother you?"

Yeah he did.

[Chicog]

In the majority of school shootings, the perpetrators were male and used legally obtained guns. Doesn't that bother you?

But repeating what I've said - that I agree gun control on its own is not the answer - I offer this piece from a mother who raises some crucial points:

http://thebluereview...-lanzas-mother/

As I have already said, the majority of spree and serial killers are men.

The majority of school killers did NOT get their guns legally. The Sandy Hook killer murdered his mother and stole her's. And as I recall, the Columbine and Virginia Tech killers bought their guns illegally and thru loop holes.

I said legally obtained guns, not guns they had obtained illegally.

Had he not had access to his mothers' arsenal, it would have been more difficult to arm himself so easily. Surely you can't deny that?

[gl555]

In the majority of school shootings, the perpetrators were male and used legally obtained guns. Doesn't that bother you?

But repeating what I've said - that I agree gun control on its own is not the answer - I offer this piece from a mother who raises some crucial points:

http://thebluereview...-lanzas-mother/

As I have already said, the majority of spree and serial killers are men.

The majority of school killers did NOT get their guns legally. The Sandy Hook killer murdered his mother and stole her's. And as I recall, the Columbine and Virginia Tech killers bought their guns illegally and thru loop holes.

I said legally obtained guns, not guns they had obtained illegally.

Had he not had access to his mothers' arsenal, it would have been more difficult to arm himself so easily. Surely you can't deny that?

I already said. Even if his mommy didn't possess weapons, with 300 million guns out there, he would have gotten it from somewhere else.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted. Please stay on the topic.

[F430murci]

I'd like one of you who is against gun ownership to rationally articulate your plan on how to remove 300,000,000 guns from the hands of Americans.

Please, in a thousand words or less, tell us.

I see many people and organizations (the Economist most recently, advocating repealling the 2nd amendment) spouting off against guns, rabidly in many cases, but no one has set forth a plan on how to remove all those guns from private hands.

Anyone here volunteering to go door-to-door?

Four words:

Australian gun buyback programme

http://en.wikipedia....am#In_Australia

Buy back 300 MIILLION guns? Do the math, Samran.

And, what about those who don't want to sell? Got three more words for them?

It is a start and over time may be more effective than you realize.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/12/los-angeles-gun-buyback-1.html

"More than 575 guns had been collected by mid-day Wednesday in L.A.'s gun buyback, as people waited for up to two hours to turn over firearms -- no questions asked -- in exchange for gift cards.

While police say the bulk of the guns are "mom and pop guns" -- hunting rifles and shotguns -- the haul includes a handful of larger-scale weapons, including at least 15 assault rifles.

At the Van Nuys buyback station -- one of two in the city of Los Angeles -- one of the first guns to be collected was a Bushmaster rifle that was the same type used at this month's massacre at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn.

Other guns collected included semiautomatic handguns typically associated with gang violence and street crime."

[Mosha]

I'd like one of you who is against gun ownership to rationally articulate your plan on how to remove 300,000,000 guns from the hands of Americans.

Please, in a thousand words or less, tell us.

I see many people and organizations (the Economist most recently, advocating repealling the 2nd amendment) spouting off against guns, rabidly in many cases, but no one has set forth a plan on how to remove all those guns from private hands.

Anyone here volunteering to go door-to-door?

Four words:

Australian gun buyback programme

http://en.wikipedia....am#In_Australia

This reduced the chance of being killed by gunshot by 50%.

[DocN]

In guys like gl555 we are dealing with believers!

They already made their mind up, there is no chance in heaven or hell, that they would ever even consider there is another way.

That is even worse than the NRA, who - I assume- are mostly in it for the money!

By the way: 700.000 US citizens petitioned for a deportation of Pirece Morgan, because his "attacks" on "gunners" may have been an "attack" on the US constitution.

As much as I believe the man is a c$%# and I have no sympathy for him at all: talking about "taking your freedom and your rights away, ey?! What about the "freedom of speech"? Hippie stuff! Surely not as important as the "right to own guns"!

>shaking my head in disbelieve<

[gl555]

In guys like gl555 we are dealing with believers!

They already made their mind up, there is no chance in heaven or hell, that they would ever even consider there is another way.

That is even worse than the NRA, who - I assume- are mostly in it for the money!

By the way: 700.000 US citizens petitioned for a deportation of Pirece Morgan, because his "attacks" on "gunners" may have been an "attack" on the US constitution.

As much as I believe the man is a c$%# and I have no sympathy for him at all: talking about "taking your freedom and your rights away, ey?! What about the "freedom of speech"? Hippie stuff! Surely not as important as the "right to own guns"!

>shaking my head in disbelieve<

There is a choice. And that choice is to totally ban guns in America. If the government has the will to do it and comes up with a comprehensive way to get rid of the 300 million guns out there then I'm all for it.

Until then, all these half measures gun control have been and will be failures. Criminals and crazies still have easy access to illegal guns. I'm not one of the 2nd Amendment extremists but I do believe if a criminal can get a gun easily thru illegal means then a citizen should be able to do the same legally to protect himself.

Why don't you accept the fact that 42% of the Americans polled are all for guns and against gun control? That's almost half of America. Just because they don't agree with you, you shake your head in disbelief? Get real.

[maidu]

Restricting gun ownership may lessen cruel shootings but won't eradicate them. Take two houses, each has a bunch of rowdy kids. One has a can of bug spray in the garage, the other has 700 cans of bug spray located all over the house. Which house will get more sprayings?

[There have been numerous cases of citizens with legal handguns who stopped a potential gun massacre by stopping the crazed individual. The liberal press never puts any of these incidents in their headlines so most people never read about them.

Background static. There have also been cases of students and tourists being murdered by overzealous gun owners who think everyone is out to rob them.

And there's George Zimmerman.

Alright here are just a few examples of potential massacres that were stopped because of an armed citizen.

– Mayan Palace Theater, San Antonio, Texas, this week: Jesus Manuel Garcia shoots at a movie theater, a police car and bystanders from the nearby China Garden restaurant; as he enters the movie theater, guns blazing, an armed off-duty cop shoots Garcia four times, stopping the attack. Total dead: Zero.

– Winnemucca, Nev., 2008: Ernesto Villagomez opens fire in a crowded restaurant; concealed-carry permit-holder shoots him dead. Total dead: Two

– Appalachian School of Law, 2002: Crazed immigrant shoots the dean and a professor, then begins shooting students; as he goes for more ammunition, two armed students point their guns at him, allowing a third to tackle him. Total dead: Three.

– Santee, Calif., 2001: Student begins shooting his classmates — as well as the “trained campus supervisor”; an off-duty cop who happened to be bringing his daughter to school that day points his gun at the shooter, holding him until more police arrive. Total dead: Two.

– Pearl High School, Mississippi, 1997: After shooting several people at his high school, student heads for the junior high school; assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieves a .45 pistol from his car and points it at the gunman’s head, ending the murder spree. Total dead: Two.

– Edinboro, Pa., 1998: A student shoots up a junior high school dance being held at a restaurant; restaurant owner pulls out his shotgun and stops the gunman. Total dead: One.

And the most recent which was virtually unreported. There are some interesting statistics and reports right at the end of the article also

http://www.google.co...355534169,d.bmk

God knows how many saved by these armed individuals.

It's interesting to read some that gun users were able to thwart some harm. I don't dispute it. In the bigger picture, there are too many people on the planet. A finite living space (our planet) cannot sustain an ever-increasing population of any species, let alone ours - which is most harmful (to other species) of any known, unless you count the first algae blooms which emitted oxygen, 3 million years ago.

Whether by design of happenstance, there will have to be corrections/lessening of human populations. AIDS and other pathogens, natural calamities (tsunamis, volcanos, etc). Man-made problems (severe smog, toxins, etc), will take their toll. Deaths from guns in the US can be compared to deaths caused by Muslim extremists: in the sense that they're symptoms of groups of fixated people enchanted by firearms, and they both put a dent in overpopulation.

[DocN]

In guys like gl555 we are dealing with believers!

They already made their mind up, there is no chance in heaven or hell, that they would ever even consider there is another way.

That is even worse than the NRA, who - I assume- are mostly in it for the money!

By the way: 700.000 US citizens petitioned for a deportation of Pirece Morgan, because his "attacks" on "gunners" may have been an "attack" on the US constitution.

As much as I believe the man is a c$%# and I have no sympathy for him at all: talking about "taking your freedom and your rights away, ey?! What about the "freedom of speech"? Hippie stuff! Surely not as important as the "right to own guns"!

>shaking my head in disbelieve<

There is a choice. And that choice is to totally ban guns in America. If the government has the will to do it and comes up with a comprehensive way to get rid of the 300 million guns out there then I'm all for it.

Until then, all these half measures gun control have been and will be failures. Criminals and crazies still have easy access to illegal guns. I'm not one of the 2nd Amendment extremists but I do believe if a criminal can get a gun easily thru illegal means then a citizen should be able to do the same legally to protect himself.

Why don't you accept the fact that 42% of the Americans polled are all for guns and against gun control? That's almost half of America. Just because they don't agree with you, you shake your head in disbelief? Get real.

So...okay...this is the first time, I hear you say "Total ban? okay!". That goes way further than I would go, because I believe, buy- back, stricter laws, stringent background- checks and EDUCATION would be enough to bring down gun- crimes and gun- accidents a lot.

But you are still with that "there are 300 Million guns out there, so...nothing will work"- point!

By that logic, why have laws on alcohol? Cigarettes? Drugs? They are even more "out there", but no one would agree that alcohol should be sold to 16 year olds! They will get it, if they want...so why prohibit that?

It just makes no sense to say "The problem is big...so don't touch it!"

The fact that 42% are totally pro- gun doesn't make them right, by the way!

[gl555]

Restricting gun ownership may lessen cruel shootings but won't eradicate them. Take two houses, each has a bunch of rowdy kids. One has a can of bug spray in the garage, the other has 700 cans of bug spray located all over the house. Which house will get more sprayings?

[There have been numerous cases of citizens with legal handguns who stopped a potential gun massacre by stopping the crazed individual. The liberal press never puts any of these incidents in their headlines so most people never read about them.

Background static. There have also been cases of students and tourists being murdered by overzealous gun owners who think everyone is out to rob them.

And there's George Zimmerman.

Alright here are just a few examples of potential massacres that were stopped because of an armed citizen.

– Mayan Palace Theater, San Antonio, Texas, this week: Jesus Manuel Garcia shoots at a movie theater, a police car and bystanders from the nearby China Garden restaurant; as he enters the movie theater, guns blazing, an armed off-duty cop shoots Garcia four times, stopping the attack. Total dead: Zero.

– Winnemucca, Nev., 2008: Ernesto Villagomez opens fire in a crowded restaurant; concealed-carry permit-holder shoots him dead. Total dead: Two

– Appalachian School of Law, 2002: Crazed immigrant shoots the dean and a professor, then begins shooting students; as he goes for more ammunition, two armed students point their guns at him, allowing a third to tackle him. Total dead: Three.

– Santee, Calif., 2001: Student begins shooting his classmates — as well as the “trained campus supervisor”; an off-duty cop who happened to be bringing his daughter to school that day points his gun at the shooter, holding him until more police arrive. Total dead: Two.

– Pearl High School, Mississippi, 1997: After shooting several people at his high school, student heads for the junior high school; assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieves a .45 pistol from his car and points it at the gunman’s head, ending the murder spree. Total dead: Two.

– Edinboro, Pa., 1998: A student shoots up a junior high school dance being held at a restaurant; restaurant owner pulls out his shotgun and stops the gunman. Total dead: One.

And the most recent which was virtually unreported. There are some interesting statistics and reports right at the end of the article also

http://www.google.co...355534169,d.bmk

God knows how many saved by these armed individuals.

It's interesting to read some that gun users were able to thwart some harm. I don't dispute it. In the bigger picture, there are too many people on the planet. A finite living space (our planet) cannot sustain an ever-increasing population of any species, let alone ours - which is most harmful (to other species) of any known, unless you count the first algae blooms which emitted oxygen, 3 million years ago.

Whether by design of happenstance, there will have to be corrections/lessening of human populations. AIDS and other pathogens, natural calamities (tsunamis, volcanos, etc). Man-made problems (severe smog, toxins, etc), will take their toll. Deaths from guns in the US can be compared to deaths caused by Muslim extremists: in the sense that they're symptoms of groups of fixated people enchanted by firearms, and they both put a dent in overpopulation.

"in the sense that they're symptoms of groups of fixated people enchanted by firearms, and they both put a dent in overpopulation."

Perhaps. But I believe that as long as there are so many guns out there anyway, more lives would be lost if the good guys cannot arm themselves to defend against the criminals and crazies.

[gl555]

In guys like gl555 we are dealing with believers!

They already made their mind up, there is no chance in heaven or hell, that they would ever even consider there is another way.

That is even worse than the NRA, who - I assume- are mostly in it for the money!

By the way: 700.000 US citizens petitioned for a deportation of Pirece Morgan, because his "attacks" on "gunners" may have been an "attack" on the US constitution.

As much as I believe the man is a c$%# and I have no sympathy for him at all: talking about "taking your freedom and your rights away, ey?! What about the "freedom of speech"? Hippie stuff! Surely not as important as the "right to own guns"!

>shaking my head in disbelieve<

There is a choice. And that choice is to totally ban guns in America. If the government has the will to do it and comes up with a comprehensive way to get rid of the 300 million guns out there then I'm all for it.

Until then, all these half measures gun control have been and will be failures. Criminals and crazies still have easy access to illegal guns. I'm not one of the 2nd Amendment extremists but I do believe if a criminal can get a gun easily thru illegal means then a citizen should be able to do the same legally to protect himself.

Why don't you accept the fact that 42% of the Americans polled are all for guns and against gun control? That's almost half of America. Just because they don't agree with you, you shake your head in disbelief? Get real.

So...okay...this is the first time, I hear you say "Total ban? okay!". That goes way further than I would go, because I believe, buy- back, stricter laws, stringent background- checks and EDUCATION would be enough to bring down gun- crimes and gun- accidents a lot.

But you are still with that "there are 300 Million guns out there, so...nothing will work"- point!

By that logic, why have laws on alcohol? Cigarettes? Drugs? They are even more "out there", but no one would agree that alcohol should be sold to 16 year olds! They will get it, if they want...so why prohibit that?

It just makes no sense to say "The problem is big...so don't touch it!"

The fact that 42% are totally pro- gun doesn't make them right, by the way!

In Chicago, where a couple of years back the Supreme Court quashed a 28 year old gun ban, had during the ban years, one of the highest handgun murder rate in the country. You would think banning guns would actually lower the firearm murder rate but no, studies show that violent crimes and firearm murders in Chicago actually INCREASED while the gun ban was in effect. A study this year shows crime rates DROPPING after the harsh gun ban was quashed. This kinda pokes hole in the theory that gun control works doesn't it?

So you see, whatever stricter gun laws you may want will never work because there are already too many guns out there.

And just because you think the 42% are wrong, doesn't mean they are. And it sure as hell doesn't mean you anti gun people are right.

Edited December 27, 2012 by gl555

[F430murci]

In guys like gl555 we are dealing with believers!

They already made their mind up, there is no chance in heaven or hell, that they would ever even consider there is another way.

That is even worse than the NRA, who - I assume- are mostly in it for the money!

By the way: 700.000 US citizens petitioned for a deportation of Pirece Morgan, because his "attacks" on "gunners" may have been an "attack" on the US constitution.

As much as I believe the man is a c$%# and I have no sympathy for him at all: talking about "taking your freedom and your rights away, ey?! What about the "freedom of speech"? Hippie stuff! Surely not as important as the "right to own guns"!

>shaking my head in disbelieve<

There is a choice. And that choice is to totally ban guns in America. If the government has the will to do it and comes up with a comprehensive way to get rid of the 300 million guns out there then I'm all for it.

Until then, all these half measures gun control have been and will be failures. Criminals and crazies still have easy access to illegal guns. I'm not one of the 2nd Amendment extremists but I do believe if a criminal can get a gun easily thru illegal means then a citizen should be able to do the same legally to protect himself.

Why don't you accept the fact that 42% of the Americans polled are all for guns and against gun control? That's almost half of America. Just because they don't agree with you, you shake your head in disbelief? Get real.

So...okay...this is the first time, I hear you say "Total ban? okay!". That goes way further than I would go, because I believe, buy- back, stricter laws, stringent background- checks and EDUCATION would be enough to bring down gun- crimes and gun- accidents a lot.

But you are still with that "there are 300 Million guns out there, so...nothing will work"- point!

By that logic, why have laws on alcohol? Cigarettes? Drugs? They are even more "out there", but no one would agree that alcohol should be sold to 16 year olds! They will get it, if they want...so why prohibit that?

It just makes no sense to say "The problem is big...so don't touch it!"

The fact that 42% are totally pro- gun doesn't make them right, by the way!

In Chicago, where a couple of years back the Supreme Court quashed a 28 year old gun ban, had during the ban years, one of the highest handgun murder rate in the country. You would think banning guns would actually lower the firearm murder rate but no, studies show that violent crimes and firearm murders in Chicago actually INCREASED while the gun ban was in effect. A study this year shows crime rates DROPPING after the harsh gun ban was quashed. This kinda pokes hole in the theory that gun control works doesn't it?

So you see, whatever stricter gun laws you may want will never work because there are already too many guns out there.

And just because you think the 42% are wrong, doesn't mean they are. And it sure as hell doesn't mean you anti gun people are right.

There you go again quoting a 42% figure for a completely ambiguous question that is clearly inconsistent with the follow up more poignant questions. 62% said in favor of BAN on assault weapons. 62 % said in favor of BAN on large capacity clips. I think it was around 90% that was in favor of registration. 74% of NRA members were in favor in certain gun control measures that I also quoted to you.

News flash, the above are ARE gun control measures (partial bans, background checks on ALL purchases and registration) so your 42% number you keep tossing around is completely inconsistent with reality and unambiguous questions. You are even inconsistent with NRA polls . . .

I don't think anyone on here in mainstream America wants shotgun and bolt action hunting rifles banned. Registration would be very effective if done like class III as it would put dealers as well as individuals in jail for transferring weapons to felons, domestic abusers and etc. Mandatory jail sentence, even if short, for possessing unregistered firearm will eventually work quiet well also.

No perfect solution, but accountability is a positive, not a negative as you guys view it.

Edited December 27, 2012 by F430murci