Quality Of Bikes Made In China

[VocalNeal]

I m sorry idiots. My galaxy note 2 is made in Korea and/or Vietnam.

And it is all about how something made in China. Under foreign supervision or rule or all made by Chinese? It makes a big difference as your pink chinese lover asses might not be aware.

As this is a general thread please don't all get sucked in by all this "Under foreign supervision" nonsense.

Consider some piece of Chinese crap and the salesman will be the first to tell you. Yes it is Chinese but built to a foreign design and under foreign supervision.

Usually it isn't. It is just made to a price. But if they keep saying it long enough, people will start to believe it.

Edited December 25, 2012 by VocalNeal

[jackcorbett]

A few months ago I bought a Nokia cell phone at Tuk Com. That thing was so unreliable friends could call me at the same table we were all sitting at and it wouldn't go off. So I took it back to a dealer stocking Nokia's and there I was informed it was Chinese. And it wasn't a Nokia licensed Chinese made phone. The reason they knew is that phone had features no Nokia had. I will blame this on 1. The Chinese for making and selling such a worthless piece of junk and 2. Those Thais who are supposedly responsible for keeping things legit at a supposedly legit computer and electronics center such as Tuc Com. So until Chinese motorcycle manufacturers compile an absolutely impeccable reputation for producing high quality bikes and they are backed by a network of dealerships that have earned a first rate reputation supporting such Chinese bikes, I'm going to be viewing Chinese bikes as tinker toys.

[Richard-BKK]

A few months ago I bought a Nokia cell phone at Tuk Com. That thing was so unreliable friends could call me at the same table we were all sitting at and it wouldn't go off. So I took it back to a dealer stocking Nokia's and there I was informed it was Chinese. And it wasn't a Nokia licensed Chinese made phone. The reason they knew is that phone had features no Nokia had. I will blame this on 1. The Chinese for making and selling such a worthless piece of junk and 2. Those Thais who are supposedly responsible for keeping things legit at a supposedly legit computer and electronics center such as Tuc Com. So until Chinese motorcycle manufacturers compile an absolutely impeccable reputation for producing high quality bikes and they are backed by a network of dealerships that have earned a first rate reputation supporting such Chinese bikes, I'm going to be viewing Chinese bikes as tinker toys.

Hahaha, somebody buys a fake phone and blames his own incompetence on a whole race of people. Nokia has a very detail website with all little models they sell, they not really sell my taste of phone but any normal person would first investigate before putting down some money.

With exception of a 499 THB telephone I bought for the son of our gardener, they packed it in Christmas paper and I have now no idea what brand or model it was... but for 499 THB it's more something like who cares...

Edited December 25, 2012 by Richard-BKK

[denkiblue555]

A few months ago I bought a Nokia cell phone at Tuk Com. That thing was so unreliable friends could call me at the same table we were all sitting at and it wouldn't go off. So I took it back to a dealer stocking Nokia's and there I was informed it was Chinese. And it wasn't a Nokia licensed Chinese made phone. The reason they knew is that phone had features no Nokia had. I will blame this on 1. The Chinese for making and selling such a worthless piece of junk and 2. Those Thais who are supposedly responsible for keeping things legit at a supposedly legit computer and electronics center such as Tuc Com. So until Chinese motorcycle manufacturers compile an absolutely impeccable reputation for producing high quality bikes and they are backed by a network of dealerships that have earned a first rate reputation supporting such Chinese bikes, I'm going to be viewing Chinese bikes as tinker toys.

Hahaha, somebody buys a fake phone and blames his own incompetence on a whole race of people. Nokia has a very detail website with all little models they sell, they not really sell my taste of phone but any normal person would first investigate before putting down some money.

With exception of a 499 THB telephone I bought for the son of our gardener, they packed it in Christmas paper and I have now no idea what brand or model it was... but for 499 THB it's more something like who cares...

Still doesn't change the fact that a certain race of people simply do not care about 'quality' - at least in the mechanical industries.

Textiles are different.

[BSJ]

As with all things "Caveat Emptor".

PS: A funny side note. All the people in China who I deal with, and some I don't deal with, all happened to send their xmas wishes to me on the 24th this year.

Is that ironic?

[jbrain]

I expect this same argument will apply to Jaguar and Landrover vehicles,now owned by Tata motors of India with manufacture being moved to mainland China for reasons of cost.

You shouldn't have said that

Jaguar Land Rover's Chinese subsidiary will recall 337 cars because of substandard fixings in their brakes and steering boxes, China's national product quality watchdog said on Tuesday.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jaguar-land-rovers-china-unit-124909701.html

[Richard-BKK]

I expect this same argument will apply to Jaguar and Landrover vehicles,now owned by Tata motors of India with manufacture being moved to mainland China for reasons of cost.

You shouldn't have said that

Jaguar Land Rover's Chinese subsidiary will recall 337 cars because of substandard fixings in their brakes and steering boxes, China's national product quality watchdog said on Tuesday.

http://finance.yahoo...-124909701.html

If recalls from car manufacturers are an indication of quality then you should look at GM (General Motors) they recalled more cars in 2012 than everybody else... http://www.nbcnews.com/business/gm-recalling-almost-474-000-cars-over-problem-gear-shift-1B6028546 or just search for it Google, I'm nearly sure GM America recalled nearly 1 million cars this year.

[jbrain]

I expect this same argument will apply to Jaguar and Landrover vehicles,now owned by Tata motors of India with manufacture being moved to mainland China for reasons of cost.

You shouldn't have said that

Jaguar Land Rover's Chinese subsidiary will recall 337 cars because of substandard fixings in their brakes and steering boxes, China's national product quality watchdog said on Tuesday.

http://finance.yahoo...-124909701.html

If recalls from car manufacturers are an indication of quality then you should look at GM (General Motors) they recalled more cars in 2012 than everybody else... http://www.nbcnews.c...shift-1B6028546 or just search for it Google, I'm nearly sure GM America recalled nearly 1 million cars this year.

Yes you're right, every respectable brand will have recalls.The difference however is that most of them are fro safety issues, a carpet which can slip under the throttle or another precautious improvement, but very rarely for using substandard materials.

nd when the Chinese watchdog already makes the issue public, then you can be sure that there is soon much more of the same nature to detect by foreign watchdogs.

[humblefalang]

stop comparing elevators and such

chinese bikes are have the worst reliability possible,

you may get 4-5 out of 100 that satisfies a customer

some actually look good i admit but they lack in

power

reliability

[BSJ]

CFMoto have released a 650 in Australia at half the price of a Er6n. But it's made in Taiwan I think.....but they are Chinese too, right???

[loserlazer]

I do not call Taiwan Chinese.

They produce quality products for decades.

Sym, Kymco these are good brands and are in the market for long time 60 and 50 years respectively.

They are ok.

But not cf moto as it is chinese!

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect App

[jbrain]

CFMoto have released a 650 in Australia at half the price of a Er6n. But it's made in Taiwan I think.....but they are Chinese too, right???

No idea regarding bikes, but for electronics Taiwan is a totally different ball game compared to China.

[BSJ]

I checked it today. Their website is Chinese. http://www.cfmoto.cn/

That 650 bagger looks like a good touring bike. Not to big, not to small.

Edited December 27, 2012 by BSJ

[wantan]

CFMoto have released a 650 in Australia at half the price of a Er6n. But it's made in Taiwan I think.....but they are Chinese too, right???

If you don't know where it comes from ... than its chinese for sure

I never heard of this brand. I guess its not available in Thailand.

http://www.cfmoto.cn/onroad/details.aspx?productId=31

Have a look at this high tech swingarm detail. All this and more for half the price

[Richard-BKK]

The CFMoto 650NK is not that bad, some features are a bit simple, but other detail are nice, for example Ducati makes the ECU with Marelli injector, the cylinders are ceramic plated, and they used KYB Japan suspension for the front and rear.

This all for around £ 4100, which is about the same as you can buy a Honda CBR250R in England. For Europe the distributor/dealer can restrict the 650NK to be within the 49kW learner bike restriction. After you have your full drivers license you can ask the dealer to derestrict the bike and you back to 53kW...

For Thailand we probably have to wait a few more years before motorcycles like this can been imported into Thailand for a competitive price.

[AllanB]

The CFMoto 650NK is not that bad, some features are a bit simple, but other detail are nice, for example Ducati makes the ECU with Marelli injector, the cylinders are ceramic plated, and they used KYB Japan suspension for the front and rear.

This all for around £ 4100, which is about the same as you can buy a Honda CBR250R in England. For Europe the distributor/dealer can restrict the 650NK to be within the 49kW learner bike restriction. After you have your full drivers license you can ask the dealer to derestrict the bike and you back to 53kW...

For Thailand we probably have to wait a few more years before motorcycles like this can been imported into Thailand for a competitive price.

I am sorry mate, when I am riding a 75hp bike down the road at 200kph, I don't want to hear "ii is really not that bad", I am not even interested in a jobby with a few key features, like they have put half decent Jap bearings in and a decent injector pump, on the otherwise unknow engine. That reads to me that the rest is crap.

This bike is as safe and reliable as it's weakest link. I want hear it has been tested in 10,000 road races and been developed by a company I have heard of.

A few years back one of those Chinese two wheeled tractors had an engine blow and the driver lost both legs, you see them everywhere in Thailand................

There is a problem on the horizon for Thailand, because of the huge import duties placed on bikes here, we could be stuck with this crappy stuff, with decent bikes priced out of the market. In many western countries they have "anti-dumpy levies" on crap, I can't see that happening in Thailand.

Edited December 27, 2012 by AllanB

[moe666]

Japanese really care about quality, like really really care - the way Americans care about freedom.

Others, well, they DON'T care about quality.

Is it anymore complex than this?

Yes the care about quality, learned from an american guy.

[moe666]

Boys, it only cost 100 per cent more to go first class

[rene123]

What AlanB says is true... all of it. Japan learned its lesson about producing cheap crap years ago and they changed their ways. The same was true with Hyundi who built cheap, crappy copies of the Japanese cars. But, Hyundi also changed their ways and now build fine autos that compete well with any on the market. It can be done, but the question being asked is will China learn the lesson of producing quality items and do it also. Maybe they use Thailand as a cheap dumping ground for inferior products because they can get away with it. Most Asian countries need foreign management at the start. Some need foreign management to continue to be competitive. Quality control is always an issue in any country.

In the 1940s, the Brits lost out to America by sitting on their duff and letting American auto manufacturers take over the market by building a better and more reliable product. In the 1970s the Americans did the same as the Brits and sat on their butts when the Japanese started building small, attractive, reliable cars with good gas mileage. It took a few years before the Americans learned their lesson and started to catch up again. I suspect that China will do the same with their motorbikes and autos, but it's going to take a while. Once you lose your customers and potential customers by building crap it takes a while to regain their confidence.

As much as I am attracted to the low cost of some of these "pretty" Chinese bikes I see I will wait a while and let others make my mistakes for me. I want a bike that I can be rest assured that when I start out in Chiang Mai heading for Nakhon Nowhere that it will actually arrive at the destination in one piece, and not be parked on the side of the road somewhere. it's one thing to be riding around a city and close to a mechanics shop when you have a problem, and something entirely different if you have a breakdown way out in the sticks somewhere, and you can't speak the local language.

[wantan]

Japanese really care about quality, like really really care - the way Americans care about freedom.

Others, well, they DON'T care about quality.

Is it anymore complex than this?

Yes the care about quality, learned from an american guy.

After reading this again, i think it can only be meant as a joke: "Japanese really care about quality, like really really care - the way Americans care about freedom. Others, well, they DON'T care about quality."

Isn't Thailand called "the land of the free"? And Europe is well known for crappy products?

Wow, lots of "proud to be an us-american" here

Japanese "learned quality from an american guy"?

[taninthai]

^

see you not me talking about japs again in a thread you started give it up wanton

[moe666]

Japanese really care about quality, like really really care - the way Americans care about freedom.

Others, well, they DON'T care about quality.

Is it anymore complex than this?

Yes the care about quality, learned from an american guy.

After reading this again, i think it can only be meant as a joke: "Japanese really care about quality, like really really care - the way Americans care about freedom. Others, well, they DON'T care about quality."

Isn't Thailand called "the land of the free"? And Europe is well known for crappy products?

Wow, lots of "proud to be an us-american" here

Japanese "learned quality from an american guy"?

Before you make a fool of yourself do your reserch about Quality control and who wrote the book on it wwhich the japanese excepted with a passion

[wantan]

Yes, us-americans are great ... for entertainment. Which book? You mean the bible? Written by an american guy?

But how to bring up "japs" in this post now? Maybe we should compare the Chinese made cruisers with Harleys instead of a japs supervised, thai made Honda Phantom...

[moe666]

Yes, us-americans are great ... for entertainment. Which book? You mean the bible? Written by an american guy?

But how to bring up "japs" in this post now? Maybe we should compare the Chinese made cruisers with Harleys instead of a japs supervised, thai made Honda Phantom...

You have lived up to your repatation, since you have a problem you may want to check out Edward Deming who is considered the father of modern quality control. Start a thread then sabatoge it way to go. If the Chinese would do as the japanese did then they would be building quality motorcycles Edited December 27, 2012 by moe666

[wantan]

The CFMoto 650NK is not that bad, some features are a bit simple, but other detail are nice, for example Ducati makes the ECU with Marelli injector, the cylinders are ceramic plated, and they used KYB Japan suspension for the front and rear.

This all for around £ 4100, which is about the same as you can buy a Honda CBR250R in England. For Europe the distributor/dealer can restrict the 650NK to be within the 49kW learner bike restriction. After you have your full drivers license you can ask the dealer to derestrict the bike and you back to 53kW...

For Thailand we probably have to wait a few more years before motorcycles like this can been imported into Thailand for a competitive price.

I am sorry mate, when I am riding a 75hp bike down the road at 200kph, I don't want to hear "ii is really not that bad", I am not even interested in a jobby with a few key features, like they have put half decent Jap bearings in and a decent injector pump, on the otherwise unknow engine. That reads to me that the rest is crap.

This bike is as safe and reliable as it's weakest link. I want hear it has been tested in 10,000 road races and been developed by a company I have heard of.

A few years back one of those Chinese two wheeled tractors had an engine blow and the driver lost both legs, you see them everywhere in Thailand................

There is a problem on the horizon for Thailand, because of the huge import duties placed on bikes here, we could be stuck with this crappy stuff, with decent bikes priced out of the market. In many western countries they have "anti-dumpy levies" on crap, I can't see that happening in Thailand.

But if Richard would have said "This bike is absolutely top quality and 100% compareable with a Japs-bike", than you would have answered he is a commercial spammer and a lier

I see many people in "the West" buying cheap bikes. Some customers are happy, some not. But at least they are discussing their bikes and so they are able to seperate the better chinese bikes from the "crap". And this is why chinese quality is improving on the long term. If china is able to build high speed trains with top speeds of 380kmh on their own, than i am sure they are able to build bikes that suits most needs. The only problem is, that most people don't want to pay the price it needs to build a chinese made bike that is 100% compareable with a modern japs bike. But this will change. Same problem as with the Japanese products 40 years ago. Such thing can change quickly.

Riding 200kmh on a bike? In Thailand? Do it if you want. I prefer speeds around 130kmh. And i already did 120kmh on my Tiger Boxer. So 130-140kmh on such Chinese made bike wouldn't scare me at all

[wantan]

Yes, us-americans are great ... for entertainment. Which book? You mean the bible? Written by an american guy?

But how to bring up "japs" in this post now? Maybe we should compare the Chinese made cruisers with Harleys instead of a japs supervised, thai made Honda Phantom...

You have lived up to your repatation, since you have a problem you may want to check out Edward Deming who is considered the father of modern quality control. Start a thread then sabatoge it way to go. If the Chinese would do as the japanese did then they would be building quality motorcycles

You are the guy with the theory that its all about "quality control theory". If so, why isn't the USA the leader in building quality products? Theory and praxis mostly differ. One important thing is discipline. And thats where first the germans were leading, than the japanese, and now the chinese will come up. Its like with gereral economy. Waves come and go. Up and down. No country will be leading forever

[AllanB]

This is all getting very jingoistic and completely beside the point. The real point being are we willing to risk our lives and money on an unproven product?

Someone correctly commented that they would wait and let someone else make the mistakes for them.

Based on recent personal experience, plus what I have read and seen in the press and in the showrooms, I would say the Chinese are not yet to be trusted. All countries have their day, one day the Chinese may be known for quality motorcycles, my feeling is that day is a long way off.

The other point is that other countries with the ability to innovate are pushing ahead with even better products, China is too busy learning to walk at the moment and with a sea change in the way world trade is developing, the doors currently wide open to China, may start to close.

The economic equation for manufacturing in China, is starting to alter too, with higher wages being demanded in China and a rise in unemployment in the west, companies will start to bring their manufacturing back home. This won't help Chinese bike industry either, with only a few skills currently under their belts..

[wantan]

This is all getting very jingoistic and completely beside the point. The real point being are we willing to risk our lives and money on an unproven product?

Someone correctly commented that they would wait and let someone else make the mistakes for them.

Based on recent personal experience, plus what I have read and seen in the press and in the showrooms, I would say the Chinese are not yet to be trusted. All countries have their day, one day the Chinese may be known for quality motorcycles, my feeling is that day is a long way off.

The other point is that other countries with the ability to innovate are pushing ahead with even better products, China is too busy learning to walk at the moment and with a sea change in the way world trade is developing, the doors currently wide open to China, may start to close.

The economic equation for manufacturing in China, is starting to alter too, with higher wages being demanded in China and a rise in unemployment in the west, companies will start to bring their manufacturing back home. This won't help Chinese bike industry either, with only a few skills currently under their belts..

Don't think so. Companies will not go back home to the west. The west is fat, ful up with pension claims, sick old people and young people that do not want to work hard enough to proper feed all the elderly. So if Japan isn't the winner, who will it be? My guess is china. The low paid jobs will go from china to the surrounding countries. And the better paid jobs and quality work will move to china. I may be wrong, who knows, but i guess the west is already on a long hard way down, away from all the luxery and "first world affectation". But you are right, this isn't really the topic of this thread. Or maybe it is?

Edited December 27, 2012 by wantan

[AllanB]

This is all getting very jingoistic and completely beside the point. The real point being are we willing to risk our lives and money on an unproven product?

Someone correctly commented that they would wait and let someone else make the mistakes for them.

Based on recent personal experience, plus what I have read and seen in the press and in the showrooms, I would say the Chinese are not yet to be trusted. All countries have their day, one day the Chinese may be known for quality motorcycles, my feeling is that day is a long way off.

The other point is that other countries with the ability to innovate are pushing ahead with even better products, China is too busy learning to walk at the moment and with a sea change in the way world trade is developing, the doors currently wide open to China, may start to close.

The economic equation for manufacturing in China, is starting to alter too, with higher wages being demanded in China and a rise in unemployment in the west, companies will start to bring their manufacturing back home. This won't help Chinese bike industry either, with only a few skills currently under their belts..

Don't think so. Companies will not go back home to the west. The west is fat, ful up with pension claims, sick old people and young people that do not want to work hard enough to proper feed all the elderly. So if Japan isn't the winner, who will it be? My guess is china. The low paid jobs will go from china to the surrounding countries. And the better paid jobs and quality work will move to china. I may be wrong, who knows, but i guess the west is already on a long hard way down, away from all the luxery and "first world affectation". But you are right, this isn't really the topic of this thread. Or maybe it is?

I think you should read up mate, the west is in the shit and companies are already talking about bringing their manufacturing back home purely for financial reasons. There are big social issues too, with financial consequences, like high unemployment, youth unemployment is as hight as 50% in some countries and that is unsustainable. Governments will have to act too and start putting additional restrictions on items like these bikes, as they do with cheapo cycles.

I used to be in the folding cycle business in the UK and you wouldn't believe the rubbish that comes out of China, or would like to come out of China. Luckily it is kept out of of the UK by massive anti-dumping levies. Our very high quality cycles which came from Taiwan were actually cheaper to import than the really crappy ones from China.

Now you may think this a digression from the subject thread, but world trade is changing and if these companies cannot sell to lucrative western markets, they will fold and disappear....then you try getting spare parts in Thailand.

You may also be unaware that these companies get massive government subsidies to boost exports, this is currently another bone of contention in the west. Even if these companies do survive selling only in Asia, the products won't improve without access to western markets.

So on top of the quality, reliability, service and spare parts issues you have the uncertain future of a bike you paid good money for. Companies like the big 4 Japs are unlikely to disappear any time soon. so you can buy with complete confidence.

[dutchrdam]

You have lived up to your repatation, since you have a problem you may want to check out Edward Deming who is considered the father of modern quality control. Start a thread then sabatoge it way to go. If the Chinese would do as the japanese did then they would be building quality motorcycles

Although Edward Deming changed some content in his books, general spoken he copy the base from the German "Leitfaden für Mitarbeitern". This was the basic work for technologic research by Dr. Albert Speer Ing. and found his ways before and during the second world war in the German industy.

After the second world war it came to the USA with Dr. Wernher Von Braun and Major-General Dr . Walter Robert Dornberger, from e.g. NASA and Bell , who promoted this in the USA production processes but was widely rejected and seen as NASI propaganda.

In 1952 with the launch and orbit from the Russian elementary satellite Sputnik 1, the USA got serious about quality control and adapted the guidelines in their DARPA program.

Regards