Falkland Islanders Vote To Remain British

[metisdead]

And some more off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[Credo]

Not all Yanks feel the Falklands should go to Argentina.

I, for one, believe the self determination vote counts and is of paramount importance..

To some of the earlier posters, I would say the American Indians have nothing to do with this topic.

Most Americans would probably support the Islands staying under the British, if for no other reason than that there was a vote and that was the overwhelming wish of the residents.

When push comes to shove and the diplomatic double speak is over, the US will support Britain. Britain has been a steadfast ally of the US for a very long time and Argentina is hardly even a fair weather friend.

[jamhar]

Its a slow news day,

And Kobe twisted his ankle so i'm avoiding sports.

So i keep coming back to this topic lol

It seems that the Brit government has tried to get the island back to A's in the past,

but the indigenous population would have none of it.

Also, the indigenous population tried to enter negotiation with the A's and were rejected by the A's.

"Argentina reiterated its position towards the Falklanders in 2012, after a meeting of the UN Decolonization Committee, when its representatives refused to accept a letter from the Falkland Islands offering the opening of direct talks between both governments. Argentina only recognises the UK government as a legitimate partner in negotiations[75][76] and considers the islands, along with South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands, as part of the province of Tierra del Fuego.[77]"

The A's cant stop shooting themselves in the foot. If they truly wanted the islands, why didn't they try to win over the population first?

Lastly and interesting timeline in wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_history_of_the_Falkland_Islands

Interesting to be sure but it has the feel of being written with a Brit bias (ya think? lol ). I'd still like to get an A's perspective on the timeline and claims but i cant seem to find any in TV. I'll see if i can find some elsewhere.

These were the A's losses in the last fighting

1 cruiser

1 submarine

4 cargo vessels

2 patrol boats

1 spy trawler

25 helicopters

35 fighters

2 bombers

4 transports

25 COIN aircraft

9 armed trainers

Before they start the next round of fighting, I would suggest they just tally up the cost of the equipment they lost in the last round, and offer it to the inhabitants as a buy out. They could save a lot of lives and really put the conflict to bed.

[Trembly]

I think what a lot of people around the world don't realise is that the Falkland Islands are not actually part of metropolitan Britain.

The Falkland Islanders do not hold full British passports unlike, say, the inhabitants of Guadaloupe or Dutch Guyana who hold full French and Dutch passports respectively.

Politically, the Falkland Islands are a self-governing British Overseas Territory with the UK being responsible only for defence and foreign policy.

This makes them only one step away from being an independent dominion like Canada, Australia and New Zealand. There was actually talk a year or so ago about granting the Falkland Islanders dominion status or something similar, which would make them a nation unto themselves with a seat at the UN, but of course Argentina and Mercosur jumped all over that.

Naturally, this is something that the Argentinians would rather gloss over but I don't think that the wishes of the actual Falkland Islanders can be so easily dismissed as a PR stunt once this is appreciated.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Trembly

[MAJIC]

Its a slow news day,

And Kobe twisted his ankle so i'm avoiding sports.

So i keep coming back to this topic lol

It seems that the Brit government has tried to get the island back to A's in the past,

but the indigenous population would have none of it.

Also, the indigenous population tried to enter negotiation with the A's and were rejected by the A's.

"Argentina reiterated its position towards the Falklanders in 2012, after a meeting of the UN Decolonization Committee, when its representatives refused to accept a letter from the Falkland Islands offering the opening of direct talks between both governments. Argentina only recognises the UK government as a legitimate partner in negotiations[75][76] and considers the islands, along with South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands, as part of the province of Tierra del Fuego.[77]"

The A's cant stop shooting themselves in the foot. If they truly wanted the islands, why didn't they try to win over the population first?

Lastly and interesting timeline in wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_history_of_the_Falkland_Islands

Interesting to be sure but it has the feel of being written with a Brit bias (ya think? lol ). I'd still like to get an A's perspective on the timeline and claims but i cant seem to find any in TV. I'll see if i can find some elsewhere.

These were the A's losses in the last fighting

1 cruiser

1 submarine

4 cargo vessels

2 patrol boats

1 spy trawler

25 helicopters

35 fighters

2 bombers

4 transports

25 COIN aircraft

9 armed trainers

Before they start the next round of fighting, I would suggest they just tally up the cost of the equipment they lost in the last round, and offer it to the inhabitants as a buy out. They could save a lot of lives and really put the conflict to bed.

I wouldn't underestimate the Islanders Integrity,I don't think they would sell out to the Argies,some things are not for sale,and other things are not for Negotiating.

Edited March 14, 2013 by MAJIC

[7by7]

Very emotive issue, considering the number of pages....the Brits will eventually sell them out, irrespective of their wishes and it will be done behind closed doors for the sake of political convenience or whatever. Thats the reality. I suppose they will have to wait first for Maggie to kick the bucket.

Maggie was the last British PM to have balls. Ronald (The President's Brain is missing) Reagan asked her to go to the UN. She told him to mind his own business. I wish the PMs after had also been less enamoured of the USA.

[kevin2008]

Very emotive issue, considering the number of pages....the Brits will eventually sell them out, irrespective of their wishes and it will be done behind closed doors for the sake of political convenience or whatever. Thats the reality. I suppose they will have to wait first for Maggie to kick the bucket.

Crap.

Political bluster comes easy, ( David ).. political honesty is non existent in these matters. Closer Political,Diplomatic, cultural, economic, relationship with the Sovereign Nation of Argentina, Pop. 41m or the daily needs of 2900 islanders. I wonder !!.......... Over the 30 years of the conflict in Northern Ireland, 11 secret meetings took place between the terrorist IRA and British Governments ( released state papers) ?? while those same British governments ( both Lab + Con ) insisted time and time again throughout the conflict, that they would never, never talk to terrorists The state papers on the Falklands of 30 years ago are extremely interesting, if you research. Read Lord Carringtons comments ( foreign Sec). Geography and common sense will dictate the eventual withdrawal. Hopefully it can be done in a way which safeguards the needs of the Islanders. ..ie Hong Kong.

Edited March 14, 2013 by kevin2008

[Mosha]

Very emotive issue, considering the number of pages....the Brits will eventually sell them out, irrespective of their wishes and it will be done behind closed doors for the sake of political convenience or whatever. Thats the reality. I suppose they will have to wait first for Maggie to kick the bucket.

Crap.

Political bluster comes easy, ( David ).. political honesty is non existent in these matters. Closer Political,Diplomatic, cultural, economic, relationship with the Sovereign Nation of Argentina, Pop. 41m or the daily needs of 2900 islanders. I wonder !!.......... Over the 30 years of the conflict in Northern Ireland, 11 secret meetings took place between the terrorist IRA and British Governments ( released state papers) ?? while those same British governments ( both Lab + Con ) insisted time and time again throughout the conflict, that they would never, never talk to terrorists The state papers on the Falklands of 30 years ago are extremely interesting, if you research. Read Lord Carringtons comments ( foreign Sec). Geography and common sense will dictate the eventual withdrawal. Hopefully it can be done in a way which safeguards the needs of the Islanders. ..ie Hong Kong.

Hong Kong was leased to the UK

[simple1]

Very emotive issue, considering the number of pages....the Brits will eventually sell them out, irrespective of their wishes and it will be done behind closed doors for the sake of political convenience or whatever. Thats the reality. I suppose they will have to wait first for Maggie to kick the bucket.

Crap.

Political bluster comes easy, ( David ).. political honesty is non existent in these matters. Closer Political,Diplomatic, cultural, economic, relationship with the Sovereign Nation of Argentina, Pop. 41m or the daily needs of 2900 islanders. I wonder !!.......... Over the 30 years of the conflict in Northern Ireland, 11 secret meetings took place between the terrorist IRA and British Governments ( released state papers) ?? while those same British governments ( both Lab + Con ) insisted time and time again throughout the conflict, that they would never, never talk to terrorists The state papers on the Falklands of 30 years ago are extremely interesting, if you research. Read Lord Carringtons comments ( foreign Sec). Geography and common sense will dictate the eventual withdrawal. Hopefully it can be done in a way which safeguards the needs of the Islanders. ..ie Hong Kong.

There is no comparison to the previous situation in Northern Ireland and H.K. with the Falklands. It would be political suicide for a UK government to cede the Falklands to Argentina. This may change over time based upon changes of attitude by the voting public, but until then, no way.

[Mossfinn]

May the Holy Father now bring a negotiated settlement to what can only be in this situation, self determination of the population of the Overseas Territories of the Falklands and their dependencies, without further future violence.

I think he should get his own house in order first.

One day in the job and he can only concentrate on one topic. You have done well there young man and all your 'like' supporters. Give him time, but then why should we Cameron, O'Bama et al have to be perfect on day two, day one to sort out all the problems.

If you are without sin, I will let you cast the first TV stone, somehow, I think I might be gone some time, to para phase Cap't Oates.

[Mossfinn]

Lucky country, when say have nothing else to complain about!

Argentina cunjures up visions of the Falklands,Dictator Galtieri,Good Footballers,Tinned Beef exports, and that's about it for me.without Googling,how many other notable points can others add?

As opposed to the UK conjuring up Ireland, Israel, Kenya, India, Syria ( I wonder how many can grasp the irony ) thatcher, Joey Barton, Mad Cow et al

Anyone? On the vagaries and wanton British interpretation on Democracy and Self Determination?

Thought so..................

[Trembly]

Very emotive issue, considering the number of pages....the Brits will eventually sell them out, irrespective of their wishes and it will be done behind closed doors for the sake of political convenience or whatever. Thats the reality. I suppose they will have to wait first for Maggie to kick the bucket.

Crap.

Political bluster comes easy, ( David ).. political honesty is non existent in these matters. Closer Political,Diplomatic, cultural, economic, relationship with the Sovereign Nation of Argentina, Pop. 41m or the daily needs of 2900 islanders. I wonder !!.......... Over the 30 years of the conflict in Northern Ireland, 11 secret meetings took place between the terrorist IRA and British Governments ( released state papers) ?? while those same British governments ( both Lab + Con ) insisted time and time again throughout the conflict, that they would never, never talk to terrorists The state papers on the Falklands of 30 years ago are extremely interesting, if you research. Read Lord Carringtons comments ( foreign Sec). Geography and common sense will dictate the eventual withdrawal. Hopefully it can be done in a way which safeguards the needs of the Islanders. ..ie Hong Kong.

There is no comparison to the previous situation in Northern Ireland and H.K. with the Falklands. It would be political suicide for a UK government to cede the Falklands to Argentina. This may change over time based upon changes of attitude by the voting public, but until then, no way.

Several UK governments have tried to give the Falklands (which they privately saw as a drain on resources and a bloody nuisance in diplomatic dealings with South America) away to Argentina, the most recent being Tony Blair's administration. That attitude has changed with the discovery of oil, of course.

Personally I'm for the self-determination of the islanders. I don't think the historical claims of any party can trump the free will of the people who are resident on the islands now. I wish the islanders would wake up to the fact that both the UK and Argentine governments have an extremely crooked record and declare themselves a nation or push for dominion status.

[maidu]

Split it in two, like Hispaniola and New Guinea (just kidding).

Better than that: declare the islands a marine sanctuary, and relocate all the good folks there to other places. It would be one small victory for the environment - which has lost every nearly battle for the past century.

...same for all those rocks sticking up out of the South China Sea. Much better an Int'l marine preserve than a war zone and/or exploited for oil - with inevitable oil spills.

[PoorSucker]

Post containing article without link removed.

[Commander Tamson]

May the Holy Father now bring a negotiated settlement to what can only be in this situation, self determination of the population of the Overseas Territories of the Falklands and their dependencies, without further future violence.

I think he should get his own house in order first.

First step:: introduce Catholicism to the Falklands. I understand they are all (mostly) Presbyterian

[Steely Dan]

Very emotive issue, considering the number of pages....the Brits will eventually sell them out, irrespective of their wishes and it will be done behind closed doors for the sake of political convenience or whatever. Thats the reality. I suppose they will have to wait first for Maggie to kick the bucket.

Crap.

Political bluster comes easy, ( David ).. political honesty is non existent in these matters. Closer Political,Diplomatic, cultural, economic, relationship with the Sovereign Nation of Argentina, Pop. 41m or the daily needs of 2900 islanders. I wonder !!.......... Over the 30 years of the conflict in Northern Ireland, 11 secret meetings took place between the terrorist IRA and British Governments ( released state papers) ?? while those same British governments ( both Lab + Con ) insisted time and time again throughout the conflict, that they would never, never talk to terrorists The state papers on the Falklands of 30 years ago are extremely interesting, if you research. Read Lord Carringtons comments ( foreign Sec). Geography and common sense will dictate the eventual withdrawal. Hopefully it can be done in a way which safeguards the needs of the Islanders. ..ie Hong Kong.

Before assuming your take on the realpolitik of sovereignty is correct I suggest you balance the logistical cost of retaining sovereignty with the ongoing revenue from oil, fisheries and attendant claim to a good slice of the antarctic. By the by, when a British man landed on Rockall and raised a Union jack he gained for the crown a multi-billion pound piece of real-estate, the potential value of the Falklands is far far greater.

[simple1]

Several UK governments have tried to give the Falklands (which they privately saw as a drain on resources and a bloody nuisance in diplomatic dealings with South America) away to Argentina, the most recent being Tony Blair's administration. That attitude has changed with the discovery of oil, of course.

Trembly: Do you have the source regards Blair's and other UK government efforts?

[7by7]

Lucky country, when say have nothing else to complain about!

Argentina cunjures up visions of the Falklands,Dictator Galtieri,Good Footballers,Tinned Beef exports, and that's about it for me.without Googling,how many other notable points can others add?

As opposed to the UK conjuring up Ireland, Israel, Kenya, India, Syria ( I wonder how many can grasp the irony ) thatcher, Joey Barton, Mad Cow et al

Anyone? On the vagaries and wanton British interpretation on Democracy and Self Determination?

Thought so..................

What are you on about?

Ireland? The RoI is an independent, sovereign state and Northern Ireland is part of the UK because the majority of the people living there want it to be part of the UK.

As for the other countries you list; yes, they all used to be, at one time or another, part of what was the British Empire, but the empire is long gone and all those countries are independent and have been for many years.

Thatcher? Prime Minister at the time of the war, and a good job too. Can anyone really see the Welsh windbag Kinnock acting in the same way? Had he been Priome Minister at the time I'm sure the inhabitants of the Falklands would now be speaking Spanish.

What a minor footballer and Mad Cow disease have to do with the subject, only you know.

So kindly explain your point, as it's gone right over my head.

Edited March 15, 2013 by 7by7

[Scott]

Unless you come from a country that has made no mistakes, I would suggest you exercise care in you choice of words. This thread is not a British-bashing topic.

Oh and if you did come from a country that made no mistakes, it's probably because they have never done anything.

[Trembly]

Several UK governments have tried to give the Falklands (which they privately saw as a drain on resources and a bloody nuisance in diplomatic dealings with South America) away to Argentina, the most recent being Tony Blair's administration. That attitude has changed with the discovery of oil, of course.

Trembly: Do you have the source regards Blair's and other UK government efforts?

I remember them from reading the Private Eye newspaper but for the life of me I can't find anything but links to Tony Blair and Gibraltar on the interweb now.

Feel free to disregard or not as you see fit.

[transam]

Unless you come from a country that has made no mistakes, I would suggest you exercise care in you choice of words. This thread is not a British-bashing topic.

Oh and if you did come from a country that made no mistakes, it's probably because they have never done anything.

Switzerland. But hey, Looooooooooooooads a money.

[RabC]

Several UK governments have tried to give the Falklands (which they privately saw as a drain on resources and a bloody nuisance in diplomatic dealings with South America) away to Argentina, the most recent being Tony Blair's administration. That attitude has changed with the discovery of oil, of course.

Trembly: Do you have the source regards Blair's and other UK government efforts?

I remember them from reading the Private Eye newspaper but for the life of me I can't find anything but links to Tony Blair and Gibraltar on the interweb now.

Feel free to disregard or not as you see fit.

There are a few brief mentions in WIKI that Blair may well have offered The Falklands for negotiation but even he wasn't stupid enough to give a quote, unlike what he did with Gib. There is also an interesting item about Cherri Blair trying to sway influence over handing The Falklands over but as it is hear say, I will let you google it and see for yourself.

[oldsailor35]

It's only a matter of time. Look at a map.

You may be right,no one knows what will be changed in the future.

But Argentina's claim to the Falklands is spurious to say the least,considering the Falklands are 946 miles (1523 k) away from Argentina,so no flouting of International law connection there,and has been occupied by Falklanders of British descent for 180 years.

Looking at the map,it would seem if distance is anything to go by,then several other South American countries would have a more feasable claim than Argentina.

The Falklanders right to choose should always be paramount,and not for the first time they have given their descision to remain British,very close to a unanimous vote.

As did the Gibraltarians a few years ago.

Not wishing to be rude Majic, but i think its really about 300 miles from Argentina to The Falklands. In any case its a lot further than the International distance of 200 miles.

[MAJIC]

It's only a matter of time. Look at a map.

You may be right,no one knows what will be changed in the future.

But Argentina's claim to the Falklands is spurious to say the least,considering the Falklands are 946 miles (1523 k) away from Argentina,so no flouting of International law connection there,and has been occupied by Falklanders of British descent for 180 years.

Looking at the map,it would seem if distance is anything to go by,then several other South American countries would have a more feasable claim than Argentina.

The Falklanders right to choose should always be paramount,and not for the first time they have given their descision to remain British,very close to a unanimous vote.

As did the Gibraltarians a few years ago.

Not wishing to be rude Majic, but i think its really about 300 miles from Argentina to The Falklands. In any case its a lot further than the International distance of 200 miles.

Yes you are perfectly correct,I got the figures from an obscure website,and I should have checked it with another website to verify the distance!

http://www.distancefromto.net/distance-from/Argentina/to/Falkland+Islands+Malvinas

Please accept my Apologies for the mistake!

Edited March 15, 2013 by MAJIC

[MAJIC]

Unless you come from a country that has made no mistakes, I would suggest you exercise care in you choice of words. This thread is not a British-bashing topic.

Oh and if you did come from a country that made no mistakes, it's probably because they have never done anything.

Switzerland. But hey, Looooooooooooooads a money.

Mmm they don't have a very good record,when it comes to storing Nazi loot,amongst plenty of other stolen money,in their Banks.

[Ignorethem]

With the Argentine Pope supporting his country's claim to the Islands maybe they will claim some spiritual divine claim.Praying would be their only hope of getting them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2293598/Fury-Falklands-heroes-new-Pope-He-believes-Malvinas-belong-Argentina-president-hopes-support-case.html

Edited March 15, 2013 by Ignorethem

[dundee48]

May the Holy Father now bring a negotiated settlement to what can only be in this situation, self determination of the population of the Overseas Territories of the Falklands and their dependencies, without further future violence.

I think he should get his own house in order first.

One day in the job and he can only concentrate on one topic. You have done well there young man and all your 'like' supporters. Give him time, but then why should we Cameron, O'Bama et al have to be perfect on day two, day one to sort out all the problems.

If you are without sin, I will let you cast the first TV stone, somehow, I think I might be gone some time, to para phase Cap't Oates.

He`s not the messiah,he`s a very naughty boy.

[Mossfinn]

thatcher, Joey Barton, Mad Cow et al

Argentina cunjures up visions of the Falklands,Dictator Galtieri,Good Footballers,Tinned Beef exports,

What are you on about?

What a minor footballer and Mad Cow disease have to do with the subject, only you know.

So kindly explain your point, as it's gone right over my head.

Could you not comprehend a little light hearted counter weight? Someone mentions Galtieri, good footballers and tinned beef, I propose Thatcher, Joey Barton and Mad Cow, I thought it was funny, I fully understand that you didn't.

[Mossfinn]

Thatcher? Prime Minister at the time of the war, and a good job too. Can anyone really see the Welsh windbag Kinnock acting in the same way? Had he been Priome Minister at the time I'm sure the inhabitants of the Falklands would now be speaking Spanish.

There is a theory, that Thatcher needed a war to save her popularity, a popular war mind you and the Falklands gave it to her. 700 approx dead, in 1976 Sunny Jim Callaghan, not the Welsh Wind Bag, your derogatory words mind, informed the Argentinians when they were banging the war drums, that two nuclear subs were patrolling the area, that did the trick. War games or good positive mind games, I know which I prefer.

[Mossfinn]

As opposed to the UK conjuring up Ireland, Israel, Kenya, India, Syria ( I wonder how many can grasp the irony ) thatcher, Joey Barton, Mad Cow et al

Anyone? On the vagaries and wanton British interpretation on Democracy and Self Determination?

Thought so..................

What are you on about?

Ireland? The RoI is an independent, sovereign state and Northern Ireland is part of the UK because the majority of the people living there want it to be part of the UK.

As for the other countries you list; yes, they all used to be, at one time or another, part of what was the British Empire, but the empire is long gone and all those countries are independent and have been for many years.

So kindly explain your point, as it's gone right over my head.

I have altered this nested quote, but I have responded to the the previous quotes, so I believe that to be OK.

To Scott, I don't believe I am Brit Bashing, just exposing the vagaries within the lauded British belief in democracy and self determination.

7by7, you ask me to explain myself, I am not sure I can in a manner that you will understand, without the new ball fizzing over your head, like a Dennis Lillee bouncer that nicks a lofted bat to the joy of the awaiting slip fielders, but like the patient sort of guy I am, I will try.

British Democracy and the will of free determination is only granted in general terms under their own licence. ROI as you state is a sovereign state, but was it given up freely?

The other countries I state, of course they were part of the British Empire, but were they given up freely? Syria, for instance, was encouraged to rise against their Ottoman occupiers in the first world war with the bait to have their own country, the British Government forgot to to tell them that they had already promised the country to the French, who exacted a heavy carnage against the under strength indigenous tribes afterword.

Israel, did the British leave a democratic state willingly, or did Begin's Stern Gang have a hand within it? Need I go on regarding Kenya et al?

These countries wanted self determination, but they had to fight for it, or have it deceived from them, not democratically given to them.

Democracy, it is system best learned cold, and Trust in God, but keep your powder dry.