It seems as if Obama has backed off on some of his silly, far-left positions on Israel. He might finally be learning something about the real world.

If Obama has backed off anything it is due to his own personal political expediency and has nothing to do with his core beliefs.

The guy is a chameleon in a Brooks Brothers suit and will say anything he thinks his audience wants to hear.

He cannot be trusted

I agree completely, but if he stops Iran from getting nukes, I will give him credit for it.

Obama MAY have achieved something rather major on the Iran issue. Now Netanyahu is talking the exact same timeline on theories about Iran's timeline to weaponize nukes. Basically endorsing Obama's efforts at a peaceful negotiation and showing a UNIFIED face of shared timelines. To balance that, President Peres made a public statement saying that Obama is for peace with Iran, but he is totally convinced if Iran crosses a line towards definite nuclear weaponization, he is convinced America WILL attack Iran. Got that? AMERICA will attack.

Bravo! Wishes for peace but the threats of war need to be real and credible.

Interestingly, Obama speaking at the Shoah museum made a point of referencing the HOMOSEXUAL victims of the holocaust as well. I am guessing that is the first time an American president has done that at that place. Again, BRAVO, Obama.

I think you may be premature in assuming an agreement has been reached that the U.S and Israel will both honor. According to the following article Iran has been given three months grace until after their elections on Jun 24th

http://www.debka.com/article/22847/Obama-Netanyahu-grant-Iran-another-three-months%E2%80%99-grace

If you believe this then what do you think Iran will do? I put the chances of them backing down at less than 10%, in which case I suspect Obama will again move the goalposts, time will tell.

You are always quick to whine on about "source policing" but sadly even quicker to highlight the Debka's, Gates of Vienna, or similar such agenda driven sources, to back up your points of view. You blithely write off MSM, perhaps because you find it hard to find support for your views and opinions. It's fine and dandy to claim that you alone are able to see the "truth" in amongst all the noise and that everyone else is blinded by their ignorance and apathy, but it's hardly a compelling case when you consider the background to your sources.

The world's a messed-up place where many decisions are made for pathetically short-term reasons, hence the fact that most grand conspiracy theories from the "Clash of Civilizations" to advisors to the White House, to who "killed" Princess Diana, are bout as credible as a politicians election manifesto....

At least he's trying. He's right, the best hope for peace for Israel is a viable Palestinian state. Most Israelis believe that too.

"He got a sweet gift of gab, he got a harmonious tongue

He knows every song of love that ever has been sung

Good intentions can be evil

Both hands can be full of grease

You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace."

-- Bob Dylan

Oh boy. Another Obama is the anti-Christ thingie.

Obama is trying to prevent war with Iran. That is a good thing. Strong forces in Israel are also trying to prevent a war with Iran. That is also a good thing. They may not succeed. There may be a war. Iran may get armed nukes. Or both. For all their efforts. Political leaders are generally not God or Satan.

Obama MAY have achieved something rather major on the Iran issue. Now Netanyahu is talking the exact same timeline on theories about Iran's timeline to weaponize nukes. Basically endorsing Obama's efforts at a peaceful negotiation and showing a UNIFIED face of shared timelines. To balance that, President Peres made a public statement saying that Obama is for peace with Iran, but he is totally convinced if Iran crosses a line towards definite nuclear weaponization, he is convinced America WILL attack Iran. Got that? AMERICA will attack.

Bravo! Wishes for peace but the threats of war need to be real and credible.

Interestingly, Obama speaking at the Shoah museum made a point of referencing the HOMOSEXUAL victims of the holocaust as well. I am guessing that is the first time an American president has done that at that place. Again, BRAVO, Obama.

I think you may be premature in assuming an agreement has been reached that the U.S and Israel will both honor. According to the following article Iran has been given three months grace until after their elections on Jun 24th

http://www.debka.com/article/22847/Obama-Netanyahu-grant-Iran-another-three-months%E2%80%99-grace

If you believe this then what do you think Iran will do? I put the chances of them backing down at less than 10%, in which case I suspect Obama will again move the goalposts, time will tell.

You are always quick to whine on about "source policing" but sadly even quicker to highlight the Debka's, Gates of Vienna, or similar such agenda driven sources, to back up your points of view. You blithely write off MSM, perhaps because you find it hard to find support for your views and opinions. It's fine and dandy to claim that you alone are able to see the "truth" in amongst all the noise and that everyone else is blinded by their ignorance and apathy, but it's hardly a compelling case when you consider the background to your sources.

The world's a messed-up place where many decisions are made for pathetically short-term reasons, hence the fact that most grand conspiracy theories from the "Clash of Civilizations" to advisors to the White House, to who "killed" Princess Diana, are bout as credible as a politicians election manifesto....

Your attack the source strategy is a standard lib-left attempt to avoid addressing a question. It's as tired as it is transparent so I refuse to respond or comment in future to any attempts on your part to so do.

The questions raised - Iran given till Jun 24th, likely or not likely?

Iran to comply with Western demands - Likely or not likely? And if not what do you think Obama would do?

P.S Just for you - Concerning sources from one of your favourite ones.

http://gatesofvienna.net/2013/02/what-sources-provide-credible-information/

Oh boy. Another Obama is the anti-Christ thingie.

No, he's not evil, I think he's just incompetent, which amounts to the same thing in his job. Rhetoric is dangerous if everyone knows it's only rhetoric.

Obama is trying to prevent war with Iran. That is a good thing. Strong forces in Israel are also trying to prevent a war with Iran. That is also a good thing. They may not succeed. There may be a war. Iran may get armed nukes. Or both. For all their efforts. Political leaders are generally not God or Satan.

You know those are song lyrics employing a metaphorical device right? That's why I put the songwriters name under it.

Incompetence, huh? It's like we are seeing different worlds, different presidents. Obama is not incompetent. He has made mistakes like any president, of course. He just persuaded Netanyahu to apologize to Turkey over the ship incident. That's good for Israel, Turkey, and America. That wasn't incompetent. This trip to Israel by Obama was bloody brilliant. A highlight of his presidency. May it bear some fruits of peace.

Incompetence, huh? It's like we are seeing different worlds, different presidents. Obama is not incompetent. He has made mistakes like any president, of course. He just persuaded Netanyahu to apologize to Turkey over the ship incident. That's good for Israel, Turkey, and America. That wasn't incompetent. This trip to Israel by Obama was bloody brilliant. A highlight of his presidency. May it bear some fruits of peace.

He's been a self inflicted Lame Duck president since the 2nd year of his first term. The one and only reason that those he disagrees with wouldn't just wait out his presidency is the belief that his successor would be more difficult to deal with. One thing we learned from Reagan/Thatcher/Gorbachev was, that whether you agreed with your ideological opponent or not, if they believed they could trust you to do what you said you'd do, then progress could be made. I doubt very much anyone trusts Obama. I don't think he even knows what he believes.

It's absurdly premature to judge the Obama presidency.

It's absurdly premature to judge the Obama presidency.

You don't seem to have any trouble doing it.

It's absurdly premature to judge the Obama presidency.

You don't seem to have any trouble doing it.

I have been doing it on a micro level, not making absurd assertions like he has been a lame duck since early in his first term. He's got two terms and the history of his presidency will be revealed starting after his two entire terms.

It's absurdly premature to judge the Obama presidency.

You don't seem to have any trouble doing it.

I have been doing it on a micro level, not making absurd assertions like he has been a lame duck since early in his first term. He's got two terms and the history of his presidency will be revealed starting after his two entire terms.

I hate to bust your bubble, JT, but many millions of people have already started considering his legacy...and it ain't pretty.

Incompetence, huh? It's like we are seeing different worlds, different presidents. Obama is not incompetent. He has made mistakes like any president, of course. He just persuaded Netanyahu to apologize to Turkey over the ship incident. That's good for Israel, Turkey, and America. That wasn't incompetent. This trip to Israel by Obama was bloody brilliant. A highlight of his presidency. May it bear some fruits of peace.

It worked a treat judging by Erdogan's recent comment that Zionism is a crime against humanity.

It's absurdly premature to judge the Obama presidency.

You don't seem to have any trouble doing it.

I have been doing it on a micro level, not making absurd assertions like he has been a lame duck since early in his first term. He's got two terms and the history of his presidency will be revealed starting after his two entire terms.

I hate to bust your bubble, JT, but many millions of people have already started considering his legacy...and it ain't pretty.

Funny. He just won a big election. Decisively.

Incompetence, huh? It's like we are seeing different worlds, different presidents. Obama is not incompetent. He has made mistakes like any president, of course. He just persuaded Netanyahu to apologize to Turkey over the ship incident. That's good for Israel, Turkey, and America. That wasn't incompetent. This trip to Israel by Obama was bloody brilliant. A highlight of his presidency. May it bear some fruits of peace.

It worked a treat judging by Erdogan's recent comment that Zionism is a crime against humanity.

That was horrible but politics is ugly and it really is in the best interest of Israel to be friends with Turkey. It is also a very good sign that Obama has gained the trust of Netanyahu enough to successfully twist his arm to apologize to Turkey. That's going to make it more possible for meaningful negotiations with the Palestinians. They know that Israel is more powerful and they fear Israel won't give enough to make peace, and only America is in a position to persuade Israel to offer some more. Negotiation is about compromise and both sides have to hurt to make it work and seem fair enough to be politically possible.

No I am not predicting that Obama will make peace happen there and that there will be a viable two state solution in the near future (or ever). But the two state solution is the best chance for a decent peace there, and a decent Israel, and Obama in this trip has at the very least kept hope alive so that this best chance is not yet totally dead. Yes it is remotely possible this agreement could happen during Obama's term, but only a fool would bet on that.

Incompetence, huh? It's like we are seeing different worlds, different presidents. Obama is not incompetent. He has made mistakes like any president, of course. He just persuaded Netanyahu to apologize to Turkey over the ship incident. That's good for Israel, Turkey, and America. That wasn't incompetent. This trip to Israel by Obama was bloody brilliant. A highlight of his presidency. May it bear some fruits of peace.

Four years ago I thought Obama was just incompetent.

Then it became obvious that he had learnt his politics in Chicago and was just a typical Chicago pol.

Before being elected he promised the immediate (within a year) pull-out from Afghanistan. Now in his second term and the troops are still there. He has finally started to interfere in the Middle East and not to any effect. He would do better straightening out his health scheme at home, making it fit for purpose, and leaving foreign affairs completely alone.

His trip to Israel will help no-one. It was just a trip he needed to show the electorate that he had an interest in the area (which he does not - he's a Somali, with a brother who has just failed to get any votes in Kenya)

Obama's a Somali? Okie-dokie ...

Obama got the Jewish vote overwhelmingly two times, as expected, and will never be up for election again in his life. His trip to Israel was not about helping him politically. It was obviously very sincere. Obama never promised to focus on the Israel-Palestinian thing so the expectations are very low; ironically as shown on this trip that could be an advantage and opportunity, at least potentially.

Obama has succeeded in getting the US out of Iraq and is fulfilling the exit from Afghanistan as well. Bush's war with Iraq was the biggest foreign policy mistake in American history with the end result mostly being a massive strengthening of a REAL enemy of the USA and Israel -- IRAN.

"we are not giving up the Jewish state voluntarily EVER." (Jingthing, a while back)

I don't think anybody would expect you to.... nor do I think that American (or British) politicians will ever make much difference. Nobody has ever denied that the Jews are very clever people (that's part of their problem) whereas the Palestinians don't have very much going for them. But this will hardly influence the endgame.

I wish Israel might succeed.... but I think Israel is doomed. The only saving grace is that so many of the wisest, and cleverest, Jews live outside Israel, and can always look forward to a second chance.

I don't know the future but I also can't imagine a powerful America ever abandoning Israel and the decline of American power is greatly exaggerated. The attacks Obama has taken about this were just silly. He has been a FANTASTIC friend of Israel. The one thing he did that people freaked out about was try to push Netanyahu to commit to stopping settlements as a prerequisite to negotiations. A strategic error perhaps but sensible people on both sides know any possible endgame agreement has got to involve serious limitations on settlements.

IB, it doesn't bother me at all that you or anyone thinks the Jewish state is doomed. I don't really know but I do know that global Jewry places massive importance on its continued existence, and I'm pretty sure you don't fully get why the passion about that is so strong. And no, it is not ONLY the holocaust.

BTW, plenty of Jews aren't clever at all. Some of my relatives are TOTAL MORONS! There is nothing genetic about so called Jewish cleverness. There is a cultural emphasis on education and learning though that is very strong, but the Palestinian people share a lot of that culture, and I can imagine a Palestinian state that is a shining star of Arabic culture and education someday, Insha'Allah. It really is sad. Palestinians and Jews are really ethnic brothers. Obama gets that.

More on Obama's conquest of the Middle East:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S is now less popular in the region than at the end of the George W. Bush administration.

James S. Robbins 7:13p.m. EDT March 20, 2013

President Obama's first journey to Israel as president comes amid earth-shattering change in Middle East, much of it for the worse. The Arab Spring, which once raised hopes of freedom and dignity, has diverged onto the dark path of Islamist authoritarian rule. In Syria, tens of thousands of people have died in a bitter civil war that might have recently seen its first use of chemical weapons. And Iran continues its march toward nuclear weapons capability, heedless of international condemnation. Obama's effort to seek peace between Palestinians and Israelis is in tatters.

That's why the White House has been lowering expectations for Obama's trip to Israel all this week. He will announce no new peace plan, grand design or major foreign policy initiative. His advisers are calling the trip a "listening tour." That is what you call a state visit when you have little to say.

Despite downgrading the trip, many see Obama's arrival as the sequel to his 2009 visit to Cairo, where he announced a "new beginning" with the Muslim world. Four years later, that doesn't auger well for renewed efforts in Israel and the West Bank. According to the latest survey by the Pew Research Center's Global Attitudes Project, confidence in Obama in Muslim countries dropped from 33% to 24% in his first term. Approval of Obama's policies declined even further, from 34% to 15%. And support for the United States in Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Pakistan is lower today than it was in 2008 in the closing year of George W. Bush's administration. That collapse of support has not happened elsewhere.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/03/20/obamas-middle-east-policy-in-tatters-column/2004343/

I don't know the future but I also can't imagine a powerful America ever abandoning Israel and the decline of American power is greatly exaggerated. The attacks Obama has taken about this were just silly. He has been a FANTASTIC friend of Israel. The one thing he did that people freaked out about was try to push Netanyahu to commit to stopping settlements as a prerequisite to negotiations. A strategic error perhaps but sensible people on both sides know any possible endgame agreement has got to involve serious limitations on settlements.

IB, it doesn't bother me at all that you or anyone thinks the Jewish state is doomed. I don't really know but I do know that global Jewry places massive importance on its continued existence, and I'm pretty sure you don't fully get why the passion about that is so strong. And no, it is not ONLY the holocaust.

BTW, plenty of Jews aren't clever at all. Some of my relatives are TOTAL MORONS! There is nothing genetic about so called Jewish cleverness. There is a cultural emphasis on education and learning though that is very strong, but the Palestinian people share a lot of that culture, and I can imagine a Palestinian state that is a shining star of Arabic culture and education someday, Insha'Allah. It really is sad. Palestinians and Jews are really ethnic brothers. Obama gets that.

Quite right.

See clip below re the more realistic view of the US beyond the chaos within the Beltway.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2013/03/special-report-americas-competitiveness

Popping toxic stereotypes about the "clever Jew" and highlighting the sad fact that ethnically the Israel/Palestine conflict is a spat between cousins! My, my some people will find that hard to swallow....!

What sequester??

It seems Obama isn't the only one of his administration that likes to travel in first class.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Biden's One-Night Paris Hotel Tab: $585,000.50

10:50 AM, MAR 22, 2013 • BY JERYL BIER

As it turns out, Vice President Joe Biden's London stay in February was not the most expensive part of his trip. A government document released on February 14, 2013 shows that the contract for the Hotel Intercontinental Paris Le Grand came in at $585,000.50.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/bidens-one-night-paris-hotel-tab-58500050_708799.html

...and then this one earlier...

Biden's $459,388.65 Hotel Bill 'Approximately 136 hotel rooms for 893 room nights.'

9:46 AM, MAR 22, 2013 • BY JERYL BIER

Vice President Biden and his entourage spent a little time in London in early February during his first foreign trip of the second term of the Obama administration. A document released today revealed that the cost of lodging in London alone was close to half a million dollars. The contract was awarded on January 30, 2013 to the Hyatt Regency London for a total of $459,388.65.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/biden-pays-45938865-hotel-bill_708795.html

Popping toxic stereotypes about the "clever Jew" and highlighting the sad fact that ethnically the Israel/Palestine conflict is a spat between cousins! My, my some people will find that hard to swallow....!

Mostly because it is a load of crap. They both speak semitic languages, but they are not "cousins".

Popping toxic stereotypes about the "clever Jew" and highlighting the sad fact that ethnically the Israel/Palestine conflict is a spat between cousins! My, my some people will find that hard to swallow....!

Mostly because it is a load of crap. They both speak semitic languages, but they are not "cousins".

I wouldn't be so sure!

Different communities of Jews around the world share more than just

religious or cultural practices--they also have strong genetic

commonalities, according to the largest genetic analysis of Jewish

people to date.

But the study also found strong genetic ties to non-Jewish groups, with

the closest genetic neighbors on the European side being Italians, and

on the Middle Eastern side the Druze, Bedouin and Palestinians.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=jews-worldwide-share-genetic

True story. One of my closest friends growing up had a Palestinian father but being American he was pro-Israel. Things really are different in America.

The stereotype of Jews being "very clever" is kind of fascinating --

None of this carried malice as far I could see. It was just flotsam
carried on the tide of an old anti-Semitism. The affable, insidious
English anti-Semitism that stereotypes and snubs, as in the judgment of
some gent at the Athenaeum on a Jew’s promotion to the House of Lords:
“Well, these people are very clever.” Or, as Jonathan Margolis noted in
The Guardian, the tipsy country squire commenting on how much he likes
the Jewish family who just moved into the village before adding, “Of
course, everybody else hates them.”

http://travel.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/opinion/sunday/cohen-jews-in-a-whisper.html?_r=0

Of course there has been a long history of anti-Semitism in Great
Britain; my mum’s antipathy drew upon this, not least the disquiet
occasioned in the East End of London, where she and her own dad had
lived, by Oswald Mosley. Jews were disliked then because they were
‘clever’, my mother opined — and she would not budge from this as a
valid reason to bear some grudge against them no matter how cogently I
argued that paradoxically she disliked Africans because they were ‘very
stupid’. Other peoples, it seemed, couldn’t win either way.

But that ‘clever’ was a loaded charge. It summoned the idea that they
had money, that they involved themselves in money and, simultaneously,
controlled international capitalism while sponsoring international
bolshevism (which seemed to me then, as now, self-defeating activities
and not remotely ‘clever’); that they had their paws in everything and,
being rootless aliens, held allegiance to no one but themselves.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/rod-liddle/7877933/antisemitism-is-an-evil-that-still-requires-examination/

Incompetence, huh? It's like we are seeing different worlds, different presidents. Obama is not incompetent. He has made mistakes like any president, of course. He just persuaded Netanyahu to apologize to Turkey over the ship incident. That's good for Israel, Turkey, and America. That wasn't incompetent. This trip to Israel by Obama was bloody brilliant. A highlight of his presidency. May it bear some fruits of peace.

What are you talking about? This wasn't a peace making mission. Obama doesn't give a <deleted> about Israel. This was a political visit to show Democrats can be counted on. It is strictly for the consumption of Florida Jews who swing the state that can swing the nation.

Israel and what happens to it is the least consequential thing going on in the Middle East and Africa but it it HUGE with a small percentage of American voters. THAT's why presidents go there and send foreign aid there.

Recent opinion polls of the entire American population show very strong support of Israel and very weak support of the Palestinians. I would actually prefer super strong support for PEACE, but it's the way they phrased the question I suppose.

Fifty-five percent in this ABC News/Washington Post poll sympathize more
with Israel, vs. 9 percent who side more with the Palestinian
Authority, with the rest favoring neither, or undecided. It’s been a
similar gap for many years, including polling back to the 1980s testing
Israel vs. the Arab nations of the Middle East.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/03/more-americans-sympathize-with-israel-dont-want-u-s-to-lead-peace-talks/

Look, please try to process this, Obama isn't running for any office ever again. He has already won the presidency twice, and that's it, and he won strong Jewish support both times even with the absurd attacks that he wasn't friendly enough to Israel. So objectively your point makes no sense. Obama doesn't need Florida ever again.

The vast majority of American Jews do not vote with Israel as their top issue. Many polls have shown this. It is assumed any American president is going to support Israel and that has been the case so there really hasn't been any need for American Jews to raise the priority. American Jews are not going to rubber stamp the opinion of every Israeli government, especially the right wing ones, and they sure have been pretty right wing for a long time. If there was an American presidential candidate who was very dodgy on Israel, yes more American Jews would probably raise the priority of the Israel support issue. Obama wasn't seen as questionable by AMERICAN Jews, but he was by Israelis Jews. Of course I think the Americans were right, and after this trip I am sure many more Israelis will be more favorable towards Obama.

The candidate I think that will worry Jews in future is RAND PAUL, the so called libertarian. He is not a friend of Israel, and interestingly, he's a republican. He is now a serious candidate for president. So if he is nominated, the republicans can count on even LESS support from Jews than usual. I sincerely hope Rand Paul is not nominated. I personally despise his politics.

Paul has been quoted that if Israel is directly attacked he would support helping out Israel in SOME WAY. To American supporters of Israel, that is outrageous. Totally unacceptable. Much worse than anything Obama has ever said about Israel. An American president is expected to be much more aggressive in the event of a direct attack on Israel. Israelis wished for a republican president this time; if Paul is nominated I would imagine they would change their tune BIG TIME.

Also keep in mind a group that is in some ways more passionate about Israel support are the right wing Christian fundamentalists. Not all of them of course, but many, and that is a HUGE demographic in America. They are a strange political bedfellow to American Jews who are mostly a liberal demographic group.

Popping toxic stereotypes about the "clever Jew" and highlighting the sad fact that ethnically the Israel/Palestine conflict is a spat between cousins! My, my some people will find that hard to swallow....!

Mostly because it is a load of crap. They both speak semitic languages, but they are not "cousins".

Sounds like you have not yet read Simon Sebag-Montefiore's "Jerusalem- a Biography", a seriously well-researched book from a scion of one of the leading Jewish families of Palestine. Do give it a read, it's an amazing book.