A negotiated compromise is better.

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let a dozen randomly selected citizens from each Israel and Iran work out a compromise. i bet they will come within a rather short time to a fair agreement. the political àssholes of each side will keep on with their warmongering rubbish which leads to nowhere except perhaps to a catastrophe that nobody wants.

to smoothen out initial friction i envisage JT being le maître en charge to provide to the negotiating parties a variety of [not so] kosher and [not so] halal food and drinks. if the drinks are carefully selected the result should be the Iranian delegation chanting "Hava Nagila" interpunctuated with "Allahuh Akbar" by the Israeli delegation.

let me have my dreams please. thank you, toda, shukran!

I think there is a legitimate point of disagreement here which is at the core of the Iranian issue. Does Iran really believe Israel/USA will attack before they have nuclear weapons capability? I think they do; the hawks think they don't. Right now I do think Israel believes the USA will attack (and/or support their attack) if needed.

A negotiated compromise is better.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect App

let a dozen randomly selected citizens from each Israel and Iran work out a compromise. i bet they will come within a rather short time to a fair agreement. the political àssholes of each side will keep on with their warmongering rubbish which leads to nowhere except perhaps to a catastrophe that nobody wants.

to smoothen out initial friction i envisage JT being le maître en charge to provide to the negotiating parties a variety of [not so] kosher and [not so] halal food and drinks. if the drinks are carefully selected the result should be the Iranian delegation chanting "Hava Nagila" interpunctuated with "Allahuh Akbar" by the Israeli delegation.

let me have my dreams please. thank you, toda, shukran!

Rather a lot of dreams in this thread already, naam.

The Zionists are living a dream.... so is Ahmedinejab. While I sympathise with the former and abhor the latter, I doubt whether the Zionist dream will last very long, and only God knows what will happen to Ahmedinejab and the Ayatollahs.

Leave it to the politicians, and you will have Armageddon; give it back to the people, on both sides, and there is a chance of peace.

Not all Zionists are the same. I think SOME Zionists are living in a dream. Then there are those who are more realistic who really want to work towards a just two state solution. The more rational Zionists gained a bit more power in the last Israeli election. In my view anyone who supports Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state is a Zionist. That includes many non-Jews and of course some Jews are not Zionists (but most are).

Yes, Virginia, I do think President Obama is a Zionist.

Not all Zionists are the same. I think SOME Zionists are living in a dream. Then there are those who are more realistic who really want to work towards a just two state solution. The more rational Zionists gained a bit more power in the last Israeli election. In my view anyone who supports Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state is a Zionist. That includes many non-Jews and of course some Jews are not Zionists (but most are).

Yes, Virginia, I do think President Obama is a Zionist.

Jewish, my tuchus.

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/caroline-glick/the-meaning-and-consequences-of-israels-apology-to-turkey/

By forcing Israel to apologize to Turkey, Obama effectively forced Israel to acknowledge that it is in the wrong for lawful actions by its military taken in defense of international law and of Israel’s national security. That is, Obama sided with the aggressor – Turkey – over the victim – Israel. And in so doing, he signaled, deliberately or inadvertently, to the rest of Israel’s neighbors that the US is no longer siding with Israel in regional disputes. As a consequence, they now feel that it is reasonable for them to press their advantage and demand further Israeli apologies for daring to defend itself from their aggression.

I don't recall Erdogan being asked to apologize or retract his statement that Zionism is a crime against humanity following Kerry's recent visit to Ankara.

It's in Israel's best long term interest to sometimes be flexible. The SENSIBLE Zionists like Obama understand that quite well.

Obama is NOT a Zionist. He wishes that Israel did not exist.

Obama is NOT a Zionist. He wishes that Israel did not exist.

We'll never agree on that.

He isn't a right wing Zionist though and that's a GOOD thing.

Sorry, JT, but you obviously do not understand what a Zionist is, or believes.

Please read up on Theodore Herzl, check Amazon, they have a TH page.

Although the Dreyfuss Affair is often thought to have inspired him, it was only one of many events that helped to coalesce ideas that he had been jotting down for decades - and not all of these ideas are warm and fuzzy.

He expected to have to throw out all non-Jewish people from the land to become Israel.

He expected to use the indigenous inhavbitants as serfs, to clear away all difficulties in the land before expelling such indegenes.

Although I accept, even approve such ideas, many people would hesitate to utter them. Yet they are at the basis of the foundations of Zionism. I recall a dinner - maybe forty years or more ago - where I and several other Jews were discussing Israel and the 67 war. My statement was 'Israel, right or wrong' - which I believed then and still do today - but we then had a four-hour heated discussion during which the six of us in the diuscussion had about ten different aspects of the Jewish State to put forward. And we were all living in the same apartment block, all much of an age, similar incomes and so on. It was one of the best evenings I remember, but there was no consensus. And I was - in my opinion - the only Zionist proponent.

Words can be used as labels, but make sure the package inside is correctly labelled - in my opinion Obama could never even understand how a Zionist thinks, let alone be described as one.

I understand Jews in Israel had to get very hard core to make the state happen. It's like you're saying you can't be for a two state solution and be a Zionist and I KNOW that is not the truth.

I have read different things about what Herzl expected as far as Arab relations, actually that he didn't think it was going to be a big source of conflict. Whatever Herzl thought exactly, my definition of Zionism is still valid and very similar can be found in mainstream sources for the definition of Zionism.

Of course as an old father of a country, he wasn't perfect. George Washington had slaves. Doesn't change his high standing to Americans. That doesn't mean MODERN people have to act the same way. I understand it is very difficult to make peace with Palestinians who want to kick the Jews into the sea, but I still think its worth it to KEEP TRYING.

^

W/regard to the 'keep trying' part perhaps the Palestinians could recognize Israel's right to exist and take off the sucide vests as a start...

^

W/regard to the 'keep trying' part perhaps the Palestinians could recognize Israel's right to exist and take off the sucide vests as a start...

The walls/fences have pretty much stopped the suicide bombers. I agree about the right to exist part. Nobody said peace was likely or going to be easy but it's still in the best long run interest of all parties there.

The walls/fences are reminiscent of the Berlin Wall. They have got to go; there will be no peace with them. Unfortunately, however, there will be no peace without them. Where do you go from here?

This epitomises the impasse which the whole Israel/Palestine situation has reached. There are doubtless people of goodwill on both sides.... but somehow the people of goodwill never seem to win.

The question of what Obama, Blair et al. think is to my mind largely irrelevant. What Obama DOES about Iran is not irrelevant, though. Nor is what he DOES about Syria. Israel will not survive unless the forces of Islamic fundamentalism (of all kinds) are kept under check.

It's nothing like the Berlin Wall. The purposes are much different. The fences wouldn't need to all go right away; it would depend on the finalized borders which would have to go or be changed right away. The key thing is still the finalized borders. The fences could be phased out over time as a potential peace between the two actual states become more stable.

I think Obama has sparked the peace movement in Israel, he has touched their conscience. Between the Israelis and the Palestinians, the Israelis are much stronger and the motivation to make sacrifices has to come from somewhere. Without predicting the future, the psychology has changed even though he has angered the Palestinians, if Israel comes to the table offering more, there is going to be a better chance, and the Palestinians may find direct negotiations with Israel is the better path as opposed to screaming to the UN without Israel's buy in (which will never work for them).

The walls/fences are reminiscent of the Berlin Wall. They have got to go; there will be no peace with them. Unfortunately, however, there will be no peace without them. Where do you go from here?

This epitomises the impasse which the whole Israel/Palestine situation has reached. There are doubtless people of goodwill on both sides.... but somehow the people of goodwill never seem to win.

The question of what Obama, Blair et al. think is to my mind largely irrelevant. What Obama DOES about Iran is not irrelevant, though. Nor is what he DOES about Syria. Israel will not survive unless the forces of Islamic fundamentalism (of all kinds) are kept under check.

In Belfast the walls are still there, but for most people the political solution has been accepted. The walls will come down - there is discussion about it now, action will surely follow and hopefully a degree of fraternisation will take place within a generation or two.

But in Israel (as it was in NI) it will take goodwill from the present leaders (all of them) to achieve this. Not the rise of new, younger, more pacific leaders, but a change of heart of the current bunch of confrontational leaders, as has happened in NI. Only then will the people start to think that there is a serious possibility of achieving a peaceful solution.

Even now in Northern Ireland there is not unity. There are still the Orange marches, there are still Republicans looking to bomb the G20 meetings. But the majority of the population, both Tims and Prods, believes that the road is open and they can wal;k down it towards peace. Let's hope that someone will step up and achieve the next-to-impossible in the Middle East as well. But it won't be Obama.

Obama or any American president can only be of assistance. They can't do it for the parties involved, of course.

It's nothing like the Berlin Wall. The purposes are much different. The fences wouldn't need to all go right away; it would depend on the finalized borders which would have to go or be changed right away. The key thing is still the finalized borders. The fences could be phased out over time as a potential peace between the two actual states become more stable.

I think Obama has sparked the peace movement in Israel, he has touched their conscience. Between the Israelis and the Palestinians, the Israelis are much stronger and the motivation to make sacrifices has to come from somewhere. Without predicting the future, the psychology has changed even though he has angered the Palestinians, if Israel comes to the table offering more, there is going to be a better chance, and the Palestinians may find direct negotiations with Israel is the better path as opposed to screaming to the UN without Israel's buy in (which will never work for them).

This,and many other posts on this thread, seem to imply that it is all a matter of agreement between Israel and the Palestinians, and the eventual establishment of two states. That, of course, would be a big step in the right direction, but it would not solve the Middle East's problems. Nothing will solve those until Islamic fundamentalism, in all its various forms, has learned to live in peace with its neighbours.