Follow me here.......

I was brought up a Christian, and I still believe in a higher being, so I count myself as a non practising Christian.

The same would go for Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists etc.

Okay,

If I was brought up as a Christian, and I no longer believe in a higher being, then that would make me an atheist......correct?

The same would go for Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists etc.

So surely if you are an atheist, you should drop the descriptor? ie you cannot be a Christian atheist, a Jewish atheist, Hindu atheist etc?

Surely that's an oxymoron?

ps. Did I mention I tink too mutt?

Perhaps it gives description to underlying belief systems and social preferences?

I dunno either really....but I like Iranian food.

You can be a Jewish atheist, Jewish Buddhist, etc. because Jewish is an ETHNIC group! Christian is not.

....but I like Iranian food.

I love Iranian food. It cracks me up when they call it Persian.

An atheist is someone who does not believe in any God. (Greek a- = not, theos = God)

No, you can't be a Christian atheist or a Hindu atheist.... but you can be a Jewish atheist, because Jewish is a racial descriptor as well as a religious descriptor.

Doubtless our atheist friends will argue with me; they do about practically everything else!

An atheist is someone who does not believe in any God. (Greek a- = not, theos = God)

No, you can't be a Christian atheist or a Hindu atheist.... but you can be a Jewish atheist, because Jewish is a racial descriptor as well as a religious descriptor.

Doubtless our atheist friends will argue with me; they do about practically everything else!

Jews are not a race.

What is Judaism? What does it mean to be a Jew? Most people, both Jewish and

gentile, would instinctively say that Judaism is a religion. And yet, there are

militant atheists who insist that they are Jews! Is Judaism a race? If you were

to say so, most Jews would think you were an antisemite! So what is Judaism?

...

But setting aside the emotional issues, Jews are clearly not a race.

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

Hmmm....I can see the point in regards to the ethnic grouping, interesting.

I was under the impression that you couldn't be Jewish unless you were born of a Jewish mother.......how does that ring with ethnicity?

This is even more confusing.

Hmmm....I can see the point in regards to the ethnic grouping, interesting.

I was under the impression that you couldn't be Jewish unless you were born of a Jewish mother.......how does that ring with ethnicity?

This is even more confusing.

Jewish culture is matrileneal, anthropologically speaking and being born of a Jewish mother makes it easier to claim right of return to Israel.

You can convert to Judaism but it isn't easy. It's not unusual for a Jewish man to marry a non-Jewish woman and then the woman converts and then the children are then Jewish.

There are black Jews, Chinese Jews, Indian Jews, Latino Jews, blonde haired blue eyed Jews, etc.

If there are any Thai Jews, I'd like to meet them!

There's an interesting answer here on Yahoo answers.....

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090304220051AANEwK2

What's your thoughts on that? It seems to indicate that although there are Jewish ethnic groups, Jews are not.

Someone who renounces their religion is known as an apostate, which can be a little more serious than being referred to as an atheist. I take your point though and also wonder why a child is automatically given the same religion as the parents decide, without them ever making an informed choice - It does not follow for supporting football teams after all.

Someone who renounces their religion is known as an apostate, which can be a little more serious than being referred to as an atheist. I take your point though and also wonder why a child is automatically given the same religion as the parents decide, without them ever making an informed choice - It does not follow for supporting football teams after all.

I wasn't given any religion. I was given lox and bagels and it was good. Then came the Woody Allen movies. And the rest is history.

To expand on this a bit, I consider myself what many would call a "cultural" Jew. No connection to the religious belief system at all. Aren't there also "cultural" other religions as well? Such as a "cultural" Buddhist?

Jews are not an ethnic group. They are a religion and you are not a Christian unless you believe that the God of the old testament is real and that accepting Jesus as savior is the only way to heaven. I was raised as a Catholic and now believe in a higher power, but I'm not sure about the rest.

Jews are not an ethnic group. They are a religion and you are not a Christian unless you believe that the God of the old testament is real and that accepting Jesus as savior is the only way to heaven. I was raised as a Catholic and now believe in a higher power, but I'm not sure about the rest.

OK, I'm not Jewish then. That's a relief.

Whatever makes you sleep better at night.

Whatever makes you sleep better at night.

“You can’t be a Jew like you wear a sweater. Too cold, put it on. Too hot, take it off.”

Renee Calarco, ‘The Religion Thing,’

"There are black Jews, Chinese Jews, Indian Jews, Latino Jews, blonde haired blue eyed Jews, etc"

Exactly. That is why it is not a race or an ethnic group.

Jews are not an ethnic group. They are a religion and you are not a Christian unless you believe that the God of the old testament is real and that accepting Jesus as savior is the only way to heaven. I was raised as a Catholic and now believe in a higher power, but I'm not sure about the rest.

OK, I'm not Jewish then. That's a relief.

Wrong place and time and you'd still be a full yellow star though.

Well at least JT can lose that label now, assuming he is an atheist?

....but I like Iranian food.

I love Iranian food. It cracks me up when they call it Persian.

Persian sells better in the USA than Iranian via geographical confusion and a few geopolitical issues.

Similarly very few "Indian" restaurants in the UK are actually run by Indians with the vast majority being Bangladeshi, some Pakistani and a tiny number Indian.

"Popping out for a Bangladeshi" doesn't really trip off the tongue....!

Jews are not an ethnic group. They are a religion and you are not a Christian unless you believe that the God of the old testament is real and that accepting Jesus as savior is the only way to heaven. I was raised as a Catholic and now believe in a higher power, but I'm not sure about the rest.

For once Wikipedia is pretty good, at least on this point...

Jewishness is both a religion and an ethnicity, see below:

Jewish ethnic divisions refers to a number of distinctive communities within the world's ethnically Jewish population. Although considered one single self-identifying ethnicity, there are distinctive ethnic divisions among Jews, most of which are primarily the result of geographic branching from an originating Israelite population, and subsequent independent evolutions.^[1]

As long ago as Biblical times, cultural and linguistic differences between Jewish communities, even within the area of Ancient Israel and Judea, are observed both within the Bible itself as well as from archeological remains. In more recent human history, an array of Jewish communities were established by Jewish settlers in various places around the Old World, often at great distances from one another resulting in effective and often long-term isolation from each other. During the millennia of the Jewish diaspora the communities would develop under the influence of their local environments; political, cultural, natural and populational. Today, manifestation of these differences among the Jews can be observed in Jewish cultural expressions of each community, including Jewish linguistic diversity, culinary preferences, liturgical practices, religious interpretations, as well as degrees and sources of genetic admixture.

"Self identifying ethnicity" is the clue. How can a bunch of different races form one ethnic group except in their own mind?

I'm with U.G. on this one.......I can't see how you can self identify as an ethnic group.

Steely Dan makes an interesting point re being an apostate, which can have fatal consequences in some regressive parts of the World, and in regressive minds elsewhere

I would say being an apostate trumps being an atheist in the way I described in the OP, would the correct descriptor be, being an apostate with atheistic beliefs? Or is that a nonsense?.

Should we be correcting people who say they used to be christian etc but now they are atheist? I bet most down know they are apostate.

"There are black Jews, Chinese Jews, Indian Jews, Latino Jews, blonde haired blue eyed Jews, etc"

Exactly. That is why it is not a race or an ethnic group.

In an earlier post, I described Jews as a religion or a race (ethnic group if you dislike the word race). I'd always assumed that black Jews etc were Jews by virtue of following the Jewish faith. So, a question for you, Jingthing.

If the descendant of a black Jew apostasises, is he still a Jew? More pertinent, is his son a Jew? If so, what factor makes them Jewish, if not religion?

I'm with U.G. on this one.......I can't see how you can self identify as an ethnic group.

Steely Dan makes an interesting point re being an apostate, which can have fatal consequences in some regressive parts of the World, and in regressive minds elsewhere

I would say being an apostate trumps being an atheist in the way I described in the OP, would the correct descriptor be, being an apostate with atheistic beliefs? Or is that a nonsense?.

Should we be correcting people who say they used to be christian etc but now they are atheist? I bet most down know they are apostate.

Apostasy and atheism are not directly comparable.

Apostasy means rejecting a religion which you once followed. So those who used to be Christian are indeed apostates. They may also be atheists.

Most apostates are probably agnostics, i.e. they don't know whether religion of any type is true or not.

"There are black Jews, Chinese Jews, Indian Jews, Latino Jews, blonde haired blue eyed Jews, etc"

Exactly. That is why it is not a race or an ethnic group.

In an earlier post, I described Jews as a religion or a race (ethnic group if you dislike the word race). I'd always assumed that black Jews etc were Jews by virtue of following the Jewish faith. So, a question for you, Jingthing.

If the descendant of a black Jew apostasises, is he still a Jew? More pertinent, is his son a Jew? If so, what factor makes them Jewish, if not religion?

The difference between ethnicity and race is NOT trivial even though you obviously think that it is.

More on the IMPORTANT distinction between race and ethnicity:

http://www.pbs.org/race/000_About/002_04-experts-03-02.htm

Thanks, JT.... but you haven't answered my question.

Thanks, JT.... but you haven't answered my question.

I think I have.

Also with due respect, I ain't a "Jew in a box" who answers all questions how you would like on demand.

However, this service IS available in BERLIN:

Actually this video is very good. One of the Jews in a Box addresses some of the issues being discussed here.

"There are black Jews, Chinese Jews, Indian Jews, Latino Jews, blonde haired blue eyed Jews, etc"

Exactly. That is why it is not a race or an ethnic group.

In an earlier post, I described Jews as a religion or a race (ethnic group if you dislike the word race). I'd always assumed that black Jews etc were Jews by virtue of following the Jewish faith. So, a question for you, Jingthing.

If the descendant of a black Jew apostasises, is he still a Jew? More pertinent, is his son a Jew? If so, what factor makes them Jewish, if not religion?

Benjamin Disraeli's father was an apostate.

Bennie D. became Prime Minister of the UK at a time when Catholics and Jews were forbidden the vote and to be Members of Parliament, so in the UK at least the descendant of an apostate is no longer regarded as being (by faith or by race) a member of the race/creed in which his father was born.