I expect the woman in blue walking by from her shopping trip is a "moderate" Muslim that doesn't want to get involved or really care.

Watch the video of the rant and see her stroll past without so much as breaking stride...at the 50 second mark.

Obviously you alone can identify a moderate Muslim female...Quite why do you think she is Muslim? Woolwich has a very diverse population of all ethnicities, races and creeds, but perhaps your comment is like those of the muppets who thought the murdering scum bag in the hat was a Somali.

Living with them for over 30 years have given me special insight. Nope, I never thought he was a Somali. You?

Having lived in Islamic countries for nearly 30 years and having many Muslim friends, let me state the huge majority of Muslims are peace loving people. Having said that, there are also quite a few that are not as peace loving as the majority.

Doing a little Googling has now informed me that something between 1% and 7% of Muslims are considered extremists.

Further to that, doing a little math I come up with the following conclusion.

1. There are 1.6 BILLION Muslims in the world.

2. Taking the lowest figure of 1% and applying that to 1.6 Billion gives me 16 MILLION extremists.

3. Taking into consideration that 25% of them would not carry out a terrorist attack in any event, I am left with 12 Million potential soldiers.

4. This 12 million potential soldiers is more than the combined active duty personnel of the 10 largest armies in the world...combined.

5. Now by taking out the females and children, let's say that males make up only 25% of the 12 Million extremist soldiers.

6. That leaves us with a grand total of 3 Million potential soldiers, which is 750,000 soldiers more than the total active duty personnel of the People's Republic of China military.

And none of them will be willing to sit down around a campfire and roast marshmallows with a non-believer.

A lot less than 1% of the Muslims I know are extremists. None of the pubs in KL have been blown up in the time I've been here, to the best of my knowledge. Certainly, none of the ones I go to. Try re-running your figures with one in a million.

What proportion of Christians are Extemists?

SC

I don't know, you tell me what percentage of Christians are extremists. Any of them blowing up pubs in KL?

OK, for argument's sake, let's cut it to 1 in a million. That would mean a standing army of suicide bombers numbering 1.6 million.

Got your attention yet?

It'll get your arithmetic teacher's attention, anyway.

SC

Yes, I realized about 0300 this morning my totals were a tad off. Unfortunately my internet has been off until now so no way to get back and re-post it correctly.

Your 1 in a million terrorist theory would in fact only call for a total of 1,600 terrorists and, since many more than that number have already committed suicide bombings or been sent to their maker in terror attacks, it is safe to say the supply of Muslims is now used up.

The world is safe.

Calling for the death penalty for these people is just playing into their hands. Don't you realise that they want to die? Execution is a quick route to heaven.

BTW, I saw somewhere that they were not Somalis, but British-born Christian Nigerians who had converted to Islam. Sorry I can't find the reference.

correct, not immigrants. And raised Christian.

I expect the woman in blue walking by from her shopping trip is a "moderate" Muslim that doesn't want to get involved or really care.

Watch the video of the rant and see her stroll past without so much as breaking stride...at the 50 second mark.

She probably just assumed it was a Halal butcher at work.

I don't know if you will all be able to access this link...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151925108569535&set=vb.645364534&type=2&theater

Let me know if not, and I'll try to download and upload it

SC

This is exactly what is needed, straight talking, unequivocal condemnation instead of mealy mouthed evasion. This is the sort of person the UK government should be engaging with whilst at the same time systematically scouring all Mosques for materials leading to radicalization and also scrutinizing where they are funded from and where any charitable fund raising they do goes to. Alas, it seems we defer to those who speak for Muslims from foreign nations where democracy is not a recognized concept.

French anti-terror soldier has throat slashed in Paris by 'man of North African origin in Woolwich copy-cat attack'

The attack on a soldier in Paris was being treated as a 'terrorist incident', said a source at the Paris prosecutors office.

Full Story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2330749/French-anti-terror-soldier-throat-slashed-jihab-wearing-maniac-North-African-origin-patrol-Paris.html

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

I don't know if you will all be able to access this link...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151925108569535&set=vb.645364534&type=2&theater

Let me know if not, and I'll try to download and upload it

SC

This is exactly what is needed, straight talking, unequivocal condemnation instead of mealy mouthed evasion. This is the sort of person the UK government should be engaging with whilst at the same time systematically scouring all Mosques for materials leading to radicalization and also scrutinizing where they are funded from and where any charitable fund raising they do goes to. Alas, it seems we defer to those who speak for Muslims from foreign nations where democracy is not a recognized concept.

Yes, we must condemn these people, including those who support them, as various Imams have. Expel them without appeal. The one thing which would be wrong would be execution, as it's playing into their hands.

I don't know if you will all be able to access this link...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151925108569535&set=vb.645364534&type=2&theater

Let me know if not, and I'll try to download and upload it

SC

This is exactly what is needed, straight talking, unequivocal condemnation instead of mealy mouthed evasion. This is the sort of person the UK government should be engaging with whilst at the same time systematically scouring all Mosques for materials leading to radicalization and also scrutinizing where they are funded from and where any charitable fund raising they do goes to. Alas, it seems we defer to those who speak for Muslims from foreign nations where democracy is not a recognized concept.

Yes, we must condemn these people, including those who support them, as various Imams have. Expel them without appeal. The one thing which would be wrong would be execution, as it's playing into their hands.

We should apply to them the same rules that we apply to people of our own colour and faith. I fear we would be expelling many of our own citizens of a right wing persuasion if we set the precedent that you are suggesting. Should we have exiled Enoch Powell?

SC

We should apply to them the same rules that we apply to people of our own colour and faith. I fear we would be expelling many of our own citizens of a right wing persuasion if we set the precedent that you are suggesting. Should we have exiled Enoch Powell? (quote from Street Cowboy)

Not quite, because we have somehow to keep the number of immigrants within the number which we can absorb into the community; therefore we can apply somewhat stricter rules to them.

Enoch Powell should have been exiled to the Classics Dept. of Oxford or Cambridge, where he would have done well, and nobody would have listened to him.

Enoch Powell forecast the situation we have in parts of the UK.

His view was somewhat distorted but the underlying premise has come to pass in many cities.

Here is his 'Rivers of Blood' speech - in full.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Rivers-of-Blood-speech.html

This speech has been mis-reported by most of the media, as were many of EPs comments and speeches. The man was a true British patriot, concerned about the way the PC people and Socialist idiocy were taking the UK. And he was right.

Enoch Powell forecast the situation we have in parts of the UK.

His view was somewhat distorted but the underlying premise has come to pass in many cities.

Here is his 'Rivers of Blood' speech - in full.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Rivers-of-Blood-speech.html

This speech has been mis-reported by most of the media, as were many of EPs comments and speeches. The man was a true British patriot, concerned about the way the PC people and Socialist idiocy were taking the UK. And he was right.

Thanks, HB. I'd never read it before. He was right, but too forthright. If you tell your opponents they're halfwits, they won't listen to you; you have to find some way of sugaring the pill.

Yes, we must condemn these people, including those who support them, as various Imams have. Expel them without appeal. The one thing which would be wrong would be execution, as it's playing into their hands.

OK, I gotta ask. "Expel without appeal" Does this apply to only non-UK citizens?

Well the two guys involved in this particular incident were born in the UK. Lived there their whole lives. So are you saying expel them to where exactly?

Or perhaps you are saying only expel the ones who don't "look British"? If so, would a DNA test be required or would it only be based on apparent skin color? And if they are citizens, as these men are, where would have them go?

I have read about this on here and other forums.

And, everywhere, no one said anything about the women who stood up to the scum that did this. Where were the big strong men able to rugby tackle these guys? Too busy twittering and trying to make a few bucks filming a horrific murder within yards of them.

I am not a full blown feminist, but those ladies had more balls than anyone there. While people were texting, twattering, filming those women went over and cuddled the poor guy, covered him up to save his dignity etc.

They deserve a medal....

And i have read that men were frightened to intervene because they may have got hurt too... Gimme a break! Everyone jokes about English people being on the large side, those guys who did that are wee skinny africans, it would have taken two large guys to take them out.

Yes, we must condemn these people, including those who support them, as various Imams have. Expel them without appeal. The one thing which would be wrong would be execution, as it's playing into their hands.

OK, I gotta ask. "Expel without appeal" Does this apply to only non-UK citizens?

Well the two guys involved in this particular incident were born in the UK. Lived there their whole lives. So are you saying expel them to where exactly?

Or perhaps you are saying only expel the ones who don't "look British"? If so, would a DNA test be required or would it only be based on apparent skin color? And if they are citizens, as these men are, where would have them go?

Fair comment, SBK!

As they were British citizens, the only real option is to lock them up and throw away the key.

Yes, we must condemn these people, including those who support them, as various Imams have. Expel them without appeal. The one thing which would be wrong would be execution, as it's playing into their hands.

OK, I gotta ask. "Expel without appeal" Does this apply to only non-UK citizens?

Well the two guys involved in this particular incident were born in the UK. Lived there their whole lives. So are you saying expel them to where exactly?

Or perhaps you are saying only expel the ones who don't "look British"? If so, would a DNA test be required or would it only be based on apparent skin color? And if they are citizens, as these men are, where would have them go?

Fair comment, SBK!

As they were British citizens, the only real option is to lock them up and throw away the key.

Or send them to some State (Country) that is run along the lines they wish to live....................

Yes, we must condemn these people, including those who support them, as various Imams have. Expel them without appeal. The one thing which would be wrong would be execution, as it's playing into their hands.

OK, I gotta ask. "Expel without appeal" Does this apply to only non-UK citizens?

Well the two guys involved in this particular incident were born in the UK. Lived there their whole lives. So are you saying expel them to where exactly?

Or perhaps you are saying only expel the ones who don't "look British"? If so, would a DNA test be required or would it only be based on apparent skin color? And if they are citizens, as these men are, where would have them go?

Fair comment, SBK!

As they were British citizens, the only real option is to lock them up and throw away the key.

Which is almost certainly what will happen. A life sentence with a whole life tariff; i.e. no possibility of parole or early release on licence.

At least, I sincerely hope so.

I have read about this on here and other forums.

And, everywhere, no one said anything about the women who stood up to the scum that did this. Where were the big strong men able to rugby tackle these guys? Too busy twittering and trying to make a few bucks filming a horrific murder within yards of them.

I am not a full blown feminist, but those ladies had more balls than anyone there. While people were texting, twattering, filming those women went over and cuddled the poor guy, covered him up to save his dignity etc.

They deserve a medal....

And i have read that men were frightened to intervene because they may have got hurt too... Gimme a break! Everyone jokes about English people being on the large side, those guys who did that are wee skinny africans, it would have taken two large guys to take them out.

It's nothing to do with feminism, so whY make it out that way?

Women are often far better at defusing violent situations, something from my previous work experience I have learnt.

Irrespective, a young British soldier, Lee Rigby was murdered by Islamic radical scum. Now, lets see what the government and police do about the hate preachers and other radical <deleted> that see, to hate the country so much. I don't think anyone is suggesting that all Muslims are the same, only those who want to defend the indefensible.

Enoch Powell forecast the situation we have in parts of the UK.

His view was somewhat distorted but the underlying premise has come to pass in many cities.

Here is his 'Rivers of Blood' speech - in full.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Rivers-of-Blood-speech.html

This speech has been mis-reported by most of the media, as were many of EPs comments and speeches. The man was a true British patriot, concerned about the way the PC people and Socialist idiocy were taking the UK. And he was right.

Agreed.

Wonderful approach to confronting the EDL...tea, biccies and footy. Winning combination.

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2013/05/28/edl-defeated-by-a-cup-of-tea?link=related

How very British! Obviously this group are well-integrated!

Wonderful approach to confronting the EDL...tea, biccies and footy. Winning combination.

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2013/05/28/edl-defeated-by-a-cup-of-tea?link=related

After several EDL members were offered tea by a York mosque, the EDL has offered to supply largely teetotal UK Muslims with high-strength lager.

By sharing each other’s favourite tipple, the two rival communities hope to forge a new sense of togetherness based on standing side by side in a urinal.

EDL member Simon Williams said, “Race-hate is thirsty work and after a hard day baiting immigrants there’s nothing I like more than to sober up with a mug of tea and a Rich Tea biscuit.”

“Those Muslims in York were just starting to open up to us. Imagine how much progress we would have made if they’d been completely rat-arsed?”

EDL welcome Muslims

Mosque owner Imam Abdullah Ataturk said, “The tea went down very well then one of the skinheads asked us if we had anything stronger.”

“That started me thinking.”

“Tea, biscuits and Kestrel lager are a great and typically Yorkshire combination when it comes to disarming hostile and extremist views. Why didn’t we think of this before?”

Ataturk added, “You’re alright you are , no you are , you’re my best mate. Come and giz a hug.”

Williams responded, “Whether you like it or not, Islam is as much a part of our fackin’ cultural identity as Fish and fackin’ Chips.”

“Its rich strands permeate our society shining a light into our impoverished souls and … do you know where the bogs are in here?”

“Yeah, I’m not going to firebomb the place. I’ve had a word with the lads and we’re happy to leave it at putting the windows through.”

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Calling for the death penalty for these people is just playing into their hands. Don't you realise that they want to die? Execution is a quick route to heaven.

BTW, I saw somewhere that they were not Somalis, but British-born Christian Nigerians who had converted to Islam. Sorry I can't find the reference.

An American commander in Afghanistan put it well. They want to meet god, we're just facilitating the meeting.

Calling for the death penalty for these people is just playing into their hands. Don't you realise that they want to die? Execution is a quick route to heaven.

BTW, I saw somewhere that they were not Somalis, but British-born Christian Nigerians who had converted to Islam. Sorry I can't find the reference.

An American commander in Afghanistan put it well. They want to meet god, we're just facilitating the meeting.

A nice way to put it, but a thoroughly silly attitude all the same!

Calling for the death penalty for these people is just playing into their hands. Don't you realise that they want to die? Execution is a quick route to heaven. BTW, I saw somewhere that they were not Somalis, but British-born Christian Nigerians who had converted to Islam. Sorry I can't find the reference.

An American commander in Afghanistan put it well. They want to meet god, we're just facilitating the meeting.

A nice way to put it, but a thoroughly silly attitude all the same!

And more importantly while every ISAF death corrodes public opinion and hastens the date of withdrawal, every Taliban death creates another grudge against the foreign invaders and more people willing to take up arms.

The actual number of Taliban dead is unknown (and is deliberately kept that way), but is probably north of 75,000 compared to 3313 ISAF and approx. 20,000 ANA and police. But as seen in Vietnam playing the body count game can be counter-productive, conducive to atrocities with civilian dead counted as insurgents, and ultimately does little to achieve political objectives.

Tragically both Afghan and Iraq highlight how waging a war with insufficient forces on the ground and unclear/fluid political objectives leads to ultimate failure at huge cost in terms of money, blood and reputation.

If this thread had started off "Young man knifed to death in Woolwich" it may have attracted significantly different comments.

If this thread had started off "Young man knifed to death in Woolwich" it may have attracted significantly different comments.

But to be honest that's a somewhat fatuous comment, as this was not a purely criminal murder as your headline would suggest.

Terrorism is a very distinct and politically driven animal.

In Ulster a non terrorist event was termed as ODC (ordinary decent criminal) to highlight the distinction.

Also please can we move on from the EDL and its "erudite" self appointed, petty criminal and drunken dingbat "leader" of many names and no morals. A specimen with a long charge sheet covering drug dealing, money laundering, assaulting his wife (delicious irony when he accuse Islam of sanctioning wife beating), assaulting a police officer and common assault of one of his henchmen. Born of Irish immigrants, in a community infamous for its logistic and financial support of PIRA terrorism, this toe rag then became an illegal immigrant into the USA in order to sit at the feet of his islamophobe mentors ( and hopefully get gullible Tea Party types to fund his lifestyle).

Dingbat's "eloquence" is merely a case of parroting lines learnt from the likes of Geller and Spencer. Reminds me of some other folk....

If this thread had started off "Young man knifed to death in Woolwich" it may have attracted significantly different comments.

But to be honest that's a somewhat fatuous comment, as this was not a purely criminal murder as your headline would suggest.

Terrorism is a very distinct and politically driven animal.

In Ulster a non terrorist event was termed as ODC (ordinary decent criminal) to highlight the distinction.

Also please can we move on from the EDL and its "erudite" self appointed, petty criminal and drunken dingbat "leader" of many names and no morals. A specimen with a long charge sheet covering drug dealing, money laundering, assaulting his wife (delicious irony when he accuse Islam of sanctioning wife beating), assaulting a police officer and common assault of one of his henchmen. Born of Irish immigrants, in a community infamous for its logistic and financial support of PIRA terrorism, this toe rag then became an illegal immigrant into the USA in order to sit at the feet of his islamophobe mentors ( and hopefully get gullible Tea Party types to fund his lifestyle).

Dingbat's "eloquence" is merely a case of parroting lines learnt from the likes of Geller and Spencer. Reminds me of some other folk....

You can call it terrorism if you want, but it was two silly young English boys murdering another young Englishman for whatever reason.

As it happens, the intention was to upset people and gain publicity. If it had been a failed bank robbery, would we have had a whip-round for the offenders, to make sure it was worth their while?

Rather than getting upset about Muslims, why not worry about why young English Christians are attracted to join anti-social groups? If we could answer that, the EDL would benefit from the reduced membership as much as any Muslim extremist organisation, and there'd probably be a lot less casual knife crime as well.

SC

If this thread had started off "Young man knifed to death in Woolwich" it may have attracted significantly different comments.

But to be honest that's a somewhat fatuous comment, as this was not a purely criminal murder as your headline would suggest.

Terrorism is a very distinct and politically driven animal.

In Ulster a non terrorist event was termed as ODC (ordinary decent criminal) to highlight the distinction.

Also please can we move on from the EDL and its "erudite" self appointed, petty criminal and drunken dingbat "leader" of many names and no morals. A specimen with a long charge sheet covering drug dealing, money laundering, assaulting his wife (delicious irony when he accuse Islam of sanctioning wife beating), assaulting a police officer and common assault of one of his henchmen. Born of Irish immigrants, in a community infamous for its logistic and financial support of PIRA terrorism, this toe rag then became an illegal immigrant into the USA in order to sit at the feet of his islamophobe mentors ( and hopefully get gullible Tea Party types to fund his lifestyle).

Dingbat's "eloquence" is merely a case of parroting lines learnt from the likes of Geller and Spencer. Reminds me of some other folk....

Ok how about

"75 year old man knifed in the back in Birmingham" ??

Does that not deserve some attention?

 

Having lived in Islamic countries for nearly 30 years and having many Muslim friends, let me state the huge majority of Muslims are peace loving people. Having said that, there are also quite a few that are not as peace loving as the majority.

Doing a little Googling has now informed me that something between 1% and 7% of Muslims are considered extremists.

Further to that, doing a little math I come up with the following conclusion.

1. There are 1.6 BILLION Muslims in the world.

2. Taking the lowest figure of 1% and applying that to 1.6 Billion gives me 16 MILLION extremists.

3. Taking into consideration that 25% of them would not carry out a terrorist attack in any event, I am left with 12 Million potential soldiers.

4. This 12 million potential soldiers is more than the combined active duty personnel of the 10 largest armies in the world...combined.

5. Now by taking out the females and children, let's say that males make up only 25% of the 12 Million extremist soldiers.

6. That leaves us with a grand total of 3 Million potential soldiers, which is 750,000 soldiers more than the total active duty personnel of the People's Republic of China military.

And none of them will be willing to sit down around a campfire and roast marshmallows with a non-believer.

A lot less than 1% of the Muslims I know are extremists. None of the pubs in KL have been blown up in the time I've been here, to the best of my knowledge. Certainly, none of the ones I go to. Try re-running your figures with one in a million.

What proportion of Christians are Extemists?

SC

 

Ahem.....so how many hundreds or thousands of muslims DO you know well enough to know if they are extremists or not ?

on the odd chance you havnt done your math, 1% is 1/100