Meanwhile, back on topic. A Muslim (One of the tiny minority no doubt) slashed his two friends with a knife after they voiced support for Lee Rigby.

http://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/10468731.Man_alleged_to_have_slashed_friends_after_they_voiced_support_for_Woolwich_victim__Lee_Rigby/

The accused is Sudanese without even sufficient English to enter a plea, just the sort of culture enrichment this Country needs. In other news a video circulated from one of the festering holes of extremism, aka a UK university, alleged the murder did not happen and was a conspiracy to make Muslims look bad. Thus far 300,000 of the tiny minority have watched the video.

Nothing happens everyday, It's only a small minority and they are working alone.

Here's a gang of Pakistanis taking a cricket bat to some teenage girls waiting at a bus stop in Ashton-Under-Lyme. Of course you don't have to worry about no go zones with racism against white people if you drink your chai latte in the guardian coffee shop then return home to leafy suburbia. I guess these animals would not have passed Norman Tebbit's cricket test.

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3766/tensions_high_in_british_town_after_muslim_youths_attack_white_girls

P.S The video is only on liveleak, youtube took it down probably to avoid damaging community cohesion.

It would not suprise me if this is connected to the Pakistani grooming/traficking gangs that operate in the U.K.

It's so serious and widespread now that the police have their own special task force for dealing with these matters.

Sadly it is overworked and underfunded.

CCC

Though not directly concerned with violence, it does give the lie to the suggestion that immigrants to Britain are layabouts living off benefits.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/13/male-employment-rate-immigrants-oecd

Foreign-born men in Britain have enjoyed higher levels of employment since the financial crisis struck than men born in the country, a leading thinktank has found.

Despite a drop in employment during the economic downturn, male migrants in the UK had higher levels of employment than "native-born" men from 2007 onwards, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) said.

More posts from some about crimes committed by people who are probably Muslims.

Presumably to try and convince us that all Muslims are the same.

Using this logic, all those who express support for the EDL must also support assaulting police officers, wife beating and the other crimes Yaxely-Lennon has been convicted of!

But prejudice and logic never go together.

There is no moral equivalency between wife beating and blowing up thousands of innocent men, women and children. There is no comparison between the EDL and radical Muslim terrorists.

I am not sure that the victims of Yaxely-Lennon's assaults would agree with you.

You have obviously missed the point.

The vast majority of British Muslims are as outraged by the murder of Drummer Rigby as you and I.

The vast majority of British Muslims abhor the acts of Muslim terrorists as much as you and I.

Yet this topic has degenerated into a sort of competition to find as many crimes committed by a Muslim as possible and use those crimes as some sort of evidence that all Muslims are evil.

So, if you believe that all Muslims are bad because some Muslims are criminals, then you must also believe that all EDL supporters are bad because their leader is a violent convicted criminal.

Both beliefs are equally meritless and based upon prejudice, not logic.

So, do you get it now?

Interesting how many posts it's been since anyone, except me, has mentioned Drummer Rigby, let alone used his name. Isn't his appalling murder what this topic is supposed to be about?

Seems that certain posters merely want to use his murder as an excuse to air their prejudices; something his family expressed publicly they did not want.

I am not sure that the victims of Yaxely-Lennon's assaults would agree with you.

You have obviously missed the point.

The vast majority of British Muslims are as outraged by the murder of Drummer Rigby as you and I.

The vast majority of British Muslims abhor the acts of Muslim terrorists as much as you and I.

Yet this topic has degenerated into a sort of competition to find as many crimes committed by a Muslim as possible and use those crimes as some sort of evidence that all Muslims are evil.

So, if you believe that all Muslims are bad because some Muslims are criminals, then you must also believe that all EDL supporters are bad because their leader is a violent convicted criminal.

Both beliefs are equally meritless and based upon prejudice, not logic.

So, do you get it now?

Interesting how many posts it's been since anyone, except me, has mentioned Drummer Rigby, let alone used his name. Isn't his appalling murder what this topic is supposed to be about?

Seems that certain posters merely want to use his murder as an excuse to air their prejudices; something his family expressed publicly they did not want.

Everyone on here feels the pain that's why they are posting not because of some left-wing racist ideology.

You can not help but go slightly of topic because of the vocal motivation behind the the Islamist's decapitation and murder.

The more deeply, Muslims are involved in their faith, the more they become radicalized

And aggressive, because Allah demands it!....Read the Koran, their thinking is totally different to ours! Your kindness does not count for Islam! The only thing that does count, is WORLD DOMINATIO. AS IS IN THEIR DOCTRINE AS THE FIRST GOAL FOR ISLAM! Islam is evil!

RIP Lee Rigby

CCC

I am not sure that the victims of Yaxely-Lennon's assaults would agree with you.

You have obviously missed the point.

The vast majority of British Muslims are as outraged by the murder of Drummer Rigby as you and I.

The vast majority of British Muslims abhor the acts of Muslim terrorists as much as you and I.

Yet this topic has degenerated into a sort of competition to find as many crimes committed by a Muslim as possible and use those crimes as some sort of evidence that all Muslims are evil.

So, if you believe that all Muslims are bad because some Muslims are criminals, then you must also believe that all EDL supporters are bad because their leader is a violent convicted criminal.

Both beliefs are equally meritless and based upon prejudice, not logic.

So, do you get it now?

Interesting how many posts it's been since anyone, except me, has mentioned Drummer Rigby, let alone used his name. Isn't his appalling murder what this topic is supposed to be about?

Seems that certain posters merely want to use his murder as an excuse to air their prejudices; something his family expressed publicly they did not want.

Everyone on here feels the pain that's why they are posting not because of some left-wing racist ideology.

You can not help but go slightly of topic because of the vocal motivation behind the the Islamist's decapitation and murder.

The more deeply, Muslims are involved in their faith, the more they become radicalized

And aggressive, because Allah demands it!....Read the Koran, their thinking is totally different to ours! Your kindness does not count for Islam! The only thing that does count, is WORLD DOMINATIO. AS IS IN THEIR DOCTRINE AS THE FIRST GOAL FOR ISLAM! Islam is evil!

RIP Lee Rigby

CCC

I am not sure that the victims of Yaxely-Lennon's assaults would agree with you.

You have obviously missed the point.

The vast majority of British Muslims are as outraged by the murder of Drummer Rigby as you and I.

The vast majority of British Muslims abhor the acts of Muslim terrorists as much as you and I.

Yet this topic has degenerated into a sort of competition to find as many crimes committed by a Muslim as possible and use those crimes as some sort of evidence that all Muslims are evil.

So, if you believe that all Muslims are bad because some Muslims are criminals, then you must also believe that all EDL supporters are bad because their leader is a violent convicted criminal.

Both beliefs are equally meritless and based upon prejudice, not logic.

So, do you get it now?

Interesting how many posts it's been since anyone, except me, has mentioned Drummer Rigby, let alone used his name. Isn't his appalling murder what this topic is supposed to be about?

Seems that certain posters merely want to use his murder as an excuse to air their prejudices; something his family expressed publicly they did not want.

Everyone on here feels the pain that's why they are posting not because of some left-wing racist ideology.

You can not help but go slightly of topic because of the vocal motivation behind the the Islamist's decapitation and murder.

The more deeply, Muslims are involved in their faith, the more they become radicalized

And aggressive, because Allah demands it!....Read the Koran, their thinking is totally different to ours! Your kindness does not count for Islam! The only thing that does count, is WORLD DOMINATIO. AS IS IN THEIR DOCTRINE AS THE FIRST GOAL FOR ISLAM! Islam is evil!

RIP Lee Rigby

CCC

Indeed, this topic is a by product without the passion of the one that got closed.

Everyone to their own.

Adios

CCC

The vast majority of British Muslims are as outraged by the murder of Drummer Rigby as you and I.

The vast majority of British Muslims abhor the acts of Muslim terrorists as much as you and I.

So you keep insisting. I agree that the vast majority of Muslims are not directly involved in terrorism, but how many of them are fine with it as long as they do not have to press the plunger themselves?

The vast majority of British Muslims are as outraged by the murder of Drummer Rigby as you and I.

The vast majority of British Muslims abhor the acts of Muslim terrorists as much as you and I.

So you keep insisting. I agree that the vast majority of Muslims are not directly involved in terrorism, but how many of them are fine with it as long as they do not have to press the plunger themselves?

And how many non-Muslims are happy to hear of the terrorist individuals being castrated, hanged, electrocuted or whatever so long as they don't have to see it, let alone do the deed themselves?

This has throughout been one of these silly and fallacious arguments where one particular incident, in this case the murder of Lee Rigby, is taken as if it proved a general statement about Muslims (or indeed the EDL and others). As an emotional reaction, it is understandable; as logic, it stinks.

More posts from some about crimes committed by people who are probably Muslims.

Presumably to try and convince us that all Muslims are the same.

Using this logic, all those who express support for the EDL must also support assaulting police officers, wife beating and the other crimes Yaxely-Lennon has been convicted of!

But prejudice and logic never go together.

You are fond of that word 'presumably', which is almost invariably followed by something defamatory or misleading. No, it's certainly not all Muslims, see the post on the UKIP thread where I quoted a Muslim who believes multiculturalism is a disaster for example. What I would say is the 'tiny minority' meme is not credible, especially if you have friends in Blackburn, Dewsbury or many of the old mill towns in Yorkshire or Lancashire. For whatever reason Muslims are more of a problem than any other immigrant group measured by several metrics, the prison population being one. The horrific murder of Lee Rigby is just the tip of the iceburg, which brings me to the links I posted.

The first was of a knife attack by a Muslim on his 'friends' for sympathizing with the deceased. Such extreme views are not uncommon as a survey found that 1 in 4 British Muslims sympathized with the 7/7 bombers. The next link concerning the assault with a cricket bat on some teenage girls at a bus stop demonstrates some other points. First we see the contempt the assailants hold for white non-Muslims, it was not a one off but one of numerous examples of the failure of our multicultural policies. Then we come to the double standard; had a group of Pakistani girls been similarly assaulted by white skinheads there would have been saturation press coverage, as it was with the Ashton-Under-Lyne attack nada, zilch, not one single mainstream British media outlet ran the story, it was left to Sun Tv Canada to feature it.

The much maligned EDL plan a march in Ashton-Under-Lyne and in so doing there is a good chance the attack will be reported in the UK, just as gangs of pedophile Pakistani rapists were effectively ignored by the Police and the social services till the EDL drummed up enough publicity to force action to be taken.

Then we have the myth that somehow BNP and EDL on one side and say Choudrey and UAF on the other are causing all the problems. This myth is vital for the multicultural ideologues as without it the failure of their policies can't be blamed on someone else. Stockholm burns and I wonder whether a Swedish defense league gets blamed,

Paris has riots and reflexively Le Pen is mentioned. There is a cultural/religious problem we are facing, not an economic one. Self excluding ghettos are there by choice, not due to some fringe right wing groups annoying immigrants or UK foreign policy doing likewise.

The vast majority of British Muslims are as outraged by the murder of Drummer Rigby as you and I.

The vast majority of British Muslims abhor the acts of Muslim terrorists as much as you and I.

So you keep insisting. I agree that the vast majority of Muslims are not directly involved in terrorism, but how many of them are fine with it as long as they do not have to press the plunger themselves?

And how many non-Muslims are happy to hear of the terrorist individuals being castrated, hanged, electrocuted or whatever so long as they don't have to see it, let alone do the deed themselves?

Sorry, but I don't get your point. I would have no problem with castrating/hanging/electrocuting convicted terrorists who have murdered innocent men, women and children and I do not think that most other law abiding citizens would either.

The vast majority of British Muslims are as outraged by the murder of Drummer Rigby as you and I.

The vast majority of British Muslims abhor the acts of Muslim terrorists as much as you and I.

So you keep insisting. I agree that the vast majority of Muslims are not directly involved in terrorism, but how many of them are fine with it as long as they do not have to press the plunger themselves?

And how many non-Muslims are happy to hear of the terrorist individuals being castrated, hanged, electrocuted or whatever so long as they don't have to see it, let alone do the deed themselves?

Sorry, but I don't get your point. I would have no problem with castrating/hanging/electrocuting convicted terrorists who have murdered innocent men, women and children and I do not think that most other law abiding citizens would either.

Lucky you are not called Paul Hill, Paddy Armstrong, Gerry Conlon, Carole Richardson, Hugh Callaghan, Paddy Hill, Gerard Hunter, Richard McIlkenny, Bill Power or John Walker. All convicted for terrorist murders during the PIRA pub bombing campaign in the early 1970s ( the first 2 were convicted of the Woolwich pub bombing 400 metres from where Lee Rigby was murdered).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Six

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guildford_Four_and_Maguire_Seven

Their main offences were being Irish Catholics and nationalist sympathisers. While this underlines why capital punishment is fundamentally flawed, it also highlights the danger of demonisation and over-reaction. These notorious cases were key drivers in both recruiting and fund raising for PIRA. Many a Boston fund raising gig was serenaded by the Pogues song about the Birmingham 6 etc.

What all extremists are trying to achieve is exactly those 2 objectives. Too small and lacking the power to bring about change themselves, they try to provoke demonisation and excess reactions by their foes to position themselves as the only solution to their community's woes.

While their is no moral equivalence between outright murder and the enhanced "Paki-bashing" beloved of the EDL, both groups seek to achieve the objectives noted above. In the case of the EDL the article from Dissent highlighted the distinct "booted" and "suited" elements of anti-Muslim activities. The "booted" element is the drunken, street brawling antics of the EDL wrapped up in a fig-leaf disguise of "patriotism". The "suited" element, while far smaller in numbers and largely confined to the virtual world, is represented by the likes of Geller, Spencer, Fjordman, GoV etc. While the booted element wants to provoke actual fights and real fear, the suited types want to provoke a far greater clash of civilizations and let thousands of other people die to achieve their objectives.

The vast majority of British Muslims are as outraged by the murder of Drummer Rigby as you and I.

The vast majority of British Muslims abhor the acts of Muslim terrorists as much as you and I.

So you keep insisting. I agree that the vast majority of Muslims are not directly involved in terrorism, but how many of them are fine with it as long as they do not have to press the plunger themselves?

And how many non-Muslims are happy to hear of the terrorist individuals being castrated, hanged, electrocuted or whatever so long as they don't have to see it, let alone do the deed themselves?

Sorry, but I don't get your point. I would have no problem with castrating/hanging/electrocuting convicted terrorists who have murdered innocent men, women and children and I do not think that most other law abiding citizens would either.

I don't really see the point of encouraging them. Personally, I don't see why it's more acceptable to murder people for money or passion than for publicity.

SC

It is obvious that many people in this, and all the other "All Muslims are evil terrorists who want to either convert or preferably kill all non believers" type threads are so blinded by their prejudices that nothing is going to change them.

So be it.

You are as bad as the two idiots who shortly after my wife first came to the UK asked me how much I'd paid for her and how much to borrow her for the night!

It doesn't matter who ignorant prejudice is directed against; it says far more about the prejudiced than it does about the people their prejudice is directed toward.

But what really disgusts me about certain posts in this topic is the use of the memory of a young man who only wanted to serve his country as the excuse to post the blind, ignorant hatred expressed by their authors.

You can now repost your pathetic accusations that I am a supporter of international terrorism; I wont be reading them as I have had enough of this topic full of pathetic individuals who think that by blaming all for the actions of the few they are somehow dispensing wisdom.

Maybe one day these people will become adult enough to separate the wood from the trees; but I doubt it.

While their is no moral equivalence between outright murder and the enhanced "Paki-bashing" beloved of the EDL, both groups seek to achieve the objectives noted above.

There is no moral equivalence period. The EDL may be a bunch of hoodlums, or they may not. I see no real evidence that they are anything other than what they say they are. However, the facts are that they have not murdered anyone and radical Muslims have murdered innocent people all over the planet for decades.

Almost no one is saying that "all" Muslims are anything, but anyone who can not see that radical Islam is a global problem is simply delusional, no matter how enlightened and superior they consider themselves to be.

and that is about as much bashing as I am willing to stomach . Inches away from closure guys, inches.

From my previous post.

What I would say is the 'tiny minority' meme is not credible, especially if you have friends in Blackburn, Dewsbury or many of the old mill towns in Yorkshire or Lancashire.

As if to confirm what I wrote, here is a racist attack on a white teenager in Dewsbury. The family have had enough and are leaving, meanwhile the police refuse to classify the attack as racist, as that would no doubt be bad for community cohesion.

http://www.thepressnews.co.uk/NewsDetails.asp?id=3925#.UbzLhNgxzew.facebook

A TEENAGE boy was knocked unconscious with a house brick, stabbed with a screwdriver and �left for dead� in a vicious race attack.Joseph Haigh, 14, was savagely beaten by the gang of up to 15 Asian youths in Thornhill on Friday night.The gang hurled racist abuse at him, constantly referring to the colour of his skin, yet police refused to classify the attack as racially-motivated.

This is almost a daily occurrence, though many are still in denial, I think unless they or their loved ones were themselves attacked this denial would never cease.

Danny Lockwood was supposed yo go and give a talk on BBC re the situation in Dewsbury, after the recent terrorist trial, and the Kirklees leaders misleading comments on the situation in Dewsbury. He got a call. Sorry Danny some breaking news coming in. They were lifting some junk out of the English Channel. BBC had time fir the council leader though.

Speaking "out of the box" and not for "general" consumption....

The murder of one of our own wearing a help for heroes jumper is beyond words!

This is not about race so the "clutching at straws" left wingers can not use that card(which is usually the norm).

Most member are in an interacial relationship with mixed race children so being labelled racist is ridiculous!

I can not for the life of me understand why someone can defend these Islamist extremists even if they are non-Muslim!

You have to question their misguided ideology and motives.

The words of John Lennon in his song "imagine" have great meaning.

One things for sure, the moderate Muslims need to gain a voice - either their with us or against us!

The way things are panning out in the U.K we are going to have to start adopting the tactics for survival that the Israelis are forced to implement in the Middle East.

CCC

Speaking "out of the box" and not for "general" consumption....

The murder of one of our own wearing a help for heroes jumper is beyond words!

This is not about race so the "clutching at straws" left wingers can not use that card(which is usually the norm).

Most member are in an interacial relationship with mixed race children so being labelled racist is ridiculous!

I can not for the life of me understand why someone can defend these Islamist extremists even if they are non-Muslim!

You have to question their misguided ideology and motives.

The words of John Lennon in his song "imagine" have great meaning.

One things for sure, the moderate Muslims need to gain a voice - either their with us or against us!

The way things are panning out in the U.K we are going to have to start adopting the tactics for survival that the Israelis are forced to implement in the Middle East.

CCC

I don't think anyone on this thread is defending murderous Islamic extremists (BTW, they can't be both Islamist and non-Muslim). What they are saying is that it is a small minority of Muslims who behave in this way. Too large a number for all they're a minority.

Yes, I fully agree that the moderate Muslims have got to stand up and be counted; otherwise people WILL condemn all Muslims for the actions of a few, and some sort of discriminatory action, maybe legislation, will be enforced against them. This would only make things worse.

I think that many of us are worried that it is not only a small number of Muslims worldwide that condone terrorism - even if they are not directly involved - and that is why it continues to flourish. Unfortunately, I am not at all convinced that "the vast majority of Muslims abhor the acts of Muslim terrorists as much as you and I", no matter how many times it is repeated.

All Islamic terrorists are Muslims, but all Muslims are not Islamic terrorists. For anybody to think otherwise is delusional.

The silent majority are not terrorists but they need to be less silent. When I was in Saudi and Iran for some 35 years, I had many Saudis apologize for 9/11 and other incidents caused by terrorists. Unfortunately the vast majority of Muslims will not say anything or be vocal against Islamic terrorists, and therein lies the rub.

I do not use Wikipedia unless they sum up things quickly and easily. Hence this quote:

"Islamic terrorism is a form of religious terrorism[1] committed by Muslims to achieve varying political ends in the name of religion. Islamic terrorism has occurred in the Middle East, Africa, Europe, Southeast Asia, South Asia, and North America. Islamic terrorist organizations have been known to engage in tactics including suicide attacks, hijackings, kidnapping and recruiting new members through the Internet."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism

Chuckd:

Agreed that the silent majority are too silent. As you say, working in Saudi gives a different view to the one presented by the Daily Mail and similar redtops. The Saudis themselves suffer from Islamist terror attacks - Abqaiq refinery, Lummus in Yanbu, Al Khobar, Riyadh and many others. These are not necessarily against foreigners, non-muslims, but against the ruling elite in the country. But I cannot recall the King or any senior princes saying anything in public. I knew Prince Sultan well, also Sheik Khalid bin Mahfouz. I worked for Mohammed Hussein AlAmoudi and his brother Omar. None would condemn the terrorists. Yet these were leaders of the country.

In the UK there are various leaders of muslim communities who do speak out, but no one is aware of the size of the communities they represent. We have many communities from India and Pakistan, also Bangladesh, Somalia, Nigeria and the Middle East. Thus maybe hudreds or even thousands of different mosques with different leaders and different viewpoints. Also many of the imams preaching in these mosques are imported from madrasseh in Pakistan and the Middle East, without ties to the UK. Thus many are without a basic grounding in the mores and customs of the UK. A similar situation exists in France, although one should then substitute North Africa for the Indian sub-continent.

Here in the UK I know many people born into the muslim faith, who do individually condemn all terror attacks, but with most, when I take the discussion further, they say they no longer attend mosques or follow their faith on a daily basis, because they do not recognise the direction that the mosques are taking. This applies particularly to my many Iranian friends, but also several of Pakistani descent.

Watching the Luton video, I got the impression that it's "unislamic" to openly condemn or rebuke another muslim. All the moderate imam would say is, we do not know the people from that mosque. Or they go to a different mosque. Until they march in the streets with placards saying stuff like "Chowdary go to hell. " In response to "UK police go to hell." Then their silence leads people to think they condone the extremists actions.

Those of you who have any historical perspective can reflect on how the Catholic Church behaved in the Middle Ages. People didn't dare criticise it, to its own severe detriment. Do you think the ordinary people supported the Inquisition? the burning of heretics under Queen Mary? (or indeed of Catholics under Elizabeth?) They certainly enjoyed the show, but that's not quite the same thing.

The current wave of Islamic terrorism in relation to the man-in-the-street Muslim is a parallel situation (in other words, Islam is still in the Middle Ages). There is one way in which modern Islam is worse than Renaissance Catholicism. The Catholic Church had central authority, and was able, slowly, and stage by stage, to do something about it. Islam has no central authority, and it's very difficult to see where reform can start.

People like the Boston bombers and the Woolwich murderers are loose cannons.... and that's the trouble; nobody can control them, not even their own co-religionists.

Watching the Luton video, I got the impression that it's "unislamic" to openly condemn or rebuke another muslim. All the moderate imam would say is, we do not know the people from that mosque. Or they go to a different mosque. Until they march in the streets with placards saying stuff like "Chowdary go to hell. " In response to "UK police go to hell." Then their silence leads people to think they condone the extremists actions.

I think it's unusual for moderates to demonstrate, and there are very few radical moderates who are willing to get into a punch-up for the sake of peace and respectful co-existence.

I personally have never demonstrated against extremism, nor marched for apathy and the status quo

SC.

Those of you who have any historical perspective can reflect on how the Catholic Church behaved in the Middle Ages. People didn't dare criticise it, to its own severe detriment. Do you think the ordinary people supported the Inquisition? the burning of heretics under Queen Mary? (or indeed of Catholics under Elizabeth?) They certainly enjoyed the show, but that's not quite the same thing.

The current wave of Islamic terrorism in relation to the man-in-the-street Muslim is a parallel situation (in other words, Islam is still in the Middle Ages). There is one way in which modern Islam is worse than Renaissance Catholicism. The Catholic Church had central authority, and was able, slowly, and stage by stage, to do something about it. Islam has no central authority, and it's very difficult to see where reform can start.

People like the Boston bombers and the Woolwich murderers are loose cannons.... and that's the trouble; nobody can control them, not even their own co-religionists.

State Security could deal with them. A few cars at 3 A.M, an apartment up for rent, official denial of their very existence... I am not saying this is the way to go, but it can quite easily be done.

Those of you who have any historical perspective can reflect on how the Catholic Church behaved in the Middle Ages. People didn't dare criticise it, to its own severe detriment. Do you think the ordinary people supported the Inquisition? the burning of heretics under Queen Mary? (or indeed of Catholics under Elizabeth?) They certainly enjoyed the show, but that's not quite the same thing.

The current wave of Islamic terrorism in relation to the man-in-the-street Muslim is a parallel situation (in other words, Islam is still in the Middle Ages). There is one way in which modern Islam is worse than Renaissance Catholicism. The Catholic Church had central authority, and was able, slowly, and stage by stage, to do something about it. Islam has no central authority, and it's very difficult to see where reform can start.

People like the Boston bombers and the Woolwich murderers are loose cannons.... and that's the trouble; nobody can control them, not even their own co-religionists.

State Security could deal with them. A few cars at 3 A.M, an apartment up for rent, official denial of their very existence... I am not saying this is the way to go, but it can quite easily be done.

They have to find them first, baboon, and that's the problem. There are all sorts of ways of dealing with the problem once the terrorists have been identified.

Those of you who have any historical perspective can reflect on how the Catholic Church behaved in the Middle Ages. People didn't dare criticise it, to its own severe detriment. Do you think the ordinary people supported the Inquisition? the burning of heretics under Queen Mary? (or indeed of Catholics under Elizabeth?) They certainly enjoyed the show, but that's not quite the same thing.

The current wave of Islamic terrorism in relation to the man-in-the-street Muslim is a parallel situation (in other words, Islam is still in the Middle Ages). There is one way in which modern Islam is worse than Renaissance Catholicism. The Catholic Church had central authority, and was able, slowly, and stage by stage, to do something about it. Islam has no central authority, and it's very difficult to see where reform can start.

People like the Boston bombers and the Woolwich murderers are loose cannons.... and that's the trouble; nobody can control them, not even their own co-religionists.

State Security could deal with them. A few cars at 3 A.M, an apartment up for rent, official denial of their very existence... I am not saying this is the way to go, but it can quite easily be done.

They have to find them first, baboon, and that's the problem. There are all sorts of ways of dealing with the problem once the terrorists have been identified.

Sooner or later you'll get the terrorists if you lift enough people, Dart-board theory. Innocent people have nothing to fear. Except for unlucky ones.

SC