The Ashes Tour 2013

[7by7]

5/230 is my hope

Well, if that's the score at the end of day five it will be a relief for England as Australia actually need 231!

[BookMan]

5/230 is my hope

Well, if that's the score at the end of day five it will be a relief for England as Australia actually need 231!

It'll all be over end of day 4, tomorrow, one way or the other...maybe all over by tea

[7by7]

Probably, and the way things have been going for England on this tour I wouldn't be surprised to wake up tomorrow morning and see an Australian score of 231 for 0

[BookMan]

Probably, and the way things have been going for England on this tour I wouldn't be surprised to wake up tomorrow morning and see an Australian score of 231 for 0

I cant see that happening.

I do think the Aussies will win, but pressure builds in different ways. We saw England have two mini collapses. Could happen to the Aussies.

[kickstart]

TO quote the BBC

"No team has ever sucessfully chased more than 183 in the fourth innings to win a test at the MCG since drop in pitches".

I think that is about to end tomorrow.

[David48]

<deleted>?

173 for 5 to 179 all out!

Quite a few people dissed Peterson when, in the first English Innings, he lost the last recognised batsman as a partner on the pitch and decided to 'go for it' with some aggressive batting.

He came out with an interview later which basically said that he didn't have any confidence in the English ability for their 'tail to wag'.

He's been proven right twice in the match.

There was a theory was the England's Tail just didn't want to face Johnson ... maybe yes, maybe no.

That theory was extended to how Bailey got his 5 for ...

[BookMan]

oh dear oh me!

England must want to lose...

4th over of the day Broad to Rogers...SImple catch goes between Bairstow and cook. Bairstow's catch but he doesn't go for it. Cook can't reach it fully. Dropped catch

6th over of the day and Stokes is brought into the attack...Warner nicks a regulation 1st slip catch to Cook...dropped catch #2

Edited December 29, 2013 by BookMan

[Will27]

oh dear oh me!

England must want to lose...

4th over of the day Broad to Rogers...SImple catch goes between Bairstow and cook. Bairstow's catch but he doesn't go for it. Cook can't reach it fully. Dropped catch

6th over of the day and Stokes is brought into the attack...Warner nicks a regulation 1st slip catch to Cook...dropped catch #2

You're not wrong bookman!

Two for 40 odd with Smith and Bailey being the next 2 in would've bought shudders into the change rooms.

I really think one of these 2 has to get a 50 or 60 for us to win.

There must be a few gremlins in the pitch as the highest score so far is Pietersens 71, and he was dropped

twice.

Next hour is vital, I think Australia would be happy to go to lunch at 3 for whereas if it's 4, big big trouble.

[BookMan]

oh dear oh me!

England must want to lose...

4th over of the day Broad to Rogers...SImple catch goes between Bairstow and cook. Bairstow's catch but he doesn't go for it. Cook can't reach it fully. Dropped catch

6th over of the day and Stokes is brought into the attack...Warner nicks a regulation 1st slip catch to Cook...dropped catch #2

You're not wrong bookman!

Two for 40 odd with Smith and Bailey being the next 2 in would've bought shudders into the change rooms.

I really think one of these 2 has to get a 50 or 60 for us to win.

There must be a few gremlins in the pitch as the highest score so far is Pietersens 71, and he was dropped

twice.

Next hour is vital, I think Australia would be happy to go to lunch at 3 for whereas if it's 4, big big trouble.

The Aussies are past the first danger zone...of being 3 or 4 wickets down. At 1/132 they are looking good. England needs a mini collapse...for them, before lunch. Two more wickets in the next 3 overs will give England a chance

edit. Rogers has looked good (once chance between the keeper). 79 not out now... He needs this 100

Edited December 29, 2013 by BookMan

[Will27]

oh dear oh me!

England must want to lose...

4th over of the day Broad to Rogers...SImple catch goes between Bairstow and cook. Bairstow's catch but he doesn't go for it. Cook can't reach it fully. Dropped catch

6th over of the day and Stokes is brought into the attack...Warner nicks a regulation 1st slip catch to Cook...dropped catch #2

You're not wrong bookman!

Two for 40 odd with Smith and Bailey being the next 2 in would've bought shudders into the change rooms.

I really think one of these 2 has to get a 50 or 60 for us to win.

There must be a few gremlins in the pitch as the highest score so far is Pietersens 71, and he was dropped

twice.

Next hour is vital, I think Australia would be happy to go to lunch at 3 for whereas if it's 4, big big trouble.

The Aussies are past the first danger zone...of being 3 or 4 wickets down. At 1/132 they are looking good. England needs a mini collapse...for them, before lunch. Two more wickets in the next 3 overs will give England a chance

edit. Rogers has looked good (once chance between the keeper). 79 not out now... He needs this 100

Yep, you'd take 1 down at lunch everyday at the week.

Rogers looks like he's just about got the man of the match award with 140 runs

for the match so far on a low scoring deck, which would be a huge effort.

Johnson's 8 wickets and a run out would be the only other contender.

That is assuming we don't get bowled out.

[BookMan]

Probably, and the way things have been going for England on this tour I wouldn't be surprised to wake up tomorrow morning and see an Australian score of 231 for 0

Close mate.

Disappointing for all you English.

Well done Australia!

[Northpoint]

Probably, and the way things have been going for England on this tour I wouldn't be surprised to wake up tomorrow morning and see an Australian score of 231 for 0

231 for 2 wasn't half bad either.

[carmine]

Well done again to Australia, but i have to say, what a gutless, spineless performance by England. Utterly pathetic.

[David48]

Well done again to Australia, but i have to say, what a gutless, spineless performance by England. Utterly pathetic.

Thanks ... and the congratulations are warmly appreciated ...

We all want to see a contest, England and Australia at their best.

Maybe the 5th Test could show a glimmer of the gritty resolve that England have shown in past series and fight, if not win.

.

[kickstart]

Carmine

Got to agree, I was so pleased I found the live link to watch the match on,wish I had not bothered, Cook's dropped catch,I have

seen better cricket played on a vilage green.

Got to give it to Rodgers good ton.

[carmine]

Well done again to Australia, but i have to say, what a gutless, spineless performance by England. Utterly pathetic.

Thanks ... and the congratulations are warmly appreciated ...

We all want to see a contest, England and Australia at their best.

Maybe the 5th Test could show a glimmer of the gritty resolve that England have shown in past series and fight, if not win.

.

Agreed david but i just can't see it. The England confidence level is approaching zero. I also think they went into this series over confident, never looked like they had the commitment to tough it out. The Australians, well managed by Lehman clearly learnt from their shortcomings in the last series and showed far more guts and hunger. This is the worst aspect for me. The Aussie team clearly and visibly wanted it more and frankly deserve a whitewash.

England is a team in transition but didn't realize it in time. After Swann's disgracefully timed retirement "mid tour" i think we will see some more of the old guard being fazed out.

[7by7]

Probably, and the way things have been going for England on this tour I wouldn't be surprised to wake up tomorrow morning and see an Australian score of 231 for 0

231 for 2 wasn't half bad either.

I suppose the only thing that can be said about losing by 8 wickets is that it's better than losing by 10 (or 9).

For whatever reason, whilst Australia have been playing above themselves, England have been dismal.

[7by7]

<deleted>?

173 for 5 to 179 all out!

Quite a few people dissed Peterson when, in the first English Innings, he lost the last recognised batsman as a partner on the pitch and decided to 'go for it' with some aggressive batting.

He came out with an interview later which basically said that he didn't have any confidence in the English ability for their 'tail to wag'.

He's been proven right twice in the match.

Which doesn't explain how three of England's top five wickets fell for one run!

Bairstow and Bresnan have a test average of just over 30 and Broad just under 40.

The way Pietersen has performed in this series, he's the last one to comment on the consistency of others.

Edited December 29, 2013 by 7by7

[7by7]

Ashes 2013-14: England have lost confidence says Alastair Cook

"We had three chances but didn't take them," said Cook.

"I can't explain the catching, a lot of things I can't explain. I suppose it shows where we are as a side."

One of the other things he doesn't seem able to explain is his captaincy on the field.

Cook made some puzzling tactical decisions as Australia cantered to their target of 231, the highest successful fourth-innings score at this ground for over half a century.

He opted to remove his most threatening bowler, Stuart Broad, from the attack after just two overs, one of which had brought an edge, and then gave part-time spinner Joe Root a spell long before turning to his specialist Monty Panesar.

Cook has been an excellent servant of English cricket, both as a batsman and as captain. But for most of his captaincy things have gone right and England have been riding high.

It seems the pressure of captaincy when the wheels come off could be getting too much for him.

[BookMan]

Ashes 2013-14: England have lost confidence says Alastair Cook

"We had three chances but didn't take them," said Cook.

"I can't explain the catching, a lot of things I can't explain. I suppose it shows where we are as a side."

One of the other things he doesn't seem able to explain is his captaincy on the field.

Cook made some puzzling tactical decisions as Australia cantered to their target of 231, the highest successful fourth-innings score at this ground for over half a century.

He opted to remove his most threatening bowler, Stuart Broad, from the attack after just two overs, one of which had brought an edge, and then gave part-time spinner Joe Root a spell long before turning to his specialist Monty Panesar.

Cook has been an excellent servant of English cricket, both as a batsman and as captain. But for most of his captaincy things have gone right and England have been riding high.

It seems the pressure of captaincy when the wheels come off could be getting too much for him.

Cook is too conservative...no bold field placings, no risk taking, pedestrian team like run rate, going for a draw not a win, time wasting techniques....It worked for them in England in Ashes series...only just

Cook's poor Captain performance probably masks a bigger issue; Too much responsibility is given to Cricket Captains to make all the on field decisions. Have a coaching panel/head coach on the sidelines making all the moves and strategy...much like nearly every other major sport.

[David48]

^^ Following on from above. 7x7 comments over-page #2149

I can understand the low team morale ... but what I don't understand were the dropped catches.

Fielding is reactionary, well the sharp catches are ... went to hand, but not caught.

Catches win matches.

Edited December 29, 2013 by David48

[Northpoint]

^^ Following on from above. 7x7 comments over-page #2149

I can understand the low team morale ... but what I don't understand were the dropped catches.

Fielding is reactionary, well the sharp catches are ... went to hand, but not caught.

Catches win matches.

[Northpoint]

^^ Following on from above. 7x7 comments over-page #2149

I can understand the low team morale ... but what I don't understand were the dropped catches.

Fielding is reactionary, well the sharp catches are ... went to hand, but not caught.

Catches win matches.

And dropped catches loose matches.

[Northpoint]

^^ Following on from above. 7x7 comments over-page #2149

I can understand the low team morale ... but what I don't understand were the dropped catches.

Fielding is reactionary, well the sharp catches are ... went to hand, but not caught.

Catches win matches.

And dropped catches loose matches.

[7by7]

Cook's poor Captain performance probably masks a bigger issue; Too much responsibility is given to Cricket Captains to make all the on field decisions. Have a coaching panel/head coach on the sidelines making all the moves and strategy...much like nearly every other major sport.

Whilst I can see some merit in that, Bookman, over rates are already generally poor. How often does a side bowl the full 90 in a day; even with overtime?

If every time a captain is considering a field or bowling change he has to discuss it with his off field team, or the coach regularly calls the captain over to the boundary to give him instructions, this can only make over rates worse.

You could say that this can be done during play; but that would leave the fielding side a man short.

Edited to add quote. Moral; check topic doesn't continue over page before replying to a specific post!

Edited December 29, 2013 by 7by7

[BookMan]

Whilst I can see some merit in that, Bookman, over rates are already poor. How often does a side bowl the full 90 in a day; even with overtime?

If every time a captain is considering a field or bowling change he has to discuss it with his off field team, or the coach calls the captain over to the boundary to give him instructions, this can only make over rates worse.

You could say that this can be done during play; but that would leave the fielding side a man short.

There are some issues, but nothing that is not workable...

I remember Hanse Cronje appearing on field many years back with an earpiece...Was it in a World cup match? (Maybe he was getting instruction on betting patterns)

He was asked to remove it.

The technology is there.

[7by7]

^^ Following on from above. 7x7 comments over-page #2149

I can understand the low team morale ... but what I don't understand were the dropped catches.

Fielding is reactionary, well the sharp catches are ... went to hand, but not caught.

Catches win matches.

Understand what you are saying, David, but when team morale is low people's reactions suffer.

Even when morale is high, catches are dropped. How many times was KP dropped in England's first innings?

To win a test match you need to be able to take 20 wickets.

In 8 innings England have only managed to dismiss Australia, i.e. take all 10 Australian wickets, 3 times!

[Will27]

Probably, and the way things have been going for England on this tour I wouldn't be surprised to wake up tomorrow morning and see an Australian score of 231 for 0

231 for 2 wasn't half bad either.

I suppose the only thing that can be said about losing by 8 wickets is that it's better than losing by 10 (or 9).

For whatever reason, whilst Australia have been playing above themselves, England have been dismal.

Two words, Mitchell Johnson.

Sure he's had a good supporting cast, but there's no way I think it would be 4 nil if he wasn't playing.

[Will27]

Well done again to Australia, but i have to say, what a gutless, spineless performance by England. Utterly pathetic.

Thanks ... and the congratulations are warmly appreciated ...

We all want to see a contest, England and Australia at their best.

Maybe the 5th Test could show a glimmer of the gritty resolve that England have shown in past series and fight, if not win.

.

Agreed david but i just can't see it. The England confidence level is approaching zero. I also think they went into this series over confident, never looked like they had the commitment to tough it out. The Australians, well managed by Lehman clearly learnt from their shortcomings in the last series and showed far more guts and hunger. This is the worst aspect for me. The Aussie team clearly and visibly wanted it more and frankly deserve a whitewash.

England is a team in transition but didn't realize it in time. After Swann's disgracefully timed retirement "mid tour" i think we will see some more of the old guard being fazed out.

Apart from the embarrassment, I don't think there's any reason for Eng to panic.

I think the bowlers have been more disappointing then the batsmen. They have

just been blown away by Johnson (mainly). IMO, Cooke, Bell and Pietersen would all still walk into the Aussie side.

Apart from Broad, all of the bowlers have been disappointing so maybe they should look at replacements for a few of them.

Stokes and Root have been positives.

It's ok to call out for replacements, but you have to have quality to replace them with. I wouldn't omit any of the batsmen

at this stage.

[Will27]

^^ Following on from above. 7x7 comments over-page #2149

I can understand the low team morale ... but what I don't understand were the dropped catches.

Fielding is reactionary, well the sharp catches are ... went to hand, but not caught.

Catches win matches.

Catching, like batting and bowling is a confidence thing.

I think when Cook dropped Warner, he was probably thinking of a

million other things and his mind is probably all over the place.

When your confidence is up, the team tends to pull off run-outs, half

chances etc which is what the Aussies are doing at the minute.