15 month old Question Time from Dewsbury. However appropriate still IMO

Interesting that no one mentioned OIL as the key difference between Libya and Syria in those last 2:30 minutes.

Pat Condell always gets it right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz267A6jhbw&feature=youtu.be

Were he not British you could be sure he would never be allowed in seeing as truth is the new hate speech, which incidentally is a quote by Pam Geller.

No, Dan.

No it's not hate speech or no he shouldn't be allowed into UK.?

it's not hate speech, it's a moron speaking who should be taken by the men "dressed in white", wrapped in a jacket with long tassels and put away.

fact is that i support a "very strong and lasting put away"!

Pat Condell always gets it right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz267A6jhbw&feature=youtu.be

Were he not British you could be sure he would never be allowed in seeing as truth is the new hate speech, which incidentally is a quote by Pam Geller.

Geller's take on "truth" could certainly be seen as hate speech, hence PayPal's recent suspension of Geller's delightful website for contravening its rules on hate speech.

In the USA, the Anti-Defamation League have designated Geller’s “Stop Islamization of America” organization as a hate group. As was recently reported in the Jewish Week, Etzion Neuer, director of community service and policy for the ADL’s New York region, said that Geller “under the guise of fighting radical Islam, absolutely demonizes an entire religion. In directing her rhetoric at the entire Islamic faith, she fuels anti-Islamic bigotry. Geller doesn’t do us any favors,” he continued. “She muddies the waters because she hands the platform to the extremists in our midst. Instead of thoughtful, fact-based dialogue on the issues, we get incendiary rhetoric and xenophobia.”

No one sane denies the fact that Islamic extremists are a serious security risk, but extremists such as Geller and Spencer do little to combat such a risk. Indeed their provocative demonization only serves to worsen the situation, which probably suits the Geller/Spencer agenda fine as they seek to instigate the neo-con Clash of Civilizations and get millions to die for their agenda.

Truth is an absolute, there is no 'take' on it. Indeed Pat Condell absolutely nails it here when discussing the EDL, who invited the Americans to attend their rally, with supposedly neo-liberal groups such as UAF and hope not hate, who are no different from Stalinist gibbons. But who to believe, what have the government got to conceal which causes them to ban two U.S citizens who still nobody can give an example of their using hate speech, but let in a Saudi calling for the cracking of infidel skulls?

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

-Joseph Goebbels

Yes indeed Mr Condell, our crippling fear of the truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN5TgItGWlk#at=299

I have been somewhat hesitant to form an opinion on this matter and on the EDL. I am American and have never been to England, so I am not really that familiar with what is going on over there. In such situations, I usually like to get the opinion of someone who I trust that does know what is going on. Pat Condell is one of my heroes and I rarely disagree with him (even though he is an atheist and I am not). Here is what he had to say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN5TgItGWlk

Pat Condell consistently states "facts" which clearly are not in line with the liberal agenda. Liberals abhore facts for they obliterate the doctrine of mind control, domination and prejudice via intimidation and politically correct speech, aka anti-free speech. One example is the push to re-write history books used in classrooms to be consistent with liberals' PC agenda. I feel sorry for the free thinking British citizens. However, America is unfortunately trying its best to catch up/join in on the demonic meltdown of society.

Truth is an absolute.......there is no doubt about that.

We're seeing people on this thread twisting in the wind trying to justify their anti-free speech positions.

The bottom line is they are trying to silence people that THEY think are objectionable. In my opinion they are the true enemy.

A prime example of that was the Immigration debate in the UK from 97 onwards, anyone objecting to the level of Immigration was boo'ed down as a racist. It was a deliberate and concerted campaign of vilification by the left and the Labour Party.

Think about it, to object to your country being over run by Immigration means you are racist in the eyes of these people.

Even when the highest Immigration group was the white Polish community. Bizarre eh?

Here's the punch line.........

The Labour Party has since admitted it was a deliberate policy to allow such mass Immigration as they believed the new immigrants would be natural Labour Party supporters.

It was a calculated attempt to gerrymander the British electorate.

I call that criminal.

While it was at it's zenith the Racism card was played against anyone who objected. It was an attempt to stifle debate, to stifle free speech. Serious people had to fight off these attacks as more and more people poured into the country. The debate was never had.

The Labour Party has now admitted that it made a mistake, it caused the rise of the Ultra-Right in the UK, and now they admit that the people that objected were right all along.

That's what happens when you stifle free speech.........unexpected consequences.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html

I have been somewhat hesitant to form an opinion on this matter and on the EDL. I am American and have never been to England, so I am not really that familiar with what is going on over there. In such situations, I usually like to get the opinion of someone who I trust that does know what is going on. Pat Condell is one of my heroes and I rarely disagree with him (even though he is an atheist and I am not). Here is what he had to say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN5TgItGWlk

I am pleased to see someone open up the debate on UAF (Unite Against Fascism), where this Pat Condell is pretty much on the money, with facts to back up his argument.

However on the rest of the clip he is ranting against Islam without facts, and this detracts from the whole recording.

His main theme on many such videos is an anti-Islamic diatribe and he does not do it well. Let him research this line as he does with things like the UAF and I might be more interested in his arguments. But currently, although I agree with his thinking on the UAF and the Socialist Workers Party (a Trotskyite organisation similar to Keep Left and Young Guard to which I belonged in the 1960s) I cannot go along with his anti-Islamic policy.

I have been somewhat hesitant to form an opinion on this matter and on the EDL. I am American and have never been to England, so I am not really that familiar with what is going on over there. In such situations, I usually like to get the opinion of someone who I trust that does know what is going on. Pat Condell is one of my heroes and I rarely disagree with him (even though he is an atheist and I am not). Here is what he had to say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN5TgItGWlk

I am pleased to see someone open up the debate on UAF (Unite Against Fascism), where this Pat Condell is pretty much on the money, with facts to back up his argument.

However on the rest of the clip he is ranting against Islam without facts, and this detracts from the whole recording.

His main theme on many such videos is an anti-Islamic diatribe and he does not do it well. Let him research this line as he does with things like the UAF and I might be more interested in his arguments. But currently, although I agree with his thinking on the UAF and the Socialist Workers Party (a Trotskyite organisation similar to Keep Left and Young Guard to which I belonged in the 1960s) I cannot go along with his anti-Islamic policy.

He's not too fond of Christianity either.

His main theme on many such videos is an anti-Islamic diatribe and he does not do it well.

He is an atheist that thinks that religion causes many of the world's problems. He thinks that Islam is particularly hypocritical and causes more difficulties than most. I can't see where he has gotten it wrong.

His main theme on many such videos is an anti-Islamic diatribe and he does not do it well.

He is an atheist that thinks that religion causes many of the world's problems. He thinks that Islam is particularly hypocritical and causes more difficulties than most. I can't see where he has gotten it wrong.

As I am an atheist too i do agree that religion causes many of the problems in the world however if there was no religion they would find something else to fight about.

Pat Condell consistently states "facts" which clearly are not in line with the liberal agenda. Liberals abhore facts for they obliterate the doctrine of mind control, domination and prejudice via intimidation and politically correct speech, aka anti-free speech. One example is the push to re-write history books used in classrooms to be consistent with liberals' PC agenda. I feel sorry for the free thinking British citizens. However, America is unfortunately trying its best to catch up/join in on the demonic meltdown of society.

There's no need to feel sorry for us. We're all capable of free thinking even if we don't come to the same conclusions. BTW you might want to investigate the different meanings of the word 'liberal' depending on where you live.

Pat Condell consistently states "facts" which clearly are not in line with the liberal agenda. Liberals abhore facts for they obliterate the doctrine of mind control, domination and prejudice via intimidation and politically correct speech, aka anti-free speech. One example is the push to re-write history books used in classrooms to be consistent with liberals' PC agenda. I feel sorry for the free thinking British citizens. However, America is unfortunately trying its best to catch up/join in on the demonic meltdown of society.

There's no need to feel sorry for us. We're all capable of free thinking even if we don't come to the same conclusions. BTW you might want to investigate the different meanings of the word 'liberal' depending on where you live.

What is wrong with accepting you did some bad things in the past the Dutch were no angels in indonesia and had a slave trade. At that time it was not a bad thing but the norm but looking back at it it was wrong. Nothing wrong about putting that in the history books.

Most people are complaining that Thais will never admit their mistakes and are all about face, now people who want their history to show they were perfect are just as bad.

Just like the Americans did plenty of bad things in their history, i wonder if "My Lai" is mentioned in their history books. There is not a country on eath that was 100% good the sooner we accept we all make mistakes and do bad things the better. There are still some people who think the Germans in WW2 were the only ones that committed war crimes , and the allies were angels. Nothing wrong in updating history if the facts are true.

I would like to be able to agree with theblether and others that freedom of speech is an absolute. It would be if human beings were perfect. It would be if people always told the truth.

Hate speech from the extreme right or the extreme left, from Christians or Muslims, is potentially damaging to the security of the people of any country. Who decides what is hate speech? That indeed is a problem, but one we have to try and solve. In some cases, like Abu Qatada, there is really not much doubt. In others, like the two Americans this thread started with, there is more doubt, but on the whole I think that they are a security risk in the current circumstances.

BTW you might want to investigate the different meanings of the word 'liberal' depending on where you live.

I am pretty sure that he is using it as a synonym.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

Just like the Americans did plenty of bad things in their history, i wonder if "My Lai" is mentioned in their history books.

Yes it is and so is the slaughter on the American Indians.

Just like the Americans did plenty of bad things in their history, i wonder if "My Lai" is mentioned in their history books.

Yes it is and so is the slaughter on the American Indians.

Good, we should admit to our mistakes and not feel to proud about our country and see it can be wrong too. Too much patriotism is a bad thing. Anyway I feel freedom of speech is real important even if it is hate speech. Because the problem when you start banning it who says the one deciding what is hate speech is impartial.

Its a tough subject that is for sure, it is better to combat hate speech with facts, but you will always have a group of idiots believing in it.

I would like to be able to agree with theblether and others that freedom of speech is an absolute. It would be if human beings were perfect. It would be if people always told the truth.

Hate speech from the extreme right or the extreme left, from Christians or Muslims, is potentially damaging to the security of the people of any country. Who decides what is hate speech? That indeed is a problem, but one we have to try and solve. In some cases, like Abu Qatada, there is really not much doubt. In others, like the two Americans this thread started with, there is more doubt, but on the whole I think that they are a security risk in the current circumstances.

Are you of the opinion that preventing people from saying " it " will prevent them from thinking " it " ? I know you know that's absurd.

So here we go......we start to curtail our beliefs to accommodate this twisted logic.

What have we achieved by jailing these Islamic hate preachers? We've made them martyrs to the people that think like them, we've strengthened their cult status. That's clever huh?

As for me, I'd never heard of these US bloggers before this story, now they are International celebrities in the cause they espouse. Unbelievable. I bet you they have had more hits on their blogs in the last couple of weeks than all the time before that combined.

People need to start learning that doing nothing is a marvellous management technique, because so far all I'm seeing is an ever more vicious circle of loss of freedom.

All because there's people out there saying " I don't like what he's saying, do something! "

Unintended consequences indeed.

I'm almost convinced, theblether! Splendid post, anyway.

I quite agree that banning anyone gives them massive publicity. It would be nice to think that a lordly disdain would stop people listening to them.

The British Government is in a dilemma. Try to stop people creating trouble, or hope that the trouble will not happen, and be prepared to pick up the pieces if it does.

On the horns of a digamma, as we used to say.

Let me go get a post I put on Facebook today.........

As a Scotsman, I've always loved watching Andy Murray play. Even when he was getting stick for being a soor faced miserable get, I totally got him, he was just trying his best. When he got bullied the life out of for his throw away line about "anybody but the English" to me it showed more about how brittle some English people are, many still resolutely detest him for it. They haven't lived a moment of his life. I, like all other Scots, will never forget this day as long as I live, and that young boy was there.

Andy Murray, a true Scotsman, a True Scottish Hero.

Here's the reply that an EDL supporter sent.............

"Andy murry represents all the people in dunblain who sufferd at the hand of terrow when they blew that plain up with inocent people onbouard and on land !!"

^^ When you see retarded answers like that............how can you not let them talk?

It shows you the intellect we are dealing with, silence them and they'll respond with violence, as sure as night follows day.

It would appear Canada are moving in the opposite direction to the UK when it comes to freedom of speech. I heartily endorse the Canadian stance on this, which is why I tend to look for Canadian news sources before British ones.

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3878/canada_in_landmark_move_to_strike_out_hate_speech_law

Free speech advocates are hailing a move by the Canadian Senate this week to abolish a highly controversial section of Canada's Human Rights Act which, critics say, has been used to stifle the opinions of right-leaning journalists such as Mark Steyn and Ezra Levant.

The Sun Media Corporation, Canada's leading newspaper publisher, said:

"Section 13 ostensibly banned hate speech on the Internet and left it up to the quasi-judicial human rights commission to determine what qualified as "hate speech." But, unlike a court, there was no presumption of innocence of those accused of hate speech by the commission. Instead, those accused had to prove their innocence."

Let me go get a post I put on Facebook today.........

As a Scotsman, I've always loved watching Andy Murray play. Even when he was getting stick for being a soor faced miserable get, I totally got him, he was just trying his best. When he got bullied the life out of for his throw away line about "anybody but the English" to me it showed more about how brittle some English people are, many still resolutely detest him for it. They haven't lived a moment of his life. I, like all other Scots, will never forget this day as long as I live, and that young boy was there.

Andy Murray, a true Scotsman, a True Scottish Hero.

Here's the reply that an EDL supporter sent.............

"Andy murry represents all the people in dunblain who sufferd at the hand of terrow when they blew that plain up with inocent people onbouard and on land !!"

Andy Murray is now in line to pick up anything up to £ 100 million in sponsorships and advertising endorsements, according to most red-top newspapers this morning.

I would suggest :

Andy Murray Mints

Handy Andy tissues

Murray Curry (quick-serve, contains haggis)

Andy Candy

Randy Andy condoms

Sandy Andy beachwear

Tonypandy tourist office

More ideas gratefully received.

By the looks of it Sir Andy is on the cards

Just like the Americans did plenty of bad things in their history, i wonder if "My Lai" is mentioned in their history books.

Yes it is and so is the slaughter on the American Indians.

And it continues to this day:

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/07/%E2%80%9Cwhy_did_you_shoot_me_i_was_reading_a_book_the_new_warrior_cop_is_out_of_control/