Farang got Stabbed

[steffi]

I don't think many taxi drivers would feel its worthwhile killing somebody over a 51 thb fare. The taxi driver would have you believe he used the sword in self defence. It's hard for me to believe anything good could come from threatening the foreigner with the sword. Is mai-pen-rai just marketing bullshit? If the foreigner knocks down the Thai and kills him I'd say its in self defense but you know the courts wouldn't see it that way.

[DavidBonnie]

The hideous event occured just a short distance from where I live and as someone who has had his share of taxi disputes this news hit me and my Thai girlfriend very hard.

Troy was picked up from Central Bagna about 8km away from Soi 68 and so the fare of 51 baht sounds about right.

One news story cites 'the passengers claims that the meter was rigged' but that probably came from the taxi murderer. Another talks about 'coffee being flung' in the murderer's face and another about water. The meter may indeed have been rigged but was re-adjusted to show 51 baht after the event?

It is all academic really as regardless of the details a grevious wrong was done by the taxi driver.

Someone in my office said today, 'I have lived here for 20 years and never had a problem with a taxi driver', while behind him everyone elase in the office made a grimace of incredulity!

Lots of Thai people distrust taxi drivers including my girlfriend who will not get in a cab alone. It's one reason Thais love their cars so much!

It is difficult at times NOT to have a dispute with some taxi drivers when they actually refuse to take you to your destination by the route you stipulate instead insisting on going (for example) to Ekkamai from Bagna via Rama 1V road to 'avoid traffic' and of course add baht to the fare.

The customer is always right and in the west if we tell a driver to take a specific route he will do so.

Thai acculturisation does throw up some strange personalities though. On one hand they are taught to be obedient and respectful while on the other, thai children are exposed to ceremonial flag raising and a form of indoctrination every morning of their lives, 'Thailand, never invaded, never lost a war, everything about Thailand is good and if he wears a uniform he is RIGHT' kinda deal. Sometimes I feel that the Thai personality is a mixture of subservience masking rage coupled with arrogance.

Don't get me wrong, most Thais are able to see throught the propoganda and they can be lovely people but some low-lives use Thai culture and Buddhist tenets as a mask to hide their bad behaviour.

The difference between taxi drivers and moto guys who work on Lower Suk and those at Bagna (for example) is marked. At Bagna they are actually friendly and respectful and happy for the extra 5 baht you may give them as a small tip every day.

The people here who told those who complained about Thai taxi drivers to 'go home if you don't like it', should accept that NOT everything about Thailand is wonderful and it is a pretty healthy thing to criticise rather than be afraid to speak out (like the Thai people often are)

In my opinion Thai people who generally apply Sam Ruam ( control one's emotions) swallow their anger too much and rather than get angry and shout or remonstrate as westerners do bottle up their emotions until they explode often with tragic results.

Thais who work with ex-pats or tourists should be taught anger management and some cultural pointers as well as some basic, job related English so they can cope better and keep us travelers safer too. Foreigners who work in education here have to adjust to Thai cultural norms and have to take a mandatory course in Thai culture.

Think not only about wilful attacks on foreigners and thai people alike but also the negligence shown by coach and bus drivers and boat pilots all over Thailand who put lives at risk daily and sadly have been responsible for many deaths on the roads.

The Thai government should be pressured into revising some of it's attitudes towards foreign visitors and ex-pat residents.

We are both deeply shocked about what happened to Troy and the only grain of comfort is that he seemed to go down fighting. Good on him.

However I will think twice before taking taxis in the future.

Edited July 11, 2013 by cheyenne

[connda]

The hideous event occured just a short distance from where I live and as someone who has had his share of taxi disputes this news hit me and my Thai girlfriend very hard.

Troy was picked up from Central Bagna about 8km away from Soi 68 and so the fare of 51 baht sounds about right.

One news story cites 'the passengers claims that the meter was rigged' but that probably came from the taxi murderer. Another talks about 'coffee being flung' in the murderer's face and another about water. The meter may indeed have been rigged but was re-adjusted to show 51 baht after the event?

It is all academic really as regardless of the details a grevious wrong was done by the taxi driver.

Someone in my office said today, 'I have lived here for 20 years and never had a problem with a taxi driver', while behind him everyone elase in the office made a grimace of incredulity!

Lots of Thai people distrust taxi drivers including my girlfriend who will not get in a cab alone. It's one reason Thais love their cars so much!

It is difficult at times NOT to have a dispute with some taxi drivers when they actually refuse to take you to your destination by the route you stipulate instead insisting on going (for example) to Ekkamai from Bagna via Rama 1V road to 'avoid traffic' and of course add baht to the fare.

The customer is always right and in the west if we tell a driver to take a specific route he will do so.

Thai acculturisation does throw up some strange personalities though. On one hand they are taught to be obedient and respectful while on the other, thai children are exposed to ceremonial flag raising and a form of indoctrination every morning of their lives, 'Thailand, never invaded, never lost a war, everything about Thailand is good and if he wears a uniform he is RIGHT' kinda deal. Sometimes I feel that the Thai personality is a mixture of subservience masking rage coupled with arrogance.

Don't get me wrong, most Thais are able to see throught the propoganda and they can be lovely people but some low-lives use Thai culture and Buddhist tenets as a mask to hide their bad behaviour.

The difference between taxi drivers and moto guys who work on Lower Suk and those at Bagna (for example) is marked. At Bagna they are actually friendly and respectful and happy for the extra 5 baht you may give them as a small tip every day.

The people here who told those who complained about Thai taxi drivers to 'go home if you don't like it', should accept that NOT everything about Thailand is wonderful and it is a pretty healthy thing to criticise rather than be afraid to speak out (like the Thai people often are)

In my opinion Thai people who generally apply Sam Ruam ( control one's emotions) swallow their anger too much and rather than get angry and shout or remonstrate as westerners do bottle up their emotions until they explode often with tragic results.

Thais who work with ex-pats or tourists should be taught anger management and some cultural pointers as well as some basic, job related English so they can cope better and keep us travelers safer too. Foreigners who work in education here have to adjust to Thai cultural norms and have to take a mandatory course in Thai culture.

Think not only about wilful attacks on foreigners and thai people alike but also the negligence shown by coach and bus drivers and boat pilots all over Thailand who put lives at risk daily and sadly have been responsible for many deaths on the roads.

The Thai government should be pressured into revising some of it's attitudes towards foreign visitors and ex-pat residents.

We are both deeply shocked about what happened to Troy and the only grain of comfort is that he seemed to go down fighting. Good on him.

However I will think twice before taking taxis in the future.

Well said!

[genobkk]

im 100% thai.firstly i want to tell you guys that what the driver did is a crime.thai people cant accept what he did.especially when it happened to farang.farangs are always welcome to thailand but let me get this straight to u guys.one thing that thais dont like about farang is how aggressive they are(im not talking about about 100%of farangs). for example i went out last week with my friends and i saw one big farang guy was fighting with a cab driver.from what i saw the driver tried to speak to him nicely but that guy kept yelling on him and challenge him to fight.after that about 10 mins the cab driver friends arrived then start punching the farang guy.in this kind of case i recommend you guys to not being aggressive back to them.get the police or any other thais who can help you is better.once you start being rude to them.a story is not gonna finish as soon as u think.this is from a thai 's perspective.no one can harm you as long as you dont start first.trust me guys!!i know thais!! by the way some of thai people they are truely asshol_e therefore just let it go.dont even thinking about fight coz they never fight fair!"Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

First I have tried to call the police and the police would do nothing sit and watch the taxi not use meter and the police told me to bad get another taxi. Another point is if Thais where more aggressive and did not except this BS of taxis refusing fairs, refusing meters, or other things Thailand would be a better place.

The Thai will be nice and smile and refuse your fair, or refuse meter, I will be rude back as they are being rude by not doing their job and cheating, I leave the back door of the taxi open when my trip is refused. So I guess Thais think if they cheat you, refuse a fair, if the driver does not raise their voice and if they smile it is ok?

Thais do think that we should just sit back and take getting ripped-off. I will not. The main issue is the lack of rule of law for both Thais and foreigners, rules are made but no one follows.

Trying to cheat me, refusing a fair smiling or not will get a reaction 10 or 20 THB more on the meter I do not care much, traffic, etc. if it is raining and every taxi is refusing me, I am not going to be nice and Thais should not be either. Thailand is what Thais make it. we have no power, the fact is they do little complaining although I read complaints to the taxi hotline number are up. The fact that you judge the foreigner for getting angry in your story without knowing the facts speaks why Thailand is not improving. Some things you should get angry about to make things better.

I took a taxi home from silom last night, no issues, most of the time I do not have issues, but the times I do are increasing, it went from no issues for several years to issues once per month or so, I have been in Thailand since 2001. The police will not help, your Thai friends will not have the balls to help so we are on are own, and it can end deadly.

Edited July 12, 2013 by genobkk

[magicianred]

im 100% thai.firstly i want to tell you guys that what the driver did is a crime.thai people cant accept what he did.especially when it happened to farang.farangs are always welcome to thailand but let me get this straight to u guys.one thing that thais dont like about farang is how aggressive they are(im not talking about about 100%of farangs). for example i went out last week with my friends and i saw one big farang guy was fighting with a cab driver.from what i saw the driver tried to speak to him nicely but that guy kept yelling on him and challenge him to fight.after that about 10 mins the cab driver friends arrived then start punching the farang guy.in this kind of case i recommend you guys to not being aggressive back to them.get the police or any other thais who can help you is better.once you start being rude to them.a story is not gonna finish as soon as u think.this is from a thai 's perspective.no one can harm you as long as you dont start first.trust me guys!!i know thais!! by the way some of thai people they are truely asshol_e therefore just let it go.dont even thinking about fight coz they never fight fair!"Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

First I have tried to call the police and the police would do nothing sit and watch the taxi not use meter and the police told me to bad get another taxi. Another point is if Thais where more aggressive and did not except this BS of taxis refusing fairs, refusing meters, or other things Thailand would be a better place.

The Thai will be nice and smile and refuse your fair, or refuse meter, I will be rude back as they are being rude by not doing their job and cheating, I leave the back for of the taxi open when my trip is refused. So I guess Thais think if they cheat you, refuse a fair, if the driver does not raise their voice and if they smile it is ok?

Thais do think that we should just sit back and take getting ripped-off. I will not. The main issue is the lack of rule of law for both Thais and foreigners, rules are made but no one follows.

Trying to cheat me, refusing a fair smiling or not will get a reaction 10 or 20 THB more on the meter I do not care much, traffic, etc. if it is raining and every taxi refusing me, I am not going to be nice and Thais should not be either. Thailand is what Thais make it. we have no power, the fact is they do little complaining although I read complaints to the taxi hotline number are up. The fact that u judge the foreigner for getting angry in your story without knowing the facts speaks why Thailand is not improving. Some things you should get angry about to make things better.

I took a taxi home from silom last night, no issues, most of the time I do not have issues, but the times I do are increasing, it went from no issues for several years to issues once per month or so, I have been in Thailand since 2001. The police will not help, your Thai friends will not have the balls to help so we are on ate own, and it can end deadly.

you cant do anything much in thailand.the government ignores what taxi drivers do.i dont think you can change them either.i totally understand what you mean.i cant except what they do to us either. whatelse we can change .i always recommend my farang friends that dont take a cab with no meter.otherwise you will end up with fight for sure.we cant change them but we can avoid them.trust me dont fight with them,you will never win.i love going to khaosarn or farang area.i have seen this kind of thing for long time.i recommended them to walk a bit furthur to the main road,dont take a cab at the ripped off spot.dont even think about fight back do you think you can beat locals?no way!when i traveled overseas i tried so hard to avoid this kind of thing but in thailand i fight for my right .i suggest you to do the same.trust me you cant win this game.your life is more precious than a taxi fare.dont get me wrong i still hate what they do to farangs or thais.my recommendation is for people who still love their lifes.you cant change things here but you can avoid them. :-)

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited July 12, 2013 by magicianred

[Berkshire]

How about telling me in your own words what you think the motive was?

i don't have a clue what his motive was ... i would guess there has been some dispute over the fare, but we can't even be sure about that. but i think it's pitiful people on here saying stuff like ..

"No one with half a brain would suggest that the farang victim was completely innocent in this case"

or

"but he was at least partially to blame for being belligerent"

the poor guy is dead and can't defend himself from halfwits making cockeyed assumptions on here about what he did to provoke a taxi driver to kill him with a sword !!

It's amazing no one can get beyond the actual act to even discuss the "why's" of what happened. As I've said before, if there is no motive, then what are you suggesting? That this guy and other Thais would just randomly murder farangs for no reason whatsoever? Is that how you see life in Thailand? If so, I do not agree. Thais will rarely attack farangs without being provoked. If you think it's ok to disrespect or insult the Thais anytime it pleases you, than do it. Frankly, I don't give a hoot what you do or what happens to you as a result. Go on hating.

[genobkk]

im 100% thai.firstly i want to tell you guys that what the driver did is a crime.thai people cant accept what he did.especially when it happened to farang.farangs are always welcome to thailand but let me get this straight to u guys.one thing that thais dont like about farang is how aggressive they are(im not talking about about 100%of farangs). for example i went out last week with my friends and i saw one big farang guy was fighting with a cab driver.from what i saw the driver tried to speak to him nicely but that guy kept yelling on him and challenge him to fight.after that about 10 mins the cab driver friends arrived then start punching the farang guy.in this kind of case i recommend you guys to not being aggressive back to them.get the police or any other thais who can help you is better.once you start being rude to them.a story is not gonna finish as soon as u think.this is from a thai 's perspective.no one can harm you as long as you dont start first.trust me guys!!i know thais!! by the way some of thai people they are truely asshol_e therefore just let it go.dont even thinking about fight coz they never fight fair!"Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

First I have tried to call the police and the police would do nothing sit and watch the taxi not use meter and the police told me to bad get another taxi. Another point is if Thais where more aggressive and did not except this BS of taxis refusing fairs, refusing meters, or other things Thailand would be a better place.

The Thai will be nice and smile and refuse your fair, or refuse meter, I will be rude back as they are being rude by not doing their job and cheating, I leave the back for of the taxi open when my trip is refused. So I guess Thais think if they cheat you, refuse a fair, if the driver does not raise their voice and if they smile it is ok?

Thais do think that we should just sit back and take getting ripped-off. I will not. The main issue is the lack of rule of law for both Thais and foreigners, rules are made but no one follows.

Trying to cheat me, refusing a fair smiling or not will get a reaction 10 or 20 THB more on the meter I do not care much, traffic, etc. if it is raining and every taxi refusing me, I am not going to be nice and Thais should not be either. Thailand is what Thais make it. we have no power, the fact is they do little complaining although I read complaints to the taxi hotline number are up. The fact that u judge the foreigner for getting angry in your story without knowing the facts speaks why Thailand is not improving. Some things you should get angry about to make things better.

I took a taxi home from silom last night, no issues, most of the time I do not have issues, but the times I do are increasing, it went from no issues for several years to issues once per month or so, I have been in Thailand since 2001. The police will not help, your Thai friends will not have the balls to help so we are on ate own, and it can end deadly.

you cant do anything much in thailand.the government ignores what taxi drivers do.i dont think you can change them either.i totally understand what you mean.i cant except what they do to us either. whatelse we can change .i always recommend my farang friends that dont take a cab with no meter.otherwise you will end up with fight for sure.we cant change them but we can avoid them.trust me dont fight with them,you will never win.i love going to khaosarn or farang area.i have seen this kind of thing for long time.i recommended them to walk a bit furthur to the main road,dont take a cab at the ripped off spot.dont even think about fight back do you think you can beat locals?no way!when i traveled overseas i tried so hard to avoid this kind of thing but in thailand i fight for my right .i suggest you to do the same.trust me you cant win this game.your life is more precious than a taxi fare.dont get me wrong i still hate what they do to farangs or thais.my recommendation is for people who still love their lifes.you cant change things here but you can avoid them. :-)

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You are Thai u can do a lot, protest the transport ministry, etc. protesting to overthrow the government does nothing, protest important issues that safe lives, if 1,000 Thais went to protest at the transport ministry that would send a strong message. Yes since the taxis master Thaksin puppet became PM, the taxis feel unpowered to do what ever they like, that is part of the issue

[Berkshire]

I'm just trying to figure out what you guys think the motive is. Let's be objective here: Thais do not just go around killing people, farang or otherwise. The reason this is big news is because it simply doesn't happen. And you guys chastising all Thais for being lawless thugs is not helping matters. All the Thais that have heard this news are equally horrified.

Rather than placing blame (although we know the driver is guilty of murder), what is the lessons learned? If you choose to believe that there's nothing the farang can do and that all foreigners in Thailand are doomed, I beg to differ. Having manners can save your life, quite literally.

I am inclined to think that a taxi driver who keeps a samurai sword in his car, and reportedly has a history of ya baaa use, will not necessarily have had a rational motive.

Something got him angry, certainly, but it doesn't necessarily have to be something that made much sense.

Someone else had mentioned that some taxi drivers do keep weapons for self-defense purposes. I would imagine taxi drivers are pretty defenseless most times, and are always alone. As for the yabaa, was he on yabaa at the time? If not, pretty irrelevant, wouldn't you say?

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and replies have been removed.

[Ciaran Mc]

How about telling me in your own words what you think the motive was?

i don't have a clue what his motive was ... i would guess there has been some dispute over the fare, but we can't even be sure about that. but i think it's pitiful people on here saying stuff like ..

"No one with half a brain would suggest that the farang victim was completely innocent in this case"

or

"but he was at least partially to blame for being belligerent"

the poor guy is dead and can't defend himself from halfwits making cockeyed assumptions on here about what he did to provoke a taxi driver to kill him with a sword !!

It's amazing no one can get beyond the actual act to even discuss the "why's" of what happened. As I've said before, if there is no motive, then what are you suggesting? That this guy and other Thais would just randomly murder farangs for no reason whatsoever? Is that how you see life in Thailand? If so, I do not agree. Thais will rarely attack farangs without being provoked. If you think it's ok to disrespect or insult the Thais anytime it pleases you, than do it. Frankly, I don't give a hoot what you do or what happens to you as a result. Go on hating.

! i haven't said there is no motive ... i have just said i don't have a clue what this guys motive was ... and let's be honest here ... neither do u !!

so what exactly is the point of speculating (wildly) on what the "whys" of what happened might be ??

and where have i said that "other Thais would randomly murder farangs" ?? i haven't .. so u are just making up BS !!

however it is quite possible for an individual, in any country in the world, to kill another human for what we may perceive as no real reason !! and why do u insist on using the term "farang" ??

and where have i disrespected or insulted Thais ??

to clarify .. i don't know what happened ... none of us do.

only 2 people really know what happened ... and unfortunately 1 of them is dead. the other 1 is the killer .. therefore it is in his interests to try and make himself look like the injured/insulted party as much as he can ... therefore (IMO) i would be very sceptical of anything he says .. not saying it's going to be lies, but there is that possibility.

so what is there to base a discussion on "why" this killing took place ??

the only thing i would feel confident in saying is .. "that no matter what Troy did, he didn't deserve to be killed" !!

Edited July 13, 2013 by sbk
flames removed keep it civil

[DavidBonnie]

Sure, more Brits and Aussies die in Thailand than any other overseas destination, but having SEEN many of those people in action, am I surprised ? How many here would be willing to stagger around Soho or Sydney's King Cross at 2am bombed out of their minds ? Before someone leaps on me, I'm not saying that was the case with our unfortunate friend, but I've done it many times on lower Suk (and in Patts, apparently a great place to meet one's maker) and survived the experience. Probably in more danger from vehicular traffic than frutcakes armed with swords.

Given a choice between Suk and the Cross, I'll take Suk every time. As for the comment re 'having to think about what to do' if attacked by someone with a sword, I doubt that there is a credible self-defence instructor on the planet who wouldn't advocate working on your cardio fitness and endurance drills ... I'll take laughter behind me over a disembowelment any day of the week !

Agreed, been in and out of Thailand since 1999 and I can drink and have a great time with absolutley no problems.

During all these years however I have seen huge amounts of horrendous attitude and behaviour from fellow 'farangs' both intoxicated and SOBER and everything in between.

A huge amount of these people talking to the Thai's like they are below them, or dirt, simply because the farang has money and they don't.

Treating Thai women like nothing more than 'pay-and-play by the hours' pieces of meat and TALKING ABOUT IT in public places and laughing with their mates like the Thais can't hear and understand. Thailand is one of the most welcoming countries in the world, and they are proud of that and proud of themselves and their country.

While travelling with my wife we had many problems because her passport was Thai and it hurt her.

I had to fight with many governments and border crossings.

I never forget in Mexico when she broke down crying and said to me 'Darling why the people all bad to Thailand, Thailand good to everyone, we welcome everyone'.

And she was right.

I have witnessed the outright tight-fistedness of farangs towards Thais who have so little, looking at these farangs who have everything angrily fighting over 10 baht.

It wrecks my head.

And for the poster who commented how taxi drivers treat white farangs different that affluent asians... You ever wonder WHY?????

Farangs have unfortunatley abused their position of good fortune in a previously very welcoming nation. It is the young, always the young, who will look in anger as their parents, sisters are berated, abused, and taken advantage of, look on in anger.

The young grow up.

The young HAVE grown up.

There are many good farangs go to thailand.

And its ok to drink, its ok to have fun with the ladies, its ok to barted reasonably.

Its not ok to act with lack of decency and respect to other people and another culture.

Its no ok to be degrading, or abusive.

Thailand has suffered DECADES of BULLSHIT from foreigners, surely you don't think sooner or later the farang will reap what they sow???

Do you think if the shoe was on the other foot and you grew up in a poor farangland for generations, for decades, watching everyday Asians, affluent for no reason other than trade and economic imbalances maintained by wars and violence (yes us) coming to your country treating your parents like crap, talking shit to people, screwing your sister, mother who only do it to support themselves and family and treating them like dirt.

Do you think you'd be any different.

I don't know what provoked this attack IN PARTICULAR, but I see clearly what has invoked a growing anti-farang sentiment in a country and people I love very much.

Sir, you are dreadfully out of line given that a man has been killed, shame on you. Your post is imflammatory and clearly; oh so clearly written by a man who has bought into Thai culture in the absence of his own under the influence of a thai woman. Because wars are often precipitated by the USA is no reason to abandon all rational thought. We cannot change the fact that we are wealthier than the Thais but I can inform you that for certain should the proverbial be on the other foot I for one would not be selling my daughter for a gold medallion. Please do not try to tell me that Thais do not do this, I have seen it with my own eyes. Also do not thoughtlessely excuse murder by citing economic inequality. You are out of your depth.

Please consider the circumstances and effect discreetly.

Cheers!

[frankold]

Just something to think about.  How often do we hear about foreigners getting violently assaulted for disputing a taxi or tuk tuk fare?  Too often!

Maybe Piklington paid the cabby something before getting out of the cab?  We don't know.  Maybe he paid nothing?  We don't know.  Maybe he threw coffee on the cabby?  We don't know.  Maybe he didn't throw coffee on the cabby?  We don't really know. 

What do we know?  Only what the cabby has disclosed to the BIB, and what the BIB has disclosed to the press.  And we know what we see on the video, although it has been interpreted in more than one way by various posters on TV.  I've looked at the slow motion video a bunch of times.  The video clearly starts showing the cabby, armed with a long machete (way longer then 12 inches) taking a swing at Piklington who is standing, unarmed, in a sideways position.  Was he getting ready to try to run or was he preparing to attempt to defend himself?  No one will ever know. 

He may be fabricating the story or he may be telling the truth.  We don't know.  Either way though, the video shows the cabby attacking an unarmed man with a deadly weapon that led to that man's death.  The reason for the attack will probably only come into play during the cabby's trial -- was the act a murder or manslaughter?  From my perspective, I look at the video and I see a murder.  But that's up to the Thai judicial system to figure out based on the results of a BIB investigation.   Most of us probably won't like the outcome, but it's not our say. 

Let me give you another scenario that should have happened.  If Pilkington bilked the cabby for his fare, and/or threw coffee on him, the cabby could have called the BIB. He could have taken a picture of Pilkington with his cell phone. He could have yelled "Thief, thief, thief" and enlist others to apprehend and detain Pilkington until the BIB showed up and then press charges. Or he could just accept that he got screwed over.  Like, that's what is expected of us foreigners.  We're pretty much expected to just roll over and accept rip-offs, and most of us do just that.  What's the alternative?  Getting into an unwinnable confrontation with a Thai National?  

 

Personally I hope the SOB taxi driver gets throw in jail until he rots.  And I wish the Thai government would take steps to stop the criminal assaults on foreigners by taxi drivers, tuk tuk drivers, jet ski operators, and other rip-off artists who use physical violence to intimidate foreigners who use their services or visit their establishments. 

But, This is Thailand.  I'm not going to hold my breath.

You don't get out of a secure/safe car armed with a samurai sword to defend yourself ;-)

[SCARLETIBIS1]

Just something to think about. How often do we hear about foreigners getting violently assaulted for disputing a taxi or tuk tuk fare? Too often!

Maybe Piklington paid the cabby something before getting out of the cab? We don't know. Maybe he paid nothing? We don't know. Maybe he threw coffee on the cabby? We don't know. Maybe he didn't throw coffee on the cabby? We don't really know.

What do we know? Only what the cabby has disclosed to the BIB, and what the BIB has disclosed to the press. And we know what we see on the video, although it has been interpreted in more than one way by various posters on TV. I've looked at the slow motion video a bunch of times. The video clearly starts showing the cabby, armed with a long machete (way longer then 12 inches) taking a swing at Piklington who is standing, unarmed, in a sideways position. Was he getting ready to try to run or was he preparing to attempt to defend himself? No one will ever know.

He may be fabricating the story or he may be telling the truth. We don't know. Either way though, the video shows the cabby attacking an unarmed man with a deadly weapon that led to that man's death. The reason for the attack will probably only come into play during the cabby's trial -- was the act a murder or manslaughter? From my perspective, I look at the video and I see a murder. But that's up to the Thai judicial system to figure out based on the results of a BIB investigation. Most of us probably won't like the outcome, but it's not our say.

Let me give you another scenario that should have happened. If Pilkington bilked the cabby for his fare, and/or threw coffee on him, the cabby could have called the BIB. He could have taken a picture of Pilkington with his cell phone. He could have yelled "Thief, thief, thief" and enlist others to apprehend and detain Pilkington until the BIB showed up and then press charges. Or he could just accept that he got screwed over. Like, that's what is expected of us foreigners. We're pretty much expected to just roll over and accept rip-offs, and most of us do just that. What's the alternative? Getting into an unwinnable confrontation with a Thai National?

Personally I hope the SOB taxi driver gets throw in jail until he rots. And I wish the Thai government would take steps to stop the criminal assaults on foreigners by taxi drivers, tuk tuk drivers, jet ski operators, and other rip-off artists who use physical violence to intimidate foreigners who use their services or visit their establishments.

But, This is Thailand. I'm not going to hold my breath.

You don't get out of a secure/safe car armed with a samurai sword to defend yourself ;-)

Well put. And I just read a report (unconfirmed) that the police report does NOT mention finding any coffee stains inside the cab. So where did all that coffee go that the Thais on this site claim the deceased threw at the cabbie? I said it several times. The cabbie's story made zero sense logically. And apparently the so called Thai witnesses who claim to have seen him throwing the coffee have evaporated as well. The article also stated his sister and wife said he never drank coffee except in the morning. And this is a guy who supported an entire Thai family and other family members sending three children not his to school at great expense. Yeah, this guy sounds like a complete <deleted> who ripped off a cabbie for 51 baht.

[brewsterbudgen]

Good to see this story getting front page coverage in today's Bangkok Post, with a very sympathetic article and interview with the victim's family.

[connda]

Just something to think about. How often do we hear about foreigners getting violently assaulted for disputing a taxi or tuk tuk fare? Too often!

Maybe Piklington paid the cabby something before getting out of the cab? We don't know. Maybe he paid nothing? We don't know. Maybe he threw coffee on the cabby? We don't know. Maybe he didn't throw coffee on the cabby? We don't really know.

What do we know? Only what the cabby has disclosed to the BIB, and what the BIB has disclosed to the press. And we know what we see on the video, although it has been interpreted in more than one way by various posters on TV. I've looked at the slow motion video a bunch of times. The video clearly starts showing the cabby, armed with a long machete (way longer then 12 inches) taking a swing at Piklington who is standing, unarmed, in a sideways position. Was he getting ready to try to run or was he preparing to attempt to defend himself? No one will ever know.

He may be fabricating the story or he may be telling the truth. We don't know. Either way though, the video shows the cabby attacking an unarmed man with a deadly weapon that led to that man's death. The reason for the attack will probably only come into play during the cabby's trial -- was the act a murder or manslaughter? From my perspective, I look at the video and I see a murder. But that's up to the Thai judicial system to figure out based on the results of a BIB investigation. Most of us probably won't like the outcome, but it's not our say.

Let me give you another scenario that should have happened. If Pilkington bilked the cabby for his fare, and/or threw coffee on him, the cabby could have called the BIB. He could have taken a picture of Pilkington with his cell phone. He could have yelled "Thief, thief, thief" and enlist others to apprehend and detain Pilkington until the BIB showed up and then press charges. Or he could just accept that he got screwed over. Like, that's what is expected of us foreigners. We're pretty much expected to just roll over and accept rip-offs, and most of us do just that. What's the alternative? Getting into an unwinnable confrontation with a Thai National?

Personally I hope the SOB taxi driver gets throw in jail until he rots. And I wish the Thai government would take steps to stop the criminal assaults on foreigners by taxi drivers, tuk tuk drivers, jet ski operators, and other rip-off artists who use physical violence to intimidate foreigners who use their services or visit their establishments.

But, This is Thailand. I'm not going to hold my breath.

You don't get out of a secure/safe car armed with a samurai sword to defend yourself ;-)

Not to say that the US is the epitome of "blind justice" and judicial fairness, but in Thailand, what is the chance of Mr. Pilkington's family receiving justice in this case? I think Bah Bah Bo Bo pretty much wraps up the nationalistic group-think that Thais have about foreigners: All Farangs are rich and arrogant, and treat Thai people badly. Mr. Pilkington already has his skin color and nationality going against him. It will be interesting to see how the judge rules in this case when it comes to trial. What evidence is admissible? How much of the admissible testimony is fabricated (we'll never really know)? How much of a nationalistic bias will the court have in this case (this is my primary worry)? Personally, I don't think justice will prevail imho. Time will tell.

[HoudiniXLogic]

Either ways, whatever their nationalities may be, what motives may be, a murder was committed.

After a lot of years, I do get why a lot of taxi-drivers refuse passengers. Apart from the 4am turn-in time for rented cabs (these dudes rent a cab for like 800 baht a day), most of them aren't even from Bangkok. This is why a lot of people also distrust them, because rather than adapting to the values of city life, they try to bring their back-country behaviour to here. Basically just imagine a hick from some buttf*** southern state coming to work in NY or Boston, and bringing that whole thing over with him. Thats what these taxi drivers do here. And another thing is that the ones around Sukhumvit would rather just drive around there from mall to condo to mall to mall, etc. because of the ease of the next potential customer, rather than send someone far where they're not sure where if they're gonna get another customer, or if they do that the next customer might request somewhere even more riduculously further away.

[tropo]

Either ways, whatever their nationalities may be, what motives may be, a murder was committed.

After a lot of years, I do get why a lot of taxi-drivers refuse passengers. Apart from the 4am turn-in time for rented cabs (these dudes rent a cab for like 800 baht a day), most of them aren't even from Bangkok. This is why a lot of people also distrust them, because rather than adapting to the values of city life, they try to bring their back-country behaviour to here. Basically just imagine a hick from some buttf*** southern state coming to work in NY or Boston, and bringing that whole thing over with him. Thats what these taxi drivers do here. And another thing is that the ones around Sukhumvit would rather just drive around there from mall to condo to mall to mall, etc. because of the ease of the next potential customer, rather than send someone far where they're not sure where if they're gonna get another customer, or if they do that the next customer might request somewhere even more riduculously further away.

So basically what you're saying is that people born and raised in Bangkok are good people and trustworthy and out-of-towners are bad... and that this taxi driver was probably an out-of-towner because he was bad.

BTW, this incident took place on Sukhumvit. It wasn't "ridiculously further away".

Edited July 14, 2013 by tropo

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed.

[sms747]

T

Troy was picked up from Central Bagna about 8km away from Soi 68 and so the fare of 51 baht sounds about right.

One news story cites 'the passengers claims that the meter was rigged' but that probably came from the taxi murderer. Another talks about 'coffee being flung' in the murderer's face and another about water. The meter may indeed have been rigged but was re-adjusted to show 51 baht after the event?

.

An 8 kilometer fare with no holds up would be 73 baht, no way could it be just 51-check next time you take a taxi

Edited July 14, 2013 by sms747

[asiancup2007]

You might expect that the police would conduct some random checks of taxis for weapons, even if just for show.

[ILMW]

I've made numerous posts on the BANGKOKPOST areticle since July 7th yet none of them have appeared. My posts weren't in any violation, derogatory, profane or any of sorts. ANYHOW..Let me say it here...

I am an American holidaying/living in Bangkok for the past 7 years. I have read all 5 pages of comments up until this Post of my own and I hope to cover everything to the best of my recollection. I will start off and say that in my 7 years of being in Thailand I have had numerous encounters and challenges regarding the Taxis here. I have learned to adapt to the cultures, traditions and standards of the Thai people and I'm still learning everyday.

*****THIS INCIDENT*****Based on the facts provided in the article, taxi driver statements, witness statements and video footage, this is what I conclude

[FIRST] I don't know where "opposite the Bang Na department store" is, however, if he was picked up opposite I assume he had positioned himself on the side of sukhumvit in which he needed to travel. So 51baht from that pick-up to Soi 68, where his body was found is very realistic.

[sECOND] It's quite believable at that point and time, blocks before a BTS station that you would hit traffic at a standstill. ?*An exchange of words took place and the victim exited the the taxi, angry, walking in the same direction.*? The driver leaned over/rolled down the pax window in an effort to collect the meter amount.

?*Another verbal exchange ensued involving the throwing of an empty coffee cup*? The victim continued walking away, not posing a threat.

[THIRD] Driver admits he retrieved a weapon from his trunk with the intent to "threaten" the victim. Obviously the driver would have to run after/behind the victim to catch up to him. The unarmed victim who posed no threat turned around to a quick approaching irate sword wielding taxi driver to defend himself. A struggle ensued and the "panicked" taxi driver fled the scene leaving a fatally wounded victim. The driver then had the presence of mind to discard his bloodied shirt and the murder weapon.

#1 Video shows a long thin silver sword-like weapon at least 24" inches NOT a machete. NOT 18cm (7")

#2 A sword in his trunk? If you carry a weapon to legally defend yourself for fear of your life, it should be immediately accessible to you as in that LIFE/DEATH moment you won't have the opportunity to retrieve it from a trunk unless YOU intend to be the aggressor.


[MY OPINION] - I don't believe alcohol/drugs (meth) were a factor. I don't believe the driver was taking the long way. I don't believe the meter was tampered with. I think when the driver approached stand still traffic, he made a comment about needing more baht. I think a seasoned foreigner would see where this was going and exit the taxi in a huff for someone attempting to take advantage of him. (As I have done myself) I believe when the driver saw him exit the taxi, he realized he had just better collect what was due by yelling out the left window and be done with it, I believe the victim saw his last opportunity to act out his anger by throwing an empty cup in the open window with some loud expletives. (If it had liquid in it, I don't believe he would have thrown it) I believe the driver "LOST FACE" and reacted by whatever means he felt necessary to regain "FACE"

[THAI CULTURE] We all know/learn quickly what "FACE" is & what it means to a Thai if they lose it. It's standard & understood as a form of respect within Thai culture. Land of smiles, non-violent religion, mere ignorance or being a foreigner with a big wallet will not exclude/exempt you from the consequences of not respecting thus causing a Thai to lose "FACE". It is culture to smile, laugh & not let them show how they truly feel about you. They are also human, with feelings & emotions. Dare you cross one & you just might find yourself one night, in a dark soi holding your intestines in your arms from falling out of your body.

THE END LINE IS: The driver went to his trunk, armed himself with a weapon he had concealed in that trunk which served no purpose in his line of work, he chased AFTER/behind an unarmed man who was posing no immediate threat to him, who was walking away from him, wearing flip-flops..under his own admission to "scare" the passenger/victim. Anyone who is abruptly approached from behind with an irrate person carrying a long weapon is going to turn in defense, unless you have close quarter hand to hand trainning you will turn and fight off a weapon of any size otherwise you will run from a small weapon or stand guard or get within close proximity of someone with a large awkward weapon like a chair, broom, sword to avoid serious injury. This case being a sword, you wold want to get within close proximity out of swing range, a struggle ensued and the victim died from massive loss of blood from stab wounds to his heart as noted in other reports/articles. The driver fled the crime scene, had the presence of mind to hide/discard his bloody shirt and murder weapon. This was not temporary insanity due to a coffee cup as the driver had again stated the cup was empty in the Bangkokpost article. This was not over 51 baht neither... THIS WAS a loss of "FACE" and the driver had his feelings hurt.

51 baht ($1.70usd) was NOT the issue. It was a war between ego and face. I am truly saddened by this story as many other people including children are now affected. I am sorry for the victim, his wife, kids and family that he supported and I am also sorry for the driver, his wife, kids and family that he supported. It was senseless

If the odds of winning the lottery were as good as the odds of encountering a dishonest taxi driver, we'd all be rich. I've heard all the stories from no change, no meter, flat rates, additional night fees, sceneic routes, intentionally heading towards traffic areas, debying rides due to traffic and so on. If traffic is their only gripe and part of the job they don't like, of the many careers they could have chosen why did they choose being a taxi driver? Theres going to be traffic. PERIOD! You simply educate yourself, know the roads, know the detours, know the backways, shortcuts and master your chosen career. Start your shift with a roll of 10baht coins, 50x20baht bills and start youor shift and enjoy the many people you encounter from all over the globe, with many experiences, stories and better your english for free. Also get out from your seat and assist with luggage and maybe openning a door won't break your arm and give your mobile to that person, maybe just maybe they will call you for their return to the airport or while they are in Bangkok. From the moment people arrive at the airport to when they leave Thailand travelers main issue seems to be the taxis and those hotels that condone such flat rates. Yes I also included hotels. Inside hotels there may be a sign that they have fixed a flatrate for all taxis to the airport of 500b yet if you walked 40 feet to the curb and hailed a taxi you would pay 250b INCLUDING TOLLS. SO hotels condone such as well just for a mere kick-back. Some hotels go the extra mile and when you get in a taxi from their hotel the doormen will give you a card, with the taxi ID/Plate# written on it for your protection. Get used to looking at the drivers picture in the front left windshield and making sure its your driver even snapping a picture with your cell phone along with the yellow metal plate on the inside doors, make it obvious too if you must. Sure they are just trying to make a living but from MY experience at least HALF try to get away with something. Its not the amount, its the principle. More often than not I would have given a 100b bill rather than have them go through the act of attempting to look for change and/or the embarassment of waiting for such a small amount of change UNTIL they try to scam me. Then I get out, close the door or have them see me hold up my mobile phone assuming I have taken a picture and the incident won't end there.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Absolutely dreadful.

Don't argue with Thais, because their lack of appreciation for the gift of life is so scant, this is an all too common reaction.

If life is so sacred to Buddhists, then tell me why Thailand is head and shoulders above any other nation in the murder of tourists and expats.

Is Thailand really head and shoulders above any other nation in the murder of tourists and expats? I find that very hard to believe, are you taking the population of countries and expats into this statistic? Although I believe Thais are amongst the biggest cowards (not them all), if you mind your own business, and stay sober, Thailand is one of the safest countries in the world.

The murder rate is very high in Thailand, but I've no idea how many of the victims are foreigners.

Violent death rate in Thailand is 13 times higher then in Germany, 8 times higher than in the UK:

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/country-health-profile/thailand

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/country-health-profile/germany

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/country-health-profile/united-kingdom

I would argue that murder rates are absurdly low in the UK and Germany; how does Thailand compare with countries with similar socio-economic levels would be a more apt comparison.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Please be aware that this man's Sister is watching this story unfold and reading what we say,

so don't attack the character of the innocent party in this dreadful story,

apparently the driver tried to rip this poor man off and when he refused the exorbitant fare he chased him and murdered him in cold blood.

he should be decapitated with his own sword(live by it,die by it)

Tracy,you have all my sympathy,

and fellow Thai Visa Members(particularly the Thai Visa CSI-ers and Apologists),

please keep it respectful.

I don't think anyone would intentionally mean to attack the character of the victim in this case. By Western standards, there would be no moral or legal defense to attacking and killing an unarmed person when one's own life was not in immediate jeopardy. However, we are not dealing with a Western country or culture here and that's where it gets more complicated. I will leave it at that.

I think we can all use this tragic incident as a reminder, however, how important it is to keep one's cool in Thailand, especially in interactions with lower class socio-economic groups. Anyone who lives in Bangkok will have had many frustrating instances with taxi drivers, from dodgy meters to taking the scenic route. Many a time I've wanted to curse out the driver, leave a taxi without paying, or throw the money at him and alight, and have done all three on various occasions, but it doesn't mean it was a smart thing to have done. However, even if one is tired, hot, and frustrated, always remember it's never more than a few dollars even to pay a bent-meter's fare and not worth the potential consequences of mixing it up with an equally tired, hot, and frustrated taxi driver.

Edited July 14, 2013 by OMGImInPattaya

[Ciaran Mc]

I would argue that murder rates are absurdly low in the UK and Germany; how does Thailand compare with countries with similar socio-economic levels would be a more apt comparison.

i would suggest that is a ridiculous arguement to make ... IMO a murder rate can NEVER be too low, as even 1 murder is 1 too many !!

having spent 16 years living in Asia i get the impression life is seen as relatively cheap here compared to home !!

[ShopBoy]

I found the detailed crime re-enactment video

can it be posted ?

[tropo]

I found the detailed crime re-enactment video

can it be posted ?

I can't see any reason why not.... go ahead and post it.

[bulmercke]

I found the detailed crime re-enactment video

can it be posted ?

That would be very interesting to view. I guess you can post it as it's in everyone's interest to do so.

[soundman]

I found the detailed crime re-enactment video

can it be posted ?

The official police re-enactment video?

Of course you can post it.

[frankold]

T

Troy was picked up from Central Bagna about 8km away from Soi 68 and so the fare of 51 baht sounds about right.

One news story cites 'the passengers claims that the meter was rigged' but that probably came from the taxi murderer. Another talks about 'coffee being flung' in the murderer's face and another about water. The meter may indeed have been rigged but was re-adjusted to show 51 baht after the event?

 

.

An 8 kilometer fare with no holds up would be 73 baht, no way could it be just 51-check next time you take a taxi

I'd be surprised if it was much more than 5km. So 51 appears to br spot on.

[HoudiniXLogic]

Either ways, whatever their nationalities may be, what motives may be, a murder was committed.

After a lot of years, I do get why a lot of taxi-drivers refuse passengers. Apart from the 4am turn-in time for rented cabs (these dudes rent a cab for like 800 baht a day), most of them aren't even from Bangkok. This is why a lot of people also distrust them, because rather than adapting to the values of city life, they try to bring their back-country behaviour to here. Basically just imagine a hick from some buttf*** southern state coming to work in NY or Boston, and bringing that whole thing over with him. Thats what these taxi drivers do here. And another thing is that the ones around Sukhumvit would rather just drive around there from mall to condo to mall to mall, etc. because of the ease of the next potential customer, rather than send someone far where they're not sure where if they're gonna get another customer, or if they do that the next customer might request somewhere even more riduculously further away.

So basically what you're saying is that people born and raised in Bangkok are good people and trustworthy and out-of-towners are bad... and that this taxi driver was probably an out-of-towner because he was bad.

BTW, this incident took place on Sukhumvit. It wasn't "ridiculously further away".

No I just said that out-of-towners bring their hillbilly life to BKK and try to force it on everybody rather than adapting to city life. Actually for a good number of people living in sukhumvit, Ramkamhaeng is considered to be "ridiculously further away", Even though its possible to walk from Major Ekkamai to the Mall Ramkamhaeng in 30 - 50 minutes.