Could you have settled in Thailand without the help from a woman?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

i spoke about it to my wife years ago and her answer was so what ,its their problem ,not ours.

First you say I was speaking 'bullshit'.

Now you say your wife agrees with me, but what other people think doesn't matter.

Or am I not understanding your posts again?

Edited July 25, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[OldChinaHam]

Women.

More trouble than they are worth. (But only when you are first acclimating to Thailand. After that I love to look at women. Be with them. Be friends with them. Talk to them. Etc., etc., etc. I tend to not like male friends much. Very boring people, men.)

Actually, it is very important, and much better for one in the long run, to first get setup in Thailand

Begin learning the language

Know how to obtain your needs without depending on anyone, female or male, local or not loco.

And then when you are feeling comfortable and when you have the time,

Then gradually take it slow and begin getting to know some nice girls, women, whatever,

But never become too dependent

And try to give more than you receive. (I do NOT mean financially, I just mean in a relationship, if each tries to give more than they receive, then they will be happier with their partner.)

These are very wise words and wise advice I here impart unto you.

Take it or risk unhappiness.

I know of which I speak, having tried things many ways, in various countries, when I was fresh off the boat.

[umbanda]

When I first started to come to Thailand, I setup my own bank accounts, rented my own apartment, bought my own food, did my own washing (organized laundry later), etc, etc, etc. So, I could live here by myself, no problem.

But, to answer the title of the OP, could you settle in Thailand without help from a woman, the answer would have to be probably not. Sometimes I need a controlling feature in my life, one of the many things my wife has provided for me since I've been living here.

Good to see this...after reading so many negative things about Thai women. Bad people are in any country of the world..and it is your choice to meet or be with them, and will be your choice or not to adapt and understand their way of life and thinking. And I also agree....if you are an independent person you will appreciate the company of an attentive Thai woman. If you are a 'dependent"....you will be taking advantage by any women in any country...LIke in any other country or situation...men have to take the time to find the right women.....and particularly in Thailand women can help men a lot, ask the hotel and restaurant owners, and any farang in business here...Just be fair.

[rubberduck]

I don't understand the OP's question, why would one need a Thai lady to build up something in Thailand ?? Many would have been better off without one !

Lawyers are more useful then Thai women.

[SteeleJoe]

Answer to question in Topic Title:

Apparently I could, because I did.

I was 19 and knew no one here...

Likewise.

I was not 19 at the time but knew people here who were of some assistance, but not essential.

I can't even remember being 19, but am pretty sure I was once, although I suspect at 19 I would have made a real hash out of settling in Thailand.

I know I was once nineteen as I've got photos. And even some memories...

As for people being of assistance, I had plenty - some old hand expats and some Thais I met due to my openness and keen interest in Kettering them (due in part to my youth - which also increased people's interest in me and likely increased the degree to which they wanted to help . But I took the OP's question - and I still do - to be something quite different: guys who meet someone, get in a relationship and then that person largely facilitates their settlement. That wasn't my story.

I found a place to live - in an all Thai neighborhood (and in those days, unlike now, there were places in Bangkok where you'd NEVER see non-Thais), got work (because I already had about 5 years DJing and befriended DJs who let me play and then was offered work - which led to other things), and asked people questions and - as I always have - read a LOT on a subject that greatly interested me: in this case, Thailand.

Women? Loads and loads and they were definitely part of what I was enjoying but they were a byproduct of my approach to life here rather than a reason for it. Some of them gave me some practical assistance but most of them were around my age but in some ways less worldly and not necessarily a lot more capable than I.

[i claudius]

i spoke about it to my wife years ago and her answer was so what ,its their problem ,not ours.

First you say I was speaking 'bullshit'.

Now you say your wife agrees with me, but what other people think doesn't matter.

Or am I not understanding your posts again?

Look i am busy right now watching a piece of high art tv that i downloaded this morning from pirate bay , actually its a rubbishy comedy show ,but i will just say that you didn't say anything about "not caring " what people think only that its what everyone including the neighbours think ,but lets not split hairs as you obviously are unable to remember what you wrote a short time ago ,i am finished now as its not worth going on talking about it .so remember ,look up at the stars once in a while ,you might ,just might see something better in Thai people.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

so remember ,look up at the stars once in a while ,you might ,just might see something better in Thai people.

Where did I say bad things about Thai people?

Dissing myself would just be daft.

Edited July 25, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[i claudius]

I was recently thinking about this too.

I can't actually think of one situation where having a local girl acting as an intermediary for a foreigner is actually useful to the foreigner.

First, it stops you thinking for yourself and learning the language.

Second, they are always seeking personal gain from you (commission for them on everything at the very least, large ticket items put in their name at worst).

Third, all other Thais will assume the girl is/was a sex worker of some kind, so you will be socially disadvantaged (true or not doesn't matter).

Fourth, you are insulated from most of the reality of Thailand, so you are living a complete fantasy life.

Fifth, they will be a drag on your finances, the children that aren't yours are needy, the family hand is always stretched out.

Sixth, they are serving their own best interests, never yours.

Better for a foreigner to deal with things on their own and stand on their own two feet IMHO.

(When was your last holiday in the west where you had everything done for you be a local girl that left school at age 13?)

This is what you said ,remember ,cant see anything nice about Thai women or their Family

[SteeleJoe]

"As for people being of assistance, I had plenty - some old hand expats and some Thais I met due to my openness and keen interest in Kettering them..."

The automatic error correction is doing my head in...

I don't even know what "Kettering" is or what word I was trying to use. I was young and open to meeting new people and having almost any experience - it's incredible that I didn't get into even worse trouble than I eventually did (which was plenty bad enough) or sooner/more frequently - and because of that youth, people were often interested (I didn't see many guys my age around back then - this is before KSR and I didn't stay on Soi Ngam Duplee or in it's environs) and were probably more inclined to help.

[Nana Cowboy]

A lot of obsessing here about whether someone knows the language. I know zero Thai. Never tried to learn it never will. What do I need it for? I don't socialize or interact with locals. I don't give a rat's arse what anyone thinks about that. I lived here 7 years with an Issan lady of the night. I took care of everyday stuff. She scrapped me and then I met the girl of my dreams 4 years ago and married her. I let her do EVERYTHING and I'm the recluse.I don't drive, shop, pay bills, nothing. When we go to Bangkok or my country I do everything and she's the recluse. It aint broke and I aint fixing it. Whether someone comes to my country and learns or speaks English I don't care about either. Everyone is on their own trip and I'm good with that.

[benalibina]

Why do people generalize? ,firstly our Thai neighbours are what i would call middle class ,my wife in no way looks,behaves or talks like a bar girl(and i am not denigrating them or their husbands) she certainly did not leave school at 13 and i seriously believe none of our neighbours think she ever worked in a bar ,she actually for a time worked for the buisness i ran in BKK and before that worked in her sisters buisiness for many years .

neither she nor her familly are needy she certainly in the 20 years we have been married ,both here and in the UK she has not "served her best interests ,but those of our familly and to some extent my daughters in England. she has also never wanted a commission for anything we have done and i am sure there are many other couples like us ,at least the ones we know are ,you sir not only talk bullshit ,but i presume go around with low class women.and have never met a decent one ,but then for that you have to be decent yourself.

Do you speak Thai?

After 20 years you should be completely fluent.

Let's have a chat via PM, Thai script only.

Its nothing to do with the fact that my Thai is not perfect ,i was talking about the fact that you just generalize about things that you only see from one angle ,Oscar Wilde said "all of us are in the gutter ,but some of us are looking up at the stars" you obviously are not in the second group yet.

So you don't read or write Thai then?

And your speaking level, beginner, intermediate, advanced, fluent?

20 years is a long time to not learn your wife's language.

Agreed. People love to get on that soapbox and rail about how much they love Thailand and respect Thais, but their actions don't back up their beliefs.

Anyone who truly regards Thailand and wishes to understand her, would have made a supreme effort to learn the language through and through. Hard to establish credibility after living here 20 years and not knowing the language. How much can a person respect Thais and Thailand with this being the case? Really, there's no excuse.

What if a Thai lived in the west and still couldn't read and write English, much less speak it properly -- how would she be viewed? Why should any westerner be exempt from this same reasoning?

Western point of view ! Thais do not care that much if a foreigner after how many years living there, does not speak thai.

[Madgee]

Second and third point, hardly, except if there is a large age gap between you, then sure. But for those with partners around the same age, this doesn't come into it. It also depends on how the girl dresses, acts etc. Body language is everything.

Nope, most Thais will assume any girl with a foreigner is a hooker.

Doesn't matter what their relative ages are or how either of them dresses.

That's just the way Thais think.

bullshit ,

+1

All I can say is you (AOA) must have a serious attitude problem with Thai women.

I just showed my GF your ludicrous post and she chuckled, called you pathetic and asked me if you were gay!

[craigt3365]

Everybody's different, but I couldn't have done it without my wife. We were living in the US before. Moved here and renovated a house. It would have been impossible for me to do this alone.

Back home, I would have been responsible for everything. Kinda nice being here and having her take care of a bunch of stuff.

I've tried learning Thai. Just not easy for everyone. Spanish? No problem. Thai? Big problem.

[SteeleJoe]

Why do people generalize? ,firstly our Thai neighbours are what i would call middle class ,my wife in no way looks,behaves or talks like a bar girl(and i am not denigrating them or their husbands) she certainly did not leave school at 13 and i seriously believe none of our neighbours think she ever worked in a bar ,she actually for a time worked for the buisness i ran in BKK and before that worked in her sisters buisiness for many years .

neither she nor her familly are needy she certainly in the 20 years we have been married ,both here and in the UK she has not "served her best interests ,but those of our familly and to some extent my daughters in England. she has also never wanted a commission for anything we have done and i am sure there are many other couples like us ,at least the ones we know are ,you sir not only talk bullshit ,but i presume go around with low class women.and have never met a decent one ,but then for that you have to be decent yourself.

Do you speak Thai?

After 20 years you should be completely fluent.

Let's have a chat via PM, Thai script only.

Its nothing to do with the fact that my Thai is not perfect ,i was talking about the fact that you just generalize about things that you only see from one angle ,Oscar Wilde said "all of us are in the gutter ,but some of us are looking up at the stars" you obviously are not in the second group yet.

So you don't read or write Thai then?

And your speaking level, beginner, intermediate, advanced, fluent?

20 years is a long time to not learn your wife's language.

Agreed. People love to get on that soapbox and rail about how much they love Thailand and respect Thais, but their actions don't back up their beliefs.

Anyone who truly regards Thailand and wishes to understand her, would have made a supreme effort to learn the language through and through. Hard to establish credibility after living here 20 years and not knowing the language. How much can a person respect Thais and Thailand with this being the case? Really, there's no excuse.

What if a Thai lived in the west and still couldn't read and write English, much less speak it properly -- how would she be viewed? Why should any westerner be exempt from this same reasoning?

Western point of view ! Thais do not care that much if a foreigner after how many years living there, does not speak thai.

A western point of view of the Thais point of view!

I've heard many Thais aver very much to the contrary of what you claim.

I tend to avoid the topic as people get defensive and think one is being an elitist language snob or it turns into some sort of absurd pissing match but the fact is that my experience here was MASSIVELY changed by the sheer luck (it certainly wasn't foresight) of me deciding to start learning Thai within 2 days of arriving and working hard at it ever day. And the ways I which my experience changed goes far, far beyond mere practicalities or even how it helped me understand Thais and Thailand, but also to the way I was perceived by Thais. This latter fact has been confirmed me for me by Thais hundreds of times (at least) over the decades, both implicitly and many times quite explicitly.

[louse1953]

I was recently thinking about this too.

I can't actually think of one situation where having a local girl acting as an intermediary for a foreigner is actually useful to the foreigner.

First, it stops you thinking for yourself and learning the language.

Second, they are always seeking personal gain from you (commission for them on everything at the very least, large ticket items put in their name at worst).

Third, all other Thais will assume the girl is/was a sex worker of some kind, so you will be socially disadvantaged (true or not doesn't matter).

Fourth, you are insulated from most of the reality of Thailand, so you are living a complete fantasy life.

Fifth, they will be a drag on your finances, the children that aren't yours are needy, the family hand is always stretched out.

Sixth, they are serving their own best interests, never yours.

Better for a foreigner to deal with things on their own and stand on their own two feet IMHO.

(When was your last holiday in the west where you had everything done for you be a local girl that left school at age 13?)

Very jaundice way of looking at life.You can have your cake and eat it too.Why would you let any person run your life,just cos she was your gf or wife.

[louse1953]

Stand on your own two feet...no question..100% right..

The biggest difference between foreigners who came here through the 70, 80 and most of 90 was that they were self sufficient well travelled etc..who came for the travel experience and found out about its charms later..basically looking for adventure, these types still exist but go else where now..

I regret that it will sound like another version of the tired old "well, you should have seen like it USED to be.../ It was much better when I got here..." and so on - guys were saying it when I got here - but I strongly suspect that the above is largely true. Certainly it appears that way to me and it certainly applies with me and the guys I met when I got here and the few years after...

Rayong is spot on,best post i have read in ages.

[chrisinth]

Second and third point, hardly, except if there is a large age gap between you, then sure. But for those with partners around the same age, this doesn't come into it. It also depends on how the girl dresses, acts etc. Body language is everything.

Nope, most Thais will assume any girl with a foreigner is a hooker.

Doesn't matter what their relative ages are or how either of them dresses.

That's just the way Thais think.

bullshit ,

Well there you go...I asked my girlfriend...she said...probably around 100%, because Thai people are just stupid. Maybe it's my sense of not wanting to believe how idiotic it is. So I retract my disagreement.

She also said, it's hard as coming from the west, we think of everyone as people, but Thai's will use any reason to class someone lower than them, so they can fill superior.

The issue is more that so many Thai girls are selling themselves especially from Issan and the North Country and hence it perpetuates when these girls find a foreigner (and thus Bangkok girls (even the decent ones) get grouped with them).

So there you go...she's told me this before..I just never fall into the class trap...guess my Australian, people are people (except for Bogans) is too ingrained.

Glad to see there are some having difficulty settling here without the help of a woman.

On the other hand, think of all the fun you would have had finding out for yourself that perhaps not everything your girlfriend has told you is kosher......................

[louse1953]

Answer to question in Topic Title:

Apparently I could, because I did.

I was 19 and knew no one here...

.

Maybe a new topic some day. I hope so.

How does a 19 year old immigrate to and remain in Thailand?

Same way anyone else might, I suppose. Visit and decide you want to stay, then work out how. (Immigration issues, work...the usual).

To be fair, my experience was probably fairly extraordinary and perhaps my choices were too. And it was a VERY different Thailand in 1982...

sorry.

Not meant to pry on your privacy.

A lesson perhaps for those who try to immigrate to LOS before the magic retirement age.

I overstepped my bounds.

My apologies.

Become a monk.

[cobra1]

Ive lived here 11yrs no problem exept my latest g/f thinks ive just got off a banana boat have travelled round thailand lived in a few differnent cities and places no problem i speak ok thai coz i like to learn languages she's more of a hinderance than help good job i live alone and 3hrs away from her lol so no 2 your question theres a hell a lot of us guys that settle in thailand with no need to have a thai lady to baby sit us it's my life no1 elses and iam ok running it just the way i like it

[Amras]

bullshit ,

Well there you go...I asked my girlfriend...she said...probably around 100%, because Thai people are just stupid. Maybe it's my sense of not wanting to believe how idiotic it is. So I retract my disagreement.

She also said, it's hard as coming from the west, we think of everyone as people, but Thai's will use any reason to class someone lower than them, so they can fill superior.

The issue is more that so many Thai girls are selling themselves especially from Issan and the North Country and hence it perpetuates when these girls find a foreigner (and thus Bangkok girls (even the decent ones) get grouped with them).

So there you go...she's told me this before..I just never fall into the class trap...guess my Australian, people are people (except for Bogans) is too ingrained.

Glad to see there are some having difficulty settling here without the help of a woman.

On the other hand, think of all the fun you would have had finding out for yourself that perhaps not everything your girlfriend has told you is kosher...................... width=20 alt=wai.gif>

What..were did I say I was having difficulty? I lived here, had a gf (different one), broke up with her, moved to Bangkok from Chiang Mai and just happened to meet my current one, who suited the type of person I enjoyed being around. Don't see where the problem is? It was all via choice, I'm actually quite content living alone.

Ahh the, my gf's a lier and she's not telling me truth. Pretty hard, since we live together, but good on ya for giving it a go.

[Amras]

Ive lived here 11yrs no problem exept my latest g/f thinks ive just got off a banana boat have travelled round thailand lived in a few differnent cities and places no problem i speak ok thai coz i like to learn languages she's more of a hinderance than help good job i live alone and 3hrs away from her lol so no 2 your question theres a hell a lot of us guys that settle in thailand with no need to have a thai lady to baby sit us it's my life no1 elses and iam ok running it just the way i like it

Except that you seem to have forgotten one thing in your time living here. Grammar. There exists these things called, commas, fullstops and punctuation. It makes reading what you say a whole lot easier.

[benalibina]

@ SteeleJoe,

In the whole 19 years that i am, 1 way or another, connected to Thailand, i have never been told by ANY thai person that i should learn the thai language. The 1st girl i met spoke english quite well so did not need to learn thai, as tourist only. The 2nd 1 spoke hardly any english so i needed to learn some thai in order to communicate. In the time till know i can speak thai on a basic level without ever taking lessons. Learning a language and speaking it, in country of residence, has only benefits. Personally i speak thai with a foreign mind, thats where i come from. Thais speak english based on a thai mind. Thats where they come from. It all depends ofcourse as well in what circles one moves. In the circles i have moved no 1 ever pushed or said to me to learn Thai. But thats my experience !

[Amras]

Second and third point, hardly, except if there is a large age gap between you, then sure. But for those with partners around the same age, this doesn't come into it. It also depends on how the girl dresses, acts etc. Body language is everything.

Nope, most Thais will assume any girl with a foreigner is a hooker.

Doesn't matter what their relative ages are or how either of them dresses.

That's just the way Thais think.

bullshit ,

+1

All I can say is you (AOA) must have a serious attitude problem with Thai women.

I just showed my GF your ludicrous post and she chuckled, called you pathetic and asked me if you were gay!

I don't know...I told my girlfriend the same thing and she agreed with him...

Maybe your gf is in denial about what strangers really think about her when she's with you (mine isn't, she just doesn't give a shit about it or what anyone else cares). Some people refuse to believe it because they don't want to. I normally fall into this (when thinking about other people). Seems like your gf is the same. Especially by asking you if he were gay....??

[Neeranam]

I tend to avoid the topic as people get defensive and think one is being an elitist language snob or it turns into some sort of absurd pissing match but the fact is that my experience here was MASSIVELY changed by the sheer luck (it certainly wasn't foresight) of me deciding to start learning Thai within 2 days of arriving and working hard at it ever day. And the ways I which my experience changed goes far, far beyond mere practicalities or even how it helped me understand Thais and Thailand, but also to the way I was perceived by Thais. This latter fact has been confirmed me for me by Thais hundreds of times (at least) over the decades, both implicitly and many times quite explicitly.

I agree totally

[Amras]

Most Thais DO think that a woman with a foreigner is a hooker. Thais are very perceptive. alt=laugh.png width=20 height=20>

Don't know what you were quoting from what I said.....since it's not there!

But, I changed and said...apparently they do and it's in a large part (according to a Thai) because many (although not all) are/have been, because soooo many girls work in that industry.

[richard10365]

Who cares.

[surfinglife]

Answer to question in Topic Title:

Apparently I could, because I did.

I was 19 and knew no one here...

19....so I assume no education, no ambitions fulfilled, no money (probably still no money as farangs cannot work in Thailand, not for real money anyway). I moved here in the prime of my life, a few million in the bank, have learned the language and have had no long term romantic involvements. I did it my way and I think right way:)

[MILT]

Easy answer for me. I would never have made Thailand my home if not for the help of the wife or her family and many other Thai friends that I have befriended over the years. This doesn't mean that If I wanted to make Thailand my home that I could not have adapted and made a go at living here myself. I just never had the chance. I appreciate every Thai person that has tripped over themselves to help me get along here making life much eaiser. I don't see it as an negative. I find that when people say that they don't/didn't need help from GF, wife. partner whatever to live and adjust here in Thailand is in IMHO in denial.

[aTomsLife]

Agreed. People love to get on that soapbox and rail about how much they love Thailand and respect Thais, but their actions don't back up their beliefs.

Anyone who truly regards Thailand and wishes to understand her, would have made a supreme effort to learn the language through and through. Hard to establish credibility after living here 20 years and not knowing the language. How much can a person respect Thais and Thailand with this being the case? Really, there's no excuse.

What if a Thai lived in the west and still couldn't read and write English, much less speak it properly -- how would she be viewed? Why should any westerner be exempt from this same reasoning?

Western point of view ! Thais do not care that much if a foreigner after how many years living there, does not speak thai.

A western point of view of the Thais point of view!

I've heard many Thais aver very much to the contrary of what you claim.

I tend to avoid the topic as people get defensive and think one is being an elitist language snob or it turns into some sort of absurd pissing match but the fact is that my experience here was MASSIVELY changed by the sheer luck (it certainly wasn't foresight) of me deciding to start learning Thai within 2 days of arriving and working hard at it ever day. And the ways I which my experience changed goes far, far beyond mere practicalities or even how it helped me understand Thais and Thailand, but also to the way I was perceived by Thais. This latter fact has been confirmed me for me by Thais hundreds of times (at least) over the decades, both implicitly and many times quite explicitly.

My mileage has varied, perhaps it's a generational difference. The country has developed to a point, and there are enough foreigners here, that perhaps expectations are changing. The Thais I've interacted with have always shown me appreciation for my efforts, while often I've seen their patience tested with those who can't manage at all, particularly at work. Though Thais surely appreciate being able to gossip in front of us, too, when I start speaking Thai in banks and at markets, the faces of the people I'm speaking with immediately relax.

I applaud your efforts -- sounds like we had the same epiphany: within a couple days here, I decided learning Thai was a necessity. If I couldn't learn, I wouldn't stay. The best decision I made was to learn to read from the very start. I think a lot of people get frustrated and give up because learning to pronounce words by reading transliteration is a dead end in my experience.

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

In some sence, it is a pity that this thread is being misused like it is. It is the normal crowd of guys who have no problems whatsoever, and they are so extremely well fitted into society here in Thailand.

I think myself that the more a person is screaming out his own perfection and success in adapting into the thai way of life, the more of a failure is he in real life. I have been on this forum (Thaivisa) now I think since 2008, and I see all these millions of questions coming from guys that have absolutely no clue whatsoever, more than ordering in a beer at the bar, or buying food at Foodland..

Where are all these guys, that could have answered here in this thread. Because what I read here sofar, is mostly the normal kind of people that never in a lifetime will take a good idea and make something useful of it...

So much bullcrap in one thread, come on be honest, dont be so naiv and clever and never dare to open up.... OK I shall start than....I think that the OP has a point here,,,,, In many cases there are a woman behind the expat who is helping him to learn about the practicle obsticles in living his life here, and without this woman it would be so much harder to find out.....

Glegolo

If a topic is begun with a question that makes an assumption that simply isn't accurate in regards to me (among others), is it a misuse of the thread to point that out in my answer?

Speaking for myself, I never claimed to have no problems.

i have never claimed a problem free existence either. I have had issues a plenty, however they were my problems and solved accordingly.

I formed my own network of friends thai and otherwise and used (still use) them to offer assistance when necessary.

perhaps the people you seek are waiting for their women to come home and show them how to turn on the router?