Vicarious redemption. Of all the distasteful things in the OT and the NT this has to be the worst. The abrogation of personal responsibility. Pile your sins onto a lamb and drive it into the desert to die and so absolve yourself.

The scapegoat, to which you refer, was a community sacrifice whereby the sins of the entire community were placed on the scapegoat, which was driven out into the desert to carry those sins away.

Both yourself and neversure have missed the point. Is it ethical to shirk one's responsibilities?

Just resident expert HB left to answer the above.

Fella works his butt off for the good of mankind but considers the claims made theists to be nothing short of laughable will spent eternity in hell, yet a serial rapist who repents and accepts Jesus into their life on their deathbed is saved. What point moral responsibilities or if you prefer, moral accountability? There is no reason to believe this is true because the god of Abraham works in mysterious way right? In the same way that we know when something good happens it is divine Will but what if someone was deep in prayer for the opposite to happen? When they lose, it is mysterious ways, but when they win they know why. No thinking man can believe it which is WHY it needs to be taken on faith. Faith is gullibility and means belief without reason insofar that 'I take it on faith but know it to be true' is belief without reason. This should not be mistaken for 'hope' which is belief for reason such as when the bus is due.

I'd better get back on topic. Not sure that is much more to add to members posts other than my own opinion on the OPs subject with is the supposed virgin birth: No reason to believe it's true but even though it was missing from the gospel of Mark there is good reason to suggest it was there from the start. If pushed I wold say it was missing from Mark because it was the norm at the time, an everyday thing. To add a touch of Thainess I'll add. I was walking down a local soi the year before last with my sister, she pointed to one side and said look at that. I looked and saw a forest of coconuts (I live on Samui, coconuts everywhere). Coconuts Heather I said, see them wherever you go. No, she said, there is a man with a monkey. If I did have a blog I wouldn't write it on it as seeing a man with a monkey in a field of coconuts is normal. Perhaps for Mark, virgin birth or at least stories of virgin births were run of the mill.

I have time on my hands but not quite enough interest to gather more information on the virgin birth as described in the Bible. Either way the Christian theocracy wold remain unchanged, belief or disbelief in the virgin birth wouldn't have an ecclesiastical effect. Christianity needs the resurrection but not the virgin birth.

Contemplate this then.

Jesus had a "brother" named Joseph who is mentioned in biblical age records including a mention in the bible.

Now if Mary was a real virgin, how did Jesus's brother called Joseph come about?

To be fair, some experts believe that Joseph was actually a cousin .... the exact meaning of the Aramaic term "brother" is not really clear. Much later the term was translated as "brother" which implies he was a son of Mary and a true brother to Jesus.

Just to be clear the common language spoken in that time was NOT Hebrew, it was a now basically extinct language called Aramaic.

Nor is Mary ever actually referred to as a real virgin .... all it really says in the oldest texts is that she was "pure and unblemished as a woman".

My personal belief ... Greek myths from long before that time talk of a coming woman whose son will be of a godly birth and who will be a virgin.

These myths were well known in the area before "Jesus" was born.

The first references to Jesus and his origin don't go back much more than a century after he "died".

By that time there was already an oral tradition about his birth and life which had already incorporated the old Greek stories about a virgin.

And ... my personal opinion again ... Mary being a virgin, and Jesus being the literal son of God are just that Greek myth added in to the story of Jesus.

But I'll freely admit I'm no expert, and I simply don't know for certain.

How could I know?

I could talk about this for hours ... but hat's not relevant to the question asked.

There is no way to tell if Joseph was older or younger than Jesus. If he was younger, Mary could have still been a virgin when she conceived Jesus - if you believe that sort of thing.

I am not a religious person, though raised a Catholic.

Religion is not about proof, it is about faith.

Someone who is a devout Catholic once said to me that she is not interested in proof, because proof denies faith and without faith her beliefs are nothing.

As a boy I had to learn these prayers: which possibly answer the questions in the OP.

The Lord's Prayer
Our Father, who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy will be done on earth,
As it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those that trespass against us.
Lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
Amen

Hail Mary
Hail Mary, full of grace.
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

The Apostles Creed.
I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth;
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary;
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried.
He descended into hell;
the third day He rose again from the dead;
He ascended into heaven,
is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Holy Catholic Church,
the communion of Saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.
Amen.

Catholics, and many other Christians, believe in the Holy Trinity: God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit; three in one.

See also Catechism of the Catholic Church, Simplified

Edit:

Should add that I am not pushing the Catholic line, simply using it as it was the faith I was raised in and so know about; though I no longer follow it.

I used to repeat those prayers over and over as a child until I was 13 and started refusing to go to church. The "Our Father" (The Lord's Prayer) is the only one that I can remember more than one line of now.

The Hail Mary is the one I can remember; maybe it's because for my penance after confession the priest always got me to say more Hail Marys than either of the other two.

As for the other two; I cheated and looked them up!

Which reminds me of the story about a Catholic boy and a C of E boy arguing.

The Catholic boy says "Our priest knows more than your vicar."

To which the C of E boy replies: "Of course he does; you tell him everything!"