Thai amnesty bill: Fears of major clash if rivals face off at House

[h90]

What's all the fuss about ... if your brother was a convicted criminal, and also worth billions of USD, and you became Prime Minister, wouldn't you change the law to grant him an amnesty?

Who wouldn't?

Just one problem - the amnesty bill does not provide Thaksin any form of amnesty. In fact, it doesn't provide amnesty to any leaders of either the yellow shirt airport takeover or the red shirt Bangkok clashes.

The Democrat party, yellow shirt, or whatever name they've dreamed up this week (but still led by the same characters) do not want any form of reconciliation. After all, that would lead to ... Democracy.

lets wait and see....I am sure at the end Thaksin will get the amnesty.

You can't make a law that PAD and Democrats don't want. So much don't want that you need some emergency laws to protect yourself and call that reconciliation.

If he want reconciliation he wouldn't put his brother in law and later his sister in the PM chair (and having his other sister already on standby).

[Cnxforever]

The Shinawatra family will truly be the downfall of Thailand.

There can be no peace, no reconciliation as long as that family reside in Thailand.

Haven't they got it through their thick skulls yet?

Or does that family have bigger plans that cannot be spoken of?

the downfall of Thailand happened a long time ago - the Shinawatra family just shifted the status quo which the "old power clique" resents - all other countries in the area had their revolutions or where colonized Thailand has yet to have its revolution and Thaksin was clever enough to exploit this.

When will all of you finally get it ??? Power and money is all the players on both sides are interested in - there is no other reason whatever they might pretend!

NO Thai politician - whichever side they are on - NO army General gives a dam_n about the country and it's people - they are all here to fill their deep pockets! Looks like they have all the generals on their payroll with billions in bank accounts waiting for them - otherwise they (PT)would not move so bold now.

Since we have no say in this - sit back, relax and enjoy the show!

You say "...Thaksin was clever enough to exploit this...".

I say immoral enough to exploit this.

In fact I don't see that he's clever at all. His policies of mass handouts are pretty simple policies, but the difference

is that most people would not do this (on the paymasters scale) because it's simply immoral.

it depends on where your morals come from - from most western countries your point of few might be right.

From a Thais standpoint and different moral values - it is perfectly ok to exploit / take advantage of a situation like this.

Mass handouts??? What was Abhisits first action after he was installed by the military as PM ?? You remember the handouts yes? Problem was he gave the money to the wrong people - he gave it to the people who already had a fairly decent income - not the poor.

Have you ever bothered to find out how much Officers of the armed forces involved in every coup in this country have been paid afterwards for taking part in the coup???

Have you ever looked behind the "saving the country from corrupt politicians" phrase used in several coups in the past?? They are plain and simply robbers - nothing else. The information is all out there.

Nobody here has any moral objections when it comes to making money and get more powerfull - and the more money involved the lower the bar for moral values is set!

And if power and money come together here they don't even care if they break the law - they go into the gold pot with both hands! Nothing will ever happen to them - when was the last time in this country you have seen somebody powerfull and rich who had broken the law go to prison?

Moral values in Thailand when it comes to power and money?? Greed rules! Just watch the Thai soaps on TV here! Welcome to Asia and especially to Thailand!

[jcb2001]

Watch BLUESKY TV live here...regards to topic here. http://www.tvjaa.com/stream/blueskychannel.html

Great TV. Thanks for sharing.

[Roadman]

What's all the fuss about ... if your brother was a convicted criminal, and also worth billions of USD, and you became Prime Minister, wouldn't you change the law to grant him an amnesty?

Who wouldn't?

Just one problem - the amnesty bill does not provide Thaksin any form of amnesty. In fact, it doesn't provide amnesty to any leaders of either the yellow shirt airport takeover or the red shirt Bangkok clashes.

The Democrat party, yellow shirt, or whatever name they've dreamed up this week (but still led by the same characters) do not want any form of reconciliation. After all, that would lead to ... Democracy.

So a pardon of any body that has committed criminal activity being a party leader or a lackey is a path to democracy? Take heed of what world bodies (HRW, UN) are saying which this is a rubber stamp to over riding one of the cornerstones of democracy and that is the law. Your definition of democracy sure as hell fits with the deluded Pheu Thai/UDD/Thaksin agenda which is basically we are the government and above the law. Wrong...democracy does not place anybody above the law, especially the criminal element within your own ranks that are being pardoned at any cost including to democracy.

[khunken]

What's all the fuss about ... if your brother was a convicted criminal, and also worth billions of USD, and you became Prime Minister, wouldn't you change the law to grant him an amnesty?

Who wouldn't?

Just one problem - the amnesty bill does not provide Thaksin any form of amnesty. In fact, it doesn't provide amnesty to any leaders of either the yellow shirt airport takeover or the red shirt Bangkok clashes.

The Democrat party, yellow shirt, or whatever name they've dreamed up this week (but still led by the same characters) do not want any form of reconciliation. After all, that would lead to ... Democracy.

You would have to be extremely naive or ignorant of PTP's lack of honesty in parliament and outside to believe that the bill being debated is fixed. The current bill can & very likely will be amended, added to and even other bills (e.g. Chalerm's bring Thaksin back bill) incorporated.

The Democrats have made it very clear to anyone with their eyes open that they will back reconciliation excluding Thaksin. They even supported the 'People's bill' proposed by some of the innocent victim's relatives - which the PTP & red shirts wouldn't support for selfish reasons.

Reconciliation would not be difficult if the Shin dynasty were removed from power.

Edited August 7, 2013 by khunken

[HAL9000]

This country will never get anywhere until they learn that if you don't like the government, you have to wait for the election.

[Skywalker69]

This country will never get anywhere until they learn that if you don't like the government, you have to wait for the election.

Tell that to the Zimbabwans? They have waited 33 years.

[kimamey]

The Shinawatra family will truly be the downfall of Thailand.

There can be no peace, no reconciliation as long as that family reside in Thailand.

Haven't they got it through their thick skulls yet?

Or does that family have bigger plans that cannot be spoken of?

the downfall of Thailand happened a long time ago - the Shinawatra family just shifted the status quo which the "old power clique" resents - all other countries in the area had their revolutions or where colonized Thailand has yet to have its revolution and Thaksin was clever enough to exploit this.

When will all of you finally get it ??? Power and money is all the players on both sides are interested in - there is no other reason whatever they might pretend!

NO Thai politician - whichever side they are on - NO army General gives a dam_n about the country and it's people - they are all here to fill their deep pockets! Looks like they have all the generals on their payroll with billions in bank accounts waiting for them - otherwise they (PT)would not move so bold now.

Since we have no say in this - sit back, relax and enjoy the show!

I don't have a vote but I do have a right to give my opinion.

I have my wife and family in Thailand and they do have a vote.

As for no politician or General giving a damn about the country or the people how do you know? I agree many are more interested in money and power but you will never get a group of people anywhere who all have the same objective. In the case of Abhisit and Suthep why are they still here waiting for a trial when they could just as easily move abroad with the money they have and become richer and more powerful there.

I view this as a bit more than entertainment but at least now we can see your interest in the current events.

[mikemac]

"What on earth were the Democrats thinking? They look timid, weak, and flaccid. They never should have started this march, just to end up looking so meek. Yes, T will win, because he is playing this game on an entirely different level. This looked absolutely pitiful."

No, what was pitiful was seeing Bangkok burning and held to ransom by a pack of paid thugs and murderers.

Just one problem - the amnesty bill does not provide Thaksin any form of amnesty. In fact, it doesn't provide amnesty to any leaders of either the yellow shirt airport takeover or the red shirt Bangkok clashes.

The Democrat party, yellow shirt, or whatever name they've dreamed up this week (but still led by the same characters) do not want any form of reconciliation. After all, that would lead to ... Democracy.

And your anal comment is leading to...a lot of people who are obviously a lot smarter than you shooting your anti-Democrat view down in flames.

[ginjag]

Thai News, fighting started in BKK---protesters-police 3-30pm

[15Peter20]

Thai News, fighting started in BKK---protesters-police 3-30pm

I can already feel the reactionaries getting excited. Do tell us more. The people that were tweeting on the ground at parliament house earlier evidently haven't got wind of it yet.

[sirchai]

Wouldn't it be against my contract with my school, I'd be one of them against this government.

I still remember when all red shirts drove to the capital in pick ups from the north east.I saw a few thousand of them. They were only in for the money...-

Edited August 7, 2013 by sirchai

[khunken]

Thai News, fighting started in BKK---protesters-police 3-30pm

I can already feel the reactionaries getting excited. Do tell us more. The people that were tweeting on the ground at parliament house earlier evidently haven't got wind of it yet.

Well if you could get away from using infantile labels for a moment, you could try looking up the other newspaper or switching on a local free-to-air TV station.

So far it's only a skirmish - the red shirt intimidation squad hasn't arrived yet.

[15Peter20]

Thai News, fighting started in BKK---protesters-police 3-30pm

I can already feel the reactionaries getting excited. Do tell us more. The people that were tweeting on the ground at parliament house earlier evidently haven't got wind of it yet.

Well if you could get away from using infantile labels for a moment, you could try looking up the other newspaper or switching on a local free-to-air TV station.

So far it's only a skirmish - the red shirt intimidation squad hasn't arrived yet.

Thank you. I feel appropriately admonished whilst also informed at the same time.

UPDATE: I've just flicked through Spring News, Thai PBS, ASTV, Blue Sky and a couple of other news channels but nothing on the fighting - just the parliamentary debate. Would it be possible for ginjag or anyone else to name the source of these reports of violence? Or is it against forum rules to do so?

UPDATE: richardbarrow tweets that the People's Army have decided to remain in their barracks at Lumpini park - no march on parliament house. No violence reported with them involved.

Edited August 7, 2013 by 15Peter20

[khunken]

Thai News, fighting started in BKK---protesters-police 3-30pm

I can already feel the reactionaries getting excited. Do tell us more. The people that were tweeting on the ground at parliament house earlier evidently haven't got wind of it yet.

Well if you could get away from using infantile labels for a moment, you could try looking up the other newspaper or switching on a local free-to-air TV station.

So far it's only a skirmish - the red shirt intimidation squad hasn't arrived yet.

Thank you. I feel appropriately admonished whilst also informed at the same time.

UPDATE: I've just flicked through Spring News, Thai PBS, ASTV, Blue Sky and a couple of other news channels but nothing on the fighting - just the parliamentary debate. Would it be possible for ginjag or anyone else to name the source of these reports of violence? Or is it against forum rules to do so?

UPDATE: richardbarrow tweets that the People's Army have decided to remain in their barracks at Lumpini park - no march on parliament house. No violence reported with them involved.

The 'violence' was some Democrat supporters who ignored their leadership's advice to go home, attempting to breach the police Maginot line. As I previously mentioned - look up the Post - there's a short article there about it.

[scorecard]

This country will never get anywhere until they learn that if you don't like the government, you have to wait for the election.

So how do you suggest things process whilst the paymaster and the get rich quick club keep inventing new mass hand outs, keep seriously and deliberately manipulating voters especially large groups of many unaware folks, and at the same time seriously raping the common wealth of all Thais to the extent of putting Thailand in serious debt which would take an estimated 50 years to pay off, and at the same time the get rich quick club have never once mentioned / announced any policy whatever which would create the circumstances whereby a large % of all Thais can have a much better quality of life through their own productivity?

Also, did you make the same statement when the paymasters paid mobs were burning Bkk?

[bigbamboo]

So this is what reconciliation looks like, always did wonder.

Saw a quote from someone somewhere, don't remember who :

Many may wonder what kind of government we have which cares only about its own stability and personalised agenda, and completely ignores the suffering its actions cause to people at large.

Looks about right.

"Many may wonder what kind of government we have which cares only about its own stability and personalised agenda, and completely ignores the suffering its actions cause to people at large"

Surely that's about the UK government.

I think you'll find it applies to most governments.

[Chrisswe]

But the majority of Thai people's don't whant to live under military dictatorship !! The problem is that Democratic party PAD and the old patronage coup makers don't have enough intellect to understand that. Remember Khun Thaksin is a "Goldmind" if you put him as an buiseness and Economic Senior adviser for Thailand.

[ginjag]

But the majority of Thai people's don't whant to live under military dictatorship !! The problem is that Democratic party PAD and the old patronage coup makers don't have enough intellect to understand that. Remember Khun Thaksin is a "Goldmind" if you put him as an buiseness and Economic Senior adviser for Thailand.

These positions are for persons that MUST keep their fingers out the till.

[Sunderland]

Where is the bloody Prime Minister in Parliament????

Sorry, the government loses any credibility it should have (on either side) when they can't be bothered to face the opposition in Parliament.

[MrSlatersParrot]

"What on earth were the Democrats thinking? They look timid, weak, and flaccid. They never should have started this march, just to end up looking so meek. Yes, T will win, because he is playing this game on an entirely different level. This looked absolutely pitiful."

They proved that they are mature and intelligent and prepared to protest peacefully. You want pitiful? Just wait until the red elites take to the streets.

Quote from the op:

“There is no turning back. We will not disclose our strategy. We will upgrade the rally and make a multi-pronged movement. We have constantly contacted Democrat members at the other rally site (in the Urupong area),” said the retired

navy officer.

Admiral Bannawit said at least 20,000 tear gas protection masks have been prepared for protesters as it was believed that police would shoot tear gas canisters into the demonstrators.

“We have assigned our people to infiltrate and observe many of the spots where we will ‘attack’. We will choose the right timing in making the move,” he said.

It is pitiful and all staged for the media.

[MAJIC]

POLITICS

Democrat-led protest ends for now : Suthep

The Nation

Former prime minister Chuan Leekpai stood side by side with Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajia

BANGKOK: -- The Democrat-led protest heading to the Parliament on Wednesday ended after police enforced Internal Security Act, prohibiting protesters from accompanying Democrat MPs to the Parliament.

Democrat leaders including Abhisit Vejjajiva, Chuan Leekpai and Suthep Thuagsuban led thousands of protesters from Urupong Intersection to the Parliament to protest against the amnesty bill.

They were blocked near Rajvithi Intersection and informed that the anti-government protesters were not allowed to go to the Parliament with Democrat MPs

City police commander Pol Col Wisarn Panmanee told the Democrat leaders that the order was issued City Police Commissioner Pol Lt Gen Kamronwit Thoopkrajang and was in line with the enforcement of the ISA.

The Democrats' argument that the protesters had no weapons and would leave the area after the Democrat MPs entered the Parliament’s compound failed to convince the commander.

Suthep then announced to the protesters that they should go home as Kamronwit had forbidden them from going further.

He said the protesters would be back when the amnesty bill passes the third reading.

-- The Nation 2013-08-07

What on earth were the Democrats thinking? They look timid, weak, and flaccid. They never should have started this march, just to end up looking so meek. Yes, T will win, because he is playing this game on an entirely different level. This looked absolutely pitiful.

I am asking myself if they are pitiful or if that is just the opening of a great plan.

Something like:

1 Government don't let demonstrators vent their feelings Abhisit stays with the demonstrators

2 Abhisit warns the government that this is not good

3 government makes the law

4 a "spontaneous" uprising of the people

5 Abhisit looks like the calm one who told before and he did not brake any law.

But I am missing the point where Abhisit can portray himself a great able leader.....he more looks like a coward in this plan.

Or there is really no plan?

Yes you are missing the point,Ahbisit is no coward,he could have left the Country before any charges were made against him,and you know very well the real coward jumped his bail,and left the Country for Dubai years ago!

[OzMick]

It is pitiful and all staged for the media.

Isn't that the idea of a peaceful protest?

Would it less pitiful if they brought their weapons, and proceeded to kill and terrorise the citizens of the city and security forces? Followed by a rash of arson when their demands are denied.

Edited August 7, 2013 by OzMick

[scorecard]

But the majority of Thai people's don't whant to live under military dictatorship !! The problem is that Democratic party PAD and the old patronage coup makers don't have enough intellect to understand that. Remember Khun Thaksin is a "Goldmind" if you put him as an buiseness and Economic Senior adviser for Thailand.

But the majority of Thai people's don't whant to live under military dictatorship !! The problem is that Democratic party PAD and the old patronage coup makers don't have enough intellect to understand that. Remember Khun Thaksin is a "Goldmind" if you put him as an buiseness and Economic Senior adviser for Thailand.

These positions are for persons that MUST keep their fingers out the till.

So you seem to be assuming that all coups in Thailand have ben conducted by military dictators.

Well that's simply not true, suggest you do some further research on this point.

Why do you connect dems, PAD instantly to coup makers, again get your facts right

Goldmine? No morals opportunist (who got rich on a telecoms monopoly handed to him on a plate

by a ruthless & nasty coup leader general who led a group of nasty generals who shot 200+ unarmed Thais

on the streets) might be a better description.

[OzMick]

But the majority of Thai people's don't whant to live under military dictatorship !! The problem is that Democratic party PAD and the old patronage coup makers don't have enough intellect to understand that. Remember Khun Thaksin is a "Goldmind" if you put him as an buiseness and Economic Senior adviser for Thailand.

Don't you mean "Goldfinger" - the fictional character with designs on Fort Knox?

After all, Thaksin has already gold-mined Thailand - he got the gold, Thailand got the shaft.

Edited August 7, 2013 by OzMick

[h90]

POLITICS

Democrat-led protest ends for now : Suthep

The Nation

Former prime minister Chuan Leekpai stood side by side with Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajia

BANGKOK: -- The Democrat-led protest heading to the Parliament on Wednesday ended after police enforced Internal Security Act, prohibiting protesters from accompanying Democrat MPs to the Parliament.

Democrat leaders including Abhisit Vejjajiva, Chuan Leekpai and Suthep Thuagsuban led thousands of protesters from Urupong Intersection to the Parliament to protest against the amnesty bill.

They were blocked near Rajvithi Intersection and informed that the anti-government protesters were not allowed to go to the Parliament with Democrat MPs

City police commander Pol Col Wisarn Panmanee told the Democrat leaders that the order was issued City Police Commissioner Pol Lt Gen Kamronwit Thoopkrajang and was in line with the enforcement of the ISA.

The Democrats' argument that the protesters had no weapons and would leave the area after the Democrat MPs entered the Parliament’s compound failed to convince the commander.

Suthep then announced to the protesters that they should go home as Kamronwit had forbidden them from going further.

He said the protesters would be back when the amnesty bill passes the third reading.

-- The Nation 2013-08-07

What on earth were the Democrats thinking? They look timid, weak, and flaccid. They never should have started this march, just to end up looking so meek. Yes, T will win, because he is playing this game on an entirely different level. This looked absolutely pitiful.

I am asking myself if they are pitiful or if that is just the opening of a great plan.

Something like:

1 Government don't let demonstrators vent their feelings Abhisit stays with the demonstrators

2 Abhisit warns the government that this is not good

3 government makes the law

4 a "spontaneous" uprising of the people

5 Abhisit looks like the calm one who told before and he did not brake any law.

But I am missing the point where Abhisit can portray himself a great able leader.....he more looks like a coward in this plan.

Or there is really no plan?

Yes you are missing the point,Ahbisit is no coward,he could have left the Country before any charges were made against him,and you know very well the real coward jumped his bail,and left the Country for Dubai years ago!

But he looks like it. Leading demonstrators to the parliament. Police says that he can not. He than just stop.

Anyway no other choice with less people than policemen. But it really looks bad.

The one in Dubai....of course.....

[vijer]

It sure would be nice if Thailand had some good investigative reporters. If I'm not mistaken, I think Koh Chang is owned by Thaksin. It wouldn't surprise me if he was there.

I thought Koh Chang was a national park that was opened to development. If it is owned by Taksin that is another reason to never visit the island again. The other reason being that the Thai's have F it up in the last 10 years.

[siampolee]

Interesting to see that the Democrats called off their protest march so as not to endanger the leadership no doubt and of course the rank and file members who were involved in that march.

Also the leadership of the Democrats have the decency and honour to actually remain to face charges in Thailand unlike the renegade convicted bail jumping felon now a resident of Dubai..Honour is indeed a word that does not figure in the vocabulary of Thaksin and his ilk.

A vastly different style of leadership from the Democrats compared to the to the Red Shirt leadership who led from the back and the comfort of four and five star hotels and as such they had no compunction about exhorting their rank and file members to defy the security forces and fight them and harry them.

Oh yes we saw a leadership that is involved with and who had the courage of their convictions to actually march with their supporters in the Democrats, unlike the Red Shirt leadership.

Does anyone recall Thaksins rallying cry to his supporters to man the barricades with their families?

Yet the next thing was that the Thaksin clan exited Thailand en-mass and were pictured shopping in the high end shopping mall of the region. Such a wonderful display of the courage of their convictions was it not..

Edited August 7, 2013 by siampolee

[zydeco]

It is pitiful and all staged for the media.

Isn't that the idea of a peaceful protest?

Would it less pitiful if they brought their weapons, and proceeded to kill and terrorise the citizens of the city and security forces? Followed by a rash of arson when their demands are denied.

It's the imagery. I don't think anyone expected or wanted the Democrats to charge the police barricade. I certainly did not. But the Democrats set this up as a dramatic venue to promote their cause. The organizers of the protest talked about it all in military terms, some even verging on apocalyptic terms. The least they could have done is march up to the police barricade and have delivered a moving, stirring speech that encapsulated and provided vividness for their position. Instead, they went up there and essentially said, "Okay, we quit. Everybody go home." That looked pathetic.

[Slip]

Calm down everyone- it's only day one. I hope that things will proceed in the same (relatively) peaceful way as they have begun. That is, after all, kind of the main point about peaceful protest. The present protesters and Khun Abhisit seem to understand this at least so far. If the reds storm in however then what?