Democrat 'farmer' Thaworn to join rubber price protests

[Lite Beer]

Democrat 'farmer' Thaworn to join rubber price protests
Chanikarn Phumhiran,
Krissana Tiwatsirikul
The Sunday Nation

Thaworn

BANGKOK: -- Following a clash between rubber planters and police in Nakhon Si Thammarat, Democrat Party deputy leader Thaworn Senneam said yesterday he would join the protest - as he is a farmer also affected by the drop in rubber prices.

The rubber planters' network said they would widen their protests on September 3 to "shut down the country" in protest against the plummeting price for the crop.

Responding to an accusation that the opposition Democrat Party was behind the protest, which led to Friday's clash that left dozens injured, Thaworn said he was also an affected farmer.

Most southern MPs own rubber plantations, so they were affected and had a right to join this protest, he said. He added that many Pheu Thai Party MPs were also rubber plantation owners, but failed to fight and had let other farmers down.

Later, at 11.30am, the rubber planters' network hosted a press conference at a coffee shop near the Democrat Party head office. Nawaranont Ananwannakorn, a leading member from the East-Central regions, commented that the Nakhon Si Thammarat rubber growers had acted hastily in blocking Asia Highway No 41 without waiting for the network to meet and agree on expanding their movement on September 3.

He explained that they had agreed to block main roads in all four regions on that day; 5,000 growers would block a road in Uttaradit; 30,000 growers in Nakhon Ratchasima's Sikhio district, while the southern farmers would block a road in Surat Thani.

In the Central and Eastern region, about 15,000 farmers would rally outside Government House, he added.

He also urged the government not to crack down on these protesters or the situation could escalate and become worse than what happened in Nakhon Si Thammarat's Cha-uat district.

If the government wished to avoid such protests, they should invite the leading members to negotiate before September 3, he said.

Calling for justice and urging the government not to treat farmers of one particular crop favourably, such as rice, while ignoring other farmers, he insisted the protest was not politically motivated.

Meanwhile, protesters in Nakhon Si Thammarat continued to block the road yesterday amid tension after the riot police's crackdown attempt on Friday. Pictures taken during the clash were also made into vinyl banners, while eight people arrested on Friday were released temporarily.

Police were ordered to withdraw from the area while nearby police booths were not manned because the protesters were still angry. It was reported that the PM's deputy secretary-general Thawat Boonfeung would heed their demand yesterday, but the farmers were still waiting at press time.

In related news, Nakhon Si Thammarat Governor Wiroj Jiwarangsan said he had instructed officials to probe a rumour circulating in social media that a police letter was sent to radio stations ahead of the protest crackdown to tell motorists to avoid the area, which was occupied by a demonstration of "white mask" protesters and rubber planters.

-- The Nation 2013-08-25

[ChrisY1]

Oooohhhh.........rubber farmers in the south complaining ???....does anyone think this govt. cares??

[hmj]

Drop in rubber prices. What will happen when tens of thousands rai of rubber
trees in Chiang Rai province come in production about 5 years from now?

[Zolt]

Obviously the solution is a price pledging scheme for rubber? Are the Dems going to champion that?

[Thait Spot]

Oooohhhh.........rubber farmers in the south complaining ???....does anyone think this govt. cares??

Rubber is a national crop.

Read the article again and note the locations of the protests.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Pimay1]

Drop in rubber prices. What will happen when tens of thousands rai of rubber

trees in Chiang Rai province come in production about 5 years from now?

Same thing here in Esaan.

[gerry1011]

Obviously the solution is a price pledging scheme for rubber? Are the Dems going to champion that?

No they won't, of course.

But if the PT does, then the Dems will use this as the latest excuse to (continue to) block the country.

That's what they champion after all

[sunseeker]

Rubber is a world commodity, the same as oil, gold silver, etc. You cannot fix the price or expect get a guarantee on the price. It is a case of supply and demand causing the fluctuation of value.

Edited August 25, 2013 by metisdead
Font reset to default forum font.

[aguy30]

No problem, make everyone happy. Why limit it to rice and rubber. Include all agricultural products. What about industrial products?. They could include petrolium products too. Just include everything.

The government should buy the entire output of all Thai products at 50% over market value. Everyone in Thailand can simply pay higher retail prices as they do now with rice. Never mind the small problem that no one outside of Thailand will buy the products unless they are sold at a discount and loss. This has been proven by the government's inability to sell the rice purchased under the rice scam plan. Thailand can become the international hub of warehouses for holding unsold products and raw materials.

Edited August 25, 2013 by aguy30

[LuckyLew]

Rubber is a world commodity, the same as oil, gold silver, etc. You cannot fix the price or expect get a guarantee on the price. It is a case of supply and demand causing the fluctuation of value.

Then why rice and not rubber?

[Thai at Heart]

Drop in rubber prices. What will happen when tens of thousands rai of rubber

trees in Chiang Rai province come in production about 5 years from now?

Isaan is already on line, 5 new processing factories already Edited August 25, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[aguy30]

Rubber is a world commodity, the same as oil, gold silver, etc. You cannot fix the price or expect get a guarantee on the price. It is a case of supply and demand causing the fluctuation of value.

Then why rice and not rubber?

Because it is more transparent than simply buying votes for cash. Not enough people involved in rubber to make much of a difference. It is the Thai government's money paying for the votes rather than the political party and individual politicians.

[Ackybang]

This is another typical misinformed and selfish dick talking.

Farmers growing foodstuffs, usually at a loss, or no profit should be subsidised, otherwise no-one eats. You can't live on chewing gum. I grow rice myself, and I've cut back production so we have enough organic rice to eat all Year, because to try and make a profit on larger scale production is futile, and next to impossible. Believe me, if you spend 100,000 baht on growing rice, you will end up selling it all for 100,000 baht, (as long as you don't fall victim to weather and disease), and have no compensation for your labour.

I long for the day when Thai's wake up and realise there's a bigger picture outside of the uneducated bubble they have been forced / encouraged to live in. Ironically enough, these Southern districts are and always have been staunch Democrat supporters, and possibly why Thaksin and his long term vengeance plan encouraged much of Issan to plant rubber all those Years ago, when he could. It doesn't take a genius to know if you flood the market with a certain commodity, it's going to lose it's value. I would be surprised if his mates would plant anything other than the commodities that are guaranteed to rise (ie, anything apart from rubber), because once you invest in rubber, and plant, you can only use the land to co-plant other consumables for around 3-4 Years tops on the same land.

It would possibly be worth more if you could eat the stuff, or make fuel out of it - food prices are being pushed up by the fact that the poorer demographics - the sheeple have, or are all still planting rubber, tricked into seeing huge easy profits before anything, and consequently easily tied into subsidised / debt laden tree investment programs controlling their future livelyhoods and choices. Over the next Years there will be an exponential increase in the amount being tapped, whilst their lands are tied up completely and enslaved, so they can all kiss goodbye the thought of an easy buck, aswell as being able to put cheap food on the table.

Rubber doesn't need so much looking after - certainly not as much as foodstuffs. Last Year, prices were up to nearly 100 baht per kilo for 'key yang', and much more for sheets of the stuff - which means the common man saw the long established tappers everywhere making fortunes - as a consequence, this Year, much of my area is now new rubber plantations - destined for nothing.

I believe the government is already sat on a massive stockpile of the stuff, and have been buying it in well above the market rates, so where's the possible resolve ? Are they trying to ruin the Country completely, while they still have the chance ? The South is full of wealth, and I doubt you would meet a well established poor rubber farmer down there. Many of them sit on their <deleted>, and let someone else look after and tap the trees for them for a percentage, so what's driving these people, other than downright short term greed ?

What good is closing down the Country's highways possibly going to do, or do they think building up resentment and detrimentally affecting other people's lives is the way forward ? Black hearted, whinging spoilt children.

[worgeordie]

As Rubber production rises in the North and Isan ,where most of the

voters live that voted for the Government,you can see that the Govt.,

will have to get engaged in Rubber buying at over World prices ,especially

when it gets near to General Election time.

A good time to get into the Warehouse and Storage business ,I think,as

who knows what the next pledging scheme will be, carrot farmers,potato

growers,coconut farmers, nothing is out of bounds .

regards Worgeordie

[Thai at Heart]

This is another typical misinformed and selfish dick talking.

Farmers growing foodstuffs, usually at a loss, or no profit should be subsidised, otherwise no-one eats. You can't live on chewing gum. I grow rice myself, and I've cut back production so we have enough organic rice to eat all Year, because to try and make a profit on larger scale production is futile, and next to impossible. Believe me, if you spend 100,000 baht on growing rice, you will end up selling it all for 100,000 baht, (as long as you don't fall victim to weather and disease), and have no compensation for your labour.

I long for the day when Thai's wake up and realise there's a bigger picture outside of the uneducated bubble they have been forced / encouraged to live in. Ironically enough, these Southern districts are and always have been staunch Democrat supporters, and possibly why Thaksin and his long term vengeance plan encouraged much of Issan to plant rubber all those Years ago, when he could. It doesn't take a genius to know if you flood the market with a certain commodity, it's going to lose it's value. I would be surprised if his mates would plant anything other than the commodities that are guaranteed to rise (ie, anything apart from rubber), because once you invest in rubber, and plant, you can only use the land to co-plant other consumables for around 3-4 Years tops on the same land.

It would possibly be worth more if you could eat the stuff, or make fuel out of it - food prices are being pushed up by the fact that the poorer demographics - the sheeple have, or are all still planting rubber, tricked into seeing huge easy profits before anything, and consequently easily tied into subsidised / debt laden tree investment programs controlling their future livelyhoods and choices. Over the next Years there will be an exponential increase in the amount being tapped, whilst their lands are tied up completely and enslaved, so they can all kiss goodbye the thought of an easy buck, aswell as being able to put cheap food on the table.

Rubber doesn't need so much looking after - certainly not as much as foodstuffs. Last Year, prices were up to nearly 100 baht per kilo for 'key yang', and much more for sheets of the stuff - which means the common man saw the long established tappers everywhere making fortunes - as a consequence, this Year, much of my area is now new rubber plantations - destined for nothing.

I believe the government is already sat on a massive stockpile of the stuff, and have been buying it in well above the market rates, so where's the possible resolve ? Are they trying to ruin the Country completely, while they still have the chance ? The South is full of wealth, and I doubt you would meet a well established poor rubber farmer down there. Many of them sit on their <deleted>, and let someone else look after and tap the trees for them for a percentage, so what's driving these people, other than downright short term greed ?

What good is closing down the Country's highways possibly going to do, or do they think building up resentment and detrimentally affecting other people's lives is the way forward ? Black hearted, whinging spoilt children.

Go and see who owns the major rubber export companies. The policy to expand into isaan was proposed by the companies because the plantations in the south are reaching the end of their lifetime. Throw in that a big percentage flows to China, throw in a train line through isaan to China and it's very much in the exporters interest to grow in isaan.

This I heard from one of the family members of one of the owners if one of the biggest exporters. He speaks Thai with quite a Singaporean twang.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[bigbamboo]

What next.... protests about the fall in the price of gold?

[barrybankruad]

When it comes to agricultural products all Governments get it wrong at times. Those of you from the U.K. may remember the butter mountains, wine lakes, the millions of gallons of milk dumped in disused quarries etc. Life has always been glut or famine. I'm glad I'm not Minister of Agriculture in this or any country.

[lemonjelly]

Democrat Party deputy leader Thaworn Senneam said yesterday he would join the protest - as he is a farmer ... ( read as; owns rubber plantations , but does not get up at 2 am to go and tap rubber, possibly never has )

[ChrisY1]

Oooohhhh.........rubber farmers in the south complaining ???....does anyone think this govt. cares??

Rubber is a national crop.

Read the article again and note the locations of the protests.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Quite correct TS...should have read and noted...

[Bosse137]

Ackybang has is absolutly correct!

[jeff2258]

Drop in rubber prices. What will happen when tens of thousands rai of rubber

trees in Chiang Rai province come in production about 5 years from now?

Rubber price will remain down for the next few years, this is because of global demand is falling. The government did try to do something about it but subsidising the price will never help in long run. We are depending on the main importer that is China and India, just hope that the demand increase in two years time.

[jeff2258]

This is another typical misinformed and selfish dick talking.

Farmers growing foodstuffs, usually at a loss, or no profit should be subsidised, otherwise no-one eats. You can't live on chewing gum. I grow rice myself, and I've cut back production so we have enough organic rice to eat all Year, because to try and make a profit on larger scale production is futile, and next to impossible. Believe me, if you spend 100,000 baht on growing rice, you will end up selling it all for 100,000 baht, (as long as you don't fall victim to weather and disease), and have no compensation for your labour.

I long for the day when Thai's wake up and realise there's a bigger picture outside of the uneducated bubble they have been forced / encouraged to live in. Ironically enough, these Southern districts are and always have been staunch Democrat supporters, and possibly why Thaksin and his long term vengeance plan encouraged much of Issan to plant rubber all those Years ago, when he could. It doesn't take a genius to know if you flood the market with a certain commodity, it's going to lose it's value. I would be surprised if his mates would plant anything other than the commodities that are guaranteed to rise (ie, anything apart from rubber), because once you invest in rubber, and plant, you can only use the land to co-plant other consumables for around 3-4 Years tops on the same land.

It would possibly be worth more if you could eat the stuff, or make fuel out of it - food prices are being pushed up by the fact that the poorer demographics - the sheeple have, or are all still planting rubber, tricked into seeing huge easy profits before anything, and consequently easily tied into subsidised / debt laden tree investment programs controlling their future livelyhoods and choices. Over the next Years there will be an exponential increase in the amount being tapped, whilst their lands are tied up completely and enslaved, so they can all kiss goodbye the thought of an easy buck, aswell as being able to put cheap food on the table.

Rubber doesn't need so much looking after - certainly not as much as foodstuffs. Last Year, prices were up to nearly 100 baht per kilo for 'key yang', and much more for sheets of the stuff - which means the common man saw the long established tappers everywhere making fortunes - as a consequence, this Year, much of my area is now new rubber plantations - destined for nothing.

I believe the government is already sat on a massive stockpile of the stuff, and have been buying it in well above the market rates, so where's the possible resolve ? Are they trying to ruin the Country completely, while they still have the chance ? The South is full of wealth, and I doubt you would meet a well established poor rubber farmer down there. Many of them sit on their <deleted>, and let someone else look after and tap the trees for them for a percentage, so what's driving these people, other than downright short term greed ?

What good is closing down the Country's highways possibly going to do, or do they think building up resentment and detrimentally affecting other people's lives is the way forward ? Black hearted, whinging spoilt children.

I agree on what you saying here, what good does it make to close down the highways? There is already a problem here and why creating few more? Acting like a child don't solve problems.

[Bkungbank]

Rubber will never win over rice scheme as they know cannot won and they are minority groups .

Edited August 25, 2013 by Bkungbank

[Nooky2]

Drop in rubber prices. What will happen when tens of thousands rai of rubber

trees in Chiang Rai province come in production about 5 years from now?

I thought the climate was too cool in the north to grow rubber trees. Apparently not.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Nooky2

[Nooky2]

This is another typical misinformed and selfish dick talking.

Farmers growing foodstuffs, usually at a loss, or no profit should be subsidised, otherwise no-one eats. You can't live on chewing gum. I grow rice myself, and I've cut back production so we have enough organic rice to eat all Year, because to try and make a profit on larger scale production is futile, and next to impossible. Believe me, if you spend 100,000 baht on growing rice, you will end up selling it all for 100,000 baht, (as long as you don't fall victim to weather and disease), and have no compensation for your labour.

I long for the day when Thai's wake up and realise there's a bigger picture outside of the uneducated bubble they have been forced / encouraged to live in. Ironically enough, these Southern districts are and always have been staunch Democrat supporters, and possibly why Thaksin and his long term vengeance plan encouraged much of Issan to plant rubber all those Years ago, when he could. It doesn't take a genius to know if you flood the market with a certain commodity, it's going to lose it's value. I would be surprised if his mates would plant anything other than the commodities that are guaranteed to rise (ie, anything apart from rubber), because once you invest in rubber, and plant, you can only use the land to co-plant other consumables for around 3-4 Years tops on the same land.

It would possibly be worth more if you could eat the stuff, or make fuel out of it - food prices are being pushed up by the fact that the poorer demographics - the sheeple have, or are all still planting rubber, tricked into seeing huge easy profits before anything, and consequently easily tied into subsidised / debt laden tree investment programs controlling their future livelyhoods and choices. Over the next Years there will be an exponential increase in the amount being tapped, whilst their lands are tied up completely and enslaved, so they can all kiss goodbye the thought of an easy buck, aswell as being able to put cheap food on the table.

Rubber doesn't need so much looking after - certainly not as much as foodstuffs. Last Year, prices were up to nearly 100 baht per kilo for 'key yang', and much more for sheets of the stuff - which means the common man saw the long established tappers everywhere making fortunes - as a consequence, this Year, much of my area is now new rubber plantations - destined for nothing.

I believe the government is already sat on a massive stockpile of the stuff, and have been buying it in well above the market rates, so where's the possible resolve ? Are they trying to ruin the Country completely, while they still have the chance ? The South is full of wealth, and I doubt you would meet a well established poor rubber farmer down there. Many of them sit on their <deleted>, and let someone else look after and tap the trees for them for a percentage, so what's driving these people, other than downright short term greed ?

What good is closing down the Country's highways possibly going to do, or do they think building up resentment and detrimentally affecting other people's lives is the way forward ? Black hearted, whinging spoilt children.

Selfish dick?

[Thait Spot]

What next.... protests about the fall in the price of gold?

The issue is that when you buck the rice market, every other market wants to be treated the same. They will view it as only fair.

Gold? There are mines in Thailand - Loei for example. They also grow quite a lot of rubber there.

There have been protests about the cost of oil and gas products too!!!

With the government hopeful that it can borrow T2.2B, the last thing it will do is to bend to other farming interests as the dreaded Moody's is watching in the wings.

[Nickymaster]

This is another typical misinformed and selfish dick talking.

Farmers growing foodstuffs, usually at a loss, or no profit should be subsidised, otherwise no-one eats. You can't live on chewing gum. I grow rice myself, and I've cut back production so we have enough organic rice to eat all Year, because to try and make a profit on larger scale production is futile, and next to impossible. Believe me, if you spend 100,000 baht on growing rice, you will end up selling it all for 100,000 baht, (as long as you don't fall victim to weather and disease), and have no compensation for your labour.

I long for the day when Thai's wake up and realise there's a bigger picture outside of the uneducated bubble they have been forced / encouraged to live in. Ironically enough, these Southern districts are and always have been staunch Democrat supporters, and possibly why Thaksin and his long term vengeance plan encouraged much of Issan to plant rubber all those Years ago, when he could. It doesn't take a genius to know if you flood the market with a certain commodity, it's going to lose it's value. I would be surprised if his mates would plant anything other than the commodities that are guaranteed to rise (ie, anything apart from rubber), because once you invest in rubber, and plant, you can only use the land to co-plant other consumables for around 3-4 Years tops on the same land.

It would possibly be worth more if you could eat the stuff, or make fuel out of it - food prices are being pushed up by the fact that the poorer demographics - the sheeple have, or are all still planting rubber, tricked into seeing huge easy profits before anything, and consequently easily tied into subsidised / debt laden tree investment programs controlling their future livelyhoods and choices. Over the next Years there will be an exponential increase in the amount being tapped, whilst their lands are tied up completely and enslaved, so they can all kiss goodbye the thought of an easy buck, aswell as being able to put cheap food on the table.

Rubber doesn't need so much looking after - certainly not as much as foodstuffs. Last Year, prices were up to nearly 100 baht per kilo for 'key yang', and much more for sheets of the stuff - which means the common man saw the long established tappers everywhere making fortunes - as a consequence, this Year, much of my area is now new rubber plantations - destined for nothing.

I believe the government is already sat on a massive stockpile of the stuff, and have been buying it in well above the market rates, so where's the possible resolve ? Are they trying to ruin the Country completely, while they still have the chance ? The South is full of wealth, and I doubt you would meet a well established poor rubber farmer down there. Many of them sit on their <deleted>, and let someone else look after and tap the trees for them for a percentage, so what's driving these people, other than downright short term greed ?

What good is closing down the Country's highways possibly going to do, or do they think building up resentment and detrimentally affecting other people's lives is the way forward ? Black hearted, whinging spoilt children.

What a selfish post Mr. double standard. You only care about the road blocks.

If you would be a rubber farmer you would talk different. Especially if you see your fellow farmers receive huge amounts of money (when sitting on their arse) for their rice.

[tingtongteesood]

Planning to 'close down the country', sounds like Red Shirt tactics then. Does this mean the 'reds' are rebelling against their own government ? One can only hope so...

[Ackybang]

This is another typical misinformed and selfish dick talking.

Farmers growing foodstuffs, usually at a loss, or no profit should be subsidised, otherwise no-one eats. You can't live on chewing gum. I grow rice myself, and I've cut back production so we have enough organic rice to eat all Year, because to try and make a profit on larger scale production is futile, and next to impossible. Believe me, if you spend 100,000 baht on growing rice, you will end up selling it all for 100,000 baht, (as long as you don't fall victim to weather and disease), and have no compensation for your labour.

I long for the day when Thai's wake up and realise there's a bigger picture outside of the uneducated bubble they have been forced / encouraged to live in. Ironically enough, these Southern districts are and always have been staunch Democrat supporters, and possibly why Thaksin and his long term vengeance plan encouraged much of Issan to plant rubber all those Years ago, when he could. It doesn't take a genius to know if you flood the market with a certain commodity, it's going to lose it's value. I would be surprised if his mates would plant anything other than the commodities that are guaranteed to rise (ie, anything apart from rubber), because once you invest in rubber, and plant, you can only use the land to co-plant other consumables for around 3-4 Years tops on the same land.

It would possibly be worth more if you could eat the stuff, or make fuel out of it - food prices are being pushed up by the fact that the poorer demographics - the sheeple have, or are all still planting rubber, tricked into seeing huge easy profits before anything, and consequently easily tied into subsidised / debt laden tree investment programs controlling their future livelyhoods and choices. Over the next Years there will be an exponential increase in the amount being tapped, whilst their lands are tied up completely and enslaved, so they can all kiss goodbye the thought of an easy buck, aswell as being able to put cheap food on the table.

Rubber doesn't need so much looking after - certainly not as much as foodstuffs. Last Year, prices were up to nearly 100 baht per kilo for 'key yang', and much more for sheets of the stuff - which means the common man saw the long established tappers everywhere making fortunes - as a consequence, this Year, much of my area is now new rubber plantations - destined for nothing.

I believe the government is already sat on a massive stockpile of the stuff, and have been buying it in well above the market rates, so where's the possible resolve ? Are they trying to ruin the Country completely, while they still have the chance ? The South is full of wealth, and I doubt you would meet a well established poor rubber farmer down there. Many of them sit on their <deleted>, and let someone else look after and tap the trees for them for a percentage, so what's driving these people, other than downright short term greed ?

What good is closing down the Country's highways possibly going to do, or do they think building up resentment and detrimentally affecting other people's lives is the way forward ? Black hearted, whinging spoilt children.

What a selfish post Mr. double standard. You only care about the road blocks.

If you would be a rubber farmer you would talk different. Especially if you see your fellow farmers receive huge amounts of money (when sitting on their arse) for their rice.

What a pointless post, Mr. Haven't got a clue.

If you would care to take a lesson in comprehension, and read my post again, you would quite clearly see what I do and don't care about in this context - quite a few more issues than road blocks.

Tell me, are you a farmer ? How many kilos of rubber can you tap from 14 rai of 7 Year old trees in a week - don't google it, tell me straight - I'll take a rough figure..

As far as rice goes, hom mali you harvest once a Year, and I am telling you straight, as someone with experience, - you cannot make a profit out of it. Simple.

Perhaps you know something I don't - I'm quite willing to stand corrected and apologise...

I am a hobby farmer, (around 30 rai) but I had the insight to diversify, and you have to take it as it comes - that's the game. What about yourself ?

Ever heard the expression 'never put all your eggs in one basket ?' Believe me, rice farmers aren't making fortunes - most of them are in perpetual debt, or drawing even if they're lucky, and I know many farmers, farming many different crops - I live in an issan farming community half the Year, and live right near Surat for the other half, and have done so for many Years. I know farmers in the South and the North - I know the people, and how they behave, what they grow, how furtile their lands are, and how much they're worth on average.

I can tell you now, quite straight - even with rubber prices as they are, and subsidised rice prices as they are - rubber farmers are still making more per rai than a rice farmer over the Year, I know loads here working side by side. In general - richer lands and people in the South.

Instead of picking other peoples posts apart, you might want to arm yourself with some knowledge and experience before blowing it out of your hole.

By all means, get back to me when you have something real to say, or want to write a contributive post, honed from real experience, pertaining to the topic at hand - I'm all eyes.

[Bosse137]

As a farmer myself,(well,my gf..)I second Ackybang.He has it comletely right!