Syria's Assad says Western strike could trigger regional war

[Credo]

This analysis may be of interest to some:

Putin a hypocrite with blood on his hands

By Frida Ghitis, Special to CNN

September 12, 2013 -- Updated 1742 GMT (0142 HKT)

Amanpour weighs in on Putin open letter

• (CNN) -- There he goes again -- Russian President Vladimir Putin, portraying himself as the world's champion of peace and democracy. And, of course, doing it at America's expense.

This time, Putin's PR machine managed to get him an op-ed in The New York Times, just in time for the start of talks in Geneva, Switzerland, over a plan to dismantle Syria's chemical weapons arsenal. The column is so filled with hypocrisy, inaccuracies and even veiled threats that it's hard to know where to begin.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/12/opinion/ghitis-putin-hypocrisy/index.html?hpt=ieu_r1

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted.

[metisdead]

Nonsense trolling posts containing derogatory slurs have been removed as well as the replies.

[pkspeaker]

I wanna address Publicus and some others have repeatedly called Bashir Assad a 'murderer, cruel, tyrant, he kills children, etc.'

Bashir Assad was not supposed to be president, his brother was, when his brother died in a car accident, he was thrust into the position, he never wanted this, he studied in Britain to be a dentist, the people he worked and studied with all described him as very pleasant and well mannered. Putin has also been called a '*&^(*' because he fought a war against islamic terrorists in chechnia!

The fact is every leader in the ME that fights a war is called a '&^*($%' because war crimes happen.

The type of war Assad is fighting is that in which militants take over densely builtup populated areas..concrete jungles, they then attempt to lure a conventional army into this jungle so they can ambush it, they know the conventional army will kill 10,000s of civilians a week if they simply annihilate the area with massive shelling and bombing of these areas. So the Army uses a combination of selective targeted shelling and bombing and smaller engagements against the guerrilla force, the Army tries to grind it out over a longer period of time, the end result being a devastated urban area but a slower body count and it gives most of the civilian population a chance to flee. This is precisely the type of war that the US fought in Iraq, against pretty much the same people.

What happened in Iraq, well it wasn't the USMs policy to commit war crimes, but there were some war crimes, we saw them on the news, we saw videos, there were some trials.. This doesn't mean that GWB is a child killing tyrant murderer whatever but he was certainly called that. The death toll in the Iraq war was in the 100,000s, many killed by the USM and many killed by terrorists and thousands of dead americans for a country that has now aligned itself with Syria and Iran-america's next targets and the democracy that was supposed to happen there well so much for that.

People are gonna say 'well the Syrian's commit more war crimes' well maybe but you really don't know, the death toll is 110,000 after 3 years of fighting,out of 25 million, its about what you would expect in a war like that, IT IS NOT genocide, it's just a civil war. Also consider that Syrian weapons are not as precise as American weapons and their military is not as well trained (especially in guerilla warfare) and that they make a very small amount of money for their very difficult mission in which they can be blown away at any moment.

The death toll in Syria is about 110,000; the chemical attack that Obama tried to use as an excuse most likely killed less than 200 people, French intelligence put it at 200, Doctors Without Borders put it in the 100+ range, the video and pictures we saw of the incident do not show anything near 1400 bodies. The 1400 number is a lie, it was only the whitehouse that released such an exaggerated number.

The Syrian government has tanks, artillery, planes..if they wanna kill 1400 civilians they do not need poison gas. They have no motive to use chems (as many on this thread already noted) they have a motive to NOT use them as they know the US is just looking for that excuse to attack. The rebels want the US involved in the war and the Obama Admin. wants any excuse to get involved against the wishes of the vast majority of the american people. They had/have the motive. When a crime takes place, how often is the perpetrator someone that had no motive? First thing the cops do is ask, "Who had the motive?" Woman's husband is found dead, he had a life insurance policy, she was having an affair, they were fighting..she has the motive, not the mistress.

Publics kept saying "I do not believe Assad/Putin" Well I DO believe Assad on this issue, and I think Obama is a liar. This is the same Gulf of Tonkin, Iraqi WMD crap we have seen before.. The US govt lies, it knows it's lying and it uses lies to start illegal wars under false pretenses-thats the history.

The Syrian Air Force-which has faced almost no defections since the war started, is comprised of many Sunnis. SO if your thinking this is just an alawite minority regime dominating the sunni masses and it will crumble as soon as a few tomahawks zoom in; that's dead wrong. Destroying the SAF will not help the rebels win, it will cause more civilian casualties because the the Syrian Army will depend more on artillery-which is less precise. And Assad has significant Sunni support.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/01/syria-sunnis-assad/2599927/

If there is an american/nato/israeli attack, he will receive more support, the Baathist government represents secularism and independence, the rebels are sell-outs to foreign agendas and represent sectarianism.

[FDog]

I wanna address Publicus and some others have repeatedly called Bashir Assad a 'murderer, cruel, tyrant, he kills children, etc.'

Bashir Assad was not supposed to be president, his brother was, when his brother died in a car accident, he was thrust into the position, he never wanted this, he studied in Britain to be a dentist, the people he worked and studied with all described him as very pleasant and well mannered. Putin has also been called a '*&^(*' because he fought a war against islamic terrorists in chechnia!

The fact is every leader in the ME that fights a war is called a '&^*($%' because war crimes happen.

The type of war Assad is fighting is that in which militants take over densely builtup populated areas..concrete jungles, they then attempt to lure a conventional army into this jungle so they can ambush it, they know the conventional army will kill 10,000s of civilians a week if they simply annihilate the area with massive shelling and bombing of these areas. So the Army uses a combination of selective targeted shelling and bombing and smaller engagements against the guerrilla force, the Army tries to grind it out over a longer period of time, the end result being a devastated urban area but a slower body count and it gives most of the civilian population a chance to flee. This is precisely the type of war that the US fought in Iraq, against pretty much the same people.

What happened in Iraq, well it wasn't the USMs policy to commit war crimes, but there were some war crimes, we saw them on the news, we saw videos, there were some trials.. This doesn't mean that GWB is a child killing tyrant murderer whatever but he was certainly called that. The death toll in the Iraq war was in the 100,000s, many killed by the USM and many killed by terrorists and thousands of dead americans for a country that has now aligned itself with Syria and Iran-america's next targets and the democracy that was supposed to happen there well so much for that.

People are gonna say 'well the Syrian's commit more war crimes' well maybe but you really don't know, the death toll is 110,000 after 3 years of fighting,out of 25 million, its about what you would expect in a war like that, IT IS NOT genocide, it's just a civil war. Also consider that Syrian weapons are not as precise as American weapons and their military is not as well trained (especially in guerilla warfare) and that they make a very small amount of money for their very difficult mission in which they can be blown away at any moment.

The death toll in Syria is about 110,000; the chemical attack that Obama tried to use as an excuse most likely killed less than 200 people, French intelligence put it at 200, Doctors Without Borders put it in the 100+ range, the video and pictures we saw of the incident do not show anything near 1400 bodies. The 1400 number is a lie, it was only the whitehouse that released such an exaggerated number.

The Syrian government has tanks, artillery, planes..if they wanna kill 1400 civilians they do not need poison gas. They have no motive to use chems (as many on this thread already noted) they have a motive to NOT use them as they know the US is just looking for that excuse to attack. The rebels want the US involved in the war and the Obama Admin. wants any excuse to get involved against the wishes of the vast majority of the american people. They had/have the motive. When a crime takes place, how often is the perpetrator someone that had no motive? First thing the cops do is ask, "Who had the motive?" Woman's husband is found dead, he had a life insurance policy, she was having an affair, they were fighting..she has the motive, not the mistress.

Publics kept saying "I do not believe Assad/Putin" Well I DO believe Assad on this issue, and I think Obama is a liar. This is the same Gulf of Tonkin, Iraqi WMD crap we have seen before.. The US govt lies, it knows it's lying and it uses lies to start illegal wars under false pretenses-thats the history.

The Syrian Air Force-which has faced almost no defections since the war started, is comprised of many Sunnis. SO if your thinking this is just an alawite minority regime dominating the sunni masses and it will crumble as soon as a few tomahawks zoom in; that's dead wrong. Destroying the SAF will not help the rebels win, it will cause more civilian casualties because the the Syrian Army will depend more on artillery-which is less precise. And Assad has significant Sunni support.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/01/syria-sunnis-assad/2599927/

If there is an american/nato/israeli attack, he will receive more support, the Baathist government represents secularism and independence, the rebels are sell-outs to foreign agendas and represent sectarianism.

Well said, all normal thinking people agree, it is really only those with severe prejudices against Russia that disagree. Some here don't care about Assad, the simple fact that Putin is in the mix is enough to get them salivating.

But please don't mention Obama, can't be doing that here.

[Scott]

You can mention anybody you want provided it's on topic. I also note that the rather well written post by pkspeaker does mention Obama, but it is done in the context of Syria and what is happening there. I also note that he managed to work Iraq into the post and again, it was used as an example about what is happening in Syria.

I note that some of the discussion of Putin is getting a little far from the topic of Syria, by the way.

[pkspeaker]

tx, btw just another day in the Syrian civil war..

http://news.yahoo.com/syria-fighting-rages-despite-major-muslim-holiday-102405042.html

lets see what publicus's good guys are up to today..

In Tuesday's fighting, rebels fired mortar rounds and homemade rockets at three Damascus neighborhoods, said the Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, which gathers information from activists. Rebels routinely fire mortar shells at government-held areas of the Syrian capital.

Nice, we can see that it's only Assad that bombs civilians.

In the village of Yabroud, several dozen miles north of the capital, assailants detonated explosives on the roofs of Our Lady's Church and the Church of Helena and Constantine, SANA reported.The explosions damaged the crosses, SANA said. It said attempts to detonate more bombs outside the two churches were foiled.The Observatory confirmed that several explosions went off, damaging the churches.

Oh this is wonderful, it's nice to see the rebels are busy fighting for democracy with american taxdollars.

[SinglePot]

From the same article posted above by pkspeaker:

Osama al-Madi, a refugee from the southern city of Daraa, said he opposes transition talks with the regime, as proposed by the U.S.

"In each tent here, you will find people who have lost a martyr or have people in prisons, we have missing people in Assad's prisons," he said. "How can we negotiate with a killer regime?"

[SinglePot]

From earlier post by pkspeaker:

Quote

"The US govt lies, it knows it's lying and it uses lies to start illegal wars under false pretenses-thats the history."

Blanket statement of this scale requires corroboration.

Please provide re Syria Assad conflict.

[pkspeaker]

Yea and is that the same alqueda scumbag that says this:

""They continue to be loyal to the regime so that they're rewarded with positions if it survives – if the regime falls, they think they'll just leave Syria," says Um Raghad, an anti-Assad activist in the west-central Syrian city of Hama. "What they don't know is that we're going to go after them wherever they go."

Now that's what I call a TERRORIST, even if these extemists win the war, that's not good enough, they will continue to export violence to 'the infidels' where evr they go, like in europe or whereever.. sure the syrian governments tactics are brutal, but this is the kind of people they are dealing with

[SinglePot]

Assad's dentistry skills might come in useful.

I'm still waiting for corroboration.

#999

[simple1]

I wanna address Publicus and some others have repeatedly called Bashir Assad a 'murderer, cruel, tyrant, he kills children, etc.'

Bashir Assad was not supposed to be president, his brother was, when his brother died in a car accident, he was thrust into the position, he never wanted this, he studied in Britain to be a dentist, the people he worked and studied with all described him as very pleasant and well mannered. Putin has also been called a '*&^(*' because he fought a war against islamic terrorists in chechnia!

The fact is every leader in the ME that fights a war is called a '&^*($%' because war crimes happen.

The type of war Assad is fighting is that in which militants take over densely builtup populated areas..concrete jungles, they then attempt to lure a conventional army into this jungle so they can ambush it, they know the conventional army will kill 10,000s of civilians a week if they simply annihilate the area with massive shelling and bombing of these areas. So the Army uses a combination of selective targeted shelling and bombing and smaller engagements against the guerrilla force, the Army tries to grind it out over a longer period of time, the end result being a devastated urban area but a slower body count and it gives most of the civilian population a chance to flee. This is precisely the type of war that the US fought in Iraq, against pretty much the same people.

What happened in Iraq, well it wasn't the USMs policy to commit war crimes, but there were some war crimes, we saw them on the news, we saw videos, there were some trials.. This doesn't mean that GWB is a child killing tyrant murderer whatever but he was certainly called that. The death toll in the Iraq war was in the 100,000s, many killed by the USM and many killed by terrorists and thousands of dead americans for a country that has now aligned itself with Syria and Iran-america's next targets and the democracy that was supposed to happen there well so much for that.

People are gonna say 'well the Syrian's commit more war crimes' well maybe but you really don't know, the death toll is 110,000 after 3 years of fighting,out of 25 million, its about what you would expect in a war like that, IT IS NOT genocide, it's just a civil war. Also consider that Syrian weapons are not as precise as American weapons and their military is not as well trained (especially in guerilla warfare) and that they make a very small amount of money for their very difficult mission in which they can be blown away at any moment.

The death toll in Syria is about 110,000; the chemical attack that Obama tried to use as an excuse most likely killed less than 200 people, French intelligence put it at 200, Doctors Without Borders put it in the 100+ range, the video and pictures we saw of the incident do not show anything near 1400 bodies. The 1400 number is a lie, it was only the whitehouse that released such an exaggerated number.

The Syrian government has tanks, artillery, planes..if they wanna kill 1400 civilians they do not need poison gas. They have no motive to use chems (as many on this thread already noted) they have a motive to NOT use them as they know the US is just looking for that excuse to attack. The rebels want the US involved in the war and the Obama Admin. wants any excuse to get involved against the wishes of the vast majority of the american people. They had/have the motive. When a crime takes place, how often is the perpetrator someone that had no motive? First thing the cops do is ask, "Who had the motive?" Woman's husband is found dead, he had a life insurance policy, she was having an affair, they were fighting..she has the motive, not the mistress.

Publics kept saying "I do not believe Assad/Putin" Well I DO believe Assad on this issue, and I think Obama is a liar. This is the same Gulf of Tonkin, Iraqi WMD crap we have seen before.. The US govt lies, it knows it's lying and it uses lies to start illegal wars under false pretenses-thats the history.

The Syrian Air Force-which has faced almost no defections since the war started, is comprised of many Sunnis. SO if your thinking this is just an alawite minority regime dominating the sunni masses and it will crumble as soon as a few tomahawks zoom in; that's dead wrong. Destroying the SAF will not help the rebels win, it will cause more civilian casualties because the the Syrian Army will depend more on artillery-which is less precise. And Assad has significant Sunni support.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/01/syria-sunnis-assad/2599927/

If there is an american/nato/israeli attack, he will receive more support, the Baathist government represents secularism and independence, the rebels are sell-outs to foreign agendas and represent sectarianism.

I am shocked by your post. You're living in la la land if you propose that the Assad government represents good governance by way of secularism and independence. The Assad Baathist government represents a repressive dictatorship over many years by the Alawite minority, in conjunction with Syrian Christian support and a few other minorities. Assad's brother was the leader of the Assad regime militias that were and are one of the leading organisations for corruption, repression & killing of regime opponents, including civilians. Are you really trying to say Assad had no idea what his brother and other regime members were doing whilst he was overseas? Totally defies logic with easy access to unrestricted public domain information. Perhaps you are realing saying that realpolitik is the most appropriate view of the conflict?

There was a small glimmer of more inclusive society during the Syrian Arab Spring peaceful demonstrations; but assad endevoured to crush the movement by use of extreme violence. This action by Assad led to many defections from the Syrian military and the formatiion of the Free Syrian Army. In my opinion the West made a serious mistake by not supporting the FSA in the first year; thus provided the opportunity for the extremists to enter and dominate the anti regeme fighting

The Syrian Airforce may well have Sunni pilots, but please tell me what would happen to their families and friends if they defected. Syrian Airforce intelligence has been identified as one of the most vicious users of torture and killing of regime opponents.

There has been a lot of evidence presented to confirm the use of chemical weapons in the Damascus suburbs by the regime and yet you're still denying, that is your choice, but a very detailed contradictory analysis at:

http://www.openbriefing.org/regionaldesks/middleeast/syria-chemical-weapons-attack-what-happens-next/?utm_source=The+Weekly+Briefing&utm_campaign=c482bf8970-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_7cdaf4e67c-c482bf8970-312262113

Prior to the current rebellion the Assad regime was notorious over many years for the torture & killing of political opponents & their families, including children, yet you are endeavouring to defend the regime? As far as I am aware under Assad, with all his Western education, the regime never lifted a finger to stop these practices.

Looks like the West has no intention of providing sufficient support to the moderate FSA fighters and the regime maybe will win the battle The more significant proxy war still looms between the Sunni and Shiite dictatorships.

[SinglePot]

That's what I call a well written post.

[Publicus]

I wanna address Publicus and some others have repeatedly called Bashir Assad a 'murderer, cruel, tyrant, he kills children, etc.'

Bashir Assad was not supposed to be president, his brother was, when his brother died in a car accident, he was thrust into the position, he never wanted this, he studied in Britain to be a dentist, the people he worked and studied with all described him as very pleasant and well mannered. Putin has also been called a '*&^(*' because he fought a war against islamic terrorists in chechnia!

The fact is every leader in the ME that fights a war is called a '&^*($%' because war crimes happen.

The type of war Assad is fighting is that in which militants take over densely builtup populated areas..concrete jungles, they then attempt to lure a conventional army into this jungle so they can ambush it, they know the conventional army will kill 10,000s of civilians a week if they simply annihilate the area with massive shelling and bombing of these areas. So the Army uses a combination of selective targeted shelling and bombing and smaller engagements against the guerrilla force, the Army tries to grind it out over a longer period of time, the end result being a devastated urban area but a slower body count and it gives most of the civilian population a chance to flee. This is precisely the type of war that the US fought in Iraq, against pretty much the same people.

What happened in Iraq, well it wasn't the USMs policy to commit war crimes, but there were some war crimes, we saw them on the news, we saw videos, there were some trials.. This doesn't mean that GWB is a child killing tyrant murderer whatever but he was certainly called that. The death toll in the Iraq war was in the 100,000s, many killed by the USM and many killed by terrorists and thousands of dead americans for a country that has now aligned itself with Syria and Iran-america's next targets and the democracy that was supposed to happen there well so much for that.

People are gonna say 'well the Syrian's commit more war crimes' well maybe but you really don't know, the death toll is 110,000 after 3 years of fighting,out of 25 million, its about what you would expect in a war like that, IT IS NOT genocide, it's just a civil war. Also consider that Syrian weapons are not as precise as American weapons and their military is not as well trained (especially in guerilla warfare) and that they make a very small amount of money for their very difficult mission in which they can be blown away at any moment.

The death toll in Syria is about 110,000; the chemical attack that Obama tried to use as an excuse most likely killed less than 200 people, French intelligence put it at 200, Doctors Without Borders put it in the 100+ range, the video and pictures we saw of the incident do not show anything near 1400 bodies. The 1400 number is a lie, it was only the whitehouse that released such an exaggerated number.

The Syrian government has tanks, artillery, planes..if they wanna kill 1400 civilians they do not need poison gas. They have no motive to use chems (as many on this thread already noted) they have a motive to NOT use them as they know the US is just looking for that excuse to attack. The rebels want the US involved in the war and the Obama Admin. wants any excuse to get involved against the wishes of the vast majority of the american people. They had/have the motive. When a crime takes place, how often is the perpetrator someone that had no motive? First thing the cops do is ask, "Who had the motive?" Woman's husband is found dead, he had a life insurance policy, she was having an affair, they were fighting..she has the motive, not the mistress.

Publics kept saying "I do not believe Assad/Putin" Well I DO believe Assad on this issue, and I think Obama is a liar. This is the same Gulf of Tonkin, Iraqi WMD crap we have seen before.. The US govt lies, it knows it's lying and it uses lies to start illegal wars under false pretenses-thats the history.

The Syrian Air Force-which has faced almost no defections since the war started, is comprised of many Sunnis. SO if your thinking this is just an alawite minority regime dominating the sunni masses and it will crumble as soon as a few tomahawks zoom in; that's dead wrong. Destroying the SAF will not help the rebels win, it will cause more civilian casualties because the the Syrian Army will depend more on artillery-which is less precise. And Assad has significant Sunni support.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/01/syria-sunnis-assad/2599927/

If there is an american/nato/israeli attack, he will receive more support, the Baathist government represents secularism and independence, the rebels are sell-outs to foreign agendas and represent sectarianism.

Bush and the neocons in the government at the time are wholly discredited in the United States and never again will they be in positions to make and determine US policy in anything.

For all that Bush did wrong concerning Iraq, he never deliberately and willfully targeted schools to kill the children of his opponents to say to the opponents that if you fight against me, I specifically will kill or maim your children. Bashir al-Assad and his Air Force and regime do this as a matter of policy and common practice.

You proudly pronounce you believe Assad and Putin. That's your choice. I'm afraid to ask who else of the world you may believe.

Assad is an ophthalmologist, not a dentist. And he's a mass murderer who uses chemical weapons of mass destruction, not a leader chosen by his people. Assad is a Middle East tyrant, and a particularly harsh and brutal one.

Putin advised Assad to use heavy artillery instead of chemical weapons, the way Putin did to level Grozny in Chechnya, and the way Putin used heavy artillery on the roads to slaughter those escaping the heavy bombardment of Grozny.

Assad did use heavy artillery but decided it didn't scare or decimate his rebels the way Putin was able to do ruthlessly in Chechnya. Hence Assad's resorting to chemical warfare. Do you really think Assad, the Middle East dictator and autocrat, is above the use of chemical weapons? If you do believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you cheap, special today for you only.

Whatever the cause of the civil war in Syria, Assad has lost all moral and legitimate authority to govern. It is impossible for Assad peacefully to reunite or govern Syria, now or at any time in the future.

If Assad didn't use chemical weapons, then why has he agreed to surrender them? The United States is not going to invade Syria. Your logic reasoning and common sense are completely flawed and self-embarrassing. You need to know you look silly standing there with your foot in your mouth.

[pkspeaker]

The constant use of buzzwords.. ie: repressive dictator, tyrant, brutal etc.. and then pointing to incidents in which 'children are murdered'

ok got it..

There were incidents in Iraq in which children were killed in schools by American shells (falluja and Ramadi), this happened in urban combat zones, there were incidents where American snipers put towns under curfew and then shot unarmed civilians when they went outside. There were incidents when US marines massacred civilians in Haditha:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/military/story/2012-01-24/marine-haditha-iraq/52778126/1

and didn't do any jail time for it. There was the video released on 'collateral murder' (leaked by Private Manning who went to jail) that showed civilians being murdered and the perpetrators served no jail time, only the leaker went ot jail..

Make no mistakes about it, these are only some of the illegal killing incidents that took place, these are the guys that got caught.. When we catch our military personell doing this stuff we say:

"well, their under alot of stress, the insurgents are bad people who mix in with the civilian population, and most of our guys are good but there are a few bad apples, and this is 'collateral damage'"

When these incidents happen we don't say Obama and Bush are child killers, When Assad is fighting alqueda and these incidents happen we say he is a child murderer.

The amature video's I have seen, shot by rebel activists, clearly show the Syrian Airforce engaging in targeted airstrikes, you can see helicopters hovering-they are searching for targets, when they see a suspected hideout, they radio to the fighter plane which comes in very quickly and delivers an airstrike, when they are wrong, you have collateral damage. Again, the SAF is not as sophisticated and accurate as the USAF.. There is no evidence that Assas has ordered intentional collateral damage, he is telling his military to fight a guerilla war, and again, this war, after 3 years has killed 110,000 people out of 25 million-that includes govt soldiers killed by rebels, rebels killed by the govt, civilians killed by terrorists, civilians killed by the airforce, everyone-its the total.. THIS IS A WAR, NOT GENOCIDE, its just another civil war.

Assad has heavy artillery, he has jets and helicopters that deliver very powerful bombs, he has multiple rocket launchers.. if he wanted to just kill civilians he could easily kill 20,000 IN JUST 1 DAY, so cut the crap..

and just 1 week prior to that gas attack (which was launched by the rebels), the rebels went from village to village in latakia and murdered 200 civilians, including women and children, Obama, Mccain, and Kerry were not so 'outraged' by that one and it was barely in thenews.. but instead we're gonna be outraged by this rebel gas attack and blame it on Assad because we have an agenda.

This one is funny:

"If Assad didn't use chemical weapons, then why has he agreed to surrender them?"

Um, because he's not using them!? I would think if he was using them he'd wanna keep them talk about a foot in your mouth.

[Publicus]

Yeah, okay, I got it.

The rebels are the bad guys.

Assad and Putin are the good guys.

The United States is always wrong.

Got it.

[Publicus]

*Deleted post edited out*

Look pal, listen and listen well.

Your tone, attitude, voice in your posts are absolute, cynical, sarcastic, hard-edged.

Your views are irreversibly anti-American.

I know what I can accomplish or can't accomplish. You are someone who will argue without budging until the cows come home.

Consequently, you don't have my attention and you can't have my attention. I haven't time or interest in dealing with you because it's impossible to engage you in conversation or discussion. You rail constantly.

You came late to this thread. I haven't participated in this thread since the United States got out of the picture. You came to the thread mentioning me specifically by name. So I gave you your response. That's all you're going to get from me because you and I can argue endlessly without purpose or result.

So now I'm going to continue on about my way.

Good day.

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use has been deleted.

This topic is beginning to stray off-topic.

[pkspeaker]

Fair Use? <deleted> is fair use? It was a link that calls in to question the level of brutality of the assad regime, that's not off topic.

[Scott]

Fair use allows for the use of the headline and 3 sentences from the article and then a link to the remainder of the article. Copying large amounts of text could be considered a violation of copyright.

The thread is about Assad's assertion that a Western Strike could ignite a larger war. The current discussion is off-topic. Western military strikes are not currently on the table. Assad is complying with the conditions concerning chemical weapons.

[pkspeaker]

OK sorrybout that, i don't like being censored so let me post this in a legal way w/o the sarcasm:

First of all, people who are against American wars are not 'anti-american' I don't think Private Manning is anti-american. AMerica can brag that it has people who expose these things. He felt that in America, we don't hide things like that and the taxpayers had a right to know.

We're being led to beleive by the Obama administration and various American politicians and publications like The Wall Street Journal; that the Assad regime is so brutal, that if you even say something bad about it, in private..the secret police are going to come and rip your intestines out-this 'brutality of the dictator' is a major reason we should get involved and this type of argument has alot of traction, it sways people to accept military intervention.

This link:

http://www.worldcrunch.com/source-partner/world-affairs/along-the-sunni-divide-in-war-torn-syria/hezbollah-sunni-activists-bashar-al-assad-homs-/c1s12501/#.Ul5spdJkOMB

This guy is running a rebel media operation out of his house, someone ratted on him to the Syrian government, so what did they do, they didn't assassinate him, they didn't kill his entire family, they didn't jail him, they didn't torture him, They cut his benefits! Then he says he's gonna kill the guy that squealed on him. when obama says this regime is so brutal, we have to question that, we need specifics, not just 'he's a murderer'

What kind of a brutal dictator cuts your benefits when your trying to overthrow the government!? Assads gotta be the worst brutal dictator ever.

[SinglePot]

Assad's dentistry skills might come in useful.

I'm still waiting for corroboration.

#999

Sorry. Correction to this post:

'ophthalmology' should replace dentistry

SP

[F430murci]

We're being led to beleive by the Obama administration and various American politicians and publications like The Wall Street Journal; that the Assad regime is so brutal, that if you even say something bad about it, in private..the secret police are going to come and rip your intestines out-this 'brutality of the dictator' is a major reason we should get involved and this type of argument has alot of traction, it sways people to accept military intervention.

This is actually coming from the UN human rights commission assigned to investigate war crimes and atrocities. US is simply reporting what investigators have discovered. You can stick your head in the sand or other places it may already be, but to defend Assad or imply it ain't that bad is . . .

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"One of the most insidious aspects of the Syrian conflict has been the disappearance of thousands of people from their homes, at checkpoints and from the streets," Pinheiro told the 193-member body.”

Source: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4411398,00.html

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"Torture, as documented in our reports, continues to be committed on a widespread and systematic basis, most frequently inside the detention centers of government intelligence agencies," Pinheiro said.

Source: http://www.yalibnan.com/2013/07/30/un-thousands-abducted-in-syria-war/

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"I have never before seen torture methods like the ones I'm seeing in Syria, not even in the Balkans conflict," she [Del Ponte] said.

Source: http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=61232

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"Civilians are the real victims of this prolonged war," Pinheiro said. "Crimes that shock the conscience have become a dreadful daily reality in Syria."

Source: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/un-rights-expert-says-syria-free-fall

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"Massacres and other unlawful killings are perpetrated with impunity," Pinheiro said. "Most have been perpetrated by pro-government forces.

Source: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/07/29/un-rights-expert-says-syria-is-in-free-fall-and-civilians-are-main-victims-acts/

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The head of the U.N. commission investigating human rights abuses in Syria warned Monday that the country is in "free fall" and has become a battlefield where civilians are the main victims of acts of terror, from indiscriminate shelling to rape and sectarian killing.

Source: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/un-rights-expert-says-syria-free-fall

[Maestro]

I'd like to thank the members who ferret out interesting information to post in this topic but would like to remind them to give links to the sources, please.

[Scott]

There is way too much off-topic trolling.

//Closed//

[Scott]

Per a request by a poster, this thread will be reopened. Please stay on the topic and keep the discussion civil.

[Chicog]

Not sure if the Hama bombing and this news are related, but it's something vaguely positive:

An international conference aimed at ending Syria's civil war will be held in Geneva in late November, the head of the Arab League, Nabil Elaraby, has said, after weeks of diplomacy to bring the opposing sides to the negotiating table.

Elaraby said the Geneva conference, which the US and Russia have been trying to convene for several months, would be held on 23-24 November.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/syria-conference-announced-suicide-bomb

One interesting comment though:

The Geneva talks have been put off repeatedly for months, in part because of fundamental disagreements over the fate of President Bashar al-Assad.

I wonder what's changed?

[simple1]

Not sure if the Hama bombing and this news are related, but it's something vaguely positive:

An international conference aimed at ending Syria's civil war will be held in Geneva in late November, the head of the Arab League, Nabil Elaraby, has said, after weeks of diplomacy to bring the opposing sides to the negotiating table.

Elaraby said the Geneva conference, which the US and Russia have been trying to convene for several months, would be held on 23-24 November.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/syria-conference-announced-suicide-bomb

One interesting comment though:

The Geneva talks have been put off repeatedly for months, in part because of fundamental disagreements over the fate of President Bashar al-Assad.

I wonder what's changed?

The Geneva conference for end November is not a certainty as the opposition coalition may refuse to attend if the removal of Assad is not on the agenda. Also the regime has refused to negotiate with the armed opposition. Assad is currently comitted to stay in power at least until the end of his term in mid-2014, and he will decide then whether to seek re-election.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/10/date-set-geneva-peace-talks-syria-2013102092812375316.html

The longer this goes on the greater the risk for fighting to spill over into Lebanon & Jordon; as it has already done so with the significant increase of Sunni extremists in Iraq attacking the Shiia.

[Chicog]

I actually had a light-hearted conversation with a Shi'a colleague about this. I jokingly said the best thing to happen would be if all the Sunni from Iraq moved to Syria, and all the Shi'a and Alawites from Syria moved to Iraq. He laughed at first, thought about it and then said it would be a great idea!

Now if only we could explain it to the politicians....

[Scott]

You might have to figure out some way to move a lot of that oil as well.

Nice idea, if only life were that simple!