Cost of living question

[timtscott]

I realize everyone had different lifestyles so this is a hard question to answer but...

I am 52 years old American man and would like to retire in 3 years.

I am divorced with no children

I have never lived in Thailand but have been there 10 to 12 times

I will have a pension of about $2500 US dollars a month after taxes but no health insurance until I turn 60

I will have about $30,000 in savings and $150,000 in deferred comp I plan to draw on as an annuity when I turn 65. I will not get social security

I have one on going debt of about $200 a month

This leaves then $2300 a month for

Rent (studio or one bed room apartment meets my needs)

I don't drive no desire for a car

Ideally I would live inside the moat or at least somewhere close to shopping, restaurants etc

I am not oppose to Bangkok, CM appears cheaper and I like it so it is my first choice

I will need health insurance (I have no health issues currently)

I am not crazy about Thai food so will be mostly eating American fast good or at home

I am not a big drinker. Would like to go out maybe one evening a week. I realize the cost associated with bar girls. I'm not saying I would never indulge but would limit it and it is not a driving force for me.

I could teach if I needed extra cash but would prefer not to or at least not full time.

So I figure after all is said done I will have between $2,000 to $2200 a month to live on

Is this doable? I could wait a few more years and have a few more hundred dollars a month. But at my age I worry dropping dead at work one day

By the way this has been a long time dream/desire of mine so it is not just some whim

Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

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[shepsel]

$2000 is about 60,000 baht a month, and you could live like a king in Chiang Mai, provided that you don't go on drinking and girl binges every evening. Health Insurance is the difficult part--there are many different policies out there--usually with a deductable. But, on the other hand, medical visits, and treatments are quite inexpensive here compared to the west.

[fearless1]

I am close to your age and have lived here for about 5 years. I live pretty well in an apartment near the moat and my spending is pretty close to your budget. The only real issue I see is your savings. I spend about 2300 dollars a month but my savings are much higher. You don't have a whole lot of slack in case something catastrophic were to happen.

[Marcel1]

30.000 a month. No big savings will be done consider that and your current health status. can be a bad combi when you have no piggy back but get sick. other than that It is a liveble amount.

[A1Str8]

$2000-$2200 is going to be more than enough in Chiang Mai. You are going to live well. Considering that you have no desire for a car, and you are planning to live somewhere in the centre, you are going to save a lot on transportation. Not being a heavy drinker also helps, that is going to save you a lot too. You can find plenty of nice places at around 10k, probably you will need to sign a 6-12 month contract and that way it's going to be even cheaper. However if you plan to eat foreign food most of the time, that's going to cost.

If it has been a long time dream of yours..go ahead and do it. I wish the best.

Futher note: you are going to be tempted to find a lady quickly, but don't make that mistake. Just take it easy, watch them and learn. That's going to save you a lot of hassle..and your savings.

[timtscott]

Thank you both. Fearless1 what amount of savings would you consider sufficient? I suppose I could tighten my belt and get my savings closer to $50,000 US. I can also access my deferred comp in the event of a real disaster.

Again, I could postpone retirement until I was 58 and have increased savings, pension and deferred comp. I would really like to avoid that though as I have more sand at the bottom of the hour glass than at top. Thanks again !!

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[mesquite]

OP, you can do it on your money. If it's your dream to live here, you can make it happen.

The number one risk for someone in your category is being targetted by female predators and their families. Don't give them your money and you'll be fine. Learn from the mistakes of others. Especially watch out for giving away the $30,000 which is unencumbered.

Edited October 25, 2013 by mesquite

[rhodie]

I would go now. You have plenty to live on. Unless you were really worried about your health, you could look at putting aside a sum in case of a medical emergency.

Good luck.

[timtscott]

Thanks all. Just for clarification all the amounts I was quoting is US dollars. But I realize dollars or bahts can get away from you if your not careful. I am rather conservative when it comes to spending. I was married to a Cambodian here in the US, a great lady, but am aware of the costs associated with in laws. :-)

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[mesquite]

Thanks all. Just for clarification all the amounts I was quoting is US dollars. But I realize dollars or bahts can get away from you if your not careful. I am rather conservative when it comes to spending. I was married to a Cambodian here in the US, a great lady, but am aware of the costs associated with in laws. :-)

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It's a slightly different game here. Thai female predators have honed their skills beyond what you will find elsewhere in SE Asia. They're very good.

You'll be fine.

[lopburi3]

Will this age 60 medical insurance cover you in Thailand? Current retirement extension requirement is 65k per month and is based on gross income so that should not be an issue and for a moderate lifestyle you should have adequate funds.

[timtscott]

Lopburi3. No the health coverage I will receive at age 60 will only cover me in the United States. I guess I was thinking if some non emergent health issue would arise I could come home to address it. I would keep insurance in Thailand until it became unaffordable or unattainable and then may have to return to the states. If I could get 10 good years in Thailand I would be happy.

The other thought is I could teach my first few years there just to add to my savings. I like teaching. Do a bit of volunteer ESL teaching here in the states. I would be willing to get a TELF. I have all the other basic requirements (native speaker, degree etc. ) I just don't want to depend on it as a source of income.

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[Baloo22]

$2,000 to $2200 a month to live on in Chiang Mai is definitely doable. I'm living in the NW part of Chiang Mai about 400 meters from the Old City with a little less than that income. Many live here on much less than $2000-$2200 a month.

The fact that you " are not a big drinker. Would like to go out maybe one evening a week. I realize the cost associated with bar girls. I'm not saying I would never indulge but would limit it and it is not a driving force for me." is a definite positive. Many retired persons/expats who cannot stop themselves from staying on the barstool every night find that becoming their biggest money-devouring item.

Your wanting to eat mostly American food will increase your food costs. Some meals will still be fairly inexpensive if they use locally produced foodstuffs. There is a small restaurant just down the street for me that I get my particular breakfast of three eggs, toast, and coffee for two dollars. But anything imported tends to cost a lot more.

Another consideration has nothing to do with money. What kind of things will you do to occupy your time? Many people are used to being busy and having their day occupied with work. Many have difficulty adjusting to a life where they don't have that. You need to have some things that fit you to occupy your time. Plenty of people retire over here, don't do that, and end up on a long downhill slope of bars and the bottle.

I would recommend, if possible for you, to first take a 3-4 month stay in Chiang Mai before making any permanent decisions. There are a number of irritating and frustrating things here that you tend to blow-off during a 2-3 week vacation but may grate on you when you are living here month after month. Make this stay before burning any bridges back home.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Baloo22

[timtscott]

Baloo22 thank you that's a good idea. I will definitely consider a trial period and have a couple of back up locations in mind.

My hobbies tend to be things I can do alone. I love reading, watching movies and documentaries, music, hiking, following my favorite sports teams (go Reds) and doing volunteer work (I realize I may not be allowed to do this on a retirement visa). I would also like to explore SE Asia a bit more. I have visited Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia and The Phils but for only short periods of time. So an occasional trip to nearby country would also interest me.

I am not really to concerned about the drinking issue. I probably have no more than 2 or 3 beers a month at present and never have drunk a lot even in college. I do love women though do I will need to be careful in dealing with the fairer sex.

Thanks again for all of the excellent advice!

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[lopburi3]

Lopburi3. No the health coverage I will receive at age 60 will only cover me in the United States. I guess I was thinking if some non emergent health issue would arise I could come home to address it. I would keep insurance in Thailand until it became unaffordable or unattainable and then may have to return to the states. If I could get 10 good years in Thailand I would be happy.

The other thought is I could teach my first few years there just to add to my savings. I like teaching. Do a bit of volunteer ESL teaching here in the states. I would be willing to get a TELF. I have all the other basic requirements (native speaker, degree etc. ) I just don't want to depend on it as a source of income.

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If you enjoy teaching you may want to just do that for a few years - there is no option for a work permit normally for those on retirement extensions of stay (a real loss for Thailand as many would be willing to teach for little or no compensation). It should also help to keep entertainment expenses down and you adjust to the less busy lifestyle of retirement.

[habfan]

As said…….. booze and women could derail you but if you keep it in moderation you will have a good life in Chiangmai with your financial resources and lifestyle interests.

[Baloo22]

Baloo22 thank you that's a good idea. I will definitely consider a trial period and have a couple of back up locations in mind.

My hobbies tend to be things I can do alone. I love reading, watching movies and documentaries, music, hiking, following my favorite sports teams (go Reds) and doing volunteer work (I realize I may not be allowed to do this on a retirement visa). I would also like to explore SE Asia a bit more. I have visited Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia and The Phils but for only short periods of time. So an occasional trip to nearby country would also interest me.

<snip>

Your welcome!

I also enjoy a lot of reading, movies, documentaries and the like. Learning to use and play with my new toy; a Nook HD+ that I got this summer on my trip back to the US.

You mention that you would like to explore SE Asia more. After moving up here to Chiang Mai I did a bit of travel also. I'm fairly new to Thailand, about two years now, so mostly trips within Thailand. Took trips to Bangkok, Phuket, Kanchanaburi, Chiang Rai, Mae Sai, and also Vientiane, Lao.

I like to get on the web and book air flights with Air Asia or Nok Air. I know many BMs here don't like Air Asia but I've gotten some good "promo fares" and had good experiences with them. You can get some great low fares from AirAsia if you can book far in advance and can be flexible in your travel dates. Don't know if you have used them before.

Up here in northern Thailand, the Green Bus company is a good way to go. They have a good reputation for safe and sane travel, unlike the usual bus and van operations. I've used them round trip Chiang Mai <--> Chiang Rai and Chiang Mai <--> Mae Sai. I found them to be professional and with, IMO, sane and safe drivers.

[andreandre]

You're only 52 yo..and say you have no health issues...but say this;

"But at my age I worry dropping dead at work one day"

I dont get it..what is it that makes you worry about about dropping dead at this young age?

Just curious...

[true blue]

chiang mai has some great varities,you can enjoy chiang mai in a frugal way,or you can enjoy it in a expensive way,as the saying goes here, its up to you.you certinally wont be spoiled for choice,the tv warning about the ladies is a valid one,but hey,all lifes luxury bits cost,but there worth it.

[chuang]

No problem with that amount at the moment since you have no vice....

[timtscott]

Thanks all. I was just joking about dropping dead at work. I have been with the same employer for 25 years. I guess my point is we never know what tomorrow will bring and I would rather start pursuing my dream sooner rather than later.

I am a bit surprised that $30,000 US dollars in savings would be considered insufficient and living at risk.

I read somewhere that most people in the US on average have less than $10,000 socked away. Not that it is something to aspire to but still.

I guess I was thinking what I have in savings and deferred comp would be sufficient.

I actually thought having just $30,000 to $40,000 in savings would be pretty decent for Thailand.

I am interested to know what most on here would be sufficient savings to protect oneself from a catastrophe?

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[timtscott]

Baloo22. I have flown Asia Air once from BKK to Phuket. The fare seemed reasonable.

Haung. lol I do have some vices, mostly women but think I can keep it under control. Not as young as I used to be ;-)

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[fearless1]

Thanks all. I was just joking about dropping dead at work. I have been with the same employer for 25 years. I guess my point is we never know what tomorrow will bring and I would rather start pursuing my dream sooner rather than later.

I am a bit surprised that $30,000 US dollars in savings would be considered insufficient and living at risk.

I read somewhere that most people in the US on average have less than $10,000 socked away. Not that it is something to aspire to but still.

I guess I was thinking what I have in savings and deferred comp would be sufficient.

I actually thought having just $30,000 to $40,000 in savings would be pretty decent for Thailand.

I am interested to know what most on here would be sufficient savings to protect oneself from a catastrophe?

Everybody is different in their comfort level as to what is enough of a cushion in regards to savings. I have 30X in savings what you have and I wouldn't have retired early with much less than that. My situation is different in that I cannot collect on my social security and pension for another 9 years so I have to generate income through my savings until then. I think having money in the bank just gives you a little more peace of mind and gives you a few more options if things don't go according to plan. You don't want to be stuck in Thailand with nothing in your pocket if you need to return to the USA for some reason. 30,000 might be enough but if possible maybe you might want to double that if you can. If you can't, then just go for it.

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[timtscott]

Thanks fearless1 yeah I would not want to be broke in any country including the US but especially SE Asia. I actually should have closer to 50k in savings in 2016 barring some unforeseen disaster.

I may give teaching a go the first year at least. I like teaching, but doing it was a volunteer and doing it as an employee of the school are two different things. I have kinda grown weary of reporting to others bosses, as well

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[morpho]

I am retired and have lived in Chiang Mai for 2+ years and average about 45,000-55,000 ThB (US$1,500-1800) each month. I receive about US$3,700 each month so I use the monthly savings to travel every 2-3 months...just returned from 6 weeks in the Philippines and Cambodia. I live outside the moat near CMU and Wat Umong and prefer it to being inside the moat but personal preferences differ. I suggest looking around first before making a final decision on location. I usually stay home during the week and only go out on the weekends to drink and carouse or watch sports at a sports bar. I think you will be spending more if you only eat Western food (compared to Thai food) when you go out, but of course can save if you cook at home (but then again ingredients for Western food at supermarkets can also be more expensive). Hopefully you can develop a taste for Thai food because it is delicious in Chiang Mai. Also, there are so many places to see within and around Chiang Mai and I couldn't get by without my motorbike (60,000 ThB or US$2,000...but there are cheaper ones). I cannot speak to health insurance costs as I have coverage from my previous work. I don't teach but I imagine you will need a work permit if you did. Any specific questions, feel free to PM me.

PS. Go for it! Don't wait...just do it! I did it at 55 and have not regrets!

[little mary sunshine]

If you cook your steaks and hamburgers at home, get a motorbike or live on the baht

bus route in CM you can live really well on 35,000B ($1200)per month, really well. I

rented a beautiful studio at the Gala Thong for a year for 7,000B per month. Went

bowling once a week, played golf, went for drinks once or twice a week, enjoyed the

movies each week and ate lots of thai food that I enjoy. Oh you can go to Duke's

just across the river for the Best Pizza in Thailand. Enjoy CM.

[Mudcrab]

You are 52? and worrying about dropping dead at work? Do it now and to hell with the consequences.

[donniereadit]

You can do Chiang Mai easily on $2300 without touching savings. My total monthly budget is less then half that and I live in a luxury wood home within walking distance to the moat. That's through a realtor. But other things are quite frugal like I eat from local thai markets/street food, buy used clothes etc (not because i need to, but because i want to).

I don't do expat restaurants, rarely bars and don't pay for sex (have enough control and pride as a man to get a woman the natural way).

Your real question is whether you have enough character and control over yourself to live in a third world country where what you can do is more tolerated then in the west. A lot of these expats here are really just like children and society was their parent, they have no self-discipline and once you take them out of a more controlled environment they just end up partying and throwing money left and right.

[anto]

What you have now is far more than enough ( i am doing it on far far less ) .Just go for it .( unless there is something you are going to miss very much in the US )

[thaimentor]

I am not crazy about Thai food so will be mostly eating American fast food or at home

I'm sorry I have to laugh at this. Sure, you can live on American fast food or prepare your own Western food at home... but you'll pay at least double what it costs to eat Thai food.

More importantly, you'll be missing out on the variety of really good, delicious and much healthier local food, ranging from traditional Thai food (such as everyone's favorite spicy soup "tomyam" and the famous Northern Thai "kaosoi", a kind of spicy noodle curry) to Muslim, Indian, Japanese and Chinese food - not to mention vegetarian dishes and salads and seafood and many quite good French and Italian restaurants and pizzerias. Dukes is a favorite amongst Americans, but only because they don't know any better - or haven't developed the taste for real food yet... LOL!

It's also quite a hassle to cook at home... for the same price as eating out. I do like to cook my own food, but you'll be amazed at what it takes to get all your kitchen gear together - a decent fridge, a stove/oven, pots and pans, a rice cooker, stock ingredients and spices and condiments, and a big sink for washing up!

Your tastes will definitely change and you'll wonder how you were ever able to eat American fast food in the past without barfing

Are you a big man with a big appetite? Then you'll want to join the local restaurant group who eat out together every fortnight at amazingly delicious but hidden local restaurants - enjoying the occasional Western "treat" like beef spam (!) as well as traditional local food.