Scotland to become independent in March 2016 if referendum passes

[Basil B]

BASIL B

My concern is the Pied Piper of Linithgow will lead the people of Scotland with stories of great wealth down the road of no return to ruination.

Lots of men women and children would already state that it is ruined,,read this http://www.businessf...ands-wealth-go/ and don't be so flippant to the people who are living in poverty and dying young because of geographical politics

You quote from a site, that only takes two seconds to work out it is just propaganda.

[7by7]

Wigantojapan,

Why do you merely post cut and paste jobs from the Yes campaign's website and other pro independence website?

Have you no arguments of your own?

[Basil B]

One thing about Scotland, it has no shortage of fiction writers...

[wigantojapan]

Wigantojapan,

Why do you merely post cut and paste jobs from the Yes campaign's website and other pro independence website?

Have you no arguments of your own?

You 7 by 7 are of course free to add your OWN argument to what i have presented

.They do after all present the No side as well as the counter argument.

You can always add to what the no side have said.

Also the best form of defense is to know your enemy, so see it as an educational tool for yourself and fellow Unionists, if you can muster the courage to overcome your disgust, to even partially reading a opposition viewpoint from yourself.

I myself have learned a lot from the No viewpoint....Fools who stop learning is it not.?

[wigantojapan]

Basil B

You quote from a site, that only takes two seconds to work out it is just propaganda.

You of course Basil B are free and encouraged to add your opinion to any of the sites i have linked here.

i would be more than curious to see your argument and what propaganda you would forward to support your statement..

[wigantojapan]

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/profile-tony-banks/Here is one of the members profiles from the propaganda site

See he is an ex Falklands among other carers

[StreetCowboy]

I am Scots form both sides of my family going back as far as my village church began keeping records..

But if Scotland votes for independence I want to have right to retain my British passport.. Note that I will also make great effort to remove any Scots-accent from my speech. And I'll then deny I have or have ever had any affiliation with the nation of retards who voted for split of the Union..

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My Grandfather was Scottish too.

I assume you are not living in Scotland and will not have the vote, then I assume you will remain to be British.

My concern is the Pied Piper of Linithgow will lead the people of Scotland with stories of great wealth down the road of no return to ruination.

I wonder how many of our secessionists will be queuing up to surrender their British passports when the time comes.

I won't. If that prevents me collecting a tartan one, then so be it.

SC

[RuamRudy]

This thread is increasingly reading like a playground rammie, with most of the tantrums and threats coming from those who support the status quo. I wonder is that because they sense that the momentum is with Yes campaign?

[transam]

This thread is increasingly reading like a playground rammie, with most of the tantrums and threats coming from those who support the status quo. I wonder is that because they sense that the momentum is with Yes campaign?

I don't think so . I am not a Scot and to old to care about what Scotland does, But, the thread subject really makes one think about stuff. Hence a few posts from me.

May I add, someone mentioned they don't want to be governed by Tories any more, well, got to tell ya, if Scotland goes it's own way and in the future they find out King Salmond has f............ up, you may well vote in a Tory style government.

Weeeell, look at the UK as a whole, we shuffle from one party extreme to another every few years cos the elector thinks the last one got it wrong so must try something else. I think Scotland will be no different after the honeymoon period is over.

[RuamRudy]

This thread is increasingly reading like a playground rammie, with most of the tantrums and threats coming from those who support the status quo. I wonder is that because they sense that the momentum is with Yes campaign?

I don't think so . I am not a Scot and to old to care about what Scotland does, But, the thread subject really makes one think about stuff. Hence a few posts from me.

May I add, someone mentioned they don't want to be governed by Tories any more, well, got to tell ya, if Scotland goes it's own way and in the future they find out King Salmond has f............ up, you may well vote in a Tory style government.

Weeeell, look at the UK as a whole, we shuffle from one party extreme to another every few years cos the elector thinks the last one got it wrong so must try something else. I think Scotland will be no different after the honeymoon period is over.

Although my memories of the '79 referendum are very hazy, I can recall an SNP slogan from around that time that went along the lines of 'Vote for us and we'll resign'.

The referendum is not about giving a mandate to an SNP government to rule the country at length; it is about Scots seeking full control in Scotland and its affairs, both home and abroad. The SNP have already stated that, in the event of a vote for Yes, a cross party group of MSPs would be involved in the subsequent negotiations.

The SNP, having thus achieved its aim, would probably transform into something totally different, and the politics of Scotland may take on a very different look.

[nontabury]

This thread is increasingly reading like a playground rammie, with most of the tantrums and threats coming from those who support the status quo. I wonder is that because they sense that the momentum is with Yes campaign?

I don't think so . I am not a Scot and to old to care about what Scotland does, But, the thread subject really makes one think about stuff. Hence a few posts from me.

May I add, someone mentioned they don't want to be governed by Tories any more, well, got to tell ya, if Scotland goes it's own way and in the future they find out King Salmond has f............ up, you may well vote in a Tory style government.

Weeeell, look at the UK as a whole, we shuffle from one party extreme to another every few years cos the elector thinks the last one got it wrong so must try something else. I think Scotland will be no different after the honeymoon period is over.

Although my memories of the '79 referendum are very hazy, I can recall an SNP slogan from around that time that went along the lines of 'Vote for us and we'll resign'.

The referendum is not about giving a mandate to an SNP government to rule the country at length; it is about Scots seeking full control in Scotland and its affairs, both home and abroad. The SNP have already stated that, in the event of a vote for Yes, a cross party group of MSPs would be involved in the subsequent negotiations.

The SNP, having thus achieved its aim, would probably transform into something totally different, and the politics of Scotland may take on a very different look.

You talk about Scots seeking full control of its affairs, and to achieve this requires them to separate from the UK, where they are over represented and certainly have more clout than they warrant or deserve, for what, dictatorial control by the Eurocrats in Brussels who IF the Scotts are allowed to join will insist that they MUST join the Euro and abide by THIER rules and regulations. You can take it for certain that the Eurocrates will not pander to the whims and tantrums of an insignificant member of the EU. And you call this Independence.

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[RuamRudy]

This thread is increasingly reading like a playground rammie, with most of the tantrums and threats coming from those who support the status quo. I wonder is that because they sense that the momentum is with Yes campaign?

I don't think so . I am not a Scot and to old to care about what Scotland does, But, the thread subject really makes one think about stuff. Hence a few posts from me.

May I add, someone mentioned they don't want to be governed by Tories any more, well, got to tell ya, if Scotland goes it's own way and in the future they find out King Salmond has f............ up, you may well vote in a Tory style government.

Weeeell, look at the UK as a whole, we shuffle from one party extreme to another every few years cos the elector thinks the last one got it wrong so must try something else. I think Scotland will be no different after the honeymoon period is over.

Although my memories of the '79 referendum are very hazy, I can recall an SNP slogan from around that time that went along the lines of 'Vote for us and we'll resign'.

The referendum is not about giving a mandate to an SNP government to rule the country at length; it is about Scots seeking full control in Scotland and its affairs, both home and abroad. The SNP have already stated that, in the event of a vote for Yes, a cross party group of MSPs would be involved in the subsequent negotiations.

The SNP, having thus achieved its aim, would probably transform into something totally different, and the politics of Scotland may take on a very different look.

You talk about Scots seeking full control of its affairs, and to achieve this requires them to separate from the UK, where they are over represented and certainly have more clout than they warrant or deserve, for what, dictatorial control by the Eurocrats in Brussels who IF the Scotts are allowed to join will insist that they MUST join the Euro and abide by THIER rules and regulations. You can take it for certain that the Eurocrates will not pander to the whims and tantrums of an insignificant member of the EU. And you call this Independence.

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I may be wrong, but when I read your posts on this thread, the words you choose and the emphases you use give me the distinct impression that you are genuinely angry at the prospect of Scottish independence or even the notion that a sizeable number of people might desire it.

But then you mention that you believe we are already over represented in Westminster, and that we have more clout than we 'warrant or deserve'. Well, there is a clear contradiction in your argument - you clearly believe that there should be a reduction Scottish influence in the wider UK, but you are also suggesting that should we depart the union, we will be hamstrung by the EU. By your way of thinking, Scots will lose whichever way they vote.

[RuamRudy]

This thread is increasingly reading like a playground rammie, with most of the tantrums and threats coming from those who support the status quo. I wonder is that because they sense that the momentum is with Yes campaign?

I don't think so . I am not a Scot and to old to care about what Scotland does, But, the thread subject really makes one think about stuff. Hence a few posts from me.

May I add, someone mentioned they don't want to be governed by Tories any more, well, got to tell ya, if Scotland goes it's own way and in the future they find out King Salmond has f............ up, you may well vote in a Tory style government.

Weeeell, look at the UK as a whole, we shuffle from one party extreme to another every few years cos the elector thinks the last one got it wrong so must try something else. I think Scotland will be no different after the honeymoon period is over.

Although my memories of the '79 referendum are very hazy, I can recall an SNP slogan from around that time that went along the lines of 'Vote for us and we'll resign'.

The referendum is not about giving a mandate to an SNP government to rule the country at length; it is about Scots seeking full control in Scotland and its affairs, both home and abroad. The SNP have already stated that, in the event of a vote for Yes, a cross party group of MSPs would be involved in the subsequent negotiations.

The SNP, having thus achieved its aim, would probably transform into something totally different, and the politics of Scotland may take on a very different look.

You talk about Scots seeking full control of its affairs, and to achieve this requires them to separate from the UK, where they are over represented and certainly have more clout than they warrant or deserve, for what, dictatorial control by the Eurocrats in Brussels who IF the Scotts are allowed to join will insist that they MUST join the Euro and abide by THIER rules and regulations. You can take it for certain that the Eurocrates will not pander to the whims and tantrums of an insignificant member of the EU. And you call this Independence.

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I may be wrong, but when I read your posts on this thread, the words you choose and the emphases you use give me the distinct impression that you are genuinely angry at the prospect of Scottish independence or even the notion that a sizeable number of people might desire it.

But then you mention that you believe we are already over represented in Westminster, and that we have more clout than we 'warrant or deserve'. Well, there is a clear contradiction in your argument - you clearly believe that there should be a reduction Scottish influence in the wider UK, but you are also suggesting that should we depart the union, we will be hamstrung by the EU. By your way of thinking, Scots will lose whichever way they vote.

Yes! you are certainly wrong in thinking I am angry at the prospect of Scottish so called independence. What I am angry about is the way successive UK governments( often lead by Scot prime ministers ) have pandered to the whinging and moaning of those who have done exceptionally well out of the Union. I hope that you and your fellow Scots will vote YES in September, thus granting England its Independence.

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Then we are (partially) in agreement - here's to a brighter and better independent future for all of us!

[nontabury]

Ruamrudy,

Sorry forgot to mention that "YES" I do think Scotland will loose out when it moves its allegiance from the UK to the EU. However one good thong,England will be better of.

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[wigantojapan]

An opinion by the No side Euro: Scotland would be forced to use the euro

.An opinion by the yes side No country can be forced into the euro. The Czech Republic joined the EU in 2004, after the euro had been adopted as the common currency of the original 11 members of the Eurozone. The Czechs won't be bounced into the euro, and have consistently refused to make moves to adopt it.

In January 2012, Czech Prime Minister Petr Nečas stated that the country did not require a special opt-out in order to retain the koruna as its currency. Mr Nečas said: "No one can force us into joining the euro ... We have a de facto opt-out." Candidates for euro membership must sign up to ERM II for at least two years before adopting the euro as currency, however it is entirely up to the discretion of each individual member state when to sign up to ERM II and member countries can legitimately delay this indefinitely. But Mr Nečas said all this in Czech, so it wasn't reported in the Anglocentric Unionist media.

This approach has also been adopted by the government of Sweden which has likewise declined to join the Eurozone but has no negotiated opt-out. Sweden says nej to the euro

[wigantojapan]

An opinion by the no side

Expats: I'm an expat, independence means my English children would become foreigners to me.

An opinion by the yes side

In the normal world, children inherit their parent's citizenship. If you become a Scottish citizen post-independence, your children would qualify for dual nationality. They'll get to be Scottish if they want, and citizens of their country of birth and residence. The UK already recognises dual citizenship, that's not likely to change after Scottish independence - just witness the number of people who qualify for both Irish and British passports.

Your English child will only become an alien to you if you disapprove of the latest boyfriend or girlfriend with an abundance of tattoos and metallic face-furniture and say you're not going to the wedding. No one else can help you with that.

[wigantojapan]

An No opinion Freebies: After independence Scots would lose our 'freebies' like free prescriptions, free education, and bus passes for the elderly.

A yes opinion

No, we wouldn't. Our "freebies" are safe, we're already paying for them. They are paid for out of the pocket money that Westminster deigns to return to Scotland, which in turn comes out of the revenues Scotland sends to Westminster. We get back less than we give. That's happening now, under the Uion, but because Holyrood has adopted a different set of spending priorities from Westminster, we get our "freebies". Much the same happens in Wales, where prescriptions are also free. England could have these "freebies" too, but Westminster chooses to spend the cash on other things - like introducing privatisation into the NHS in England.

Currently we're subject to Westminster's whims, and should the Tories and their Lib Dem hangers on decide to cut public spending even further, then Scottish public services are at risk too. Scotland will have no say in the matter. Do you trust Davie Cameron with your granny's bus pass?

After independence, all Scottish revenues would accrue to the Scottish Parliament, which would give them a bigger pot than they currently have. We'll also have a Parliament that is free to make the spending decisions that the Scottish electorate votes for. Only independence can guarantee our freebies

[wigantojapan]

A no opinion Greed: Scotland benefited financially from the UK before the oil was found. It's just greed to keep it for ourselves now it's our turn to share.

A yes opinionScotland was the Vorsprung durch Technik of the Victorian age and the first half of the 20th century. Glasgow wasn't once known as the "Second City of the Empire" because it specialised in the manufacture of Olympic silver medals. Before the oil was found Scotland was a centre of heavy industry. We were one of the UK's major industrial and trading powerhouses and exported goods all over the world. That's where our famed prowess as mechanical wizards came from, and the stereotype it created was so powerful we got lumbered with thon Canadian guy with the appalling accent playing the engineer in Star Trek. Every time Captain Kirk said beam me up Scottie he was reminding us of the economic clout and technological prowess of Scotland.

Even before the oil money started to flow, Scotland more than paid her own way in the UK, as this article from a former senior civil servant makes clear. There were never any Westminster subsidies, Westminster spent on Scotland rather less than it took from us in taxes and said it was doing us a good turn. Meanwhile Scotland was blighted by poverty, poor housing and appalling health, but at least we had jobs.

The discovery of the oil coincided with the death of Scottish heavy industry, the UK government embarked upon a deliberate programme of deindustrialisation. Scotland substituted one means of subsidising the UK economy with another. We continue to subsidise Westminster heavily, but now we've got mass unemployment as well. Yippee, it's a Union benefit. Taking all our money then spending a bit of it on us isn't a subsidy. We don't owe any favours to a government that treats us like a cash cow.

Westminster continues to milk Scotland in the most shameless and outrageous ways. The most recent revelation is that Scotland is paying £400 million for the construction of London's sewage system because it's being paid for out of UK national reserve funds. That's our future that Westminster is flushing down a London lavvy. It's no longer mere hyperbole to say that Westminster expects Scotland to pay for Conservative MPs' crap, it's quite literally true in a very real and toilet papery sense. They buy the supersoft quilted three-ply with our money, and we're left with the shiny hard stuff.

It's only with independence that Scotland can be the Vorsprung durch Technik of the green energy age. It's not greed to insist that you won't be ripped off any more, and it's certainly not greed to demand that Westminster wipes its own behind and stops expecting Scotland to do it for them.

ter's (1) invisible carrot (2) flavour austerity jam (3)?
1. Health warning: This product line contains nuts.
2. The manufacturer reserves the right to delay delivery of this item indefinitely.
3. Contents of this product may differ substantially from the packaging.

Politically however, Westminster would be obliged by the results of a referendum on Scottish independence, and that's the point. If Scotland votes in favour of independence in a ballot conducted according to internationally established norms, Westminster would be bound by it. That's why they're desperate to wrest control of the referendum from the Scottish Parliament, because they want to give us another of the referendums they've given us in the past, like the 1979 referendum where the votes of the dead counted as a no. The reason they're complaining so loudly that Holyrood would rig the referendum is because that's precisely what they'd do themselves. It's called psychological projection.

Disturbingly we face the fact that UK's poor economic performance is underpinned by massive borrowings. If all UK debt, including commercial debt, is looked at the UK is the second most indebted country in the world per capita:

[wigantojapan]

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/answers-for-a-no-minded-businessperson/

Interesting link for the ones who like a little more than playground rammies....and yes feel free to comment here on link page if you agree or disagree

[wigantojapan]

Nearly one in three of England’s children live in poverty - one of the worst rates of child poverty in the developed world. From emergency grants for families in need to advocacy at Westminster, we’re fighting to end child poverty in England. -

• There are 3.5 million children living in poverty in the UK today. That’s 27 per cent of children, or more than one in four.1
• Work does not provide a guaranteed route out of poverty in the UK. Two-thirds (66 per cent) of children growing up in poverty live in a family where at least one member works.3
• People are poor for many reasons. But explanations which put poverty down to drug and alcohol dependency, family breakdown, poor parenting, or a culture of worklessness are not supported by the facts.4
• Under current government policies, child poverty is projected to rise from 2012/13 with an expected 600,000 more children living in poverty by 2015/16.10 This upward trend is expected to continue with 4.7 million children projected to be living in poverty by 2020.

Vote no vote for more children in poverty

[Rinrada]

Khun wiffee asked me the other day if she can have a Scottish Passport after Independence..............said YES........................maybe....options....aye

[RuamRudy]

Nearly one in three of England’s children live in poverty - one of the worst rates of child poverty in the developed world. From emergency grants for families in need to advocacy at Westminster, we’re fighting to end child poverty in England. -

• There are 3.5 million children living in poverty in the UK today. That’s 27 per cent of children, or more than one in four.1
• Work does not provide a guaranteed route out of poverty in the UK. Two-thirds (66 per cent) of children growing up in poverty live in a family where at least one member works.3
• People are poor for many reasons. But explanations which put poverty down to drug and alcohol dependency, family breakdown, poor parenting, or a culture of worklessness are not supported by the facts.4
• Under current government policies, child poverty is projected to rise from 2012/13 with an expected 600,000 more children living in poverty by 2015/16.10 This upward trend is expected to continue with 4.7 million children projected to be living in poverty by 2020.

Vote no vote for more children in poverty

From the BBC today:

Almost 85,000' workers on zero-hours contracts in Scotland

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-27001024

[transam]

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/answers-for-a-no-minded-businessperson/

Interesting link for the ones who like a little more than playground rammies....and yes feel free to comment here on link page if you agree or disagree

Are you saying, as a Union, that Mr & Mrs Scottish are paying more income tax, VAT, NI or any other tax that affects their daily lives than Mr & Mrs English or Mr & Mrs Welsh.?

I don't know, so enlighten me please.

[Basil B]

• "There are 3.5 million children living in poverty in the UK today. That’s 27 per cent of children, or more than one in four."

Where did they get there figures from?

If you are going to cut and past please provide a link to the full page.

[Basil B]

Nearly one in three of England’s children live in poverty - one of the worst rates of child poverty in the developed world. From emergency grants for families in need to advocacy at Westminster, we’re fighting to end child poverty in England. -

• There are 3.5 million children living in poverty in the UK today. That’s 27 per cent of children, or more than one in four.1
• Work does not provide a guaranteed route out of poverty in the UK. Two-thirds (66 per cent) of children growing up in poverty live in a family where at least one member works.3
• People are poor for many reasons. But explanations which put poverty down to drug and alcohol dependency, family breakdown, poor parenting, or a culture of worklessness are not supported by the facts.4
• Under current government policies, child poverty is projected to rise from 2012/13 with an expected 600,000 more children living in poverty by 2015/16.10 This upward trend is expected to continue with 4.7 million children projected to be living in poverty by 2020.

Vote no vote for more children in poverty

From the BBC today:

Almost 85,000' workers on zero-hours contracts in Scotland

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-27001024

Zero hours contracts are something that our government needs to get a grip of, but independence will only mean more Scots without any contract of employment.

The only jobs going will be civil servants and telemarketing...

[wigantojapan]

• "There are 3.5 million children living in poverty in the UK today. That’s 27 per cent of children, or more than one in four."

Where did they get there figures from?

If you are going to cut and past please provide a link to the full page.

http://www.cpag.org.uk/This is the real Britain,,one that does not get enough media exposure far less government intervention,or spending.......Shocking and this is a main issue Scotland will tackle if they do get inderpendence

[wigantojapan]

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/answers-for-a-no-minded-businessperson/

Interesting link for the ones who like a little more than playground rammies....and yes feel free to comment here on link page if you agree or disagree

Are you saying, as a Union, that Mr & Mrs Scottish are paying more income tax, VAT, NI or any other tax that affects their daily lives than Mr & Mrs English or Mr & Mrs Welsh.?

I don't know, so enlighten me please.

Why don't you ask the man directly

.If you read the link and the posting you can easily do that...I am sure he is more than qualified to give you a satisfactory answer,,much more than myself could.

[wigantojapan]

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/westminster-driven-poverty-dmages-scotlands-economy/ oh well better go and enjoy songkran..I am lucky i have that choice ,,thousands of people through no fault of their own dont

[transam]

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/westminster-driven-poverty-dmages-scotlands-economy/ oh well better go and enjoy songkran..I am lucky i have that choice ,,thousands of people through no fault of their own dont

Who.......?

[RuamRudy]

Nearly one in three of England’s children live in poverty - one of the worst rates of child poverty in the developed world. From emergency grants for families in need to advocacy at Westminster, we’re fighting to end child poverty in England. -

• There are 3.5 million children living in poverty in the UK today. That’s 27 per cent of children, or more than one in four.1
• Work does not provide a guaranteed route out of poverty in the UK. Two-thirds (66 per cent) of children growing up in poverty live in a family where at least one member works.3
• People are poor for many reasons. But explanations which put poverty down to drug and alcohol dependency, family breakdown, poor parenting, or a culture of worklessness are not supported by the facts.4
• Under current government policies, child poverty is projected to rise from 2012/13 with an expected 600,000 more children living in poverty by 2015/16.10 This upward trend is expected to continue with 4.7 million children projected to be living in poverty by 2020.

Vote no vote for more children in poverty

From the BBC today:

Almost 85,000' workers on zero-hours contracts in Scotland

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-27001024

Zero hours contracts are something that our government needs to get a grip of, but independence will only mean more Scots without any contract of employment.

The only jobs going will be civil servants and telemarketing...

Do you seriously trust our government to get a grip of this?

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