Suthep rejects House dissolution

[silent]

It's SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE from Thailand

[JAG]

 

 

 

This guy is such a plank. :-)

My thoughts exactly..

He knows that an election will bring back the current government - but then it's what the people of Thailand want. Sooner or later they will have to accept that democracy means that who wins an election is the chosen person to lead, regardless of whether they agree or not.

All of those who scream vote buying.. don't be so naive to think that it's just one party doing it.. we got the same amount from all candidates last time  

totster

 

 

The article by Chris Baker and Acharn Pasuk in the BP yesterday demolished the argument vote buying influences electoral results once and for all.From now on those who invoke vote buying as an argument against democracy in Thailand need to show evidence and demonstrate their case.Otherwise there is no need to bother with them.

 

How about some logic then..

 

If vote buying does not work why is it done

 

Remember Mr T his remarks those who did not vote for me won't be helped (threat to the South)

 

If stuff like this does not work... then why it is done.. I am sure they much rather keep they money themselves.

 

Actually in Sutheps speech he says the rice scheme is vote buying because it gave the poor farmers double the price for the rice, he also said the minimum wage increase was vote buying as well, goes to show what this is really all about. The rich elite and the military don't want to see any of these peoples lives improve as they have labeled these policies as vote buying.

Put all the BS, lies, propaganda, corruption etc. etc. aside the bottom line to this struggle has always been the rich elite partnered with the military against the poor undeclassed or working class who have the majority. it just baffles me how many farangs that post here want the poor to stay poor, remain uneducated and not have the same opportunities to improve the quality of life!

Because it's the Thailand they came too,

the Thailand which gave them the good life where everything they wanted was available - cheap.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[kingstonkid]

I can't imagine anyone making these kinds of demands in any other democracy.

Think back in your Canadian History my son.

There are many

Look to the south There are even more.

Suthep is right about one thing. This country needs to find a way to keep Thaksinism out of the country.

In the mean time the simple way for them to over throw PTP is to take what the people want and make it the basis of the platform of how the Dem's will run power.

As to the hand signals. Wake up folks the Black movement in the US used it a lot. i am sure there are others.

Suthep must make sure that when this ends that the people are fired up so that they will not drink the

Thaksin says, Yingluck leaves the country, Chalerm does kool aid anymore. he also needs to make sure that the groups that he has with him will support him and AV in the election.

[DK2223]

This guy is such a plank. :-)

My thoughts exactly..

He knows that an election will bring back the current government - but then it's what the people of Thailand want. Sooner or later they will have to accept that democracy means that who wins an election is the chosen person to lead, regardless of whether they agree or not.

All of those who scream vote buying.. don't be so naive to think that it's just one party doing it.. we got the same amount from all candidates last time

totster

Good statement. Politic and politician is always dirty. When thing happen out not the way they wanted, they start pointing finger to the opposite.

[chiang mai]

Cool, so let's go out and make all the poor people in Thailand wealthy, that sounds like a brilliant idea. We can tell all the wealthy business types that they have to contribute much much more to the poor classes and when they become wealthy and refuse to cultivate rice we can import more Burmese. Sorry but I had to do that!

There is a delicate balance over time between rich and poor and all the grades in between, that is an inescapable truth and it will always exist. Currently in Thailand, that balance is weighted unnaturally in favor of the poor by virtue of the assets of the rich, a more normal balance needs to be restored.

[DK2223]

I can't imagine anyone making these kinds of demands in any other democracy.

Agree, like in say in other post, "An educated person act and talk like a child demanding thing from their parents".

[SICHONSTEVE]

Suthep claimed that he is bringing the power back to people. Let the people vote then. It's like my way or highway deal, not true democracy.

Is deceiving people into voting for them and then attempting to disregard parliamentary rules and the court of the land's verdicts democracy???

Voted in by fools in order to bring 1 criminal home. One policy, and boy did they cock that up big time!!

[Alwyn]

I thought this bloke had warrants for his arrest? Can the police not find him because all the photographers can. this guy wants democracy only as long as for him and nobody else. what a helmet this person truly is.

[Alwyn]

Suthep; I want Yingluck out and the government dissolved.

Yingluck: okay I resign and dissolve the government

Suthep: I reject that

[sjaak327]

Exactly my point, the man is more interested in the principle than the job or the cash at the end.

Haha, the principles he has neglected his entire political career ? What a way to miss a point, you are being played for a fool.

[millwall_fan]

Last time they had a landslide 48% ha ha ha------------they formed then a government by promises to get others to join them with rewards from the TROUGH.

With having 48% last time how much this next time around ???? 30% if lucky, without other grovelers to join to make up a majority--they are nothing really, you see they thrive on MONEY and these other small parties are the same as a load of Issan people, Thais side with the powerful, like the street kids when fighting a mob brings down a lone farang, very rare a clean 1 to 1.

Thais are insecure people -money/power/elders can rule them. only a few like these opposition notables started the ball rolling-alone Thais are negative. (in general)

You simply have no idea what you are talking about! Thailand is a parliamentary system with constituencies. It is not a simple majority of the popular vote that counts - in fact 48% is quite high in such a system - the UK government rarely gets over 40% of the popular vote in an election. PT obtained an overall majority in parliament under the election system. The small parties were invited to join the coalition to broaden the government's base even further. Incidentally the reason they have a 'first past the post' constituency system is that the 2007 constitution that was railroaded through by the last military appointed government, introduced it because they felt that was the best way to reduce Thaksin's majority. Under the 1999 constitution, that all sides at the time agreed on, Peua Thai would have won by an even greater margin.

The ruling elite have tried a number of times over the past decade to unseat Thaksin's party. Each time they have failed. Now they want to change the whole system - so that they can continue to strut around like peacocks with everyone doffing and scraping and wai-ing really low to them.

I'm a bit sorry that Yingluck has called fresh elections, I feel she should have fronted the mob out. But elections will show once again that PT is the most popular party in the country, with a majority, and then the ruling elite will try to dilodge them again. and so the merry-go-round will continue.

[bigbamboo]

Doesn't he realize that his party lost the last election, will lose this one, the next one, so on and so on?

Just being rhetorical. Of course, I am sure he will have plenty of answers for a rhetorical question.

I am sure he isn't against crooks running the government, as long as they are his crooks.

Even if Lee Kuan Yew runs against Thaksin, Mr. Lee would loose.

Because Thaksin bought vote wholesales.

If Buddha returned and ran against Thaksin even the Enlightened One would probably lose on a recount.

[ginjag]

Last time they had a landslide 48% ha ha ha------------they formed then a government by promises to get others to join them with rewards from the TROUGH.

With having 48% last time how much this next time around ???? 30% if lucky, without other grovelers to join to make up a majority--they are nothing really, you see they thrive on MONEY and these other small parties are the same as a load of Issan people, Thais side with the powerful, like the street kids when fighting a mob brings down a lone farang, very rare a clean 1 to 1.

Thais are insecure people -money/power/elders can rule them. only a few like these opposition notables started the ball rolling-alone Thais are negative. (in general)

You simply have no idea what you are talking about! Thailand is a parliamentary system with constituencies. It is not a simple majority of the popular vote that counts - in fact 48% is quite high in such a system - the UK government rarely gets over 40% of the popular vote in an election. PT obtained an overall majority in parliament under the election system. The small parties were invited to join the coalition to broaden the government's base even further. Incidentally the reason they have a 'first past the post' constituency system is that the 2007 constitution that was railroaded through by the last military appointed government, introduced it because they felt that was the best way to reduce Thaksin's majority. Under the 1999 constitution, that all sides at the time agreed on, Peua Thai would have won by an even greater margin.

The ruling elite have tried a number of times over the past decade to unseat Thaksin's party. Each time they have failed. Now they want to change the whole system - so that they can continue to strut around like peacocks with everyone doffing and scraping and wai-ing really low to them.

I'm a bit sorry that Yingluck has called fresh elections, I feel she should have fronted the mob out. But elections will show once again that PT is the most popular party in the country, with a majority, and then the ruling elite will try to dilodge them again. and so the merry-go-round will continue.

Your thugs started the MOB theme --and in the end they will kill themselves off--money rules as Thaksin proved, but eventually the people get sick of corruption.

Talking about thugs You at Millwall should know plenty about that. refereeing there was always a knightmare. believe ME.

I am here 32 years and do not know what I'm talking about???? you have those rose glasses on but you will find out later and lose face.

This lot will go the same way as Millwall down hill fast.

[jaidam]

Well it's clear that there is a widely differing view of Khun Suthep among the members here, but two things I think we all agree on is that he has balls, and that he is very much abiding by the political queensbury rules in trying to eradicate the Shinawatra regime. Its commendable to see such conviction without resorting to violence, which we have almost come to expect since the creation of the Thai-rak era.

[falangadang]

Like him or not,.. he's absolutely correct in his response to Yingluck's statement about dissolving parliament for new elections when he said,...

"the dissolution of the House and the general election would only bring back the old regime to rule the country again."

As far as the claim by many (especially TV forum posters) that vote buying goes both ways,.. that may be so but not on the same scale. The Dems don't have the massive capital backing that Thaksin has and neither also do they have the motivation and the economic awareness as Thaksin has in that such massive "investments" always pay off in the long run.

The problem here is that the working class farmers that vote him [TS] in don't understand politics or democracy. They understand basics such as who in power will see to it that at least some money and benefits flow through to them despite the MASSIVE skimming at the top and via Poo Yais. Add to that the popularist policies that bleed the government coffers,.. and the lies and deception that the poor all do understand and when you put all of that together it becomes a hopeless situation as long as the Thakins of this world have the will and the wherewithal.

It's a bloody mess and whilst I'm not saying that Suthep's blueprint isn't without flaws,.. we do NOT have a democracy anyway in this country at all which is proven by 80 years of government coups, take overs and power grabs. This is a country trying to become a democracy,.. but not quite there yet and this is why we see these massive power grabs and political fights occurring every decade (sometimes 2 per decade).

Fundamentally I agree with Suthep's sentiment in that for as long as we have the Shinawatras in government, we will not have a democratic system and the rampant corruption, skimming and self serving will only continue.

[MrSlatersParrot]

I watched Jonathan Head interviewing the light skinned thai chinese as the protestors marched past shouting out out.

Yes she and the Bangkok bourgeoisie want the Shiniwatras and their government driven out. Out of the country.

They want ORDER without the law as they aspire to be elites above the LAW!

So where does it end?

Drive out the Shiniwatra family? Their business associates? PTPs backers,The parliamentary leaders? The red shirt leaders? Intellectuals and academics?

How again will Thailand be able to hold elections when there can be any hint that Thaksin ,or anyone else following for that matter, have influence over the poor?

Clearly the PAD, Dems, Suthep etc will attempt to avoid any further elections for these reasons should they be victorious.

However look at Wikileaks the State department demanded elections within 1 year last time so the Merry-go-around will start again. Or worse.

[Alwyn]

I sense that most posters, with one or two notable exceptions, are newcomers hence they probably don't full understand or appreciate the history of how election votes have been bought in the past and how political favors have been repaid by offering money making positions in government. For what it's worth and this may seem very undemocratic (but it's not really) I'm with Suthep 100%.

Before Thaksin and TRT, the pratice you speak off was happening as well, some argue it was worse than after 2001. Suthep himself could tell you exactly how it worked back then, as he was one of the players. Suthep screaming end to curruption and power to the people is absolutely not what he means.

Suthep the "unblemished" Tell me again about the land in Samui and his son...

[smutcakes]

Like him or not,.. he's absolutely correct in his response to Yingluck's statement about dissolving parliament for new elections when he said,...

"the dissolution of the House and the general election would only bring back the old regime to rule the country again."

As far as the claim by many (especially TV forum posters) that vote buying goes both ways,.. that may be so but not on the same scale. The Dems don't have the massive capital backing that Thaksin has and neither also do they have the motivation and the economic awareness as Thaksin has in that such massive "investments" always pay off in the long run.

The problem here is that the working class farmers that vote him [TS] in don't understand politics or democracy. They understand basics such as who in power will see to it that at least some money and benefits flow through to them despite the MASSIVE skimming at the top and via Poo Yais. Add to that the popularist policies that bleed the government coffers,.. and the lies and deception that the poor all do understand and when you put all of that together it becomes a hopeless situation as long as the Thakins of this world have the will and the wherewithal.

It's a bloody mess and whilst I'm not saying that Suthep's blueprint isn't without flaws,.. we do NOT have a democracy anyway in this country at all which is proven by 80 years of government coups, take overs and power grabs. This is a country trying to become a democracy,.. but not quite there yet and this is why we see these massive power grabs and political fights occurring every decade (sometimes 2 per decade).

Fundamentally I agree with Suthep's sentiment in that for as long as we have the Shinawatras in government, we will not have a democratic system and the rampant corruption, skimming and self serving will only continue.

As do many people, but just what is the solution? A People's council? elected/voted and away the best thing to do would have been vote them out at the next election. No complaints. IIf people are willing to accept 500 baht for a vote, they get the Government they deserve.

[chiang mai]

I sense that most posters, with one or two notable exceptions, are newcomers hence they probably don't full understand or appreciate the history of how election votes have been bought in the past and how political favors have been repaid by offering money making positions in government. For what it's worth and this may seem very undemocratic (but it's not really) I'm with Suthep 100%.

Before Thaksin and TRT, the pratice you speak off was happening as well, some argue it was worse than after 2001. Suthep himself could tell you exactly how it worked back then, as he was one of the players. Suthep screaming end to curruption and power to the people is absolutely not what he means.

Suthep the "unblemished" Tell me again about the land in Samui and his son...

Unblemished? You'll be lucky, find me some one on the planet who is still alive that is!

[Alwyn]

I sense that most posters, with one or two notable exceptions, are newcomers hence they probably don't full understand or appreciate the history of how election votes have been bought in the past and how political favors have been repaid by offering money making positions in government. For what it's worth and this may seem very undemocratic (but it's not really) I'm with Suthep 100%.

Before Thaksin and TRT, the pratice you speak off was happening as well, some argue it was worse than after 2001. Suthep himself could tell you exactly how it worked back then, as he was one of the players. Suthep screaming end to curruption and power to the people is absolutely not what he means.

Suthep the "unblemished" Tell me again about the land in Samui and his son...

Unblemished? You'll be lucky, find me some one on the planet who is still alive that is!

Exactly that Chiang Mai, he waffles on about corruption and he's as bent as Thaksin in his own way! and as you say, most people have drunk at that trough to some extent..But something I've been thinking of, help me out here.. This unelected "people's council", who decides who it's made up of, or do they vote for the people...... lol I always thought a people's council was the ones elected by the people, you know, the government!

[bkkfaranguy]

Put all the BS, lies, propaganda, corruption etc. etc. aside the bottom line to this struggle has always been the rich elite partnered with the military against the poor undeclassed or working class who have the majority. it just baffles me how many farangs that post here want the poor to stay poor, remain uneducated and not have the same opportunities to improve the quality of life!

This gun Sutheps speech he says the rice scheme is vote buying because it gave the poor farmers double the price for the rice, he also said the minimum wage increase was vote buying as well, goes to show what this is really all about. The rich elite and the military don't want to see any of these peoples lives improve as they have labeled these policies as vote buying.

The rice scheme is so corrupt because only the well off profit. Poor farmers with just a few rai keep their rice for consumption, only those with more than 10 rai will sell any rice, and obviously the more rai you have, the more money you will make in this scheme.

I agree the minimum wage rise was a good and indeed essential thing.

Do you know who proposed the most far reaching reforms of education in Thailand? Apisit about 15 years ago. Thaksin has never done anything to improve education, just constantly changed ministers.

The farmers with 10 rai or more recieved twice the price for there rice under the scheme, the majority of the farmers have between 10 - 20 Rai, made now difference to the 10 rai or less farmers as they where not selling there rice anyway. Yes I am sure there was some corruption as with any program in thailand but it was an effort to help the poor.

As far as education goes I agree but there have been 11 coups now 12 so no one has had much of an opportunity to get any friction on that subject. Also I think Abiset is probably one of the better ones he is just too hooked up with the wrong party and the BKK elites.

[jayjayjayjay]

Suthep claimed that he is bringing the power back to people. Let the people vote then. It's like my way or highway deal, not true democracy.

No need to vote. They are on the street now, and you just just count them.

Yes, all disgruntled Democrat voters are on the street. You could have 10 million of them there, but THAT AIN'T ENOUGH to win the general election. You see people on the street are just there to try to get people killed so another coup detet can generate a new election. Unsatisfied you as it all came to easy you want a very undemocratic council. When will the Democrats learn that they need decent policies! Simple but the stupid people at the top of the Dems, aka Sutep and Abihisit just don't get it!

[Stradavarius37]

As an active participant in TV for over 8 years, especially in the news forum, I have come to witness an interesting phenomenon. During times of political crisis (2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013), there appears a very curious strain of poster on the TV News Forum - the TV Red Shirts. These posters seem to spring up to "pop off" only during these times of crisis, and them just as quickly fade away after the crisis settles. The are characterized by a few noticeable traits.

1) Denial - They will never say anything bad about Thaksin, Pheu Thai Party, or the Red Shirt movement, regardless of any fact or argument presented. In fact, their typical reaction is the classic "ignore, and the misdirect". They refuse to discuss or debate, but instead rely soley yelling their point again and again, ad nauseum. This type of poster who only sees their side as "all right" and the other side as "all wrong" make most of the news threads during crisis times a chore to wade through. It's also a childish worldview to insist that only one side in a discussion is at fault. People who live in this type of "bubble" and profess these beliefs can be found on both sides of the discussion, but the majority are can be found in the TV Redshirt brigade.

2) The False Equivalency - this is a particular favorite of theirs. They like to state that "Both sides" are equally guilty of corruption, malfeasance, etc. While it is certainly true that there is corruption on both sides (in this case the PTP and Democrats), any reasonable look at the hundreds of billions being funneled away and lost in the rice pledging scheme (to name one example) dwarfs any program the Democrats ran that had corruption issues. Both sides being corrupt does not mean that one side cannot be MORE corrupt.

3) The Yellow Shirt Label - most of the reasoned, thoughtful news posters are well informed, polite, and welcome open and honest discourse. This discourse goes out the window during these crisis times. They most common response to a Red Shirt directed criticism is "Well the yellow shirts did this and this and this", as if the poster they are arguing with is a yellow shirt sympathizer. In fact, most the the well-reasoned thoughtful TF news forum debaters do not self identify with either movement, but instead try to look at things through the lens of "Thailand is my adoptive country, and even though I can't vote here, I want it to find sustainable success".

The "If you comment on my post you must be a yellow shirt" is a] worn tired cliche.

4) Name Calling - While any crisis brings out an increased TV readership ("Those "Breaking Alert" things that flood my inbox), the people who pop in, and pop out after the crisis tend to be much more vitriolic, and more willing to offer insults when their comments are commented upon in any negative fashion. I was just called a "<deleted>" by one particularly delightful "Pop-in TV Red Shirt". These folks are certainly good for the TV ad revenue stream, but really don't bring anything tangible to the conversation.

I could go on, but my fingers are tired of typing, and I suspect this will be one of the more interesting threads going forward. Lets see how many of the Crisis "Pop In" TV Red Shirts come to visit, and show us examples from my list lol.

[jayjayjayjay]

SNIP~~~~~~~~~

Unblemished? You'll be lucky, find me some one on the planet who is still alive that is!

Exactly that Chiang Mai, he waffles on about corruption and he's as bent as Thaksin in his own way! and as you say, most people have drunk at that trough to some extent..But something I've been thinking of, help me out here.. This unelected "people's council", who decides who it's made up of, or do they vote for the people...... lol I always thought a people's council was the ones elected by the people, you know, the government!

Chiangmai, I don't need you to tell me that my 25 years here does not entitle me to a comment. Sutep is only second to Taksin in corrupt power. His bitch is that the Dems have not truely been elected in in 18 years. Failed policies and failure to govern when it was handed to them by the Army. So Sutep gets poorer and poorer sitting on the position bench. So you think this is all about honor, loyalty, want of an uncorrupted government, he has had his day. Hahahah, I laugh in your face!

[Stradavarius37]

 

 

SNIP~~~~~~~~~

 

 

Unblemished? You'll be lucky, find me some one on the planet who is still alive that is!

 

Exactly that Chiang Mai, he waffles on about corruption and he's as bent as Thaksin in his own way! and as you say, most people have drunk at that trough to some extent..But something I've been thinking of, help me out here.. This unelected "people's council", who decides who it's made up of, or do they vote for the people...... lol I always thought a people's council was the ones elected by the people, you know, the government!

 

 

Chiangmai, I don't need you to tell me that my 25 years here does not entitle me to a comment.  Sutep is only second to Taksin in corrupt power. His bitch is that the Dems have not truely been elected in in 18 years. Failed policies and failure to govern when it was handed to them by the Army. So Sutep gets poorer and poorer sitting on the position bench. So you think this is all about honor, loyalty, want of an uncorrupted government, he has had his day.   Hahahah, I laugh in your face!

 

Classy post of the day!!!

[EyesWideOpen]

I like the photo. Reminds me of old Germany.

Wrong hand......

[Timwin]

While it is certainly true that there is corruption on both sides (in this case the PTP and Democrats), any reasonable look at the hundreds of billions being funneled away and lost in the rice pledging scheme (to name one example) dwarfs any program the Democrats ran that had corruption issues. Both sides being corrupt does not mean that one side cannot be MORE corrupt.

3) The Yellow Shirt Label - most of the reasoned, thoughtful news posters are well informed, polite, and welcome open and honest discourse

HA HA HA! What a load of BS! Would you care to explain then the HUGE jump in the corruption index 2006-2008? The ranking was 60 in the 2006 and jumped to 83 by 2008. Now it is over 100. Both sides are pretty much equally corrupt.

Now Mr. Suthep wants to transfer power to some UNELECTED people's commission?! How is that democratic?!

[marstons]

As an active participant in TV for over 8 years, especially in the news forum, I have come to witness an interesting phenomenon. During times of political crisis (2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013), there appears a very curious strain of poster on the TV News Forum - the TV Red Shirts. These posters seem to spring up to "pop off" only during these times of crisis, and them just as quickly fade away after the crisis settles. The are characterized by a few noticeable traits.

1) Denial - They will never say anything bad about Thaksin, Pheu Thai Party, or the Red Shirt movement, regardless of any fact or argument presented. In fact, their typical reaction is the classic "ignore, and the misdirect". They refuse to discuss or debate, but instead rely soley yelling their point again and again, ad nauseum. This type of poster who only sees their side as "all right" and the other side as "all wrong" make most of the news threads during crisis times a chore to wade through. It's also a childish worldview to insist that only one side in a discussion is at fault. People who live in this type of "bubble" and profess these beliefs can be found on both sides of the discussion, but the majority are can be found in the TV Redshirt brigade.

2) The False Equivalency - this is a particular favorite of theirs. They like to state that "Both sides" are equally guilty of corruption, malfeasance, etc. While it is certainly true that there is corruption on both sides (in this case the PTP and Democrats), any reasonable look at the hundreds of billions being funneled away and lost in the rice pledging scheme (to name one example) dwarfs any program the Democrats ran that had corruption issues. Both sides being corrupt does not mean that one side cannot be MORE corrupt.

3) The Yellow Shirt Label - most of the reasoned, thoughtful news posters are well informed, polite, and welcome open and honest discourse. This discourse goes out the window during these crisis times. They most common response to a Red Shirt directed criticism is "Well the yellow shirts did this and this and this", as if the poster they are arguing with is a yellow shirt sympathizer. In fact, most the the well-reasoned thoughtful TF news forum debaters do not self identify with either movement, but instead try to look at things through the lens of "Thailand is my adoptive country, and even though I can't vote here, I want it to find sustainable success".

The "If you comment on my post you must be a yellow shirt" is a] worn tired cliche.

4) Name Calling - While any crisis brings out an increased TV readership ("Those "Breaking Alert" things that flood my inbox), the people who pop in, and pop out after the crisis tend to be much more vitriolic, and more willing to offer insults when their comments are commented upon in any negative fashion. I was just called a "<deleted>" by one particularly delightful "Pop-in TV Red Shirt". These folks are certainly good for the TV ad revenue stream, but really don't bring anything tangible to the conversation.

I could go on, but my fingers are tired of typing, and I suspect this will be one of the more interesting threads going forward. Lets see how many of the Crisis "Pop In" TV Red Shirts come to visit, and show us examples from my list lol.

Out of interest what has the post got to do with the Topic ( Suthep rejects House dissolution)

[chiang mai]

Nothing, but he's been here for 25 years so he can talk about what he wants to, even if it's totally irrelevant and complete bolux.

[sfbandung]

That is a fantastic picture of him. Heil Suthep.