BMA-owned CCTVs fail to film grenade thrower

[robblok]

A post from Waza in november I think... pasted under this topic by Crossy too:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/684284-govt-to-restore-control/?p=7081840

There's something fishy in the state of Denmark indeed.

Totally worthless unless we know the location and how long these were covered up.

Red knee jerk reaction.

Its bad if protesters cover it up ... now shown police cover it up at (maybe) an other location.. and no mention of bad things and wondering why police would cover it up.. something like 2 standards.

[Emptyset]

There were photos of police covering cameras with black plastic in December last year prior to the first protest.

Yeah, but police removed their covers after BMA complained. Also seen pictures of protesters covering them. Don't know why, but it seems to be standard practice (red shirts also did it). I wouldn't assume anything necessarily untoward wrt to the grenade attack. They probably just do it because they think police will spy on them, not because they think someone on their own side is going to bomb them. Or if they have to use weapons etc. There's a lot of things they wouldn't want caught on camera, lot of reasons to do it other than the conspiracy bombing angle.

I agree, it would appear to be SOP -- but you can't rag on the police for not providing adequate security when you are disabling the best security you have against kind of attacks the occurred on Sunday. It's being irresponsible to the people attending the rally. Leave them uncovered during the rally times and cover them up, again.

Indeed. And I should clarify in case people didn't realize, the above picture is purported to be the protesters' covering the CCTV, not the police. But regardless of pictures, I don't think there's any reason to assume the Bangkok Governor would be lying.

[metisdead]

A post in violation of this forum rule has been removed:

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[Cnxforever]

Probably the cameras have nothing inside???.........has been know to occur here in the LoS

yes a bit like those hand held "bomb detectors" - hahaha......

[diceq]

Totally worthless unless we know the location and how long these were covered up.

Red knee jerk reaction.

Its bad if protesters cover it up ... now shown police cover it up at (maybe) an other location.. and no mention of bad things and wondering why police would cover it up.. something like 2 standards.

I never said it was good or bad. I said it was completely worthless unless it was the same location. What I want to know who covered up the cameras at Victory Monument and when.

[robblok]

Totally worthless unless we know the location and how long these were covered up.

Red knee jerk reaction.

Its bad if protesters cover it up ... now shown police cover it up at (maybe) an other location.. and no mention of bad things and wondering why police would cover it up.. something like 2 standards.

I never said it was good or bad. I said it was completely worthless unless it was the same location. What I want to know who covered up the cameras at Victory Monument and when.

That would be a good thing to know.. and I would agree that if it happened real recent it could be incriminating. Though of course no absolute proof.

[Emptyset]

Totally worthless unless we know the location and how long these were covered up.

Red knee jerk reaction.

Its bad if protesters cover it up ... now shown police cover it up at (maybe) an other location.. and no mention of bad things and wondering why police would cover it up.. something like 2 standards.

I never said it was good or bad. I said it was completely worthless unless it was the same location. What I want to know who covered up the cameras at Victory Monument and when.

That would be a good thing to know.. and I would agree that if it happened real recent it could be incriminating. Though of course no absolute proof.

There's no real reason to doubt what the Bangkok govt says. Like I say, protesters often cover or disable the CCTV. They don't want to be spied upon. I really doubt it has anything to do with the grenade attack though.

This purports to show them disabling CCTV on Rajaprasong on the evening of the 12th, just after they'd taken the area:

So they probably did it all pretty much as soon as they'd set up shop in these places. SOP, as another poster said.

[diceq]

They don't want to be spied upon.

If they are peaceful protesters they should have nothing to hide. If they think the police are registering everyone who partakes in the protests they are extremely paranoid.

[casualbiker]

They don't want to be spied upon.

If they are peaceful protesters they should have nothing to hide. If they think the police are registering everyone who partakes in the protests they are extremely paranoid.

And they are paranoid for a reason when CAPO and the government threaten and actually have frozen bank accounts etc of Protest supporters.

a picture of someone holding a knife would look good until you watched more and realised they were just cutting up vegetables for their dinner....

[FangFerang]

Why has not any of the other newspapers quoted the Bangkok Governor? Khaosod is not a pinnacle of reporting, but the laws here would make it a criminal act to make the statement up.....

Curious

[fab4]

Red knee jerk reaction.

Its bad if protesters cover it up ... now shown police cover it up at (maybe) an other location.. and no mention of bad things and wondering why police would cover it up.. something like 2 standards.

I never said it was good or bad. I said it was completely worthless unless it was the same location. What I want to know who covered up the cameras at Victory Monument and when.

That would be a good thing to know.. and I would agree that if it happened real recent it could be incriminating. Though of course no absolute proof.

There's no real reason to doubt what the Bangkok govt says. Like I say, protesters often cover or disable the CCTV. They don't want to be spied upon. I really doubt it has anything to do with the grenade attack though.

This purports to show them disabling CCTV on Rajaprasong on the evening of the 12th, just after they'd taken the area:

So they probably did it all pretty much as soon as they'd set up shop in these places. SOP, as another poster said.

And this video taken on Dec 12th at Government House

http://www.itnsource.com/en/shotlist//RTV/2013/12/12/RTV121213063/

[FangFerang]

Interesting, since this post and photos http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/684284-govt-to-restore-control/?p=7081840 suggest it was someone else that covered the CCTV.

Whooops... as another straw crumbles in the conspiracist's hand.

Why did the BMA governor, a supporter of the Democrats, and no friend to the police, say "The protesters covered the cameras up."

[Emptyset]

Why has not any of the other newspapers quoted the Bangkok Governor? Khaosod is not a pinnacle of reporting, but the laws here would make it a criminal act to make the statement up.....

Curious

I find Khaosod's reports a lot less muddled than The Nation's reporting often is. It's definitely red leaning but like you say, they don't just make up interviews etc. I don't think The Nation does either, they just focus on what fits their slant, choosing quotes that fit with the narrative whilst eliding those that don't.

[Emptyset]

They don't want to be spied upon.

If they are peaceful protesters they should have nothing to hide. If they think the police are registering everyone who partakes in the protests they are extremely paranoid.

They likely think cameras will show their security arrangements, clear pictures of the guards etc. Main reason is if police try to disperse them and they use weapons - even if it's just molotovs and bats etc - they wouldn't want the images being used. Not saying that I think they're peaceful (they are for now, but won't be if police try to disperse them) or that some of the guards aren't shady. But I don't think it's such a major thing. If I were running the protests I'd do the same. Only thing is, in attacks like this, it works against them. It was sheer chance the guy happened to walk into the place with its own CCTV...

[bluebluewater]

I think VERY funny.

There is really NO need to bag those things as 90% of them don't even have a camera in them! The money was stolen and no camera's were put in place.

[robblok]

They don't want to be spied upon.

If they are peaceful protesters they should have nothing to hide. If they think the police are registering everyone who partakes in the protests they are extremely paranoid.

They likely think cameras will show their security arrangements, clear pictures of the guards etc. Main reason is if police try to disperse them and they use weapons - even if it's just molotovs and bats etc - they wouldn't want the images being used. Not saying that I think they're peaceful (they are for now, but won't be if police try to disperse them) or that some of the guards aren't shady. But I don't think it's such a major thing. If I were running the protests I'd do the same. Only thing is, in attacks like this, it works against them. It was sheer chance the guy happened to walk into the place with its own CCTV...

Great post from an person i would not have expected it from.

[diceq]

They likely think cameras will show their security arrangements, clear pictures of the guards etc. Main reason is if police try to disperse them and they use weapons - even if it's just molotovs and bats etc - they wouldn't want the images being used. Not saying that I think they're peaceful (they are for now, but won't be if police try to disperse them) or that some of the guards aren't shady. But I don't think it's such a major thing. If I were running the protests I'd do the same.

But you accuse the reds for being violent when they are dispersed and/or attacked. A tad hypocritical don't you think?

[casualbiker]

They don't want to be spied upon.

If they are peaceful protesters they should have nothing to hide. If they think the police are registering everyone who partakes in the protests they are extremely paranoid.

They likely think cameras will show their security arrangements, clear pictures of the guards etc. Main reason is if police try to disperse them and they use weapons - even if it's just molotovs and bats etc - they wouldn't want the images being used. Not saying that I think they're peaceful (they are for now, but won't be if police try to disperse them) or that some of the guards aren't shady. But I don't think it's such a major thing. If I were running the protests I'd do the same. Only thing is, in attacks like this, it works against them. It was sheer chance the guy happened to walk into the place with its own CCTV...

I would LOVE to see a picture of that alley that the guy throwing the grenade was in.. most of the time shop CCTV are very visual to act as a deterrent. The guy looked like he walked up and down the alley.. but never noticed the camera! Any one else see the weak link especially as that self same video/stills with navy seal add ons was all other the net in a matter of hours.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Khaosod comes out with another ridiculous headline, implying that the BMA is at fault.

It should read "Anti government protesters block BMA CCTV cameras resulting in no footage of grenade attack"

I wish Thai Visa would consider not posting articles from this source,

If it makes you feel better, I feel the same about The Nation.

(And no shortage of their articles here. )

[surangw]

I always figured they were the fake cameras, like some businesses ( that are too cheep to buy real systems) place about to cut back on shoplifting.

[BeforeTigers]

Right, because it's impossible that plain-clothed terrorists walking among the demonstrators could have had accomplices among the protesters, covering cameras in the guise of demonstrators to cover an attack that they would have anticipated.

See, this is fun.
You dont have to have any information at all to dream up a plausible conspiracy theory. heh.
Makes me wonder why people put in so much effort to make implausible ones.

Edited January 20, 2014 by BeforeTigers

[backtonormal]

Oh dear oh dear oh dear. Why would PDRC not want pics of them being shot at and bombed.

Lots of photos of cameras with black bags on them.

Just seen (real life) white shirts going off to somewhere. V middle class, nice cars etc. Hope they put an end to this thuggery.

Anybody fancy holiday in Sutheps thuggish heartland? Lot of nasty pics of armed guards strutting about. But, the army seem to like this image of thailand photo'd and sent around the world... Who are we to argue.

Police done all they can in this I woud say. Obstructions, lies, red-herrings, cameras with bags on, late route changes, Army and thugs trampling crime scene.

Done more than enough. Certainly enough to keep the Army from coming in

There were photos of police covering cameras with black plastic in December last year prior to the first protest.

If you dont have links to that please edit your post

[backtonormal]

Interesting, since this post and photos http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/684284-govt-to-restore-control/?p=7081840 suggest it was someone else that covered the CCTV.

moderator to the yellows rescue...phew

[fab4]

Why has not any of the other newspapers quoted the Bangkok Governor? Khaosod is not a pinnacle of reporting, but the laws here would make it a criminal act to make the statement up.....

Curious

I find Khaosod's reports a lot less muddled than The Nation's reporting often is. It's definitely red leaning but like you say, they don't just make up interviews etc. I don't think The Nation does either, they just focus on what fits their slant, choosing quotes that fit with the narrative whilst eliding those that don't.

"they don't just make up interviews etc. I don't think The Nation does either, "

I wouldn't be so sure about the Nation, as even the other english language newspaper was caught out making up interviews last August. From the International Media Ethics News,

International Media Ethics News :

Daily Media Pick

Bangkok Post Retracts Front-page Story, Faked Quotes from Former Prime Minister

By: Sydney Smith

August 12, 2013 05:00 AM EST

http://www.imediaethics.org/News/4086/Bangkok_post_retracts_front-page_story__faked_quotes_from_former_prime_minister.php

[fab4]

Interesting, since this post and photos http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/684284-govt-to-restore-control/?p=7081840 suggest it was someone else that covered the CCTV.

moderator to the yellows rescue...phew

Mmm, interesting. This was the photo referred to in Crossys link

Now presumably there is a video to accompany these still shots. Then one could categorically state that the police on the portable ladder were putting the black bag over the camera or taking it off of the camera.

Not exactly definitive proof is it, a still camera shot. Whereas this, http://www.itnsource.com/en/shotlist//RTV/2013/12/12/RTV121213063/ is - unfortunately it shows protesters covering up the cameras.

Just a thought, Devils advocate and all that...................

[icommunity]

Those security cameras were covered back in December and there were pictures circulation around the demonstrator facebook pages etc.... They were not being covered by the protesters, they were being covered by either someone from a government agency or by the police. This was 2 days before the teargas and water cannon battles happened.

The protesters were complaining that they were being covered up because the police wanted to shoot at them with live bullets.... which of course they did.

But then again, another Khaosod anti-protest report.

Did the interview even happen? One has to ask oneself.

Would you like to share the pictures circulation around the demonstrator's FB pages etc so that we know where are those poisonous news? Thanks.

[whybother]

There were photos of police covering cameras with black plastic in December last year prior to the first protest.

If you dont have links to that please edit your post

Also an article in Phuketwan (which I am not allowed to link to) titled "Bangkok cameras being killed. Will protesters be next?"

[whybother]

Interesting, since this post and photos http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/684284-govt-to-restore-control/?p=7081840 suggest it was someone else that covered the CCTV.

moderator to the yellows rescue...phew

Mmm, interesting. This was the photo referred to in Crossys link

<snipped photos>

Now presumably there is a video to accompany these still shots. Then one could categorically state that the police on the portable ladder were putting the black bag over the camera or taking it off of the camera.

Not exactly definitive proof is it, a still camera shot. Whereas this, http://www.itnsource.com/en/shotlist//RTV/2013/12/12/RTV121213063/ is - unfortunately it shows protesters covering up the cameras.

Just a thought, Devils advocate and all that...................

See my post above.

[falangadang]

Whilst I'm all for a change in government and improvements to the leadership of Thailand, this has just gone beyond a joke!

From the moment that Suthep started occupying government buildings in the first couple of weeks of the protests he and all other culprits should have been arrested and locked up. Never mind all the baloney about "issuing" arrests, - what about acting upon them?

I'm concerned about a man that professes fairness and transparency in government through real democracy and then sets about covering up all the CTV cameras in the city!

The Thai police and the anti riot squads are a Joke.

Time to stop patronising all of this nonsense and just send the army in to clean it all up!

[wanitcha]

Whilst I'm all for a change in government and improvements to the leadership of Thailand, this has just gone beyond a joke!

From the moment that Suthep started occupying government buildings in the first couple of weeks of the protests he and all other culprits should have been arrested and locked up. Never mind all the baloney about "issuing" arrests, - what about acting upon them?

I'm concerned about a man that professes fairness and transparency in government through real democracy and then sets about covering up all the CTV cameras in the city!

The Thai police and the anti riot squads are a Joke.

Time to stop patronising all of this nonsense and just send the army in to clean it all up!

Not saying that they did but It's not hard to imagine why the protestors would want to cover up all the cameras in their staging area. The current government is obviously being driven into a corner and this cat-and-mouse game is getting more serious by the day. If it holds true that the police force is under Taksin's command, would the PDRC want their staging area and their leaders movements be constantly broadcasted to the 'enemy'? Hell no... The risk of being killed or captured would be far too high. This may have been the only thing that have saved them so far as the 'enemy' have had to send their scouts to the area to pinpoint the location for attack.

The stakes are high and it seems that collateral damage is now acceptable to the current regime... more bloodshed to come I'm afraid :-(