Immigration Crackdown in North-East Thailand

[zac5000]

what about working in hair salons? in Naklua actually.

[SantiSuk]

Judgedread,

Thailand, like many countries, welcomes the independently wealthy of all ages. As I understand it if you put 5 or 10 million* baht in a bank or any other type of investment you will then get a one year investment visa or extension*.

Scared of losing your money? Well if you want to be here long term you can't eat your cake and still have it.

*Not sure which, but the info is around on Thai Visa

[sirchai]

This is not about farangs on visa runs. This is about manual workers coming into Thailand from neighbouring countries. These people come here to work. They are knowingly employed by Thai businesses. Isn't that where the problem lies? I once worked at a place in Samui where the Burmese staff worked seven days a week with no day off, simply because they were Burmese. Everybody else got a day off. This policy was determined by the Thai owner. Curiously the Burmese in question had been there for 7 years. I suppose that will all change as Myanmar opens up and becomes more prosperous. I wonder if they were paid minimum wage?

Which is pretty similar to many European countries after the "iron curtain" fell. MONEY,money and money....

I've seen plenty of guys from Bangladesh, wondering on what type of visa/work permits they are.-

[ubonjoe]

Judgedread,

Thailand, like many countries, welcomes the independently wealthy of all ages. As I understand it if you put 5 or 10 million* baht in a bank or any other type of investment you will then get a one year investment visa or extension*.

Scared of losing your money? Well if you want to be here long term you can't eat your cake and still have it.

*Not sure which, but the info is around on Thai Visa

It is 10 million and part (or all) of that can be for a condo purchase. Money in fixed term accounts, bonds and etc. is ok.

[kerrysum]

but won't all this be relaxed regarding citizens of neighbouring countries when AEC comes into force?

And 40,000 people blacklisted ! WOW that is a phenomenal amount

The AEC is not about letting all citizens of neighbouring countries move around freely or come into Thailand. It's restricted to a select few occupations, nothing to do with the labouring classes.

Are you really serious??????

Please explain your logic......

kilosierra

[SantiSuk]

well this works both ways , i suggest he goes into the NK office and see what goes on .... took my mother to get a re entry visa to visit Laos for a day or so , the old woman immigration officer tried to sell her jewellery , handbags , rings .... what a laugh !!! these are govt officials , meanwhile the farangs ,with real credentials , with real visas, who have family here, get interrogated just to be able to stay .....

u want to fix it !!! CLEAN UP YOUR OWN BACKYARD FIRST !!

Family has NO VALUE in Thailand, if there is a "Mail Farang" as father involved!

Thailand is the most pathetic, racist, and most family-destructive country in the world in this regards.

We should all go home and do the same to Thai, who enjoy a "civilised" family life overseas!

This goes and is, far beyond humanitarian comprehension levels!

What's your beef NHT? Not criticising, just curious. Haven't noticed a problem as a male farang head of a Thai-based family. From my perspective, immigration seems to treat us fine as long as we have the wherewithal to support keeping a Thai family.

Generally speaking the rural parts of Thailand still has family values that have long-since been regrettably destroyed by greed-driven mobility in my home country. Makes me laugh when fellow countrymen come on here berating Isaan for having wives that want to stay close to the blood line and who will take care of their close relatives. They would have society sectioned off into little soul-less distributed boxes with unhapply lonely people abounding. [sorry for that digression!]

[kerrysum]

There is a system in place for citizens from Laos, Cambodia, and Myanmar to work legally in Thailand as labourers.

So how much cheaper does it have to get????

Just a question...... How about a living wage? Oh well the pint is the pound the world around??????

Just a thought....

[GordonP]

What is the unemployment rate in Thailand that they have to worry so much? Sure, throw out all the illegals and you don't have enough workers to do the jobs at hand which results in what? Economically and intellectually vacuous and almost certainly comes from someone who simply feels a need to be seen to be doing something regardless of if it makes any sense whatsoever.

In general... TiT so saying on one hand that they want quality people while doing their best to stop it from happening is the norm. In the mid 2000's rules were changed resulting in 1000s of wealthy people who were spending money hand over fist going to Cambodia. I'm retired now (46) and have had many businesses over the years, some I have run hands on but many I have left for others to run while keeping a controlling interest. Anyone who even considered the idea (OP) would have been immediately dismissed.

That being said.... I love Thailand but would never ever do business here.

Looking around Pattaya at the moment, many workers on the big developments are non-Thai (albeit properly visa'd) and all the cleaning staff at our apartment block are also non-Thai whereas just a year ago all were from Issan. Additionally despite being "quiet" tourist wise there are many vacancies for staff, hotels, bars, restaurants, building sites, etc.etc.

[aveabeeror2]

Well, this will cut Thailand's tourist numbers in half.

Garbage,nothing to do with tourists,they don't do visa runs. It will get rid of the poor farfangs who can't scrape together 800000 bt after a life time of working,or sufficient income for retirement.

[yourauntbob]

"Further investigations found that out of those who regularly re-entered Thailand, large numbers came from neighboring countries such as Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia and Myanmar, with many going to work illegally in factories, restaurants or on construction sites and fishing boats."

They forgot teachers....

So when they stop all these workers from coming in, who is going to clean their houses, work their fishing boats, and build their buildings. Do they really expect Thai people to go do these hard gruling jobs?

[GOLDBUGGY]

but won't all this be relaxed regarding citizens of neighbouring countries when AEC comes into force?

And 40,000 people blacklisted ! WOW that is a phenomenal amount alt=ohmy.png width=20 height=20>

Not Really!

When you take into consideration of all the Tourist that come here each year and that this Blacklist in ongoing for many years, and also were you are Blacklisted for 99 Years, then it is actually a rather small list.

You have a far greater chance of being Murdered here then Blacklisted, as the Murderer Rate is far greater than this here. But you can increase your odds of getting murdered if you are dealing in Drugs, or Child Prostitution here, with Shady People. That also increases your chances of being Blacklisted to, if you get caught by the Police before you are Murdered.

Also understand that being "Deported" and being "Blacklisted" is not the same thing. You can be Deported for Overstaying, but you won't be Blacklisted for this, unless of course it is your One Hundredth Time. If you are wanted by the Police in your own country, or have committed a "Serious Crime" in Thailand, you will be both Deported and Blacklisted.

I highlighted "Serious Crime" because I wanted to make one more point on this. What we may consider and think is not a serious crime, can be in Thailand. Thai's do not take shoplifting or theft of any kind, very lightly. I read a story recently of a British Guy who stole a towel out of his hotel room, as more of a souvenir then wanting to steal a towel. He was caught at the front desk with this towel, when he open his bag to look for his wallet, was held and arrested, and then later thrown in jail, Deported, and Blacklisted.

I think it best for anyone to be on their best behavior here, if they ever want to come back.

[rgs2001uk]

So what are the risks for a foreign person having this description/status:

1. He is a European, age 38 and he lives here in Bangkok... He is unmarried, he rents a nice apartment, he does not own anything here (no condo, no car) He has no kids, no permanent girlfriend, etc.

2. He is semi-respectable for a resident "sex-tourist" type... he is very clean-cut, dresses conservatively, no tattoos, no piercings, he does not drink or smoke, and he's never been in any trouble for anything. He presents a very 'clean' image, perhaps almost unusually so for a European guy his age.

3. He is independently wealthy and he does not work.

4. He goes in and out every 30-days, VOA, and he always flies in and out through swampyboom, and he always stays over night offshore one-night or two-nights where ever he goes, Singapore, Hong Kong, Beijing, Tokyo, etc.

Technically, he fits the definition of a foreigner who lives here in LOS on tourist visas. However, he is squeaky-clean and he does not work here. Additionally, he is not making "border runs", per se... (there is always a one-day or two-day offshore break between the exit and the re-entry visa stamps)

However, I'm wondering, what are his risks? On the one hand there is the literal reading of the Thai immigration rules versus how we think it is being enforced.

Comments? Advice?

He is independently wealthy

Has he considered an "investment visa"?

Think they cost about 10 million baht.

http://www.thaivisa.com/investment-visa.html

[ubonjoe]

A derogatory and inflammatory post removed along with a quote of it removed.

[AloisAmrein]

Who of a western country would be so stupid to come to Thailand for working? Except for a multinational and to be paid a salary salary like at home? Malaysia is much better, but even there the salaries are not competitive. The only place to consider is Singapore, but live quality is low there.

[realenglish1]

Thailand has draconian immigration rules. Most other countries encourage people who have the right credentials to come and enrich that society and its people.

There is no enrichment in Thailand no future Nothing other than come and spend your money Then go away

Wonder what the United States England or even France would be like if they just told their emigrants and not emigrants to take a hike. I love Thailand but Thailand must learn to treat their foreigners with respect.

Just one question. What would happen to Thailand if all the foreign country businesses and their foreigners decided to pick up and leave.

I rest my case

[mrdome]

He is not getting tourist visas or a VOA he is getting visa exempt entries.

What he is doing is not a problem at all and there are many doing it.

They entire thing is about people working here illegally or involved in other illegal activities.

This is not correct, unfortunately. The wording clearly talks about these types of long term stayers on visa runs. No illegal work needs to be involved.

But we have had this campaign so many times, it comes and it goes.

[AloisAmrein]

but won't all this be relaxed regarding citizens of neighbouring countries when AEC comes into force?

And 40,000 people blacklisted ! WOW that is a phenomenal amount

The AEC is not about letting all citizens of neighbouring countries move around freely or come into Thailand. It's restricted to a select few occupations, nothing to do with the labouring classes.

True - I highly doubt that the AEC will ever come close to the free movement of labour model seen in Europe. On day one, the disparities in national wealth and population demographics would be just too great. Just compare Laos and Singapore. So you're quite right ... a lot of people here tend to overplay the importance of the AEC.

Just compare Montenegro, Portugal, Serbia, Greece with Switzerland... the same in Europe!

[KhaoNiaw]

but won't all this be relaxed regarding citizens of neighbouring countries when AEC comes into force?

And 40,000 people blacklisted ! WOW that is a phenomenal amount

The AEC is not about letting all citizens of neighbouring countries move around freely or come into Thailand. It's restricted to a select few occupations, nothing to do with the labouring classes.

Are you really serious??????

Please explain your logic......

kilosierra

It's not about logic. There's never been any questions of just opening borders to freedom of movement for all.

Initially the only occupations that will be part of this are medical practitioners, dental practitioners, nursing services, engineering services, architectural services, surveying services, accountancy services, hotel and tourism service. Anyone from these occupations wanting to work in another ASEAN country will need to have an ASEAN-recognised qualification in the field.

[ubonjoe]

He is not getting tourist visas or a VOA he is getting visa exempt entries.

What he is doing is not a problem at all and there are many doing it.

They entire thing is about people working here illegally or involved in other illegal activities.

This is not correct, unfortunately. The wording clearly talks about these types of long term stayers on visa runs. No illegal work needs to be involved.

But we have had this campaign so many times, it comes and it goes.

The person mentioned in the reply I was responding to is leaving and returning by air and spending time outside Thailand when they do it,

Which is not the same as making serial border runs every 15 days like many do because the can't take time off from their illegal work to make a visa run for a visa.

[Tony125]

Why not simply allow every person ONE extension / visa run PER YEAR - problem solved or is this solution to difficult to implement?

I believe there is already a rule that tourists visas can only be used for six months out of any twelve month period. As with everything else, sometimes it is reasonably strictly enforced and sometimes not at all.

You are wrong ,those are old rules:

Beyond 90 Days

Visitors can now enjoy Thailand more

A dose of good news awaits tourists—following the new regulation set by Thai Immigration, visitors can now come regularly to Thailand without limiting their stay within a total of 90 days in a six-month period.

The restriction has already been abolished so tourists can now visit Thailand as often as they want, provided that they obtain 30 day Visa on Arrival at airports and 15 day Visa on Arrival if they are traveling via land borders.

However, immigration officials still recommend getting visas prior to arrival in Thailand, as they remind visitors that back-to-back short visas are not the proper way to extend the stay in the country on a long-term basis.

This new regulation is predicted to greatly benefit travel agencies as more border trips are expected to be booked with the increased influx of tourists eager to renew their visas.

As of Nov 1st 2013 if you are a citizen of 1 of the G-7 countries (The

United States, Canada, Great Britain, Japan, Germany, France and Italy

) and you cross into Thailand by land border you will be given 30 day

visa not the previous 15 day.

[rgs2001uk]

but won't all this be relaxed regarding citizens of neighbouring countries when AEC comes into force?

And 40,000 people blacklisted ! WOW that is a phenomenal amount

The AEC is not about letting all citizens of neighbouring countries move around freely or come into Thailand. It's restricted to a select few occupations, nothing to do with the labouring classes.

Are you really serious??????

Please explain your logic......

kilosierra

It's not about logic. There's never been any questions of just opening borders to freedom of movement for all.

Initially the only occupations that will be part of this are medical practitioners, dental practitioners, nursing services, engineering services, architectural services, surveying services, accountancy services, hotel and tourism service. Anyone from these occupations wanting to work in another ASEAN country will need to have an ASEAN-recognised qualification in the field.

"sticky rice"

I agree with everything you say, I watched a programme about this recently on the telly.

The one bit you missed is, even with an ASEAN recognised qualification, the person will still need to be issued with a Thai license.

The programme I watched was talking about architects who would need to be Thai qualified before they could start working here.

[ubonjoe]

Off topic posts removed.

[transam]

I know two guys that have been using tourist visas for years to earn a living.

One teaches hi-so Thai kids privately, one is setting up a business for his Thai bird and himself , not married.

How they have got away with it is beyond me but perhaps now a ''spark'' has appeared in an immigration head.

[jpduggan]

''with some foreign nationals re-entering the country as many as 60 times, each for a duration of between 15 and 30 days.''At this rate Thai tourist figures may as well be thrown in the trash because if there are so many foreigners coming as ''tourists''but are actually working illegally then they are in the statistics as 12 to 24 tourists per year which begs the question as to how many tourists are really visiting Thailand.

[ubonjoe]

A comment about moderation has been removed.

[Docno]

but won't all this be relaxed regarding citizens of neighbouring countries when AEC comes into force?

And 40,000 people blacklisted ! WOW that is a phenomenal amount

The AEC is not about letting all citizens of neighbouring countries move around freely or come into Thailand. It's restricted to a select few occupations, nothing to do with the labouring classes.

True - I highly doubt that the AEC will ever come close to the free movement of labour model seen in Europe. On day one, the disparities in national wealth and population demographics would be just too great. Just compare Laos and Singapore. So you're quite right ... a lot of people here tend to overplay the importance of the AEC.

Just compare Montenegro, Portugal, Serbia, Greece with Switzerland... the same in Europe!

Different magnitude entirely. Singapore is one of the richest nations in the world while Laos and Cambodia are two of the poorest.... nothing to that extent in Europe (and, BTW, Switzerland is not formally part of the EU). Then you get the demographic issues, which include huge differences in population densities (Singapore versus Laos again) and greater cultural and ethnic variation than you see in Europe. Singapore is already introducing policies to reduce foreign labour as its population becomes increasingly xenophobic, and there are recent indications that Malaysia is moving in a similar direction.

[Timwin]

Thai companies employ a lot of illegals because they are cheap and do not dare to complain about the harsh working conditions. It is all about money. I have seen it in nearby condo construction site.

First, they were quite many raids by the police and Cambodians/Laotian people were taken away often but all of sudden those raids stopped! Wonder why...one has to remember Thailand in the Transparency International corruption index is in the same category with countries like Mexico and Jamaica.

[Lucie]

I think it is obvious this is referring to Laos and Myanmar workers, as the translation probably comes from "dung-dao" which means effectively "alien" which could translate to mean farang or Asian worker... at 40k, this means the later, not westerners!

It's obviously primarily aimed at the workers from Laos and Burma, yes, but it will be used on everyone. We're already feeling the pinch here in Ubon - the immigration office is being arsey about things that have previously been overlooked. I'm completely legal and above board, but they still try to find ways to apply every single law and directive ever issued in order to make me feel suitably humbled.

[VINCENT2012]

they said: all foreign nationals will be screened if they have entered Thailand four or more times without sufficient reason.

well i am going to give them a good reason !!

what about a person who is married but don't have the 400 000 baths in a bank anymore because he spend his money . to live, to build a house, to buy a car, suport an entire wife's family.....and perhaps lost also money trying to make a business with his wife.

so now what can this person do legaly ?...... apart going back home and loose everything, wife included or .......try to get tourist visas as many as he can, if he saw a failure in the burocratic thai system .

is it normal or human that a government separate a man from his wife for the only reason , he hasn't got enough money .....to them ?

i don't say the thais have to help economicly the farang (they could do sometimes )but if this person is correct and respect the thais and pays for what he need ,........why don't they let them live their life in peace ?

i hope some in the thai government read these post sometimes and rectify, because today, in the 20 th century it is incredible that we still have to see such things, especially in country who receive more than 15 milions visitors a year, and his the third destination of the world.

i am not talking about north corea, i am talking about this thailand where a lot's of people want to go because most of thais are nice people to visit and meet but where the institutions don't follows foreign visitors needs.

if the democracy goes well to burma, this is going to be a very good alternative to thailand, the country is virgin and beautifull , perhaps it's worth change and go with our money somewhere we could be respected and not called every second with the pejorative word "farang".

good day and good night

[Frank James]

If you are here illegally, working illegally, or gaming the system with tourist visas or ED visas, you get no sympathy from me. Do like the rest of us do. Take the time to do it right and you will sleep better at night. I only hope that immigration really does toughen up.

David

You might consider following the great advice in your signature line:

"A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom." — Robert A. Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land (1961)

There's all kinds of people, and they all have situations, and reasons for what they do. And we will all have to answer for our respective individual actions and pay the price. If immigration really does "toughen up", how does that affect you?