Thailand third worst in the world for road deaths; Phuket killing someone every three days

[Larry001]

terryp, on 25 Jan 2014 - 11:11, said:

impulse, on 25 Jan 2014 - 11:06, said:

Just1Voice, on 25 Jan 2014 - 10:49, said:

The majority of road accidents in LOS is due to a lack of "cognitive reasoning" and "common sense" in the gray matter located between Thai ears.

Nope.

You generally get all the safety you can afford... Putting it down to "cognitive reasoning" is pretty racist, huh?

The vast majority of the carnage on Thai roads is due to economic conditions that put so many Thais on motorcycles- which are 20-30x more dangerous per km than a car, and (almost) infinitely more dangerous than walking.

A little poorer, and they'd be riding bicycles or walking. A little richer, and they'd be riding in their own individual seats in cars with seat belts fastened.

I have never read so much <deleted>...so all the idiots who ride the WRONG WAY (cars and bikes) are not to blame, the fools who undertake in Cars bus's and trucks are not to blame , the donkeys that make instant uturns in 6 wheel trucks are not to blame and the flat heads who drive bus's with 1 foot on the brake are well .....not to blame ....

Agree; cannot agree with that crap from Impulse. There are many poorer countries than Thai where even greater number ride motorbikes

[Estrada]

"Phuket Killing Someone Every Three Days"

And that someone is getting fed up!

[belg]

every 100 meter a speed bump and no more lives lost, 100% guaranteed

[NoshowJones]

The majority of road accidents in LOS is due to a lack of "cognitive reasoning" and "common sense" in the gray matter located between Thai ears.

Nope.

You generally get all the safety you can afford... Putting it down to "cognitive reasoning" is pretty racist, huh?

The vast majority of the carnage on Thai roads is due to economic conditions that put so many Thais on motorcycles- which are 20-30x more dangerous per km than a car, and (almost) infinitely more dangerous than walking.

A little poorer, and they'd be riding bicycles or walking. A little richer, and they'd be riding in their own individual seats in cars with seat belts fastened.

And saying it's all because of Thai's riding m/cycles is pretty Bikist I'd say... it's not the M/bikes causing the accidents it's the Car/truck/Bus drivers who are driving around like lunatics smashing into the M/bikes, bicycles, & pedestrians all over Thailand...

I ride my motorbike regularly to the town about 12Ks from my village. It is impossible to ride that journey there and back without halfwit motorcyclists coming down the wrong side of the road.

[Toby Jugg]

You don't start road safety campaigns a week before a busy weekend. It took France and the UK a generation to change drivers' attitudes. "One for the road" (meaning an extra drink) was the custom. Now when a couple go out to dinner one drinks and the other drives. Thailand could make a start by removing obsolete signs like "Slow City Limit" and replacing them with meaningful speed signs where they can be seen.

[NoshowJones]

every 100 meter a speed bump and no more lives lost, 100% guaranteed

Oh really! What about all the lifes that would be lost because emergency vehicles would have to keep slowing down? 100% guaranteed indeed.

[vlietje]

Phuket 144x safer than the rest of Thailand, well done

edit: math skills not what they used to be...

Edited January 25, 2014 by vlietje

[impulse]

The majority of road accidents in LOS is due to a lack of "cognitive reasoning" and "common sense" in the gray matter located between Thai ears.

Nope.

You generally get all the safety you can afford... Putting it down to "cognitive reasoning" is pretty racist, huh?

The vast majority of the carnage on Thai roads is due to economic conditions that put so many Thais on motorcycles- which are 20-30x more dangerous per km than a car, and (almost) infinitely more dangerous than walking.

A little poorer, and they'd be riding bicycles or walking. A little richer, and they'd be riding in their own individual seats in cars with seat belts fastened.

Ever been in Saigon ( HCMC) ?

You will see a LOT more motorbikes, but also a LOT LESS accidents.

It is just the lack of skulls to drive and the complete ignorance of safety, what causes all these accidents in Thailand.

Vietnam has 13 cars per 1000 population (excluding scooters) That's 1,300 per 100,000 population

Thailand has 206 cars per 1000 population (excluding scooters) That's 20,600 per 100,000 population

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cars_per_capita

Vietnam has 24.7 traffic fatalities per 100,000 population, or 24.7 fatalities per 1,300 cars which is 0.019 fatalities per car.

Thailand has 38.1 traffic fatalities per 100,000 population, or 38.1 fatalities per 20,600 cars, which is 0.00185 fatalities per car. That's about 1/10 the fatalities per car that Vietnam has. If you assume the ratio of scooters to cars is about the same, that doesn't paint a rosy picture of traffic safety in Vietnam.

Vietnam's traffic fatalities are lower because of economics- fewer vehicles on the road per 100,000 population but a lot more dangerous to actually get into one. But don't let facts get in the way. You go ahead and keep bashing the Thais.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

Edited January 25, 2014 by impulse

[impulse]

terryp, on 25 Jan 2014 - 11:11, said:

impulse, on 25 Jan 2014 - 11:06, said:

Just1Voice, on 25 Jan 2014 - 10:49, said:

The majority of road accidents in LOS is due to a lack of "cognitive reasoning" and "common sense" in the gray matter located between Thai ears.

Nope.

You generally get all the safety you can afford... Putting it down to "cognitive reasoning" is pretty racist, huh?

The vast majority of the carnage on Thai roads is due to economic conditions that put so many Thais on motorcycles- which are 20-30x more dangerous per km than a car, and (almost) infinitely more dangerous than walking.

A little poorer, and they'd be riding bicycles or walking. A little richer, and they'd be riding in their own individual seats in cars with seat belts fastened.

I have never read so much <deleted>...so all the idiots who ride the WRONG WAY (cars and bikes) are not to blame, the fools who undertake in Cars bus's and trucks are not to blame , the donkeys that make instant uturns in 6 wheel trucks are not to blame and the flat heads who drive bus's with 1 foot on the brake are well .....not to blame ....

Agree; cannot agree with that crap from Impulse. There are many poorer countries than Thai where even greater number ride motorbikes

And in poorer countries (Vietnam for example), they have fewer scooters per 100,000 population, and (not surprisingly) fewer scooter deaths per 100,000 population. I'd be interested to see the deaths per billion km driven, but most countries don't publish those numbers, and I'm not willing to scour the interweb to do the math myself. Nor am I willing to toss out blanket judgments on driving skills based on air extracted numbers.

Edited January 25, 2014 by impulse

[sprq]

I had to renew my driving licence this month and found that the first thing I had to do was watch a road safety film in a video lounge along with many other licence seekers. This was a new thing, not being done on my two previous applications. It was well made with congenial actors and an effective presenter, and it was about very useful things like safe distance from the vehicle in front at various speeds, but the specific numbers for speed and distance were printed on screen much too quickly for people to absorb.

The whole thing showed that the authorities are making some effort. But then the three physical tests I had to go through were really Mickey Mouse, or ridiculously vague, showing no progress at all in serious testing. And of course, if you pay the right person, you don't have to do any of this.

[rotary]

This is not going to sit well with the Saudi's. They claim to be top tier in killing folks on the road. This is going to ruin a high cost advertisement program where they claim to be #1.

Edited January 25, 2014 by rotary

[Guitar God]

Here's my observations after driving a car on and off here for a couple years and a short time driving a bike:

Many driverschange lanes without using turn signals or looking first to see if it's clear.

Car have burnt out turn signal, brake and headlight bulbs.

Swerving and changing lanes is preferred to stopping.

Many roads are slick and slippery, poorly lit and poorly marked.

People drive drunk and on ya baa.

Roads where bikes and scooters split lanes the cars are staggered and don't keep in a lane so the scooters have to pass on the left, right and center and can collide with each other.

Many vehicles are poorly maintained and fall apart on the road.

Police are more interested in lining their pockets for imaginary violations rather that catching drunks or getting dangerous vehicles off the street.

A lot of drivers just don't give a <deleted> about anyone else. I've driven a motorcycle regularly since 72 and for the first time in 40 years, a car sideswiped me, passing me in my own lane on the right when I was going the speed limit with my right signal on and approaching a right exit U turn.

Having a real drivers training program would help.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Guitar God

[impulse]

This is not going to sit well with the Saudi's. They claim to be top tier in killing folks on the road. This is going to ruin a high cost advertisement program where they claim to be #1.

I gotta be honest. I figured the Middle East would be much worse than the statistics say:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

Saudi Arabia isn't even close. (Or they're fibbing on the stats)

[rotary]

They claim to be #1 sometimes then I see other ads as top 5. Who really knows. Ha ha

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Just1Voice]

Here's an interesting read: http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/87/5/08-057109/en/

[Andre0720]

''Thailand third worst ''

From what I can see everyday, Thailand has failed to achieved what they try very hard to become,

Failed to become the first worst....

[robertthebruce]

I have lived here in Thailand for nearly 4 years, and really enjoy living here, Great weather, Great quality of Life, beautiful Beaches, where i live, Food fantastic, the list could go on and on...

But my one and only problem, is ''DRIVING'' .. i just hate driving here, either a Car or my Scooter, its just not safe.., they drive so so crazy, and have no regard for life or anyone else..

Sad .....

[impulse]

Here’s another little bit of mathematical masturbation for those of you convinced that we are superior drivers back home:

If Obama were to make things so bad that half of Americans would have to give up their cars and start riding scooters, let’s see how we’d stack up against Thai drivers:

Today, the USA has 33,808 fatalities, or 10.4 per 100,000 people, with a population of 325 million. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate)

If half of Americans were forced by economics to give up their cars, the lucky half who kept their cars would still have 0.5 x 33,808 = 16,904 fatalities.

The half that had to start riding scooters would be expected to have 30x as many fatalities per year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_safety), 16,904 x 30 = 507,120 fatalities.

Total traffic fatalities would be 16,904 + 507,120 = 524,024 per year if we all drove the same number of miles- with half of us on scooters. That would be 161 fatalities per 100,000 population.

With Thailand at 38 fatalities per 100,000 of population (at 80% scooters, not 50%), we’d look like pretty sorry drivers–in spite of our superior driving mojo, if our economic realities forced us to ride scooters instead of cars and pickups and SUV’s. Like economic realities do here in Thailand.

I agree that driving in Thailand is ugly and stressful. I hate it, and never take the car out except when I’m leaving town. My scooter comes out only once a week, and only for a lap around the block just to keep it from seizing up before I face reality and sell it. And Thai driving habits look atrocious to those of us who are accustomed to driving back home. But they really aren’t as bad as some are painting them to be.

(BTW, you like the way I got that Obama dig in there? Seems pretty mandatory here on TV)

Edited January 25, 2014 by impulse

[cardinalblue]

I agree...there is no cause effect in thai mentality so one sees incredibly hush risk driving behaviors: passing blindly going the wrong way changing lanes within intersections not stopping for red lights speeding drinking and driving making turns from middle lanes driving with no lights or parking lights and on and on...

So yes lack of cognitive abilities have to be questioned when there is no presence of regulatory enforcement...

Year after year why can't they connect the dots these check pts of no license no helmet no registration has no correlation to fatality/accident reduction...

I just don't understand why the lack of enforcement is not identified as the main problem...again the lack of believing in cause -effect so yes their cognitive reasoning for decision makers and drivers is flawed or missing...

CB

[Andre0720]

So, according to your mathematics, whatever qualifier you use, if americans would be forced to use motorbikes, they would start driving irresponsibly, and the police would stop enforcing the traffic laws???

[wilcopops]

70% of deaths or there a bouts are motorcyclists.........in a country where resistance to wearing crash-helmets is extremely high. Take away that stat and the picture changes.

One also needs to look at WHICH deaths are included or excluded in these stats and how they are compiled in countries that are compared

[impulse]

So, according to your mathematics, whatever qualifier you use, if americans would be forced to use motorbikes, they would start driving irresponsibly, and the police would stop enforcing the traffic laws???

That logic is so flawed, I won't even address it. Every bit of my point is contained in the statistics I linked.

Point out a significant flaw in my math, or my logic, or get back on the porch.

[wilcopops]

Americans are not a useful yeadstick as they are in fact dreadful drivers - it's just they are far more cosseted by road engineering and regulations.

Putting other drivers (and excluding oneself) as the only reason for road deaths is also a very distorted way of looking at road safety as they are just one of many factors involved.

[wilcopops]

Every time one of these stats appears in the media and is quoted on TV, it results in a glaring display of TV members own ignorance of road safety........

[impulse]

Americans are not a useful yeadstick as they are in fact dreadful drivers - it's just they are far more cosseted by road engineering and regulations.

Putting other drivers (and excluding oneself) as the only reason for road deaths is also a very distorted way of looking at road safety as they are just one of many factors involved.

Then pick a country, any country... You do the math for that one...

[transam]

If the traffic BiB spent 8 hours a day on the streets, nationwide, that they are paid for, the death rate would plummet, noooooooooooo question. BUT, they don't, and the folk in control don't care and don't control their troops. Nothing will change.......................

[zyphodb]

The majority of road accidents in LOS is due to a lack of "cognitive reasoning" and "common sense" in the gray matter located between Thai ears.

Nope.

You generally get all the safety you can afford... Putting it down to "cognitive reasoning" is pretty racist, huh?

The vast majority of the carnage on Thai roads is due to economic conditions that put so many Thais on motorcycles- which are 20-30x more dangerous per km than a car, and (almost) infinitely more dangerous than walking.

A little poorer, and they'd be riding bicycles or walking. A little richer, and they'd be riding in their own individual seats in cars with seat belts fastened.

And saying it's all because of Thai's riding m/cycles is pretty Bikist I'd say... it's not the M/bikes causing the accidents it's the Car/truck/Bus drivers who are driving around like lunatics smashing into the M/bikes, bicycles, & pedestrians all over Thailand...

I ride my motorbike regularly to the town about 12Ks from my village. It is impossible to ride that journey there and back without halfwit motorcyclists coming down the wrong side of the road.

I ride my motorbike 20km to my nearest town with an ATM & it's impossible to ride there & back without halfwit Cars, Pick-ups & Trucks coming down the wrong side of the road, you tell me which is more dangerous???

P.S. I forgot to mention Duk-Duks...

[atyclb]

The majority of road accidents in LOS is due to a lack of "cognitive reasoning" and "common sense" in the gray matter located between Thai ears.

Nope.

You generally get all the safety you can afford... Putting it down to "cognitive reasoning" is pretty racist, huh?

The vast majority of the carnage on Thai roads is due to economic conditions that put so many Thais on motorcycles- which are 20-30x more dangerous per km than a car, and (almost) infinitely more dangerous than walking.

A little poorer, and they'd be riding bicycles or walking. A little richer, and they'd be riding in their own individual seats in cars with seat belts fastened.

Nothing the least "racist" in my post at all, other then in your mind. Simply stating well known facts. Anyone who has been in Thailand for any length of time is well aware that cognitive reasoning is simply NOT a strong point with Thai in general. They think only of themselves, and only for the moment. For the most part, their concept of "the future" only extends until "tomorrow". How many Thai have you ever known that actually admit that something is their fault, or apologize for anything? In over 6 years of living here, I've yet to meet one. I've had construction workers who show up at my house, 2-3 hours later than they were scheduled to of course, and then have to borrow MY tools to do a job for which THEY should have the tools for.

And I completely agree with terryp in regards to what he wrote. In other words, they don't THINK, only act without thinking.

And yet, they're 5 chess moves ahead of a typical westerner in sizing up other people they meet, and their stature relative to those people, and how to best "manage" their relationship with other people.

And a Thai lady with a 4th grade education can take a university educated western guy for everything he has, and send him packing with nothing.

I can assure you, they are thinking. 100% of the time. Different than you and I think, perhaps, but in a manner that fits the requirements of their society- not the one we left back home.

They have done a calculation of the benefit they derive by driving against traffic, weighed against the 1/100,000th of a percent chance they'll be in an accident if they do. Heck, we'd do exactly the same if our nanny upbringings didn't tell us that there's a high % chance of getting caught by the cops- on top of that 1/100,000th of a percent chance of getting into an accident.

And to contend that "cognitive reasoning is simply NOT a strong point with Thai in general" is denigrating an entire society based on inapplicable norms from "back home". That is racist.

# learning to play chess as a universal requirement for schoolchildren is an excellent way to teach the mind how to think ahead, plan, anticipate. unfortunately it seem the % of population playing chess is dismally low.

# western guys that get financially scammed do so out of gullibility, loneliness, emotional factors. love is blind as the saying goes thus that scam is not based upon formal education or lack ther of. also the gals are well versed at the scam having generations of practice already

# not to say economics in a developing country does not come into play relative to road deaths would be incorrect. I cannot disagree with you on that point. lack of enforcement and safety education also come into play. there exists a body of knowledge and objective data from thai scholars / academics, with or without western education that well documents lack of critical thinking skills as the result of their education system. add cheating, corruption lack of accountability and the result is incompetence.

why would this intellectual inability together with societal disregard for rules not carry over to road safety/ driving habits?

motorcyclists with no helmets, or helmets without secured chin straps raise the mortality rate significantly because many can survive and recover short of cranial injury.

what about motorcyclists choose to buy alcohol rather than a 20 baht tail light bulb? or a 150 baht helmet?

if a poster were to say the reason for this intellectual deficit is related to ethnicity or skin color then it would be a racist statement and i would be happy to condemn it. if i said koreans and japanese are organized, efficient, advanced because they are simply korean or japanese and have light complexions, would be racist. their societies have instituted excellent educational standards, expound organization and efficiency.

the average thai often needs a calculator to subtract 50 from 100 or be unable to figure out what 10% of 100 is with or without calculator, astonishingly, according to you have already "done a calculation of the benefit they derive by driving against traffic, weighed against the 1/100,000th of a percent chance they'll be in an accident if they do"

in brand new passenger vans (not poverty related) seat belts are routinely DISABLED

" The quality of our graduates is between mediocre and nearly useless."

" Do we want high quality knowledge workers and members of society or old-fashioned drones in the mold of the early 20^th century?"

http://asiancorrespondent.com/77060/thai-education-failures-part-3-pisa-scores-and-a-challenge-for-the-21st-century/

from a thai woman

"cheating and corruption in all levels of society; incompetence is the sum of our failures" Voranai Vanijaka professor and journalist. google for full article from bangkok newspaper name i cannot mention here due to tv rules.

Edited January 25, 2014 by atyclb

[dominique355]

The majority of road accidents in LOS is due to a lack of "cognitive reasoning" and "common sense" in the gray matter located between Thai ears.

I would like to change that into "lack of spacial awareness".

Most drivers here cannot estimate their own speed, the speed of others and the difference in time and space. That's why so many accidents from overtaking and from misjudging the space and time needed.

Most drivers also think the world ends at their ears, there is strictly nothing behind and hence mirrors are totally useless.

But basically it all comes down to discipline. Is there a Thai word for discipline?

[CapeCobra]

Your not telling us something we already know.

Why is this news to you?