Whole house water filter (resin + carbon) - question

[Sheryl]

I have a carbon and resin filter for the whole house -- 2 large cyclinders one filled with charcoal and one with resin. Now doing a long overdue change of the charcoal and resin.

I found that at the bottom of the resin filter there was a lot of white stones, sort of like sand but larger. Initially I assumed this was the result of precipitation (water has a lot of calcium in it) so I removed it all. But then when I added the prescribed quantity of resin beads it did not fill the cylinder and I am wondering if the white stones are supposed to be there below the resin beads, perhaps to prevent the resin from clogging the water supply?

Does anybody know? I haven't hooked it all back up yet but will need to soon....

Thanks!

[JesseFrank]

Gravel is there indeed to prevent the resin from clogging the the pipes below.

Did you by the way ever regenerate the resin ?

[Sheryl]

Thanks for the quick response. It's what I feared, since I already removed all the gravel and put in the resin, but I still have the gravel so can do though it will be a huge job.

If by regenerate you mean putting in salt, yes.

[JesseFrank]

Thanks for the quick response. It's what I feared, since I already removed all the gravel and put in the resin, but I still have the gravel so can do though it will be a huge job.

If by regenerate you mean putting in salt, yes.

Backwash - fill up with brine - let it soak for 1 hour and backwash again.

Don't know the size of your filter and your water usage, but resin should last for a few years if regenerated.

I have a 50Kg resin filter and need to regenerate every 60 days.

[machans88]

what is the name of this system and cost if ok,do you recommend it

thanks

[Sheryl]

Thanks for the quick response. It's what I feared, since I already removed all the gravel and put in the resin, but I still have the gravel so can do though it will be a huge job.

If by regenerate you mean putting in salt, yes.

Backwash - fill up with brine - let it soak for 1 hour and backwash again.

Don't know the size of your filter and your water usage, but resin should last for a few years if regenerated.

I have a 50Kg resin filter and need to regenerate every 60 days.

It takes 10 bags of resin, so I think much smaller than yours. How often then would it need to be regenerated?

The brine soak is what I have been doing but not as often as I should. At this point the resin & charcoal hadn't been changed for more than 5 years so it was time.

[Sheryl]

what is the name of this system and cost if ok,do you recommend it

thanks

It's British Portacel and from TMD company, they have a website.

The cost (excluding the resin and charcoal) was 4,000 baht but that was 15+ years ago so would be much more now.

What I don't like about what I have is that I have to backflush manually and there isn't an automatic drain channel for it so I have to manually collect and get rid of the dirty water that results, but this last could be addressed through better installation.

I still get some hard water stains in the house even with it. otherwise it's OK. I may go for reverse osmosis next time, will need to replace in a few years time anyhow as the piping, valves etc are all starting to rust.

[JesseFrank]

Thanks for the quick response. It's what I feared, since I already removed all the gravel and put in the resin, but I still have the gravel so can do though it will be a huge job.

If by regenerate you mean putting in salt, yes.

Backwash - fill up with brine - let it soak for 1 hour and backwash again.

Don't know the size of your filter and your water usage, but resin should last for a few years if regenerated.

I have a 50Kg resin filter and need to regenerate every 60 days.

It takes 10 bags of resin, so I think much smaller than yours. How often then would it need to be regenerated?

The brine soak is what I have been doing but not as often as I should. At this point the resin & charcoal hadn't been changed for more than 5 years so it was time.

Difficult to say as it depends on how much water you use and the calcium level.

Test strips or test liquids are normally available at shops that sell water filters, and are inexpensive. A small drip bottle of test liquid that will last a many years is 100 Baht in Pattaya. Normally you test your water once a month, or more often if you prefer.When it indicates that the calcium level is too high you do a regeneration, and it will give you an indication how often you will need to regenerate. As I said, my filter provides a big house, and I regenerate every 60 days as it is set automatic, but I could leave it maybe almost double of that as well.

If no test strips are available, an easy do it yourself test is explained in the link below

http://homerepair.about.com/od/plumbingrepair/ss/testhardwater_2.htm

My 65 liter fiber glass filter ( which can contain 50 liter of resin ) with automatic control valve was 13.500 Baht.

[Sheryl]

Thanks!

[Sheryl]

Difficult to say as it depends on how much water you use and the calcium level.

Test strips or test liquids are normally available at shops that sell water filters, and are inexpensive. A small drip bottle of test liquid that will last a many years is 100 Baht in Pattaya. Normally you test your water once a month, or more often if you prefer.When it indicates that the calcium level is too high you do a regeneration, and it will give you an indication how often you will need to regenerate. As I said, my filter provides a big house, and I regenerate every 60 days as it is set automatic, but I could leave it maybe almost double of that as well.

If no test strips are available, an easy do it yourself test is explained in the link below

http://homerepair.about.com/od/plumbingrepair/ss/testhardwater_2.htm

My 65 liter fiber glass filter ( which can contain 50 liter of resin ) with automatic control valve was 13.500 Baht.

Can I ask where you got it?

And do you have only resin, or also a charcoal filter?

I currently have both. The charcoal section certainly removes vast quantities of orange sludge so perhaps I should stay with that configuration?

The water is from an artesian well and full of calcium, the soil around here is clay-like.

[GinBoy2]

Just curious what advantages you get having charcoal & resin? I currently have a 20kg charcoal which seems to clean up the local water OK. My gauge being that before I installed it, my water sterilization filters would clog in 3 months, now 9-12 months seems to be the norm. What additional deposits is the resin removing, and if anyone has a before and after experience, is it worth the effort?

[JesseFrank]

Difficult to say as it depends on how much water you use and the calcium level.

Test strips or test liquids are normally available at shops that sell water filters, and are inexpensive. A small drip bottle of test liquid that will last a many years is 100 Baht in Pattaya. Normally you test your water once a month, or more often if you prefer.When it indicates that the calcium level is too high you do a regeneration, and it will give you an indication how often you will need to regenerate. As I said, my filter provides a big house, and I regenerate every 60 days as it is set automatic, but I could leave it maybe almost double of that as well.

If no test strips are available, an easy do it yourself test is explained in the link below

http://homerepair.about.com/od/plumbingrepair/ss/testhardwater_2.htm

My 65 liter fiber glass filter ( which can contain 50 liter of resin ) with automatic control valve was 13.500 Baht.

Can I ask where you got it?

And do you have only resin, or also a charcoal filter?

I currently have both. The charcoal section certainly removes vast quantities of orange sludge so perhaps I should stay with that configuration?

The water is from an artesian well and full of calcium, the soil around here is clay-like.

I got it from here

http://www.etpcwater.com/

This are the same beige/grey fiberglass containers you see in those booths in the shopping centers, the valve is from Runxin ( China ),

http://en.run-xin.com/en/products_view.asp?photoid=331

you can buy them on Aliexpress as well. Runxin is a reliable company specialized in filter valves.

My water is also from a deep bore hole. At the moment I have only a sediment cartridge installer before the water-softener, but I have just purchased a similar tank ( 50 liter) with manual regeneration valve for 7500 Baht, and I'm still in doubt if I should use Carbon or Zeolite as filter media.

http://en.run-xin.com/en/products_view.asp?photoid=299

The same filter housing with a manual back wash valve ( no regeneration ) can be had for 7000 Baht at the shop where I bought this time.

http://en.run-xin.com/en/products_view.asp?photoid=291

Keep in mind this is another shop as the one where I bought my softener, but they carry the same product and are better in price.

They have a booth in Big C extra Pattaya.

[JesseFrank]

Just curious what advantages you get having charcoal & resin? I currently have a 20kg charcoal which seems to clean up the local water OK. My gauge being that before I installed it, my water sterilization filters would clog in 3 months, now 9-12 months seems to be the norm. What additional deposits is the resin removing, and if anyone has a before and after experience, is it worth the effort?

Resin removes the calcium ( hardness ) from the water.

[Sheryl]

many thanks Jesse...

[GinBoy2]

Just curious what advantages you get having charcoal & resin? I currently have a 20kg charcoal which seems to clean up the local water OK. My gauge being that before I installed it, my water sterilization filters would clog in 3 months, now 9-12 months seems to be the norm. What additional deposits is the resin removing, and if anyone has a before and after experience, is it worth the effort?

Resin removes the calcium ( hardness ) from the water.

Thanks for the info. Since my water here is a soft as a baby's bottom, don't think it's any help to me.

[beachbuggy]

Does it matter which tank goes first from the supply? Supply - carbon - resin- tank or other way around. Thanks

[Crossy]

9 hours ago, ragabob said:

Does it matter which tank goes first from the supply? Supply - carbon - resin- tank or other way around. Thanks

 

Supply first to take out the big chunks and prevent them from clogging the other units.

 

I put resin next and carbon last as a finishing filter.

[mahjongguy]

As it was explained to me, a properly ionized resin filter will not actually remove calcium but will convert much of it to sodium.  This "softer" water is better for making bubbles and is less likely to form crusty solids in your faucets.

 

Unfortunately, sodium is less healthy than calcium, so the water might (still) be undrinkable. The only practical cure is an RO stage. You can add a small one just to create drinking water if you want but a whole-house RO is not practical nor worthwhile.

 

So, bottom line, if your well water is not high in Total Dissolved Solids (mostly calcium) then the resin filter may be unnecessary and best used for additional carbon instead.

 

If I got any of that wrong, please let me know.

 

 

[thaisail]

1 hour ago, mahjongguy said:

As it was explained to me, a properly ionized resin filter will not actually remove calcium but will convert much of it to sodium.  This "softer" water is better for making bubbles and is less likely to form crusty solids in your faucets.

 

Unfortunately, sodium is less healthy than calcium, so the water might (still) be undrinkable. The only practical cure is an RO stage. You can add a small one just to create drinking water if you want but a whole-house RO is not practical nor worthwhile.

 

So, bottom line, if your well water is not high in Total Dissolved Solids (mostly calcium) then the resin filter may be unnecessary and best used for additional carbon instead.

 

If I got any of that wrong, please let me know.

 

 

Calcium is needed to ballance the PH of the water. RO water can be acidic depending on the final <deleted> reading after the membrane. Some good quality RO systems have added a post filter to raise the PH of the water after the membrane.

 

To make good drinking water you must add calcium. On commercial ships at sea we make water by distilling seawater. We boil the seawater under a very high vacuum into steam and then condense the steam back into pure demineralized water by cooling it. The water after distaltion has a <deleted> (total dissolved solids) of around 2 ppm (parts per million) of sodium. This water is then passed through a dolomite filter to add calcium to balance the PH to around from 6.8 to 7.2 before entering the potable water tanks. From the potable water tanks, the water is pressurized with a pump and passes through a UV sterilizer to kill any bacteria that may grow during storage in the potable water tanks before being pumped through the ship. The UV sterilizer will kill 98% of all the bacteria in the water and so chlorination will still be required to make the water potable according to the World Health Orginazation standard which is minimum 0.2 ppm chlorine. On commercial ships, we rarely chlorinate the water because the crew do not like the taste. 

 

This water once it is through the dolomite filter will not corrode your piping like distilled water does. The pure distilled water is great to replace the water that is lost in a lead acid battery. We also use this water for adding to our boilers and for mixing chemicals like engine cooling water treatment. It is also useful to make coffee as it has no minerals in it. But once the distilled water was been through the dolomite filter and the UV sterilizer, it is the best drinking water you can find. 

 

The other option used mainly on cruise ships is to sterilize the water using silver. This is used instead of the UV sterilizer. The water passes through another tank containing an anode of pure silver. An electrical current is passed through this chamber that controls the corrosion of the silver anode. On the outlet of this system there is a silver content meter which controls the electric current that adds silver to the water to maintain just the right PPM of silver to sterilize the water. The advantage of the silver is that the water remains sterile throughout the ship's water system even in storage. Also chlorination is no longer required. The disadvantage is the the high cost of silver and maintaining the silver sterilizer. 

[Boomer6969]

Took an hour and a half last Sunday to sieve those out from old media, further cleaning still needed...

[Boomer6969]

3 hours ago, mahjongguy said:

remove calcium but will convert much of it to sodium

Man, one cannot convert Calcium to Sodium, these a metals, so it it would require philosopher's stone. Way too complicated, therefore the resin in the filter  captures the calcium which is then remove through a brine backwash.

[mahjongguy]

I should not have said "convert".

 

As calcium is captured by the resin, sodium is released.

 

The problem for me here by the beach is that the well water is already pretty saline. Resin reduces the calcium but actually increases the sodium. It's okay for household use but cannot be made potable without RO filtering. 

 

Fortunately, most of the time there is city water available and it's decent.