NACC set to charge PM Yingluck over rice scheme late Feb

[djjamie]

Not really,

it just means where there's smoke there's fire and they will prosecute.

Yet you and many others on this board continue to lambast anybody for suggesting

"where there's smoke there's fire and they will prosecute"

with respect to abhisit and sutheps murder charges.

Double standards, surely not.

That smoke was coming from Central World.

[peecee]

Total admission of the fact that the Coup is dead.

Long live the weasle Judicial Coup.... 5 rice story of the day is it. Great the media really helping out with the Power grab.

Won't get away with it though.... its 2 decades out of date doing this!!

In most normal countries with a real judicial system, the members talking about the case in public like this would automatically have the case thrown out... Which is what needs to happen to this dumb case.

yes, how dare the courts abide by the laws of thew country and not what the ptp/red shirts tell them to. Thaksin should have been found guilty(as stated by the judge) when he was let off because he was the pm, this time they are not going to make the same mistake. The only ones bitching are the red supporters because it means their demise and that of the ptp, it is great that the courts are finally doing the correct thing, not doing as they are being threatened to do.

Couldnt happen to a nicer person then yl

How many of the airport invaders & nurse killers are doing time?

[Baerboxer]

how many people think she will still actually be here for this, good chance she will do a runner like her brother, we can only hope

I doubt she will do anything. She will simply ignore all their requests for meetings, and not supply any information. Worked with the Ombudsman whose still waiting after more than 2 years. She knows they won't do anything so simply ignores. Only comment likely "I come from election, we democracy".

In the meantime Tarit will be tasked with investigating all NACC members and finding or inventing something to charge them with.

I so hope I'm wrong.

Even Chief Inspector Clouseau could find a hundred things on anyone in the Thai elites. My light-hearted but illustrative post to this thread mocks the fact. The elites do business with one another within each group's own pals, and they do indeed know what scams those in the other elites are up to, have pulled off, are currently trying to pull off.

Who's kidding whom around here?

At least you now see the Shins for what they are. One of the elite clans. The whole problem is because the Shins want total domination and not willing to share with the others. The elites rarely allow one another to be prosecuted or convicted and even on the rare occasions the sentences are laughably light.

However, it does seem that this particular regime have pushed the corruption, arrogance and ignorance of the law beyond the bounds of acceptability. The reaction from the Thai people may have stirred a realization that the old hierarchies, including the clan from the north, of robber barons must go.

Problem is, the doesn't seem to be an emerging group ready to pick up the challenge and hard work required to turn Thailand into a real democracy.

A side issue I know, but wonder if Red Bull boy cast an overseas vote? Wonder if Thaksin did to? He got his passport (illegally) back so maybe he voted too.

[ggold]

Total admission of the fact that the Coup is dead.

Long live the weasle Judicial Coup.... 5 rice story of the day is it. Great the media really helping out with the Power grab.

Won't get away with it though.... its 2 decades out of date doing this!!

In most normal countries with a real judicial system, the members talking about the case in public like this would automatically have the case thrown out... Which is what needs to happen to this dumb case.

come on pipkin you can do better than that!

No, I think he may have peaked with that particular post.

Standard right wing and reactionary supporter tactics. Try to derail, obfuscute or change the subject to something else

What utter bullshit. right wing reactionary tactics?? what planet are you on?

If anything I am taking the piss out of pipkin! That is not obfuscation or changing the subject. That I leave to the likes of yourself and pipkin!

[timewilltell]

Given the huge cover up by the government at every step of the rice scheme, given the repeated warnings it would work, given they are 6 months or more behind with payments and that the payments that have been made have been selectively chosen to areas under PTP and that most went to rich farmers not poor ones many of whom are still waiting for payment. It beggars belief that the scheme was all well thought out, fairly implemented with due diligence. Politicians are simply not THAT stupid.

The corruption is gaping and naked. And if it is not corruption then the PTP are obviously way to stupid to run the country. Either way not fit to govern.

Whether the Democrats or anyone else in the spotlight is fit to govern either is another story, and given the feeble policies and poor performance last time it looks like a bad bet Thailand will get an effective government any time soon. Then again you never know. I just hope a government comes out of this crisis point which can govern for the good of the country and for the good of its people. It is an incredible opportunity for a party that will treat all parts of Thai society equally fairly if only someone had the sense and selflessness to see it.

Edited February 11, 2014 by timewilltell

[godden]

IF ONLY

[hwt]

Frankly, the law enforcement and judicial systems in Thailand have become jokes in the region. Thais should ask themselves why hardly any or no country treats Thaksin as a criminal. And everyone is amused by using a cooking show to remove a prime minister. I guess this NACC action may create yet another joke for others. Thais, especially the so-called educated ones, should divert attention to what makes the country progress. We the neighboring countries are entertained by the seemingly illogical actions and happily grabbing everything that leaves Thailand because they are sick of the dramas.

[djjamie]

It will be interesting to see how creative NACC can be to find the administration guilty of any corruption when 1) almost no rice has been sold, and 2) the government has no funds to pay for for the unsold rice. Just exactly where does the corruption aspect come in? China cancels a large order because of Suthep's prolonged protests, the government has no ability to finance rice purchases because of lack of authority under interim goverance, and has offred farmers to take back their rice to sell it for themselves. What proceeds that have been received largely (70%) benefit the high and middle income class farmers. It seems what people are calling "corruption" is that the rice program failed in its objectives. How is that criminal?

The PTP commerce minister stated "China cancelled an order for 1.2 million tonnes of rice due to a corruption probe" China stated they cancelled an order for 1.2 million tones due to a corruption probe. You state it is because of Suthep.

​So with this trend of blatant lying and making up the truth I don't really need to spend any energy on your other swell little stories then.

[tingtongteesood]

Total admission of the fact that the Coup is dead.

Long live the weasle Judicial Coup.... 5 rice story of the day is it. Great the media really helping out with the Power grab.

Won't get away with it though.... its 2 decades out of date doing this!!

In most normal countries with a real judicial system, the members talking about the case in public like this would automatically have the case thrown out... Which is what needs to happen to this dumb case.

No coup here, just a government agency at least on the surface seeming to do its job free of outside influence. You really believe the 'weasle' Taksin is good ? You really believe Yinglack has done her best to do what is right for the country and not spent her whole time obfuscating, avoiding responsibility and trying to claim nothing that goes wrong is ever anything to do with her ? Hard to believe people can blindly back a government of crime and corruption with a straight face. I guess you must be from one of the families that benefitted from the rice scam or else what else do you have to gain from your blind faith in the criminals ?

[Crushdepth]

Total admission of the fact that the Coup is dead.

Long live the weasle Judicial Coup.... 5 rice story of the day is it. Great the media really helping out with the Power grab.

Won't get away with it though.... its 2 decades out of date doing this!!

In most normal countries with a real judicial system, the members talking about the case in public like this would automatically have the case thrown out... Which is what needs to happen to this dumb case.

Rave all you want, she's going down over the rice scheme. Corruption aside, it is easily the most spectacular example of incompetence and abject negligence in Thailand's recent history. It's still got a long way to run too.

Here's a nice summary of what's wrong with the rice scheme, from the Thailand Development Research Institute.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Crushdepth

[tingtongteesood]

Not really,

it just means where there's smoke there's fire and they will prosecute.

Yet you and many others on this board continue to lambast anybody for suggesting

"where there's smoke there's fire and they will prosecute"

with respect to abhisit and sutheps murder charges.

Double standards, surely not.

another red sheeple trying to compare apples to oranges. If you have a recording of Abisit or Suteb saying 'Go and murder protestors' or you have video of them with guns in THEIR hands shooting at protestors, then the murder thing could be right, then we are talking a bit more similarly. Otherwise it is, as the non brainwashed ( and I use 'brain' loosely in many cases in here ) red sheeple know all a crock of crap designed to strong arm them into agreeing to the bs amnesty bill to save their own hides. Unfortunately for PT those 2 have more integrity than the entire PT gang of crooks and cronies and decided to fight it as they have faith in the democratic system and they know it will be thrown out for lack of evidence. Shame PT and co. keep trying to pervert the system for their own ends...

[Baerboxer]

So if you can't beat them legally in an election, trump up charges and run them out of office if not the country.

She may have been a supporter of this stupid rice pledging, but I seriously doubt (with everyone looking) she had her hand in the cookie jar. As someone else said, this is just a judicial "coup".

You don't think so. Read Forbes, where in an article her criminal brother freely admits to receiving money.

Why do you think the charges are "trumped" up? Massive amounts of money seems unaccounted for, inventory records seem lapse at best and only a small % of the cost of the scheme has reached the farmers, The finance lady Supa who spoke out against this was removed from her post, investigated and treated like shit rather than being thanked for her diligence. Very Stalin like behavior. Why do you think PTP acted like this rather than thanking her and urgently investigating.

How much money has gone to overseas bank accounts? Why are 20 PTP seniors supposedly partying with Thaksin in Myamar at time of national crisis (his sister declared it an SOE)?

Judicial coup - <deleted>. That's just the PTP supporters' lame attempt at trying to smear an investigation into their corrupt activities which may find things they'd rather keep secret.

Arrogance and a belief they are above the law and can do what ever they want makes people not care about who sees them. The forged export documents, linked to a company owned by certain PTP married members, should prove interesting.

This is going to be an interesting case - but to dismiss it as a political judicial coup is plain <deleted>. If they are innocent then no charges will be brought. But if guilty they should be punished - not allowed to bugger off with their ill gotten gains like their boss.

[MaxYakov]

I am waiting with baited breath!!!

Recommend brushing teeth and/or using a mouthwash to abate the odor.

[GentlemanJim]

Total admission of the fact that the Coup is dead.

Long live the weasle Judicial Coup.... 5 rice story of the day is it. Great the media really helping out with the Power grab.

Won't get away with it though.... its 2 decades out of date doing this!!

In most normal countries with a real judicial system, the members talking about the case in public like this would automatically have the case thrown out... Which is what needs to happen to this dumb case.

In normal countries, corrupt politicians like Thaksin would have been jailed years ago.

From reading your posts and your blind support of Thaksin, I would guess you don't come from a normal country. You must be from Zimbabwe.

Nah! Can't be Zimbabwe his standard of English and power of reasoning is not good enough!

[prvtdetdave]

Not really,

it just means where there's smoke there's fire and they will prosecute.

Bullocks

[eggers]

YES!! YES!! Now NACC back it up w/ facts...

Still doesn't get payments to farmers

Charge Nittiratt w/ negligence as well!!

[prvtdetdave]

Nothing but cheap drivvel.

[steveyinasia]

I believe there will be an Olympic ceremony that madam PM will need to attend shortly….."Honest, I will be back….."

[Publicus]

So if you can't beat them legally in an election, trump up charges and run them out of office if not the country.

She may have been a supporter of this stupid rice pledging, but I seriously doubt (with everyone looking) she had her hand in the cookie jar. As someone else said, this is just a judicial "coup".

For sure.

The expel 'em from the country purge monger posters still have not separated themselves from the former Ultraman Suthep and Co who want to throw out of Thailand the Thais they don't like or approve of.

Then after that's done and over with, purge from the country all _______ (purge mongers are invited to fill in the blank with the name of the next group after that to be purged from the country).

And then after that, to purge the ______ (fill in this blank too) and then to throw out those awful ______ (you guys know the drill by now)..

Edited February 11, 2014 by Publicus

[GentlemanJim]

Not really,

it just means where there's smoke there's fire and they will prosecute.

Bullocks

Hardly words that inspire confidence from a 'Private Detective' Or maybe with the words used it's 'Perverted Dective' oh damn or is it a Public Relations Veterinary Detective?

[HOOD Robin]

Due to the damage this disastrous scheme has caused to the country's reputation and credit worthiness there is no alternative but to pursue those responsible in the courts. As PM and Chairperson of the Rice Committee Khun Yingluck is doubly accountable even if she was merely a pawn in her brother's grand plan.

wondering why, as a farang, you call her "Khun" ?? She aint worth.....

[ratcatcher]

I believe there will be an Olympic ceremony that madam PM will need to attend shortly….."Honest, I will be back….."

Winter Olympics closing ceremonies in Sochi on Sunday Feb 23...........................?

[steveromagnino]

It will be interesting to see how creative NACC can be to find the administration guilty of any corruption when 1) almost no rice has been sold, and 2) the government has no funds to pay for for the unsold rice. Just exactly where does the corruption aspect come in? China cancels a large order because of Suthep's prolonged protests, the government has no ability to finance rice purchases because of lack of authority under interim goverance, and has offred farmers to take back their rice to sell it for themselves. What proceeds that have been received largely (70%) benefit the high and middle income class farmers. It seems what people are calling "corruption" is that the rice program failed in its objectives. How is that criminal?

The PTP commerce minister stated "China cancelled an order for 1.2 million tonnes of rice due to a corruption probe" China stated they cancelled an order for 1.2 million tones due to a corruption probe. You state it is because of Suthep.

​So with this trend of blatant lying and making up the truth I don't really need to spend any energy on your other swell little stories then.

Actually, the only people who have been saying China would buy rice are the Thai government - everyone else thinks and thought the deal never existed. Any cancellation announcement has only come from the Thai govt also - in fact at no point has there ever been an announcement of a true G2G deal to China, it has been always revealed to be deals to holding companies of unknown origin located in China (and a cynic might guess possibly belonging to the former PM or associated parties). At no point have the Chinese confirmed their orders or have we ever seen proof of any written deals that were announced as 'done deals'.

order for rice was originally supposed to have generated cash in December according to the same Minister and was part of a 3 million ton order:

They originally stated in 2013:

"This is the third contract with China this year. The first was signed by the Thai Rice Exporters Association and China's state-owned Cofco (China National Cereals, Oils and Foodstuffs Corporation) for 1 million tonnes over five years. The next contract was a G2G deal between the Foreign Trade Department and Cofco, also for 1 million tonnes over five years."

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_211113-1.html

In late December the govt claims of sales achieved were dismissed as nonsense by the rice industry

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_271213-1.html

now working backwards let's bear in mind the scheme was in free fall back in NOVEMBER when non pledged rice was already close to worthless as farmers realised they govt wasn't able to pay them (and also due to the new restrictions on amounts that could be pledged)

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_111113-1.html

Even though the govt was already claiming they had sold 150,000 tons to China (delivery within the next 3 months) and that the farmers were going to paid THIS WEEK (in mid Nov) at which time the govt did not even consider to secure budget to finance it (which they could have done pre snap election easily)

"Deputy Prime Minister and Commerce Minister Niwatthamrong Bunsongphaisan said the committee has not felt it urgent to call a new meeting.

He insists the scheme's liquidity remains strong and is sufficient to pay participating farmers this week."

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_181113-1.html

yet just a month earlier in October the scheme was supposedly going to run within a budget of only 400b baht (BEFORE the Chinese sale was even announced) and any losses around the 200b baht per year were outright rejected as 'rubbish' - so a budget of 500b must have been FAR MORE than was ever required....before the 150,000 tons of extra rice was sold to China (which has disappeared), or the 1.2m tons....or the local firesales.

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_011013-1.html

now perhaps running a program on lies and deception is acceptable in some countries, but when you fail to pay out money owed to your own people solely due to those lies while using the money and rice for something else which has yet to be disclosed (the numbers do not add up to anyone)....I would describe that as an ongoing program of deception with an intent to misrepresent and misuse govt money i.e. corruption.

If nothing else, losing 700b baht of our money (not the Shinawatra's money, OUR taxpayer money) deserves an investigation to see if there was corruption or not. Making people work for 2 years for zero output (which is what the rice farmers have effectively done now) is heart breaking. We were owed a duty of care.

Somewhere in another thread (if someone can be bothered finding it) I laid out how some of this unfolded (I was asked to do this for work and ended up finding some english links and posting some of it online here in TV).

Edited February 11, 2014 by steveromagnino

[MaxYakov]

It will be interesting to see how creative NACC can be to find the administration guilty of any corruption when 1) almost no rice has been sold, and 2) the government has no funds to pay for for the unsold rice. Just exactly where does the corruption aspect come in? China cancels a large order because of Suthep's prolonged protests, the government has no ability to finance rice purchases because of lack of authority under interim goverance, and has offred farmers to take back their rice to sell it for themselves. What proceeds that have been received largely (70%) benefit the high and middle income class farmers. It seems what people are calling "corruption" is that the rice program failed in its objectives. How is that criminal?

Maybe this from an unidentifiable, unlinkable (on this forum) news source article:

"He said the inquiry panel has grounds to believe Ms Yingluck may have learned about problems besetting

the rice scheme, but failed to act to stop them. The NACC has assigned the same panel to launch the full investigation. If the pane finds there is enough evidence, Ms Yingluck would face charges of violation

Section 157 of the Criminal Code for dereliction."

FWIW, Wiki Description of NACC (aka NCCC):

"The National Counter-Corruption Commission of Thailand (Thai: คณะกรรมการป้องกันและปราบปรามการทุจริตแห่งชาต RTGS: Khana Kammakan Kan Pong Kan Lae Prap Pram Kan Thutcharit Haeng Chat; Abry: NCCC) is responsible for the ethical conduct, financially or otherwise of elected politicians and civil servants. The commission have both powers of investigation and prosecution."

Edited February 11, 2014 by MaxYakov

[tezzainoz]

Due to the damage this disastrous scheme has caused to the country's reputation and credit worthiness there is no alternative but to pursue those responsible in the courts. As PM and Chairperson of the Rice Committee Khun Yingluck is doubly accountable even if she was merely a pawn in her brother's grand plan.

[Oldtimer61]

I guess, soon the flights to Dubai are fully booked.................and off she go's with her Bandits!!!!

[scorecard]

Not really,

it just means where there's smoke there's fire and they will prosecute.

Yet you and many others on this board continue to lambast anybody for suggesting

"where there's smoke there's fire and they will prosecute"

with respect to abhisit and sutheps murder charges.

Double standards, surely not.

??

Come on fabby, something with some meat and pertinent to the thread.

[Siripon]

So if you can't beat them legally in an election, trump up charges and run them out of office if not the country.

She may have been a supporter of this stupid rice pledging, but I seriously doubt (with everyone looking) she had her hand in the cookie jar. As someone else said, this is just a judicial "coup".

She's being charged with negligence as chairwoman of the committee, today there was a report up to 4.5 m tonnes of rice is missing from the warehouses.

[djjamie]

It will be interesting to see how creative NACC can be to find the administration guilty of any corruption when 1) almost no rice has been sold, and 2) the government has no funds to pay for for the unsold rice. Just exactly where does the corruption aspect come in? China cancels a large order because of Suthep's prolonged protests, the government has no ability to finance rice purchases because of lack of authority under interim goverance, and has offred farmers to take back their rice to sell it for themselves. What proceeds that have been received largely (70%) benefit the high and middle income class farmers. It seems what people are calling "corruption" is that the rice program failed in its objectives. How is that criminal?

The PTP commerce minister stated "China cancelled an order for 1.2 million tonnes of rice due to a corruption probe" China stated they cancelled an order for 1.2 million tones due to a corruption probe. You state it is because of Suthep.

​So with this trend of blatant lying and making up the truth I don't really need to spend any energy on your other swell little stories then.

Actually, the only people who have been saying China would buy rice are the Thai government - everyone else thinks and thought the deal never existed. Any cancellation announcement has only come from the Thai govt also - in fact at no point has there ever been an announcement of a true G2G deal to China, it has been always revealed to be deals to holding companies of unknown origin located in China (and a cynic might guess possibly belonging to the former PM or associated parties). At no point have the Chinese confirmed their orders or have we ever seen proof of any written deals that were announced as 'done deals'.

order for rice was originally supposed to have generated cash in December according to the same Minister and was part of a 3 million ton order:

They originally stated in 2013:

"This is the third contract with China this year. The first was signed by the Thai Rice Exporters Association and China's state-owned Cofco (China National Cereals, Oils and Foodstuffs Corporation) for 1 million tonnes over five years. The next contract was a G2G deal between the Foreign Trade Department and Cofco, also for 1 million tonnes over five years."

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_211113-1.html

In late December the govt claims of sales achieved were dismissed as nonsense by the rice industry

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_271213-1.html

now working backwards let's bear in mind the scheme was in free fall back in NOVEMBER when non pledged rice was already close to worthless as farmers realised they govt wasn't able to pay them (and also due to the new restrictions on amounts that could be pledged)

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_111113-1.html

Even though the govt was already claiming they had sold 150,000 tons to China (delivery within the next 3 months) and that the farmers were going to paid THIS WEEK (in mid Nov) at which time the govt did not even consider to secure budget to finance it (which they could have done pre snap election easily)

"Deputy Prime Minister and Commerce Minister Niwatthamrong Bunsongphaisan said the committee has not felt it urgent to call a new meeting.

He insists the scheme's liquidity remains strong and is sufficient to pay participating farmers this week."

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_181113-1.html

yet just a month earlier in October the scheme was supposedly going to run within a budget of only 400b baht (BEFORE the Chinese sale was even announced) and any losses around the 200b baht per year were outright rejected as 'rubbish' - so a budget of 500b must have been FAR MORE than was ever required....before the 150,000 tons of extra rice was sold to China (which has disappeared), or the 1.2m tons....or the local firesales.

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_011013-1.html

now perhaps running a program on lies and deception is acceptable in some countries, but when you fail to pay out money owed to your own people solely due to those lies while using the money and rice for something else which has yet to be disclosed (the numbers do not add up to anyone)....I would describe that as an ongoing program of deception with an intent to misrepresent and misuse govt money i.e. corruption.

If nothing else, losing 700b baht of our money (not the Shinawatra's money, OUR taxpayer money) deserves an investigation to see if there was corruption or not. Making people work for 2 years for zero output (which is what the rice farmers have effectively done now) is heart breaking. We were owed a duty of care.

Somewhere in another thread (if someone can be bothered finding it) I laid out how some of this unfolded (I was asked to do this for work and ended up finding some english links and posting some of it online here in TV).

Impressive and I appreciate the work you put into this post with links.

I am looking forward to any rebuttal that directly argues your points raised and does not include judicial coup or Suthep being corrupt or it is the DEM's fault or the NACC is a tool of the elitists or finally "But it is the__________ fault"

[Robby nz]

It should not be forgotten that the NACC said that had the amnesty bill gone through it would have wiped more than 25,000 cases of corruption they are presently investigating.

If I remember correctly they said most of these were against senior politicians and without a doubt at least some, if not many, would involve the rice pledging scheme.

It is also true that in their quest to wipe out corruption PT cut the budget of the NACC.